73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Electrical => Topic started by: Les_Paul on December 24, 2012, 11:22:59 am
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Hey guys!
I just bought a '73 C30 with a 350 SBC V8 Manual 4 speed Muncie Transmission.
Woke up this morning and drove to Waffle House with the wife and came home with no issues. My Uncle came over to take the truck for a spin about an hour or two later, but we couldn't even get the engine to crank. Turning the key to the "On" position the truck has power and the generator light comes on inside the dash. As soon as you turn the key to ignition position, the generator light turns off and the Temp light turns on. I checked under the hood and nothing was hot. It was still slightly warm from the drive earlier this morning, but definitely not too hot. Any ideas?
(I have had the Temp light come on with no crank before...except that time was my fault because I over-cranked the engine trying to get it started. This is my first carburator engined vehicle so I'm learning how to get the right fuel mixture on a consistent basis!)
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check the terminals to the battery.. make sure their clean and tight... and make sure the ground to the engine is good...
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Check the fusible links at the starter ,does it have a clutch switch if so try by passing it
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Had a similar issue with my 87 suburban. Truck would crank and start and as soon as you turn it off it would go completely dead. No dash lights, no headlights, not even brake lights My problem ended up being corroded cables. The terminals were good and clean but the cables were green and oxidized within the jacket. The positive cable was bad over a foot away from the terminal. The negative was bad only about 3 inches back. Once I fixed the bad cables I had no more electrical problems.
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yea.. sounds like terminal issue
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Obviously waffle poisoning.
Check the actuation of the ignition rack and ignition switch.
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Obviously waffle poisoning.
That's funny ! Stupid question ! Did someone push the clutch in enough to activate the safety switch when your uncle was going to drive it ?
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Thanks guys. I managed to start it about an hour or so later and haven't had any issues since. Maybe it is a bad cable, but right now it's working for me so I'm going to leave it alone! ;)
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Tha
Thanks guys. I managed to start it about an hour or so later and haven't had any issues since. Maybe it is a bad cable, but right now it's working for me so I'm going to leave it alone! ;)
That's probably not the best move, next time it will do it in the most inconvenient place. I'm thinking something like the bar, and you will have to call the wife to come get you........... Not good..... :-)
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Ditto on the above. I would try and find the cause.
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I would bypass all the fusible links replace the battery cables with new ones if they are very old and replace the soleniod if the starter seems to crank good. Ive had lots of electrical and starter issues so I dont like them... On my 84 c20 I recently fixed a starting issue. The key switch would have power to the ignition but none to the starter so I guess it wore out and im not sure how to change one of them so I just ran a push button to activate the starter and use the key to turn on the ignition.
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I would bypass all the fusible links....
This is a dangerous proposition! Fusible links are installed for a reason... they keep trucks from burning to the ground! If there's a problem with a fusible link, it should be replaced with the appropriate service part - never bypassed. When a fusible link melts, there's a reason for it and the link is doing its job - it's preventing the truck from burning to the ground. The correct solution is to discover why the link melted, address the cause, and then replace the link with ~6" of fusible wire that's appropriately matched to the wire gauge of the harness it protects... http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,11972.msg45217.html#msg45217 (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,11972.msg45217.html#msg45217)
If you've never seen an occupied vehicle engulfed in flames, it is NOT a pretty sight! Neither is a shop that's been consumed by electrical caused fire. Never recommend to anyone, defeating fusible protection!
...On my 84 c20 I recently fixed a starting issue. The key switch would have power to the ignition but none to the starter so I guess it wore out and im not sure how to change one....
Assuming you verified that the neutral (clutch) safety switch is not your problem, to replace the ignition switch in your 84, you need to lower the steering column from the dash support (2 nuts) and R&R the switch from the upper side of the column (2 screws). Hopefully, the 'push button' didn't bypass the neutral safety switch; here's why... http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,22373.msg184821.html#msg184821 (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,22373.msg184821.html#msg184821)
If you do many of your own repairs, a detailed repair manual is a good tool to have around. You can also refer to Technical Pages of the forum for a trove of useful information... http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/board,5.0.html (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/board,5.0.html) including wiring diagrams... http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,11766.msg87585.html#msg87585 (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,11766.msg87585.html#msg87585)
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I would bypass all the fusible links....
This is a dangerous proposition! Fusible links are installed for a reason... they keep trucks from burning to the ground! If there's a problem with a fusible link, it should be replaced with the appropriate service part - never bypassed. When a fusible link melts, there's a reason for it and the link is doing its job - it's preventing the truck from burning to the ground. The correct solution is to discover why the link melted, address the cause, and then replace the link with ~6" of fusible wire that's appropriately matched to the wire gauge of the harness it protects... http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,11972.msg45217.html#msg45217 (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,11972.msg45217.html#msg45217)
If you've never seen an occupied vehicle engulfed in flames, it is NOT a pretty sight! Neither is a shop that's been consumed by electrical caused fire. Never recommend to anyone, defeating fusible protection!
...On my 84 c20 I recently fixed a starting issue. The key switch would have power to the ignition but none to the starter so I guess it wore out and im not sure how to change one....
Assuming you verified that the neutral (clutch) safety switch is not your problem, to replace the ignition switch in your 84, you need to lower the steering column from the dash support (2 nuts) and R&R the switch from the upper side of the column (2 screws). Hopefully, the 'push button' didn't bypass the neutral safety switch; here's why... http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,22373.msg184821.html#msg184821 (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,22373.msg184821.html#msg184821)
If you do many of your own repairs, a detailed repair manual is a good tool to have around. You can also refer to Technical Pages of the forum for a trove of useful information... http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/board,5.0.html (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/board,5.0.html) including wiring diagrams... http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,11766.msg87585.html#msg87585 (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,11766.msg87585.html#msg87585)
I see your point! Ill think before suggesting somethin in the future! :-X
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I read the thread about bypassing the Neutral safety switch and now I cant express how dumb I really am and about the fusible links.. Im just gonna read and not post anythin in the future because I am a liability....
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I read the thread about bypassing the Neutral safety switch and now I cant express how dumb I really am and about the fusible links.. Im just gonna read and not post anythin in the future because I am a liability....
Don't think like that. Everybody's input is always welcomed.
Just got to remember that we don't always know the competence of other posters or the complete circumstances of the issue they are having. Also others from web searches might be reading the threads so sometimes we just need to word our posts as if everyone was non mechanically inclined. Don't take any offense to being corrected when advise is incorrect. I guarantee you no insult was intended.
I see that you are new here. Welcome to the board.
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I read the thread about bypassing the Neutral safety switch and now I cant express how dumb I really am and about the fusible links.. Im just gonna read and not post anythin in the future because I am a liability....
Don't think like that. Everybody's input is always welcomed.
Just got to remember that we don't always know the competence of other posters or the complete circumstances of the issue they are having. Also others from web searches might be reading the threads so sometimes we just need to word our posts as if everyone was non mechanically inclined. Don't take any offense to being corrected when advise is incorrect. I guarantee you no insult was intended.
I see that you are new here. Welcome to the board.
X2
Rob, everyone on here has their own unique experience and approach to repairs. I can assure you, everyone of us has felt 'silly' after a post at one time or another. So, don't be bashful about joining in and sharing your views and experience. We learn from one another. :)
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I read the thread about bypassing the Neutral safety switch and now I cant express how dumb I really am and about the fusible links.. Im just gonna read and not post anythin in the future because I am a liability....
Don't think like that. Everybody's input is always welcomed.
Just got to remember that we don't always know the competence of other posters or the complete circumstances of the issue they are having. Also others from web searches might be reading the threads so sometimes we just need to word our posts as if everyone was non mechanically inclined. Don't take any offense to being corrected when advise is incorrect. I guarantee you no insult was intended.
I see that you are new here. Welcome to the board.
X3: as mentioned do not take it personally, also as mentioned we like to think as everyone as family here, so we are here to teach each other.
If you could not learn anymore, and new everything, what would be the fun of being on here ?
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Ditto on the above. We all make mistakes, we all learn from them. Everyone is welcomed here.
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Thanks for all the input fellas. I had the same thing happen to me again (twice in the same day!) and discovered I had a faulty battery. All it took was a jump, and I was up and running. So I took a quick trip to the store and replaced the battery and haven't had a single issue since.
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Glad you got it resolved.
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Well I jinxed myself lol. Literally the next time I drove after writing that post the engine would turn over. Fortunately someone was close by with jumper cables, and she started like a dream. So I took it to O'Reilly's this morning to have the alternator checked (maybe the alternator wasn't recharging the battery), but it came back perfect. My next guess is it has something to do with the starter? It's just odd that it's so intermittent...
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My next guess is it has something to do with the starter? It's just odd that it's so intermittent...
You might be onto something. Have you crawled under your truck to check the cable from the battery to the starter to see if it's tight ? I would disconnect the cable at the battery before messing around down there in case it is loose it does not spark and short something out or blow your fuse able links.
Also check to make sure the cable is still tight in the " eye " crimp fitting that is attached to the pole of the starter, and that the pole that the cable attaches to is not loose on the starter itself.
1 more thought, you have checked to make sure your positive and negative cables at the battery are tight and secure inside the clamps for the battery post ?
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I now have the same issue. Last night while adjusting the valves I left my jumper wire on the starter loose and it was grounded, so when I turned the ignition switch pop and nothing but when I jump it to the batt it turned over. Then it would start with no problem. I know its the fuse links at this point, because I tested for continuity while it wouldn't stay and after. Weird... Yes! try jumping the starter post next time it won't start, then after it turns over remove your jumper abs turn the key. See it that helps:-)
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I'll bet someone lunch that if you replace the battery cables from the battery to the starter, and from the battery to the ground, you will solve this problem.
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I'll start checking these things out...now it's just a matter of getting myself underneath the beast ;)
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My next guess is it has something to do with the starter? It's just odd that it's so intermittent...
You might be onto something. Have you crawled under your truck to check the cable from the battery to the starter to see if it's tight ? I would disconnect the cable at the battery before messing around down there in case it is loose it does not spark and short something out or blow your fuse able links.
Also check to make sure the cable is still tight in the " eye " crimp fitting that is attached to the pole of the starter, and that the pole that the cable attaches to is not loose on the starter itself.
1 more thought, you have checked to make sure your positive and negative cables at the battery are tight and secure inside the clamps for the battery post ?
I had a chance to get underneath it today and wouldn't you know it, the cable was not tight on the starter. I tightened up the nut about as tight as I could without trying to break it off. Maybe that was my only problem...I suppose time will tell. (And I disconnected the battery before messing around with it :) )
I'll bet someone lunch that if you replace the battery cables from the battery to the starter, and from the battery to the ground, you will solve this problem.
You are probably correct on this one, but I'd prefer not having to mess with that or spend the $20 bucks on it if I can help it!
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Ok...had it happen to me twice more today. I have power everywhere but can't get the starter to even crank. As soon as I hook up jumper cables it fires right up...Surely it's not the wires though since jumping wouln't make the connections any better, right?
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Ok...had it happen to me twice more today. I have power everywhere but can't get the starter to even crank. As soon as I hook up jumper cables it fires right up...Surely it's not the wires though since jumping wouln't make the connections any better, right?
When it won't start, do you get out and try to turn the cables on top of the battery or move the cable around and try to restart ?
I do not believe it is the cables, but it could be. By doing what I said, and if you can get it started, I then would replace cables and battery post clamps.
I have seen the cable to clamps get a short in them before, you play with them and the vehicle will start.
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.Surely it's not the wires though since jumping wouln't make the connections any better, right?
If the cables are corroded(green) internally then they are not going to efficiently carry the amperage required to engage the starter, when you hook up the second battery through jumper cables all you are doing is increasing the amperage and that extra amperage is enough to push through the corrosion.
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If the cables are corroded(green) internally then they are not going to efficiently carry the amperage required to engage the starter, when you hook up the second battery through jumper cables all you are doing is increasing the amperage and that extra amperage is enough to push through the corrosion.
I recently had to put a new ring on the end of the negative cable because my old one was cracked. When I spliced the wire, the internal copper strands looked ok, but I'm not an expert so maybe a little bit of green is doing more damage than I thought..
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I think I'd crawl under the truck to see if the starter terminal came loose again. If it's still tight, I'd start thinking about what Vile said-ignition switch rack.
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Obviously waffle poisoning.
Check the actuation of the ignition rack and ignition switch.
How wouldI go about doing that?
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If it needs replaced, I've never done it, (don't want to either!) but I think the steering column has to come apart. It's a detailed job. Here's a link to Autozone to show you what the ingition rack and sector gear looks like .
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Miscellaneous-Repair-Parts/Ignition-Switch-Rack-Kit/_/N-25t0
There should be a column rebuild in the technical section of this website.
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Here's the steering column teardown
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,12525.0.html
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Not for nothing ,LES but do you own a digital multimeter ? If not borrow one and when you have these no start issues have someone help you get some voltage readings at the starter and solenoid then you can trouble shoot from there.
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Checking the actuation just means verifying you are getting a good mechanical actuation of the ignition switch. Don't go tearing down your steering column if it's not starting. Start with the basics.
Get a test light connected to ground and go the the S terminal on the the starter. See if it lights up while the key is in the crank position.
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Whoop. There I go- gettin ahead of myself. Sorry everybody.
By all means, Les, follow the advice of these guys and troubleshoot from the beginning.
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Took a trip to Autozone this afternoon and got some help from them up there. They tested the starter, battery, and alternator and they all came back good. Fortunately I had the issue while I was there and they "tested" the solenoid by laying a screwdriver over it while I turned the key to ignition. It didnt respond at all, so we put on a new one (without having to buy it first) and it started right up. Time will tell if that was the issue, but I'm encouraged again. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks for the help guys!
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You mean he solenoid on the starter correct ? Just to make sure.
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You mean he solenoid on the starter correct ? Just to make sure.
Actually, no. I had an extra solenoid under the hood on my passenger wheel well that used to be part of a wiring scheme for a switch that is no longer connected. So in essence, I replaced a solenoid that doesn't do anything. It was just luck that the truck fired right up. Not 30 minutes later it was giving me the same problem, but I finally had someone with me when it was happening, and we figured it out. He tapped on the starter while I turned the key to the ignition position, and the engine started turning. Turns out my starter had a dead spot. So whenever I landed on that dead spot, I needed a jump to provide enough strength to get past it.
Long story short, I now have a completely refurbished starter (and solenoid that was attached to the starter itself). I'm keeping my fingers crossed for continued success with this one ;)