73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Fuel Systems and Drivability => Topic started by: Steve341 on September 07, 2012, 09:51:49 pm
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Just curious. Bought a 75 Chevy c20 camper special scottsdale with camper in back. It's got a 454 with a 4 bbl carb. What harm will the ethanol in the gas do to this truck? After googling for hours I came up with ethanol is bad for pre 80s vehicles as it eats away the seals? Will it harm the engine as well?
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Forgot to mention the previous owner said he put 1/2 cup of ATF in the gas tank once a year to keep the seals wet
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ATf once a year will wet the seals once a year. Unfortunately us carburator users will suffer from this etanol crap. Notice the pump says "UP TO 10%" Could be 1%, could be 8%. What I noticed with my 78 is that no two tanks run the same. Seems like if you don't have EFI they are punishing you. The only way to use this "UP TO 10%" E-10 junk to truly be efficient is to retune your carb after every fill up. Yeah I know, ain't happening... me either... :)
~END RANT~
The main problem E-10 causes is drying out and cracking the rubber components of the fuel system. ANY RUBBER HOSES, such as tank to hard lines, hard lines to fuel pump, etc. I haven't had any problems from actual carb seals and stuff, only the rubber hoses. All I can say is buy fuel injection hose, not just plain carb gas hose. it seems to last longer.
All of us with carbs are left out high and dry by our empirical lord.
Etahnol is junk, it has less energy potential than gasoline, so I equate E-10 with the bar tender who pours you a shot of whiskey and then puts a shot of water into the bottle for the next patron.
In short, buy EFI hoses. they last longer, but E-10 will dry and crack everything rubber it contacts. plan accordingly. Such is the current woes of the old car enthusiast.
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dang that really angers me. EVERYWHERE in alberta puts that garbage in the gas here. The only exception is Shell 91 prem. About 20 cents a liter more. Guaranteed No ethanol in their 91 prem. According to PureGas they are the only station. Should i switch to this? The price sucks but my truck would be worth it as she sure isnt pretty now but i do have plans. Deciding to sell the 95 ford and sink some money into the chevy.
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Just a quick note about ethanol. When NASCAR started running it a couple of years ago they said it would make the power but they couldn't get the fuel mileage they were getting with plain gas. That equates to you and everyone else burning more gas with ethanol to go the same distance as regular gas. Now they have changed the objective from originally using it to stretch the gas and make it cheaper. Now they say it reduces emmisions which is crap because if you burn more gas... Duh...
I won't even go into the fact that we are burning FOOD.
Ethanol is THE biggest scam ever pulled on the A
American public (and apearently Canada) in history.
God bless America and help us too!
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with the weather we had during this summer dry as heck. i foresee the ethanol coming out. for one the cash crop this year is corn since supply will be low. but demand will be higher they have to use the corn for farm animals so the price for meat will be high, and this will make gas prices rise even more. so unless they want prices to be too high for us to afford it should be coming out
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The EPA has a set quota set for ethanol production. The farm have already tried to get the EPA to reduce the quota so the farmers could use the corn for feed stock. The EPA refused. When corn prices go up all food prices go up. The EPA has the mindset that if they price ANY industry out of existence; Oh well....
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EPA=FOS FOS= Full of poo.... ya know.
I equate Ethanol in Gasoline to the old wild west movies where the bartender poured you a shot of whiskey, but when no one was looking, he poured a shot of WATER back into the bottle to make it go farther.
Plus on every single forum with newer truck I've been on, they say "total cost per mile" is better with Gas than E85. I found this out too just like them with my '08 Impala. Gasoline and Diesel are it, period. Electric cars would be great if they could recharge instantly like a gas powered car.
Diesel is better, gasoline is 2nd. everything else is BS.... so far. E-10 is crap and I feel personally offended I should have to run this garbage in my truck. well, when the rubber lines finally fail and i have to jack up my bed to get to the rubber lines on my gas tanks, I'll put teflon SS lines and never have to worry about it agian. I do have to say I'm pissed, that my fuel lines in said spot already have huge slashes in them from drying out after only 4 years, and the lines I replaced still looked good at the time being the OE lines installed at the factory.
Ethanol is a BS band-aid. You must use it, but plan on replacing your rubber lines often. I replace my rubber parts on the pressure side every 2 years, weather they look good or not.
E-10 is crap. More govt intrusion into things they know nothing about.
The worst polluting SUV today puts out LESS pollutants than the best econo-box of the 1980's.
I say leave it alone jerks.
I'm one step away from tuning the truck to where it leaves a black cloud of smoke wherever I go.
I''ll buy the spark plug to make my point
I LOVE MY TRUCK. JUST IDLING, IT CANCELS OUT 17 HYBRIDS. No telling how many I cancel out when I actually touch the gas pedal.... BWAHAHAHA! 8)
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I got this in an email from summit racing
E15?
http://static.summitracing.com/email/2012/e15_20120821.htm
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Diesel has been reformulated as well to Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD). The result has been about a 10% hit in fuel economy as well. On top of that, the reformulation ends up costing about 25 cents more per gallon to make. So basically, we're paying more to get less. That's always the way it is when govt meddles with things.
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Check-out www.pure-gas.org
I've run multiple fill-ups from my local stations and have noticed that my '91 crew runs sooo much better!! The price per gallon is more, but I found that it was about the same cents/mile cost in the end due to the increased fuel mileage.
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Al Gore even admitted on TV that ethanol is a scam. He said the only reason he endorsed it was because he was running for president and he wanted the votes of the Iowa corn farmers. The problem now is that there is too much money invested, too much money to be made and too many lobbyists pushing it to ever turn it off. :(
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Look at Alcohol dragsters, Look at what they have to do to run Alcohol. Anything that Ethanol gas contacts that is rubber, will end up dry rotting. Fuel lines and diaphragms in Carbs are suspect to ruin over time. This is a ploy by the government to push Pre 2001 vehicles out of circulation. If you want it to last, I highly recommend getting EFI methanol safe rated hose anytime you purchase hose. It cost more but will last under the conditions.
I spend a weekend helping a neighbor troubleshoot his 1987 R10 that wouldn't run. After I found out his tank selector switch was bad (I used mine) I found that both pumps ran, but not enough to push the fuel to the front. He decided to drop one tank which is the one that was not pumping and found that the hose from the pump to the fuel line had turned into a ball of rubbery gel. The opposite side sounding like it was pumping but all it was doing was pumping it through the pump and dumping back into the tank. The rubber lines from the tank to the frame mounted hardlines were cracked.
There is a push now for E15 which will make its effects 50% faster than E10, which is the link from Summit Racing. If you go to sema's site it has the info on it also.
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capt this is the first thing i check when im working on a fuel problem. my buddy was working on a 88-98 chevy they thought it needed a tune up did that still had the same problem. i asked if they checked the rubber line they looked at me funny, they where thine pump itself but when he pulled it, it was only the hose that was the problem
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When my arm was still messed up I was having major problems with the fuel system in my truck. I ended up taking it to the garage I deal with, they figured out that the lines the p/o used where junk and replaced almost all my fuel lines in the truck with a hard plastic line other then a little bit of rubber hose right at the ends. I hope this holds up. I have been using stuff to also take out the Ethanol and things seam to work better when I put that stuff in the gas.
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When I finally do have to replace the rubber hoses on top of my gas tanks, they will be replaced with teflon hoses, with SS braiding on the outside and no clamps, they will be hard fittings, and permanent.
Will be using these guys' stuff. Makes all AN stuff look like junk.
http://www.swagelok.com/ (http://www.swagelok.com/)
I got the hookup on this stuff. it's used in nuclear reactors and for fiber optics draw towers. expensive, well not so much to me as I get it at cost, but I'll only ever buy it once. lifetime! lol
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something else to consider is alcohol attracts water and we all know water and gas dont mix
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and this is why i dont get fuel when i see a tanker filling up the station
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This E10 junk may be the deciding factor to weather my next engine had EFI or not. Best I can figure, with my old school carb and the "UPTO 10%" spec, My trucks probably not running at peak effeciency unless i retune it for each tank of fuel I get. Ain't gonna happen. I want EFI. It tuns as you drive, The ultimate set it and forget it setup. I'm tired of my truck either Idling high, or idling low and having to two foot it, or it knocks sometimes, but not other times.... With the truly crap fuel we have these days, EFI is the only way to go. 3 of my cousins from different parts of the country told me they have GASOLINE available with no ethanol... I'm truly jealous. I would pay the extra, no question. I'm so jealous. Never see or heard of any place with actual GASOLINE in my area or in a 350 mile circle.
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i thought it was my tuck that was so far out of tune. cause it seams it does change idle and how it drives every time you turn around
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some of it, a little bit, is the small leaks around my throttle shafts on my 2000 mile edelbrock 1406 junk carb.
But even before that, it acted up.
People don't notice, but nowhere does it say all gas has 10% ethanol in it. It says "UP TO 10%" could be 0% could be 9% could be 4%. it makes a difference to a carb. I think this is the govts way of getting old junky trucks like mine off the road. I may end up with a later LS-Whatever in my truck. guess either way, Gubmint wins... ???
Before E10. I tuned my carb for summer and winter. twice a year, never touched timing, all I ever did was adjust the cruise jets for the hot or cold season. no no matter what I do it runs like crap. I know it's not just me cuz the guys at the local cruise ins (all the carb guys) have the same complaint as me. AFAIK EFI is the only fix. I'll either end up with a ramjet 350 or a 5.3 LS engine in mine. And I'm extremely irritated doing it because it's about double the cost of rebuilding the 78 350 I have now.
I used to get 17MPG out of my 5300lb truck shaped like a brick on the freeway at 70-73MPH with real gasoline. Nowadays I get about 14 IF...IF...IF I go 65MPH.
Ethanol is a BS band-aid to make the EPA people look good on paper.
Everyone I've talked to who owns an E85 capable vehicle, including my own '08 Impala, says most for your money, stick with gas. the E85 is cheaper but you lose too much economy and power to make it cost less overall.
IMO, personally, diesel is the way to go anyway. But I do know E-whatever, isn't it.
I also know, the OE fuel lines from the tanks on my truck looked GOOD when I changed them out after 32 years of service, I only did it because the bed was off when they were painting my truck. I know the new EFI rated fuel lines (The Best rubber available at the time) now look like you've slitted them all over with a razor knife, and one tank has an air leak in the line. I also for safety reasons, replace every piece of rubber from the fuel pump to the carb every 12 months, need it or not. And I always buy the BEST fuel hose I can possibly get. Can't go wrong spending money there.
Our old cars no matter the brand mean nothing to the Gubmint, cuz they're so few nowadays compared to newer cars (5 years old or newer) That they don't have to do anything for us. In fact I bet to the Gubmint, we are a force they think should be squashed as quickly as possible, like a dangerous bug.
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Would one of the after market TBI kits help with this problem? Are they capable of learning on the fly so to speak? I know this won't help with the fuel lines and such but I would think that it would still allow you to run the engine of your choice and not have through all the trouble of a direct injection engine.
On my bike I notice a big difference in mileage and performance from one tank to the next. It's an old style carb'd air cooled V-twin and with "good" gas I can get 50mpg at 70mph. On the not good gas it drops to the low 40mpg range.
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Any EFI would help, as they tune themselves on the fly.
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I think "up to 10 percent" is probably a lie already. Its more like 15 percent already.
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I'm extremely pissed today. Just went to alabama, and filled both tanks, but one doesn't work. The fuel valve by the tank failed. I'm 98% certain this ethanol crap ate it up. it's only been on there for 3 years. The last valve lasted from 1978 to 2009. I get the feeling I'm gonna be lifting my bed before long to put new lines in that ethanol CAN'T harm. I like Swagelock. Good stuff.
We'll I have my basic tools on my truck always, otherwise I'da been OUTA GAS with 20 gallons in one tank.... that will piss you off....lol
This band-aid garbage ethanol crap.... I hate hippies, I hate eco-people. yes, all, period. to heck with them. Like cartman says, dang dirty hippies.