73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Brakes, Frame, Steering & Suspension => Topic started by: frotosride on January 26, 2013, 10:52:49 pm
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Ok so you must know that by the time I decided to post this i have gotten tired of dealing with the issue. Just had a snow storm and it reminded me how dangerouse this issue really is. so here goes.
1987 v10. corporate 10 bolts front and rear, stock steering system with the exception of new tie rods, drag link, spindel bearings and seals and single factory rated dampner. I have completely rebuilt the knuckels and everything that attaches to them including new u-joints on the axels. Now before someone mentions me rechecking my work(which i have done several times) I will put out that I started this rebuild to hopefully get rid of this very same issue. I took the truck to an alignment shop and got everything set to the recommended factory specs. Tire size is currently 235/75r15. I originally thought that since the alignment was done maybe it was radial pull so I rotated the tires to see if it changed anything and nothing changed. It doesn't matter how fast i go or slow it pulls no matter what. The only time it doesn't seem to pull as bad is when in 4-wheel drive but it still pulls. The truck has never been wrecked or offroaded hard at all. I have one potential fix in progesss which I will test tomorrow. Up until about an hour ago I still had the auto locking factory hubs (hate them). I knoticed that when turning it seemed as though they were still locked even though I know I drove atleast a mile in reverse to hopefully unlock them. So I just put in warren manual hubs and I will post any changes probably monday because i got duty tomorrow
Anyone have any other suggestions just incase this doesn't fix the issue? Maybe the actual steering box? Thanks in advance...
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Hope the Warn locking hubs work.
If the locking hubs don't do the trick, the alignment may still be suspect. Did you jack up the right front to see if maybe there is a brake pad dragging due to a cocked piston in the brake caliper?
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Might have caliper sticking also, will make pull.
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Sounds like your on the right track with the auto hubs, really have never been a fan of those for the reasons you stated they have always been a little "finicky". I suspect your problem is solved.
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Well unfortunately the manual hubs didn't help...but I'm not taking them back for any reason. I just rotated the tired about a week ago and I checked the brakes then with no dragging issues. I gues the best thing about it is I can't take my attention off the road or the person to my left will be having a bad day. I also like the way the manual hubs look. Can't wait to try them out granted I still have an open diff but that will be on the forgivness plan too.
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I got the truck up right now because the ebrake stopped working and it turns out that my c-clip holdong the pushrod for the ebrake came of the brake pad. going to fix that now and I wil take measurements. Not sure what dog tracking is but I wil check to see if the whells turn when I statrt the truck.
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So I think that i found part of the problem. I finaly got a chance to measure the front end and the right tire was toed out 1" farther than the left. I measured the right from them from the frame to get 16" driverside and 17" passanger side. I am still going to check to see if tha axels had shifted just to make sure. I also found another issue and it seems like my cotter pins were never put back in which led to the driverside uper ball joint nuckle nut completely loose. Thats all fixed now but I never got a chance to to test drive it afterward. It amazes me at the lack of quality people to repair your vehichle and reminds me of the reason I do everything my self. The alignment was the first time I ever paid anyone to do something on old blue and it will likely be the last.
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measure from the shackle bolt to axle tube,see if they measure the same from side to side.maybe the tire was hit hard or ran into something and shift the axle tube on the spring,not likely with a center pin ,but with enough impact at sometime, anything is possible.
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measure from the shackle bolt to axle tube,see if they measure the same from side to side.maybe the tire was hit hard or ran into something and shift the axle tube on the spring,not likely with a center pin ,but with enough impact at sometime, anything is possible.
I should get a chance to do that tomorrow and I'm also going to measure from the frame to each tire to check for lateral movement ontop of thrust. thanks
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might be that its the brake line going from the frame to the caliper cause my old dually pulled like a demon to the one side so if its not the axles moved might want to try that
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might be that its the brake line going from the frame to the caliper cause my old dually pulled like a demon to the one side so if its not the axles moved might want to try that
I had the truck up yesterday and I didn't think to start it and try to spin them. I haven't driven it yet because on the weekends we normally take the jeep since I have 4 kids.
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yeah the problem i was told was that with the age the brake line actually collapses on the inside so its harder for the pressure to be released causeing the brakes to stick on that side
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yeah the problem i was told was that with the age the brake line actually collapses on the inside so its harder for the pressure to be released causeing the brakes to stick on that side
Very unusual but i've seen crazier stuff on old trucks. I'm going to check that out as soon as I get a chance. Anyone know what my toe should be. I've heard it should be silghtly out but I'm curiouse as to what everyone here runs on their4x4's
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Your toe angle is 0°
Make sure you have no brake drag and then get an alignment from a reputable shop.
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Your toe angle is 0°
then get an alignment from a reputable shop.
I thought the last one was reputable but I guess I was wrong.
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Factory calls for 0 but I like a slight, about 1/8" in. toe-in. Checking this is really easy at home! Take something like an extendable rod of some sort (I have an 8' aluminum grade-rod that I use), or even a tape measure will work if you are methodical in how you use the tape. Check the width between the tires at the front (highest up that you can go considering the frame and body work) and measure to a repeatable spot on the tire (take a molded-in feature on the largest part of the buldge). Now move to the back side of the tire and measure to the same features. You should be the same front to back or just slightly wider at the back of the tires.
Since we have a live axle there is no worry about caster or camber (it's built into the axle) and toe is completely divorced from the steering arm. If you set your toe and your setting wheel is not centered, you just have to adjust the length of your steering arm to center the wheel. *Be aware that there is a center point in your steering box and when your steering wheel is centered it is important that the box is also centered.
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incorrect toe wont cause a pull... the steering wheel will be off to one side or the other while driving straight but no pull. if your brakes check out(not sticking), my guess would be like what bd said and your thrust angle is out. sometimes if the leafs fail to hold the axle in place, like if the locator pins brake, your axle will slide forward on one side and causes your truck to dog track.
just my 2 pennies
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No offense guys but I'm reading a lot of bad info here...
Measuring off of the tire is not a good way to get an alignment and I'm not quite sure why you would want an 1/8" of toe in? Your method is fine to drive down to the alignment shop after doing repairs but surely not good enough to constitute an alignment.
I'm not sure what having a live axle has to do with caster/camber. Live axle simply means it transmits powerflow. Dead axle means no powerflow. It has nothing to do with caster/camber. Caster/Camber is adjustable with eccentric balljoints. What do you mean by toe is completely divorced from the steering arm? Your toe out on turns comes directly from the steering arm geometry. The steering arm is not adjustable on these trucks. You will have an adjustable drag link for centering the steering wheel which will not effect total toe.
Incorrect toe is the fastest way to ruin your tires. Incorrect toe will absolutely cause a pull. I'm not sure where you are getting your info on this...
The thrust angle is not adjustable on these trucks so if it is incorrect it will cause dog tracking which really has no adverse effects aside from aesthetics. The vehicle will appear to roll crooked. Incorrect Thrust angle typically means frame or suspension/axle damage.
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just relaying what i was taught in first year curriculum, they could have taught me wrong i guess...
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Very basic generic stuff right here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoYnVcH43C0
Are you in school for Automotive?
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Thanks Vile...You saved me allot of typing! The look on my face as I was reading through the posts had to be priceless.
To add, what ej was trying to say when he used the word "live", I think he was meaning "solid"...as in not independent, not adjustable.
To say "there is no worry" about caster & camber" I believe is a mistake. The truck still needs to have the proper (within reason) specs to have the vehicle drive properly & not wear tires. Just because it was built correctly in '70 something doesn't mean it's still in that spot today. The fastest ways to screw up the caster is to start changing springs, adding blocks :o & things that don't belong as an engineered kit. One thing that is bad when lifting a truck very much is the need to rotate the pinion angle to keep the front U-joint alive, thus "giving away" some of the positive caster that you need to keep the vehicle going straight...just what you need, a jolting & darting 4000lb. clunk on balloon tires!
I've been involved on the "consulting" side of Two trucks on fixing this with good results & is really what should be done.
The same goes with camber, a bad day of wheelin' or the fact that these parts of trucks often get swapped from one to another for "better ratio or stronger" components, the likelyhood of having one bent from a wreck is there if if your truck hasn't been wrecked...allot can happen in 30-40 years to a truck. If only they could talk! Good Luck, Lorne
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yes i am
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Where are you going?
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viu on vancouver island, they have a really good program
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Amen to bent swapped in axles ,just realized my Dana 60 is bent ,passenger side wheel base is 1 1/4 more narrower than driver side so that kinda stuff does happen.
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Sorry Vile...a "Live Axle" is synonymous with solid axle. It isn't just about powerflow. A live axle is a driven solid axle. And yes...I meant drag-link not steering arm. I guess I was assuming that we weren't talking about axle swaps and the like. I have adjusted my toe on my vehicles by measuring between the tires all my life and my dad and my uncle all their lives. Never had a problem! You do have to be methodical and choose your measuring points carefully. How does a shop do it?...oh...on the older systems they didn't use hub mounted alignment...they used pads under the tire.
I'm not sure what having a live axle has to do with caster/camber. Live axle simply means it transmits powerflow. Dead axle means no powerflow.
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I'm about to buy a 4' lift.. springs all the way around (never liked blocks), extended brake lines, t-case drop, front sway bar drop and disconnect and I'm not sure what all else came with it but I want to get this fixed before I make the problem worse with a lift. I haven't gotten time to take it t a good alignment shop yet thanks to the amazing hours given to me the the USN...24/7.... but at least I loke what I do. I'm planning on a rough country lift all brand new. Plus the swatbar disconnect/ drop from ORD.
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Sorry Vile...a "Live Axle" is synonymous with solid axle. It isn't just about powerflow. A live axle is a driven solid axle. And yes...I meant drag-link not steering arm. I guess I was assuming that we weren't talking about axle swaps and the like. I have adjusted my toe on my vehicles by measuring between the tires all my life and my dad and my uncle all their lives. Never had a problem! You do have to be methodical and choose your measuring points carefully. How does a shop do it?...oh...on the older systems they didn't use hub mounted alignment...they used pads under the tire.
I'm not sure what having a live axle has to do with caster/camber. Live axle simply means it transmits powerflow. Dead axle means no powerflow.
Well you certainly are entitled to your own beliefs...
Old alignment measurements were take with a camber caster spirit gauge, turn plates, a tire scriber ,a toe gauge & alignment gauge.
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viu on vancouver island, they have a really good program
That's great! Good for you
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quote author=frotosride link=topic=25415.msg212789#msg212789 date=1360617358]
I'm about to buy a 4' lift..
4-feet is an amazing amount of lift, I hope you mean 4-inch...
springs all the way around (never liked blocks), extended brake lines, t-case drop, front sway bar drop and disconnect and I'm not sure what all else came with it but I want to get this fixed before I make the problem worse with a lift.
Springs are the way to go. If you are going 4-inches, then extended brake lines would help (especially with axle drop), the sway bar drop should not be necessary and the t-case drop can be helpful but also shouldn't be necessary. However, you may want to get the drop pitman arm and raised steering arm, as long as it is a 4-inch lift (or even 6-inch).
I haven't gotten time to take it t a good alignment shop yet thanks to the amazing hours given to me the the USN...24/7.... but at least I loke what I do.
Thank you for your service to our country. I really do mean that.
I'm planning on a rough country lift all brand new. Plus the swatbar disconnect/ drop from ORD.
It is my belief that most all of the aftermarket lift kits anymore are pretty well engineered. The companies have had 40 years to work on them... As for the disconnect, if you do have a 4-inch lift, then that may not be necessary unless you are doing some pretty serious off-roading.
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Yeah, sometimes that stupid shift button moves on me...4ft would be way over the hill here because of stupid laws in VA. extended brake lines are a must as you mentioned not just for the lift and articulation but also because I still have the Factory rubber ones from '87. I know that I don't absolutely need the sway bar disconnect but I'm not just getting it for that purpose. it is also a slight drop to help retain it's geometry and function. Being able to completely disconnect it and pin it out of the way is just an added bonus for me. I have yet to do any serious off roading or anything remotely close to that but I have plans to change that. At least some trail riding. The drop pitman arm comes in the kit but I'm going to do cross over if I can afford the machine work on my knuckels.
I feel the same way about most of the suspension companies out there. As long as you get a complete system then you are good to go but I know there are better quality ones out there. If I start breaking stuff then that just means I get to buy more stuff and that means upgrades!!! ;D I wish I had a need for some Rockwells....I mean not on a daily driver at least.
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It sounds like you have things pretty well planned out. Be sure to post photos of the build, I (and I know others) like to see photos of work in progress. As for the Rockwells, it sounds as though you are looking for an excuse... My personal likes are the portal axles ala Unimog...
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Yes and an excuse for links and rockwells is so far out of reach I can only laugh at it. If I can convince the wife that it's for safety then it's game on!!
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Today I lifted the truck up again and thanks to my wife and the best valentines day present to date(floor jack with 19 3/4" lift 3ton jack stands and creeper) it went easier than before. I planned on doing a few things but mostly trying to figure out this problem with the pulling to the right. I also decided the change my 180 thermo to 195 factory thermo bc waiting for warm up sucks.... After I got the new thermo in I filled the radiator up put the cap on and started the truck that's when I noticed something that I have gotten so used to it didn't dawn on me until now. My chest was against the steering wheel and when the truck started the wheel jerked to the right. Now keep in mind that the truck frame is on stands and the axle is on separate stands.
Does this mean that my steering box is worn out and allowing flow when it shouldn't? I have also noticed that it is easier to turn the wheel to the right vice the left.. any new thoughts on this?