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General Site Info => General Discussion => Topic started by: Irish_Alley on December 13, 2013, 04:38:13 am
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was over to my uncles house the past weekend and knew about the situation before but never really thought of it. but somehow their neighbor has a right of way on their property "my uncles driveway" he drives up it and then drives across their yard almost a 90° turn he stays near the woods but he used to drive a tractor trailer, but i think now he has stopped. i can understand right of ways and all if your land locked, but the problem i have is his yard is shaped just like my uncles and is parallel to his and his front yard touched the road. so now the big problem i have and dont understand is the neighbor has build a driveway of his own yet still uses my uncles.
i know this aint my business but my uncle is like my dad he pretty much raised us, so seeing him get upset about this kind of gets me upset. they (uncle and aunt) said they talked to a lawyer after the neighbor built his own driveway and the lawyer said he still has a right of way on my uncle property. my uncle was at work at the time so i couldnt talk to him at the time. anyone have and experience with trying to get a neighbors right of way removed? im thinking something to do with the neighbor building his own driveway should be enough since hes not land locked, and maybe if my uncle could try to get the neighbor to help with the upkeep of the driveway, if the neighbor refuses then this would cause him to forfeit his right of way.
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I have a shared driveway. The deed states that maintenance is shared between both parties. Been a couple of instances but not to bad.
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A mutual driveway is not the same as a right of way. I have an expired right of way between my neighbor and me which used to lead to a clover mill a few hundred years ago
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9 years ago Marvin Heemeyer of Granby, Colorado went on a rampage in his D9 Cat that he turned into an armored tank over basically a right-of-way issue on his land! It was a long festering issue that he received no help over from city officials.
Don't be like Heemeyer! ;)
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i still remeber watching that on tv..
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Have him check with the court house. The Register of Deeds office or County Appraisers office should have the right away agreement on file. If they don't have any documentation of a right away then the other person is trespassing (technically). I don't know if they get along or not ( your uncle & his neighbor), but if a right away agreement is on file, then it will take both parties and a little paper work to have it removed. It would be preferable to have something like this removed even if they are great friends, because later on down the road it could become an issue for the next set of landowners. I would check the court house before approaching the neighbor, just to have the knowledge in case the neighbor does not like the request to not use that drive anymore. If an agreement exists it could also list financial responsibilities between both parties.
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that's an interesting delimna. I just bought a new house (haven't moved in yet-closing is Dec 30) that sits on a private road one mile long out in the country. I have 10 acres. 5 homes share the road, and the road cuts my acreage in half. Two homes are behind me. We all share a 9 acre lake and the road goes over the dam of the lake, then the road splits into three driveways: mine, the house to my north and the house to my east. I don't see a problem with it. I think all the neighbors get along very well and respect each other. We all have a gentleman's agreement to take turns putting gravel on the road. My 3 acres north of the road is my lawn and house and garages and the acreage below the driveway is my wooded acreage which soon will be ATV trails and a firing range. check out the link: http://www.delbridge.net/13green.html (http://www.delbridge.net/13green.html)
and the land plot shows in purple the road that is shared. My property is seen outlined in red. The blue is the lake. The road ends and splits into 3 driveways on my land--no biggie to me.
(http://www.delbridge.net/13acreage1.jpg)
But, to answer your question, the solution would probably be to hire an attorney. When the right of way was directed, he was landlocked. Now he's not. It is not needed. He can easily get that changed then nail some no trespassing signs.
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so since hes(neighbor) is no longer landlocked he "legally" has no rights to the right of way, if they get a lawyer involved then no agreement between the two partys would be needed?
i want to say they both where happy with each other. then something happened. i think my uncle rode his atv and crossed the property line or something to that effect in the woods. and next thing you know "no trespassing" sign where put up. So the neighbor build his driveway (which I don’t understand if his property touched the road then how does he get a right of way, maybe it was something before they both got the propertys) but what really got to my uncle is when he and his grandkids would be playing in the front yard and next thing you know the neighbor would come rolling down my uncles driveway and blasting his horn.
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the neighbor may still have a legal 'right', depending on what a previous agreement says--which should be documented in the courthouse. However, now that he isn't landlocked, if a legal agreement did exist, it could in theory be expunged. An atty can check that out and initiate the legal process.
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(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m387/rebel_cowboy_83/stuff/uncle_zps5961ca67.png) (http://s333.photobucket.com/user/rebel_cowboy_83/media/stuff/uncle_zps5961ca67.png.html)
i dont even see why he would use my uncles driveway straight shot to his place if he uses his own and its shorter
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that could definately be changed if there is a standing order. An attorney won't charge much to get that going. If there is no standing order, some no trespassing signs should do the trick.
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oh yeah ment to say WOW on the house andy. looks like some hard work finally paid off. you could get lost (mentally) there real fast.
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Thanks Irish. In my 22 1/2 years working in my current agency, i've never been more stressed there than I am now, since becoming a captain. You guys haven't seen me on this site in a while--just been too busy. So i've decided I will retire at my earliest chance, which will be in 3 years and 10 months. but who's counting. So, i decided to hunt around and see what's available while interest rates are still low and I still have decent income coming in, for my retirement oasis. This is the first property we saw on a day we saw 7 properties, about 30 minutes from where my wife and i work. We all fell in love with it. My son and I can ride our ATVs, go fishing, take a walk along the one mile drive way--and the peace and quiet are amazing. It is a way, as you put it, to mentally get away from everything--exactly. Did i mention the 2.5 bay garage and large shed??? this place has it all--we had our offer approved within a week.
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By the look of the photo the neighbor was being lazy and/or cheap and just using your uncle's driveway. Hope there is no real paperwork on a right away and it's easy to accomplish.
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Essentially, Driveways mean nothing, no matter how long they've been in placed and used. It's what the county/state says whom owns it.
I live next door to my parents, We share a driveway that splits about 200 ft from the road. IF THEY WANTED TO, they could make it so I could never use it again and would have to recut my own NEW driveway to get to the road. Unless landlocked or talking about the part next to the road the state always has right to, right of way is non existent. it's your problem, even if you have to mow down 500, 200 yr old oaks to do it. At least in GA, anyway.
My parents could at anytime deprive me of use of THEIR driveway and I'd have to cut a new one and have the gravel brought in n such to serve myself.
Basically, Whose land is it? they have last say period.
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I know in Kansas that is partially true. The problem lies in if there is an agreement between neighbors that has been filed with the Court House, Register of Deeds. Then it is a legal contract between two parties and needs to be dissolved with more paperwork.
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Some good ideas, some not so good.
First, determine if there is really a valid right of way. Check the deed to see whether it mentions the right of way. If it doesn't mention it you need to do a search at the court house to see if there is a right of way that was recorded. If it was recorded, get a copy as these are public records.
You can't correctly speculate without all the documents. When you get them post up with your findings. We can then have a better discussion.
IDK what your state laws are but I doubt paying an attorney to address the issue will do anything but lighten your
checkbook. I doubt the court would even address it. Your uncle may have to buy back the right of way. But first get a copy of the deed and right of way and let's go from there.
Rusty
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There could also be issues with regards to that if the neighbor has used the uncles driveway for x number of days/years, he may thereby have legal claim to the driveway property regardless of the right of way usage if no filed documentation has been recorded to the contrary. Definitely should go have an initial consultation with a property specialized lawyer and get a copy of uncle's Deed to see hoe usage/right of way is legally defined. Do this sooner as opposed t later. Best of luck.
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My sister and brother in law just had a issue like this. They bought 20 acres that had a right of way to the back side of another property. They didn't mind until the guy started to do a bunch of logging for firewood and using their new driveway to skid the wood out with his tractor. He made a mess out of the thousands of dollars they were spending to upgrade their driveway. They also had a few other issues with him thinking the land was for his use however he saw fit because he had always done so. Because the right of way didn't state exactly where it was located a nice boulder surround was made on the side of the driveway. He noticed immediately and thru a fit about his right of way. He was informed that it was right there on the other side of the drive which was all wet and swampy. A nice straight path was cut for him along with some extra drainage into it to keep it unusable. If he had not been a jerk about everything his right of way would have remained the same.
Maybe your uncle's right of way on his property can be moved up near the road.
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Basically, Whose land is it? they have last say period.
this is how i would see in unless someone is landlocked. its almost like hes just antagonizing my uncle and he would drive his tractor trailer down my uncles drive then blow his horn as hes turning left, when he could just use his own
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Again, some not so good points.
Let the OP do his due diligence and get the documents and the facts if he so desires. Then post up. Without the documents and facts, you're all merely speculating. That is of no help to the OP.
I have had experience in these type of matters but I would want to see the documents if it were my situation.
My $.02.
Rusty
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yeah i live a couple states away from my uncle so might have to wait till next vacation or see if they can send a copy of what he has. and its not "bad" for people to post their opinions and experiences cause they might have been in a situation where they know how they got out of the same situation. and they might know how someone can get around certain things. i understand what your saying its all kind of waisting time till someone comes back with the contract but it can help response time if they post their situation in the mean time
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As posted earlier, i just bought a house with 10 acres--land that would be land-locked along a one-mile private road if there is no documented right of way easement. Well, we were supposed to close tomorrow. However, on Friday, the loaner's attorney called to say there is nothing in the courthouse documenting right of way for the property I'm trying to buy. There are still two more properties behind me that must cut across my new land to get to theirs--i have no problem with that since i know it exists prior to me buying my property. So, the attorney wasn't happy--nothing documented in the courthouse. He placed the burden of proof on the seller--which should have been disclosed prior to listing property on the market. After a little back and forth, it seems the seller pulled a rabit out of his hat at the last minute and found where his original deed DOES mention right of way through the two other properties the long road crosses prior to reaching his place--which will be my place this week.
I made my stance clear---if it wasn't documented correctly, i would not go through with the purchase. I do not want to fight a legal battle next year or in five years when some neighbor says i can't cut across his property anymore--or tries to say i must pay him $5k a year to use his property to get to mine. Not going through that. And, i don't plan to purchase a helicopter to get to the property.
So, i found out today from the realtor it has all been worked out. I will speak to the attorney tomorrow. Looks like closing will be on Tuesday---last day of the year. Gonna bring in the new year in style in a new place. I will get the details from the atty to see if it will now be documented correclty in the courthouse this time.
A lot of these issues begin when a farm is subdivided, usually for family members. There are no problems as long as family continues to live in these subdivided parcels---however, as years go by, properties are bought and sold and residents are no longer related---it is imperative to document these things correctly or when it comes to selling your property, it may be delayed or even unsold because of these issues. Attorneys who specialize in these things ARE beneficial and can save a lot of headache down the road if you plan to purchase a property or sell your property in the future.
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---it is imperative to document these things correctly or when it comes to selling your property, it may be delayed or even unsold because of these issues. Attorneys who specialize in these things ARE beneficial and can save a lot of headache down the road if you plan to purchase a property or sell your property in the future.
I'm glad you were able to resolve your issues. Attorneys can be helpful if they are knowledgeable of land law. However, your title policy is supposed to divulge these encumbrances or defects on the land you are buying. The attorney's job is to address the problem and advise if title is defective and take care of curative actions if that's what he/she was hired to do. Am I correct that the services of a title company weren't utilized in this transaction? If one was used, the title report is supposed to furnish copies of all documents in its title search which should have included the documents for the right of way across your new property for the other 2 lots behind you. That would raise a question about legal access to your land. And, the easement across your new property is likely an extension of the "rabbit out of the hat" easement the seller magically found. Reading between the lines here it sounds like the original right of way to all the landlocked properties was never recorded. So how did you determine yours had right of way across it?
Hope my understanding and analysis of your situation is correct. Not trying to be a know-it-all and show off my knowledge. Trying to be helpful. I've seen many title problems in my journeys in Alaska and don't like to see people misled or outright lied to by unscrupulous people. Sounds like an ignorant seller that has a somewhat shady side. Maybe it's some older person w/ a bad memory. LOL.
Rusty
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I don't know all the details, but know it's all good now and underwriting approved everything when the attorney became happy. The seller's deed included not only the easements, but also the road maintenance agreement that all owners along this road follows. The attorney advised me that it has been recorded in the title correctly. Moving in tomorrow.