73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: nlauffer on May 28, 2013, 10:15:07 pm
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I am looking for a set of headers. I want ceramic coated and maybe mid length or shorty. While looking through summit racing I switched to a Chevelle application. This allowed more options. I noticed a few brands I'm curious about.
Flowtech
Herman Tork step
Patriot Clipster
These are what I am interested in buying. What ideas or opinions do you have about these headers.
Side note: I am not after high horsepower just torque.
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I have the Hedman ceramic shorties. They fit great and have the ball and socket collector for a good seal and adjustment.
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I got Headman full length headers with the ball and socket. I picked the set I did because they have the 3/8-inch head flange, were ceramic coated, and had the ball and socket collector flange. I was tired of replacing the collector gaskets. No more.
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I am definitely wanting ball and socket. The headers I was looking at were all 5/16 flange and some 1/4 flange. Very few were 3/8. Has this changed, because a few years ago I swear there were more 3/8 flanges in my price range.
Which Hedman shorties did you get. If you don't mind me asking what was the price?
The Patriot Clipster intrigued me the most. The price was good, ceramic coated, 5/16 flange, 18 ga ( I think), don't remember if it was ball and socket. I don't remember ever hearing anything about this brand before.
Hedman have been around forever and make inexpensive to full on race headers. Although, Summit brand was better on price and on a couple sets had thicker metal.
The Tork Step I have heard of before, but I don't remember where. It claims to make more torque than high end horsepower, which is exactly what I want. They were priced decent. But I'm not sure how a shorty style header can make more torque. I wonder if it is purely a marketing deal.
Also, not as important as my other preferences, but somewhat important is the fact that I don't want a set of headers that drop below the frame and can be seen when looking at the truck. This is why I thought 3/4 length or shorty.
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Been using Hedman for a lot of years on different type vehicles, and all have had a perfect fit and tucked up not hanging down on the road.
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If you are after torque you really need to go full length, 1 5/8" primaries.
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Thats the deal. Full length 1 5/8 primaries are what I have heard and read is the torque buildier. I am curious why they say a shorty will build torque. They claim it is due to design of primaries. I am going to call them and find out, but it has been a busy morning. Budget time again.
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So I checked with Hedman. The Tork step for pickups are full length. They start with 1 1/2 primaries and weld into 1 5/8 primaries. They also look to have ball and socket. These just moved up the list, but Hedman's website has them for over $600 coated.
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Oh yeah, here is the info from Hedman's website.
These HTC coated, standard-duty headers use TORK-STEP stepped tube technology to provide performance superior to any standard tube header design.
Originally designed for racing applications, Hedman is the first manufacturer to mass produce this technology for the street.
All Hedman street Hedders are MADE IN THE USA, and are backed by a lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects! Our HTC coating is covered for a full 5 years.
IMPORTANT!: Installing coated headers on an engine during the break-in period will cause discoloration. We recommend the use of factory manifolds, or an old set of headers, during the engine break-in period.
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Shorty might build more torque than manifolds, but not full length headers.
What is your engine specs? Are you budgeting for a new exhaust system too? Your current system will need to be altered to hook up to the headers. Just making sure you are thinking of everything.
I personally have been looking at Hedman Elite's. 1 5/8 primaries, ball and socket, 3/8 flange, thermal coated, 14-gauge tubing, about $340 at summit. just my .02
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why would you ever need 14 ga tubing on headers??
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Stronger and quieter..
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That's quieter in terms of "header slap", where the exhaust gases hit the tubes where they bend. Sounds like an exhaust leak or a noisy lifter.
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I just dropped my block off at the machine shop. It will end up .040 over with stock style dish pistons, pro comp 64cc heads with 190cc intake runners, lunati 268 (I think ) cam, dual plane manifold, and a 625 road demon. I thought about just using stock manifolds, really. I am changing the exhaust on my pickup. It has dual 2.25" through glasspacks to the rear bumper. I want 2.5" exit in front of rear wheels or single side exit in front of passenger wheel with flowmaster 40 series. I already have the mufflers.
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Wouldn't a single 3" or 3.5" be best for torque? If you go duals you oughta run an X or an H pipe. Someone said on here the H is the best for torque, but I always thought the X was better for torque?
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One of my ideas was to run a y pipe into single 3" exiting in front of passenger rear wheel with rectangular tips. This idea has lead to my search for better or easier. Because if I use 3". Am I wasting money because stock manifolds are much smaller so shouldn't I use headers or hi po Camarillo manifolds.
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Even with stock manifolds, a 3" exhaust will give you better power than say a 2.25 or 2.5. Then when you get headers down the road, it'll give you even more power and you wont have to worry about doing the exhaust again to get the exhaust flow you want with the headers.
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So, are there any other thoughts on manifold vs header. I know the generic thoughts, but I am curious to here from some more of the "pro" manifold people.
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I would never go with a Hedman ball and socket header again! I have the Elite coated ball and socket headers on my '77 K20 and the ball and socket flange has been nothing but a complete pain since day one!!! The design of the Hedman ball and socket flange is too weak, and the 3 point mounting causes un-even bolt torque. Still the bolted joint is a soft joint and the nuts are constantly coming loose. I started off with the regular hardware and within a month the nuts came loose, it started leaking, and my exhaust pipes started moving around. I double nuted them and within a month the same thing happened. Then I had the nuts tack welded to prevent them from coming loose and guess what...it got loose again!!! The constand heat cycling of the connection causes the bolts to stretch and the socket flange started opening-up and pulling farther over the ball. I went to double nut and high-temp loc-tite and they still loosened up. An OEM ball and socket with only 2 bolts and springs under the bolt head would work much better.
I went this route on the suggestion of a friend and that you don't have to mess with collector gaskets! But...I didn't think about the fact that I have vehicles with regular collectors and gaskets and I don't have a problem with them in the first place! I really wish I would have just got the standard collector flanges. The bolted design there is much better and much less prone to the fasteners loosening.
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I would never go with a Hedman ball and socket header again! I have the Elite coated ball and socket headers on my '77 K20 and the ball and socket flange has been nothing but a complete pain since day one!!! The design of the Hedman ball and socket flange is too weak, and the 3 point mounting causes un-even bolt torque. Still the bolted joint is a soft joint and the nuts are constantly coming loose. I started off with the regular hardware and within a month the nuts came loose, it started leaking, and my exhaust pipes started moving around. I double nuted them and within a month the same thing happened. Then I had the nuts tack welded to prevent them from coming loose and guess what...it got loose again!!! The constand heat cycling of the connection causes the bolts to stretch and the socket flange started opening-up and pulling farther over the ball. I went to double nut and high-temp loc-tite and they still loosened up. An OEM ball and socket with only 2 bolts and springs under the bolt head would work much better.
I went this route on the suggestion of a friend and that you don't have to mess with collector gaskets! But...I didn't think about the fact that I have vehicles with regular collectors and gaskets and I don't have a problem with them in the first place! I really wish I would have just got the standard collector flanges. The bolted design there is much better and much less prone to the fasteners loosening.
Wow. Thanks for that. This very topic came up last night, so it's really good to know that.
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I like this forum for times like this. So many people available and willing to discuss ideas. No right or wrong answers, just alot of trial and error.
First off, sorry for some of my spelling (Camarillo). Some of this has been posted from my Iphone and I am still getting used to the auto fill.
The above post is why I have been so reluctant to buy headers in the past. For one, I just haven't had a great need to go to headers. Second, all I ever hear is that flange thickness is super important and could cause leaks, tubing gauge is important to reduce unwanted sounds, and collector gaskets blow out all the time. I don't see why anyone would ever buy headers. Oh yeah, I didn't even mention what the black ones will look like in 6 months or if you use the ceramic during break in.
But, do people really go around talking about not having problems with things. Not usually. So, I have to imagine that there are as many or more people that have great luck with headers. Headers have been around for years and not all manufacturers have gone out of business. Also, look at the newer vehicles. The stock manifolds are looking more like headers every time.
Yes there are definitely pros to headers, but do I really need them. I still don't know. And if I can't convince myself, then I guess I will stick with manifolds.
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I have had no problems whatsoever with my Hooker headers in the three years since I bought the truck with them on it. When the engine was changed out, they put new flange gaskets on, and I have them check the torque on the bolts into the head every oil change. That's it.
Headers give you, all other things being equal, between 10% and 15% greater horsepower and torque both, according to messing with the Comp Cams dyno simulator program. That's a big increase for not a lot of money, since the cheap Hooker headers are only $175.
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If you are looking for performance gains then go with headers. If you don't care...manifolds are probably easier, but not without their headaches! Our manifolds were designed generally for 2" exhaust pipe. If you step-up in size there are places that are making 2-1/4" for manifolds. I think you might even be able to find a 2-1/2" setup. The issue is...the manifold wasn't designed for that size of pipe. Generally speaking...they make the exhaust donut flange, but don't put in the section of straight-pipe that the Chevy did to retain the inside of the fiber, donut gasket. What happens?...the donut gasket fails prematurely and collapses into the inside of the pipe. Resulting in...A Leak! >:( Both Fel-Pro and Mr. Gasket I think make a sintered metal donut gasket that will stand-up better in this situation.
The best luck I have had with manifolds is to make sure that you replace all of the studs with new ones...I usually use Dorman stuff and then also be sure that you use the stock brass nuts!
As for Headers, I have, for myself come up with what I feel is the best setup (again...from my experience)...that is...a header with thick head flanges (1/4" or better) and standard 3-bolt exhaust collectors. For header gaskets I use the RemFlex gaskets and the Nord-lock locking header bolts. For collector gaskets I use the thin brass ones, or the dead soft aluminum ones. If you have thick header flanges and the Remflex gaskets you will probably have to go to the LS length header bolts, because the stock ones will be to short for the thickness of the joint. The Nord-locks work awesome and you will never have to worry about header bolts loosening again!
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If you're after torque, look at a set of tri-Y headers. Supposedly, the tri-Y design is significantly better for low RPM torque.