73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Body, Glass & Paint => Topic started by: Mike86c10 on May 30, 2013, 10:32:35 am
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I bought an 86 C10 a few weeks ago and thought I had a minor leak issue. (I have a post in the general forum). Well I just removed the wiper motor and scraped off some black sealant on the firewall and found a huge gaping rust hole. How deep in the hole am I? I was going to attempt to fix some issues myself but this just went beyond my abilities and tool inventory.
I assume the rust spreads further than can be seen. If you could recommend anybody that lives in the Philadelphia area or 30-40 mile radius I would greatly appreciate it.
Here are the pics:
Before removing wiper motor - http://i.imgur.com/GUywQGKh.jpg
After - http://i.imgur.com/RrxMQV9h.jpg
Full Gallery - http://imgur.com/a/lgrpJ
Original post - http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,26191.0.html
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woah you werenīt kidding about the size of the hole... since you have such a nice truck i assume you wanīt to do it the right way... so you kinda have to cut the piece out and weld in new metal... weīll see what other members have to say about it...
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You will need to cut beyond the rust into "good" metal and use the piece you cut out as a template to cut your new piece. Then butt weld it back in place.
Welding is a good skill to learn and can save you thousands in repair bills.
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You will need to cut beyond the rust into "good" metal and use the piece you cut out as a template to cut your new piece. Then butt weld it back in place.
Welding is a good skill to learn and can save you thousands in repair bills.
seriously... usually a weld at a welding shop cost from 1-2 dollars per inch of weld... at least thats what i heard... think how much welding is going to be needing for a patch like this....
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I don't have a garage so it's tough for me to do anything that requires major work. I have a few people lined up that are going to take a look at it and give me their opinion. At least you guys are saying its repairable instead of buy a new cab.
This post here shows what kind of work goes into completely fixing a firewall. These guys are working it themselves though. I can't imagine how expensive it would be to remove the engine components and fenders at a shop to then have to weld.
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=10512.0
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i really dont think you need a new cab... and probably dont need to remove the engine or the fenders.. it might be hard to weld but nothing impossible.. have you seen pipe welders weld... now does are some tight spots and their able to weld the pipes and get them approved/certified... with this its just a patch with very little to no stress on the welds...
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Good point, thanks for the insight.
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Gildardo,
Not sure what you are questioning about my statement. I have done repairs like this on many cars and my process is exactly what a body shop would do, at least a good one. You can expect to spend from 50-70 dollars an hour on rust repair. I learned to weld and fix this kind of problem out of necessity. If there is a reproduction patch panel it can make it a little easier. Cutting a salvage piece out of an original truck is usually a better fit.
Mike, you dont need a new cab, you can repair this. If you decide to look for reproduction patches check with AMD they make excellent reproductions.
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You will need to cut beyond the rust into "good" metal and use the piece you cut out as a template to cut your new piece. Then butt weld it back in place.
Welding is a good skill to learn and can save you thousands in repair bills.
seriously... usually a weld at a welding shop cost from 1-2 dollars per inch of weld... at least thats what i heard... think how much welding is going to be needing for a patch like this....
jb weld :) last ditch though you can buy a 99.00 wire welder form harbor freight it actually works good to be a cheapy
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Gildardo,
Not sure what you are questioning about my statement. I have done repairs like this on many cars and my process is exactly what a body shop would do, at least a good one. You can expect to spend from 50-70 dollars an hour on rust repair. I learned to weld and fix this kind of problem out of necessity. If there is a reproduction patch panel it can make it a little easier. Cutting a salvage piece out of an original truck is usually a better fit.
Mike, you dont need a new cab, you can repair this. If you decide to look for reproduction patches check with AMD they make excellent reproductions.
Iīm not questioning anything iīm actually agreeing with you about how much you can save by learning how to weld and doing the the welding yourself... i guess i didnīt explain myself...
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No problem, things get lost in translation through text.
We are on the same page though..............its definitely worth learning how to weld if you are going to mess with old cars and trucks.
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I'm going to look into purchasing some equipment. I will update the post with my progress. Thanks.
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Dont buy a cheap welder they are more trouble than they are worth. I like Miller.
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and make sure you cover your carpet up with something that will protect it and anything else that might catch on fire
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Be care full, I've set the firewall insulation on fire several times myself .
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Be care full, I've set the firewall insulation on fire several times myself .
kind of ironic
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Be care full, I've set the firewall insulation on fire several times myself .
kind of ironic
lol... didnīt learn the first time i guess... it is actually pretty easy to set it on fire... if it starts to smoke does that count as a fire.. if it does count me in...
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Ok so I took the truck over to a body shop near my work that specializes in old Corvettes to get an opinion since there's more rust than what I could picture. Just by chance, the guy I spoke with knew the old owner of the truck and had previously worked with his father at a speed shop. The old owner and his father had installed the Crate engine together.
After taking a look he found the rust is pretty much spread throughout the firewall. There's another hole behind the heater core, behind the air cleaner there's problems (covered by sealant), and the rust behind the wiper motor goes down into the fuse box area. He also said that it's starting to go near the master cylinder, which could be a structural problem. However he said he's seen worse and considering the rest of the truck is in good shape not to get discouraged.
His two recommendations were either to find a complete firewall from the south and have it shipped up (I live NE of Philadelphia). The other option is to cut it all out and do custom patch work. He said that the engine would need to be pulled and some of the interior would need to be removed as well. He estimated around $1200 for the body work if I were able to remove the engine and bring it to him on a flatbed.
Since it's more involved now, and I don't have a garage to work or store anything, I'm going to start looking for a complete firewall and probably get the work done in the shop. I guess I'll budget around $2000 for parts and labor, and use family connections to find a qualified guy who can do it for a discount.
If anybody has a good lead on a firewall please let me know.
Edit:
I actually think I'm going to let somebody just cut it all out and fabricate new steel in.
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If its that bad, I would find another cab. Your gonna have most of it striped by the time your done fixing the rust.
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It is your truck, but I agree with Sartobuilt. By the time you spend that much money and time, you could just swap a clean cab in. Maybe the only rust in the cab is in the firewall, but if it is that rusty there I expect there is rust in the rockers, cab corners, door frames and floor pans as well. Even if only one of the areas is rusty I think you would be better off with a new cab in both time and money.
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If its that bad, I would find another cab. Your gonna have most of it striped by the time your done fixing the rust.
Yep
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ok heres my honest opinion. i hate to say it but find another truck, the amount of rust on your firewall doors wheel well you will prob loose interest before your halfway done and not to mention the amount of money your putting into it. hows the frame look also? holes in cross members. maybe find one with a blown motor and trands and swap your in into it
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ok heres my honest opinion. i hate to say it but find another truck, the amount of rust on your firewall doors wheel well you will prob loose interest before your halfway done and not to mention the amount of money your putting into it. hows the frame look also? holes in cross members. maybe find one with a blown motor and trands and swap your in into it
i was thinking the same thing... but the guy doesnīt have a garage..
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If decide to go firewall fix only, I don't have to get a paint job immediately. I found a family friend who can remove the engine and do the work, I'm going to get an estimate soon, let's say its about $1,500. The rocker panels were replaced about 10 years ago, and I don't see any rust in the door frame.
If I find a cab I'm looking at around $?? plus about 500 shipping. Then the cost for somebody to install the thing plus paint. If I do paint, I'm going to have to immediately address the minor body issues as well. I need some minor fixing on the doors (unless the cab comes with rust free doors), and there's fixing around the rear wheels that need to be done.
Both body shops I've taken it to they were positive about the condition of the truck. The first guy climbed under and checked out the frame and bed and was impressed with the condition of everything in the rear.
I don't think it's time to jump ship yet.
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You can buy a rust free truck for less money. I can't tell you what to do, only suggest. But think about how much money you can save
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Ok I'll look start looking for a truck before spending any money or making any final decisions.
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Yea shop and compare
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You can buy a rust free truck for less money. I can't tell you what to do, only suggest. But think about how much money you can save
and make money by selling the rest of the truck on eBay or Craiglist... sell parts of it instead of the whole truck....
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I decided that I'm going to eventually find a new cab (or buy a truck to use the cab). This way I don't have to rush to make any decisions. The rust can do what it wants and I'll just keep covering it when it's supposed to rain.
Just for conversations sake, if somebody were to attempt a firewall fix, wouldn't it be easier to remove the cab from the frame, instead of removing the engine to do the work?
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It depends. There may be less shift of the cab if its still bolted to the frame when you remove the firewall.
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like fair said you need to make sure it stay as square as possible
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So I guess I'm taking a risk getting a used cab shipped from out of state since I don't know if it will be square or not.
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i recommend buying a whole truck near you.... just keep your eyes open for one on craiglist or ebay... or truck trader magazine... remember you can buy a truck for 2k use the cab then sell the engine, tranny, dif, bed and everything else..might even pay for the repair..ya know
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So I guess I'm taking a risk getting a used cab shipped from out of state since I don't know if it will be square or not.
a solid cab you wont have a problem with. its just when you cut/rust a piece out that helps retain the shape. think of it like this if your taking a wall down in a house you have to make sure its not a load barring wall or it can collapse or sag really bad the only way to prevent this is supporting it with something else. but yeah shop near by so you can look for the things wrong with your truck that the seller might leave out of his discription
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How about 3M panel adhesive?