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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: rusty but trusty on August 31, 2012, 08:08:35 pm

Title: tbi running rich
Post by: rusty but trusty on August 31, 2012, 08:08:35 pm
the truck is a 87 v1500 with a 305 but originally a 350 and i have replaced o2 and the temp sensor with 2 wires but it is still getting the bumper "sooty" any ideas
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: Townsend600 on August 31, 2012, 08:35:25 pm
mine is doing the same thing.  I tried spraying wd-40 all around up top and found no vacuum leaks, replaced the coolant temp sensor and checking timing (with ECU unplugged)  also checked all the plugs and wires.  Everything looks good but I have a slight low end miss and it's runnning fat on the bottom end.  I am seriously considering swapping over to a carb.  I don't care much for this early TBI system. 
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: DnStClr on August 31, 2012, 08:42:07 pm
 There are a bunch of possibilities. Any other symptoms? Such as-is it hesitating, or backfiring, or not enough power?
The cat. converter could be partially plugged, the injectors could be allowing too much fuel into the throttle body, spark plugs could be fouled, ignition timing could be off,  there could be a low airflow to the radiator, compression could be low, IAC motor could be faulty,...
One of the first things I like to do on my 87 is to look for fault codes from the ecm. Do you know the procedure? There are posts describing how to check for code faults. A search should bring a few of em up.
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: rusty but trusty on September 01, 2012, 10:04:33 pm
i removed the cat long ago i should have mentioned it and the computer timing is disabled maxing advance at 4 degrees the computer made it not run at all but the timing is set to 0 at idle and the power is not enough to break the tires loose ever
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: Townsend600 on September 02, 2012, 09:37:42 am
same here.  Replaced the CTS and have checked timing. Plugs are all new as well with a new dist.  I hate to start throwing parts at it but I guess I'm going to put a map sensor on it first and if that doesn't work replace the IAC.  I will prob do a compression check on all 8 first though. 
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: rusty but trusty on September 02, 2012, 04:57:27 pm
timing has been checked and compression is 175 and at most 10 psi off
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: bd on September 02, 2012, 05:55:22 pm
...I tried spraying wd-40 all around up top and found no vacuum leaks ... I have a slight low end miss and it's running fat on the bottom end.

Towsend600 - WD-40 doesn't work well for finding vacuum leaks.  Try using Berrymans B12 or something similar.  Did you check your spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor?

...the computer timing is disabled maxing advance at 4 degrees the computer made it not run at all but the timing is set to 0 at idle and the power is not enough to break the tires loose ever

rusty but trusty - Not surprising if EST has been defeated - fuel mileage is probably in the toilet, as well.  Did you set base timing to 0° with EST in bypass mode, or have you since migrated to a mechanical distributor?   ???

There are a bunch of possibilities.  Any other symptoms?  Such as-is it hesitating, or backfiring, or not enough power?
...look for fault codes from the ecm....

To both - Did you do this ^^^^^^ ?  Also, with the engine OFF and air cleaner removed, use a clean rag to wipe off the spray nozzles of both injectors.  Then cycle the key ON/OFF several times w/o cranking the motor.  Check the injector spray nozzles with your finger.  They should be dry - if not, replace the injectors.  You should measure fuel pressure, as well.

FYI - Unless the motor is having trouble controlling idle, I don't think replacing the IAC will benefit your solution(s).
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: rusty but trusty on September 04, 2012, 03:17:52 pm
when i leave the est hooked up it runs horrible never mind thats a understatment
 but it stalls at idle always and must be floored to start
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: Captkaos on September 04, 2012, 03:45:27 pm
Are the trucks still Fuel injected?  You don't need to give it any gas to get one started. 
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: rusty but trusty on September 04, 2012, 03:53:11 pm
yes it is still fuel injected but to even get a pop or bang or anything other that a hot starter the pedal had to be played with but with the est disconnected it runs decent just very low power and lots of soot on bumper
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: Captkaos on September 04, 2012, 05:10:53 pm
Did you swap out the ECM controlled Distributor?  Drivability is going to suffer if you have the same one.  How many miles on the motor?  What codes are getting thrown?  Have you checked fuel pressure?  All the throttle does on a TBI motor is add more air, it doesn't do anything with gas short of the throttle reference for the ECM and in cranking you don't need to open the throttle.
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: bd on September 04, 2012, 05:54:49 pm
Adding to the above ^^^^ post, the TBI system has a "Clear Flood" feature that forces lean fuel mixture while cranking at WOT in the event that an engine initially floods.
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: rusty but trusty on September 04, 2012, 07:10:23 pm
would it be a good idea to use a mechanical distributor?
the service engine soon light is on but sometimes if i reely get on it the light goes out for a couple of minutes. the cts is working it changes resistance with temperature.
also i looked for posts how to read fault codes and couldn't find any, any tips where to look?
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: Townsend600 on September 04, 2012, 10:36:07 pm
if you go to a mechanical dist. the ECU is going to go nuts.  Truck should be at or close to 0 degrees timing when bypassed.   
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: Captkaos on September 05, 2012, 10:26:46 am
My opinion is you need to hook everything back up correctly with the TBI system intact clear all the codes and start from base one with the EST disconnected set timing to 0 and plug it back in and read the codes.  If it stays on you have issues.

To pull the codes, put a paper clip in the A and B terminals of the ALDL connector (top right 2 slots) turn the key to the on (not run) position and count the flashes.  It will ALWAYS flash the codes 3 times and the first code is ALWAYS 12 ( flash.........  flash..flash)  Any autoparts store can pull the codes for you also.
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: Edahall on September 05, 2012, 06:23:39 pm
the truck is a 87 v1500 with a 305 but originally a 350 and i have replaced o2 and the temp sensor with 2 wires but it is still getting the bumper "sooty" any ideas

My best guess is that when they swapped from a 350 to a 305, they used the throttle body from the 350.  The problem is, 350 injectors are higher flowing than 305 injectors.  Anyways, take a careful look at your injectors and if you see any orange or black markings on it like the following picture, it's a 350 injector.  305 injectors will have green and white markings.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c278/Davephoto/inj2.jpg
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: rusty but trusty on September 06, 2012, 04:31:34 pm
my injectors dont have those color marks and i think that the fuel system wasnt changed at all when the engine was changed and when i get it back from the place replacing my flexplated i will begin to get new injectors and a new distributer
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: Edahall on September 06, 2012, 10:07:00 pm
my injectors dont have those color marks and i think that the fuel system wasnt changed at all when the engine was changed and when i get it back from the place replacing my flexplated i will begin to get new injectors and a new distributer

Then that would be the reason why it is running rich.  Make sure you buy 305 specific injectors (TJ4) with a green / white marking and a flow rate of 40 lb/hr.  The 350 injectors have a flow rate of 55 lb/hr and will cause exactly what you described when used on a 305 engine.
Title: Re: tbi running rich
Post by: rusty but trusty on September 11, 2012, 08:17:13 pm
sorry for not responding earlier but i have been having problems with the internet lately
but the  information will be used and hopefully solve the problems to all who helped thank you all so much