73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Interior & Equipment => Steering Columns => Topic started by: Junkie on November 28, 2014, 09:55:13 pm
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It seems my truck has a broken ignition actuator. The key turns with no real resistance.
Has anyone tried any other methods aside from tearing the column apart to get to it? I'd be happy to relocate the ignition to somewhere else if it can be reasonably done, rather than spending significant time at a junkyard getting an actuator of questionable quality and then even more time installing it in mine.
If I should just do it right, are there any different kinds of actuator rods other than tilt vs fixed? I have a fixed column '73 C20, 350/350, column shift.
Thanks for any advise.
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could be the switch could be the rod maybe even the cylinder. i wouldnt get them from a junkyard except the rod. you could rig up some toggle switches but this would make steeling your truck easy
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The key turns the cylinder far too easily. From what I've read it sounds like the rod is the most likely problem. Only reason I'm thinking junkyard is they don't appear to be available otherwise.
Right now I just have it hotwired under the hood, luckily it seems it failed in a way that left steering and shift lever unlocked.
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the rod should effect the shifter or locking plate thats done by the cylinder. once my wife took my keys for my mud truck and i wanted to go mudding. i used super glue for the pin that locks the locking plate, ran a hot wire to the distributor and jump started the starter. worked good till my accelerator stuck wide open, i had to jump out of the truck in the mud hole water up to my hips and pop the hood then rip the hot wire off the battery.
you can feel on top of the steering column for the rod, the one i had brake on me years ago fell onto the floor. see if you can move the rod by hand
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Now sure what year it changed. But some rods push to activate the switches at the bottom of the Collum and some years pulled the rod
You just need two switches
One for the ign and a spring loaded one for the starter
Or just bend the rod where you can reach it and pull or push
Steering wheel still locks right ?
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Steering wheel is not locked. I've even driven it around a little to do errands (not too far as it isn't charging the way it's hotwired).
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I just took a look and I don't see anything moving on the bottom of the column when I turn the key. The small cover is off, don't know if anything else needs to be removed.
Turning the key takes way less effort than it should, too.
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Its on the top side. Don't think you can really see it but you should feel the rod then farther down will be a plastic box
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How would I feel it? Where exactly? The column has hard plastic on it so I can't figure out where I'd feel it.
edit: and when I turn the key there's very little resistance. Way less than I'd expect. That's why I figured a broken actuator rather than the switch not working.
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Under the dash you will find all sorts of wiring there will be a pigtail along with the headlight dimmer switch (depending on year) and the rod. If you take one hand and grab ahold of the column under the dash you should feel the rod moving
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I think I found it, a fairly small diameter rod. A little offset to the left. It doesn't budge when I turn the key.
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Try moving it by hand to see if its broken. You can start the engine this way so make sure your not in gear.
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I can't get it to do anything. It's small enough that it'll wiggle back and forth a little (under 1/8" free play I think), but I can't get a good enough grip on it to push it down or pull it up. Which direction would turn it on? I put the key in and turned it, no motion that I could feel from that.
It's an auto rather than a manual, so it won't move.
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it should go down but they are hard to move dont sweat it. i was thinking maybe if you could move it then it would point to a broke rod. since you cant move it your only choice is to take apart the steering column. but you could also have a (key on) hot wire go to a momentary switch then to the starter solenoid. this way you still can turn the truck of via key and you also cant start it without the key, just turn the key in on and hit the momentary switch to turn the starter
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I guess I'll head to the junkyard tomorrow. Is there any easier but somewhat destructive way of getting the rod out? I don't want to ruin stuff but not too concerned about junkyard trucks either.
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Oh, and am I limited to no-tilt 73-87(91) full sizes or is there another rod that'll work?
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the rod shouldnt be the problem. should be the ignition switch or cylinder
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Looks like those are cheap and in stock at auto parts stores. Or is non-OEM a bad idea?
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parts stores are ok for these. i would only go oem for certain sensors on trucks with a ecm
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I'm a little stuck now. I have the column largely disassembled, but the internals are different than the pictures I'd seen. The lock cylinder won't come out at this point. Any suggestions?
(http://i.imgur.com/Aiegtki.jpg)
edit: and when I push on the rod in the hole at 10:30 or so, the ignition turns on (or at least the turn signals started flashing).
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Err, I was wrong about that. The ignition actuator is in the square hole, and it's pulling on it that does things. I can pull it enough to get turn signals to work, and then pushed it back with a punch to not kill the battery.
I still can't figure out how to get the lock cylinder out, though.
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Yes, I now have the steering wheel and lock plate off, as well as the turn signal. I can't figure out how to get the lock cylinder out.
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Take a look at the attached
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.
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This one specifically
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Mine looks significantly different than the picture there. I don't see a slot to stick a screwdriver in, as shown in image 54.
(http://i.imgur.com/Ef1G3xu.jpg)
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Do the pictures I posted show up?
And yes, I managed to screw up the end of the column a little... it'll be fun getting those threads back in useable shape so I can get the nut back on. The puller slipped.
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Take a look at the attached. Take a flat blade screwdriver and tap it where the arrow is. The casting area will break through enabling you to depress the little spot on the ignition cylinder which will pop right out.
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Wow, I didn't realize they literally meant breaking through the casting. Thanks.
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Yep and file down the shaft where you peened it over. If the threads are damaged try using a thread file
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Wow, I didn't realize they literally meant breaking through the casting. Thanks.
me neither
I've only worked on tilt Collumns though and they are different
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I got the old cylinder out. The metal part at the end was broken. I managed to fish the old part out of the column, and put the new cylinder in. It appears that in trying to get it apart earlier, I screwed something else up - it would jump teeth when I tried to turn it. So, I tried to get the new cylinder out, only to break the end off.
Any suggestions now? Another new cylinder isn't a big deal, I just don't know how to get the old broken one out.
(http://i.imgur.com/1tJIGsL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/lDSaSbs.jpg)
Had I not fiddled with stuff for a long time before removing the old one the right way, it probably would've just worked...
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Do you have the key cylinder in the run position when removing and installing it?
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I had the old one in the run position when removing it. I think I had the new one in the run position, but it's hard to tell exactly and it may not have been quite right.
I got the old one out, got the new one in, and then broke the new one trying to get it back out.
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Good thing they're cheap enough!
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The problem now is getting the new broken one out. I'm not sure how to do that.
Also, any tips for assembly to get it to work right when I put another new one in?
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Just depress the button and push it out. If it won't depress, rotate it to the run position with a screwdriver. Don't put the new one in until the column jacket is back together. Make sure the actuator is in the run position with a pair of needle nose, rotate the lock cyl to the run position and just pop it in.
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I couldn't get the rod to move much at all. I also seem to have dislodged the tiny leaf spring that puts preload on the rack and pinion, so things may not be lined up anymore.
Once I get the new broken cylinder out, how do I get the jacket off to get stuff lined up right?
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You'll get it, just takes some patience and practice. A little dab of grease helps hold things in place as well
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Maybe some Youtube videos will help. I didn't watch any of these so I can't verify if they're good but you might get some better visuals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgXBxd0Bqp0
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That shows removing the cylinder in what I believe is the locked position - the little notch on the outside lines up with "lock". 4:56 shows that.
Mine hasn't worked right since I got it, so I'm not exactly sure what the right angle is. The fact that it's jumping teeth on the mechanism makes it difficult to get to a specific place, too.
I'm seriously considering just getting rid of this and putting a keyed switch on the dash somewhere, not too worried about theft. Electronically, what do I need?
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I got the cylinder in in the correct position, but it won't move the actuator - it takes enough force that it skips teeth. That's with the leaf spring that applies preload to the rack and pinion in place. Any suggestions as to why it's so hard to move?
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Also: I found a complete column from a floor shift truck, with a working ignition setup. $50 including an aftermarket steering wheel (which I'd prefer to the enormous stock one, which is also very sticky).
How big of a project is swapping the column? Could I use one from a floor shift truck, or is it a different column? Mine is column shift. Or I could just convert mine to floor shift...
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It would be cheaper to pay a mechanic to fix your column for you which is probably what you should do at this point.
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I'm not typically mechanically inept: I've done head gaskets on DOHC engines, engine swaps, etc.
I don't believe that I can get a mechanic to fix it for the cost of the new column, partly because some parts aren't available anymore. I suspect there's something jammed up down the column somewhere, as it takes quite a bit of force on the actuator to start the truck. Another option would be a problem with the switch itself. So a $50 column might be a way to fix that, if I can use a column designed for floor shift manual can be used with a TH350.
If I can't fix it the right way by myself, I plan on wiring up a keyed switch on the dash as the ignition switch. However, I'd rather do it the right way.
At this point it's driveable, I'd just like it to be a little more secure than it is now.
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I wouldnt fool with using the manual Collum
An auto Collum should be easy to find at any and every pick and pull
Manual columns are rare
Get a tilt Column while you swapping it
Look on CL. Most towns have a guy that rebuilds GM Collumns for $100 or so
We had an old junker with the same problem as you
We just bent the actuator rod sideways right at the dash
So you used the key to unlock the wheel and then pulled on the rod to start it
And pushed on the rod to stop it
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Are you sure that's the direction it takes for yours? On mine I push on it to start and pull to turn it off. All the way out is acc, then lock/off, then run, then start is pushing it all the way in.
Is the tilt column a bolt in?
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Are you sure that's the direction it takes for yours? On mine I push on it to start and pull to turn it off. All the way out is acc, then lock/off, then run, then start is pushing it all the way in.
Is the tilt column a bolt in?
Tilt column is a bolt in
We installed a tilt from a 82 in a 77
We needed all of the column down to and including the rag joint
Somewhere along the line GM reversed the direction of the rod
They are interchangeable and in fact use the exact same switch at the bottom But the switch is just bolted on backwards
Same wire harness plug etc
Just take the two screws out flip the switch around and bolt it back on and plug the wires back in
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I ended up putting in a junkyard column. It came out of a '74 but it used a pull rod rather than a push rod so I suspect it may have been a swap. Additionally, it didn't use any torx bits that I saw - they were phillips instead.
Everything works well now, although I need to get the wheel centered so the turn signals cancel right.