73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Interior & Equipment => Power Windows & Door Locks => Topic started by: SUX2BU99 on April 29, 2012, 01:50:59 pm
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My drivers power window has always worked well and it's been my passenger side that's always been slow and I have to rock it up and down to finally get it closed. Well my drivers side window has stopped working. Normally I only roll up my windows when the truck is running and there is 13.8V available to the motor. When my HEI died and I had to get my window up, I had to roll up the drivers side just on battery power. It was rolling up slowly, and slower and slower and then right near the top I heard a clunk and it just stopped. Pressing the switch up or down doesn't produce any results for noise or movement.
I've searched through the tech pages and through 6 pages of this section to try and pinpoint what the issue is before I tear the door apart. Any ideas? Motor konked out? Regulator? What could break inside the regulator that would require replacement?
My Haynes manual said to put a screw through the regulator plate, through to the gear quadrant behind, before removing the motor. Vile said the same thing in the tech page thread here:
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1950.0.html
I believe this is because of the spring that has tension on it and removing the motor without putting a screw or bolt in to hold the reguator to the quadrant will result in all kinds of ugliness. Is this all visible while working on the assembly in the door? Or do you have to remove the glass, remove the regulator and then get the whole assembly out of the truck and THEN put the screw in before taking the motor off while on the work bench?
Thanks!
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I would bet that your motor went out. Before taking anything out, check to see if you got full voltage at the motor itself. If you do then check to make sure the regulator did not come apart or break, if not probably faulty motor.
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http://73-87.com/7387garage/interior/winmotor.htm
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My motors move at about 1/100th of one mile an hour lol. Not looking forward to having to replace them. But according to what I've read around here yeah, its almost always the motor.
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Are new ones available or is it a hunting trip to the boneyard?
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Are new ones available or is it a hunting trip to the boneyard?
Yeah you can get 'em new. That's one of those parts that I wouldn't trust from the junkyard. Even if they worked fine now, how much life can they really have left? Who knows.
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To get back to this, I finally had a chance to take off my door panel and do some checking. Voltage checks at the switch turned out fine. I looked in the bottom of the door and saw two wires with leads sitting at the bottom of the door! So that seems to be my problem even though I have no idea how that would have happened. Anyway it seems that the window and regulator still have to come out in order to reconnect the wires.
My window seems to be stuck in the up position. I can move it down about an inch or so from the top but then it seems to stop from there. In order to get the window off the rail, how far down does it need to come? Should I just force it down if I need to? And it's only when you want to take the motor off that the quadrant needs to be locked with a screw to the regulator arm, right?
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The only way I have done it was to take the window regulator bolts out so you can maneuver the glass done. It is a real pain and I use duct tape on the door openings because I have sliced my arms/hands before. I do this all the time for parts trucks or power doors off of trucks.
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You should be able to hook that plug back up without removing anything but the door panel.
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The wires are on a plug? Hmmm all I saw were two wires terminated each with an uninsulated spade connector. I'll have to get my arm down there and feel around.
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Does the vent window need to come out to take out the window? I'm having a heck of a time with this. I took off the window seals but still can't seem to figure out how the glass comes out. I plugged the wires back into the motor and it worked, but the motor stopped before the window got all the way up so it seems to have "skipped" some teeth or something. But now I just hear a click from the motor so maybe it is dead now too. Ugh.
I just want to get this assembly out so I can bench repair it. My truck doesn't seem to have the usual 4 bolts holding the regulator in either. The holes are there but I only had one bolt and then one stud with a nut on it holding the regulator in. My truck I believe was a non-power window truck that a previous owner added power windows to, possibly from a 91 Sub but not 100% sure.
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Rotate the window 90 degrees where the track is closest to the latch.
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How can I rotate it though when the front vertical edge is in the vent window channel and the bottom of the glass is attached to the rail that is in the upper track? Is the window supposed to be up or down when trying to rotate it?
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Anybody? I just need to know if I have to take the time and effort to remove the vent window or not.
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http://73-87.com/7387garage/interior/winmotor.htm (http://73-87.com/7387garage/interior/winmotor.htm)
Be careful of sharp metal edges and be wary of getting your fingers pinched by the regulator arms during R&R.
(1) Lower the window a few inches; (2) unbolt the window regulator and disengage the rollers from the tracks and glass lower sash rail by referring to the above link; (3) remove the window regulator and motor assembly from the door (hold the glass up with a screwdriver stuck through a bolt hole in the door); (4) remove the rear vertical channel mounting bolts so the rear channel dangles loose inside the door; (5) rotate the glass 90° (with the lower sash rail still attached) and slide the glass upward out the top. Installation is the reverse.
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^ I didn't see your reply Rich before I went to the garage tonight and attempted again to get the glass out. I did succeed in getting the glass out! Once I got the regulator to door bolts off, i wiggled the glass around and eventually got enought movement to where the window could be rotated and lifted out.
Now my problem is getting the regulator assembly out. How the heck is this done??? I've tried all kinds of rotations and angles and it only seems to scratch the crap out of the inside of my door skin. Can the motor and regulator all be removed as one assembly?? Or do I have to take the motor off inside the door?
I'm sure that large opening in the door is JUST big enough to squeeze the regulator assembly out only when tilted just one perfect way. It's almost genius how GM figured that out, but ridiculously frustrating to us having to deal with it later on!
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...Now my problem is getting the regulator assembly out. How the heck is this done??? I've tried all kinds of rotations and angles and it only seems to scratch the crap out of the inside of my door skin. Can the motor and regulator all be removed as one assembly?? Or do I have to take the motor off inside the door?
I'm sure that large opening in the door is JUST big enough to squeeze the regulator assembly out only when tilted just one perfect way....
Leave the motor bolted to the regulator! You're right - the large opening is JUST big enough.... If you can momentarily reattach the wires to the motor and "collapse" the regulator a little, it will be easier, but the idea is to bring the assembly through the opening by stepping it through as you rotate it. It's definitely a puzzle. The more times you do it, the easier it becomes. It's kind of like stepping through the opening one leg at a time if you were inside the door trying to get out - you have to duck, twist, and step through at the same time! :(
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Once you get the motor/regulator out, you can actually check it while laying it on cardboard or another smooth surface right there at the truck. Reattach the wiring plug, lay it on the ground, and operate the switch.
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I did finally get the assembly out after jiggling it around a bit. Just have to track down another motor. I was surprised that Ebay had none. Anyway, now I have to put a bolt through the quadrant into the regulator frame to lock it in place for when I take the motor out, right? There is a hole in the quadrant that is right over top of the frame which is convenient so I'll get on that soon.
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Check this page for removing the power windows:
http://73-87.com/7387garage/interior/winmotor.htm
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I don't have a vice so I'll use the bolt method.
My motor doesn't look like that. It's a rectangular box that looks larger than that and has a round plug. I found motors and regulators on Ebay and they sure aren't expensive. Cheap as $15 for a motor and about $50 for a regulator and motor. I've seen listings for 82-87 motors and regulators. Is there a year difference I have to be aware of. My regulator looks the same as in the link above, but motor is different. It does have a Delco stamp on it though so maybe it's an older motor?
It also seems that GM used the same motor in other vehicles. Anybody know which ones? It helps in the search at the boneyards.
Found a pic. Looks like this. Listing says it's for 77-80 GM.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/77-80-GM-POWER-WINDOW-MOTOR-RIGHT-NOS-DELCO-20004478-22048337-NEW-NO-RESERVE-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqRHJCoE9!OfDVrRBPW7,-fKOg~~60_12.JPG)
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That is the early motor, they are generally stronger. I am pretty sure that fullsize cars used these same motors.
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Thanks Chris. Any other year motor and regulator from a truck or Sub/Blazer bolts right up, right? I found a 90 Sub in a local boneyard. Still has the driver side window motor in it but they wouldn't sell me it because the rest of the door was in good shape. :( Passenger side door was crunched but the window motor was gone. Would the rear window, including the tailgate, motors work?
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Tailgate motor is different. The rest are the same.
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You could try Rock Auto.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php
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Getting back to this (I know, it's been quite a while; I have zero free time lol) I bought an AC Delco 11M23 power window motor as a replacement.
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-11M23-Professional-Window-Regulator/dp/B0048J2OFS/ref=au_pf_pfg_s?ie=UTF8&Make=Chevrolet%7C47&Model=C10%7C422&Year=1984%7C1984&carId=001&n=15684181&newCar=1&s=automotive&vehicleType=automotive
Said it replaces 82-up C/K truck power windows. I know my window motor is the older style but figured the regulators are the same. I get a chance to put it in today, take off the old motor and find that this motor does not fit the regulator very well at all! Were there regulator changes too after 1982? It's the flange around the new motor that is too big. The old motor gear head seems to be stood off of the regulator by about 1/2" at each of the 3 bolt holes in order to clear the quadrant. The new motor does not have this. Ideas? Am I reduced to looking for an old style motor?
I tried loading the link to www.73-87.com for a reference but his site seems to be down. He has the same reguator but the smaller, newer style motor. I'm curious how it fits on.
This motor here is also listed as fitting 82-up and it does not have the wide flange around the motor head. Is this the actual one that I need?
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-12497971-Chevrolet-Oldsmobile-Regulator/dp/B000C9F4VY/ref=au_pf_pfg_s?ie=UTF8&Make=Chevrolet%7C47&Model=C10%7C422&Year=1982%7C1982&carId=007&n=15684181&newCar=1&s=automotive&vehicleType=automotive
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Can you show a picture of you current setup? Generally speaking the motors are NOT interchangeable..
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Say what? Not once anywhere in any of the power window threads have I ever seen mentioned anything about non-compatible power windows or old vs. new. The regulator looks very much the same as in the thread on 73-87.com (link works now) and the motor looks very much like the 'small' head one I linked to on Amazon. I guess what I need to know is if the new style motor has the same 1/2" or so stand-offs where the bolts thread through that the old motor has.
I took some pics with my phone and will upload tomorrow.
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77-81 and 82-91 regulators are different part numbers. The motors also have different part numbers.
I don't know what the physical differences are or if the entire assembly might interchange.
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Most aftermarket places ONLY sell the 82-91 style regulators and motors as a set. If yours is a 77-81 regulator and your trying to put a 82-91 on it, they won't work, and vice versa...
That is why I asked if you could post a picture of what you had. You need the same style motor that came off your regulator...
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That same style motor, 12497971, is $5 cheaper at Rock Auto than Amazon.
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Most aftermarket places ONLY sell the 82-91 style regulators and motors as a set. If yours is a 77-81 regulator and your trying to put a 82-91 on it, they won't work, and vice versa...
That is why I asked if you could post a picture of what you had. You need the same style motor that came off your regulator...
I'm choked if that's the case; I don't know why I have yet to see anything about power window differences. I hate being the guinea pig on crap like this.
Here's the pic showing the new motor, old motor and my regulator.
To my untrained eye, it looks like my regulator and the one in this pic look the same. They aren't?
(http://73-87.com/7387garage/interior/window_motor/winreg1.jpg)
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That same style motor, 12497971, is $5 cheaper at Rock Auto than Amazon.
Shipping is $12.50 on Rockauto and it's free at Amazon.
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The dark one I assume is your old one, that is the 77-81 style, the new on is the 82-91 style. Old style is square thick and boxy.
Unless I am getting to old I am pretty sure they don't cross mount. I think the mounting "Flange" is stamped differently.
Your best bet is get a 77-81 style motor. They can be rebuilt also....
Change your lookup to 1977:
http://www.amazon.com/Cardone-42-15-Remanufactured-Domestic-Window/dp/B000C46MLU/ref=au_pf_ss_3?ie=UTF8&Make=Chevrolet%7C47&Model=C10%7C422&Year=1977%7C1977&carId=001&n=15684181&s=automotive
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Thanks. I've found that I can get a rebuilt one for about $90-ish, plus a core charge. Pretty darn stiff compared to the $28 of a later one, brand new. Know of any rebuild kits I can do myself?
I would bet it has something to do with the flange where the 3 bolts are. My old motor style has has about 1/2" thick 'stand-offs' at each of those 3 bolts to clear the quadrant I think and I imagine the newer style motor does not and mount flatter against the regulator.
Oddly enough, one of the local boneyards has a 76 Buick Lesabre with power windows in it. That yard pretty much has mostly 90's cars so that was rare to see. It would likely have one of my style motors eh? Good to know before I go tearing the door apart.
Are the regulators the same for each side or are they side-dependent? I believe I can get a passenger side one from a 90 Suburban.
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I just bought a working used one from a 75 Cadillac off Ebay for $42 shipped. Here's to hoping it fits!
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It should be the same. Did you get it?
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This thread is way old I know but yes I did get the motor and only TODAY have I actually had time to get around to try and put it in. I first wanted to verify the motor works so I connected it to the switch and it didn't work. I took my window switch out and I think my switch has gone bad, as well as the old motor. Yay for me. Anyway, I took the 'new' motor and connected it directly to a battery and was met with sparks! Sounds like it was dead shorting and that only sounds to me like a dead motor. Grrrrrrr. I tried turning the gear on the regulator using a pair of pliers but it wouldn't budge. Anything I should know to verify this motor works? Guy who sold it has 100% postiive feedback and said it was working so I'm hoping I can find a way to make it work.
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You should be able to just apply 12 volts to it and it go up and swap to the opposite direction and it go down.
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That's what I figured so the sparking is indicating a stuck or dead motor and that's not cool Have you ever taken one of these apart? Anything I should know about before doing so, like if something is spring-loaded against the case and when I take it apart it all files apart making reassembly impossible (how can you tell that has happened before to me!)?
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I have seen one taken apart, but haven't done it. Several cars shared this motor though..
If you take it apart, have it over a clean area to be safe.
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I wrote the seller I bought it from and he told me that both wires are positive and the ground is the motor case. Touching each wire to + and - is like putting positive power to both sides of the motor and sparking and fried motors can result. I'm hoping that's not the case and once I wire it to a window switch I know is working good that it will work fine.
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The motor I bought works. The seller gave me some great info. Once I grounded the case to the negative battery post, I tried both wire leads on the motor and it worked great both directions. I also tested my switch once I grounded my neg lead on the multimeter to a clean metal spot on the door and found the switch has power on the right terminals when I press the button up and down. Now to just get everything reassembled.