73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: Stewart G Griffin on December 06, 2014, 08:11:35 am
-
The left side head has been removed. Everything looks ok, but if my builder's square is straight, then the head is definitely warped at least .005". Hopefully, i will have time this weekend to remove the right side head.
-
The left side head has been removed. Everything looks ok, but if my builder's square is straight, then the head is definitely warped at least .005". Hopefully, i will have time this weekend to remove the right side head.
Post up some pics if you get a chance!
-
The left side head has been removed. Everything looks ok, but if my builder's square is straight, then the head is definitely warped at least .005". Hopefully, i will have time this weekend to remove the right side head.
Post up some pics if you get a chance!
i will post some pics as soon as i can, but they won't be pretty. i pulled the right side head on sunday. The whole engine probably needs a complete rebuild---hence my decision to install the 4.3 v-6 that's been sitting in my garage for all these months. i'm not sure if i want to put in all that effort to rebuild the 305 (even though i love it) when i can get a brand new 350 for $1500.
-
i'm not sure if i want to put in all that effort to rebuild the 305 (even though i love it) when i can get a brand new 350 for $1500.
That's fair. Definitely makes a difference on whether you would enjoy pulling the thing apart and building it back up or whether it's the cruising around in your truck that you enjoy. Either way keep us posted!
-
Is the 305 advantageous in any ?
God,Family,Fishing,Cardinals baseball,Chevy trucks
-
Is the 305 advantageous in any ?
God,Family,Fishing,Cardinals baseball,Chevy trucks
i can't think of any; i just loved this engine--it was so dependable and really it would still be running if i didn't overheat it. i've had 305's and 350's and i think 350's are just more versatle---more power, mpg about the same based on my experiences. You can get a new 350 for about $1500 so i'm not sure if i even want to mess around rebuilding the 305.
-
Not good:
i decided to take the right side valve cover off of the v-6, because something just didn't seem right and here's what i found (i'm still in shock):
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/000_0449_zps10fa7973.jpg)
Now, the engine did run good--i heard it run before buying. Do i trust the guy? Maybe so-so, maybe he didn't know either as he bought the truck to part it out.
Now what?
A REAL "rice-burner" eh?
-
i'm thinking i might just go with a new crate 350 and be done with it. :(
-
Not good:
i decided to take the right side valve cover off of the v-6, because something just didn't seem right and here's what i found (i'm still in shock):
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/000_0449_zps10fa7973.jpg)
Now, the engine did run good--i heard it run before buying. Do i trust the guy? Maybe so-so, maybe he didn't know either as he bought the truck to part it out.
Now what?
A REAL "rice-burner" eh?
See what happens when you buy parts made in China? :o
-
Installed new fuel pump.
Removed rice (???) from cylinder head (still shaking my head over that one)
Installed breather in right side valve cover; The engine came with two---one in both valve covers. i wonder who worked on this engine.........?
Ordered both fuel fitting to connect fuel pump with custom carb to pump line; stock V-6 pump to carb lines are hard to find and ordered TDC finder from Jeg's.
i am going to try to do 2 things per day with this engine as i need it running asap.
-
Installed new fuel pump.
Removed rice (???) from cylinder head (still shaking my head over that one)
installed breather in right side valve cover; The engine came with two---one in both valve covers. i wonder who worked on this engine.........
That's so crazy! Good luck with that project!
I've got lots of electrical odds and ends that weren't taken care of from my trucks PO. Not to mention all replaceable maintenance parts were never touched. All bushings are original and falling apart. I've got lots of projects ahead to get my truck to where I want it.
But for today. I washed my truck today since out here in Indiana we have some unseasonably warm weather.
-
Maybe the rice was added in the attempt to hide oil consumption (leaky valve seals)??? I heard of differentials being filled with sawdust to quiet them down...
-
Is the 305 advantageous in any ?
God,Family,Fishing,Cardinals baseball,Chevy trucks
i can't think of any; i just loved this engine--it was so dependable and really it would still be running if i didn't overheat it. i've had 305's and 350's and i think 350's are just more versatle---more power, mpg about the same based on my experiences. You can get a new 350 for about $1500 so i'm not sure if i even want to mess around rebuilding the 305.
I didn't know you could overheat a 305
All the demo derby guys use em cause they will run a long time without water
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Not good:
i decided to take the right side valve cover off of the v-6, because something just didn't seem right and here's what i found (i'm still in shock):
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/000_0449_zps10fa7973.jpg)
Now, the engine did run good--i heard it run before buying. Do i trust the guy? Maybe so-so, maybe he didn't know either as he bought the truck to part it out.
Now what?
A REAL "rice-burner" eh?
Rodents maybe?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Is the 305 advantageous in any ?
God,Family,Fishing,Cardinals baseball,Chevy trucks
i can't think of any; i just loved this engine--it was so dependable and really it would still be running if i didn't overheat it. i've had 305's and 350's and i think 350's are just more versatle---more power, mpg about the same based on my experiences. You can get a new 350 for about $1500 so i'm not sure if i even want to mess around rebuilding the 305.
I didn't know you could overheat a 305
All the demo derby guys use em cause they will run a long time without water
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
i think it was a bad overheat situation last summer. That kinda messed up the engine. i kept driving it and stupidly put up a grill block that was too big. i was late a few times to work and hammered it. So i think it was a combination of all three with the major overheat last summer doing the most damage.
-
Attempted to/ looked at switching 4pin hei module from 305 to the v-6's distributor which is a 5 pin (ESC) module:
-
Not sure how much you will notice but the trans will have a small block stall so it will lock up sooner than a 6 cylinder stall 1500vs2000 rpms.
-
Not sure how much you will notice but the trans will have a small block stall so it will lock up sooner than a 6 cylinder stall 1500vs2000 rpms.
That's a good point. i can live with it for now.
Another interesting point is a lot of these trucks came equipped as such----4.3 v-6 AND Turbo 400! The truck i bought the engine out of was equipped that way.
-
I think it's ok for this day to day. It's also a great place to bring up something and have other members provide links to other threads or sites for info on getting things fixed.
Not every issue needs its own thread, especially if it's hard to describe or choose good search terms. Just my $0.02
-
If we could re-visit this topic, i need a little help understanding the sticky:
http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/escrepl.htm
In order to bypass the ESC function, it says to unhook the spark control computer lead from the pink wire and hook the pink wire directly to the dist. cap.
Let's look at my setup:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/1951ca4a-4bff-4f92-ba8e-e8aadbba741d_zps69cb5bfd.jpg)
As you can see, the pink wire from the computer already goes into the distributor cap. Unless he means unhooked further down the line? And furthermore, if i'm not going to be using the computer, why do i need this wire at all? Maybe i'm not understanding it clearly.
i do understand having to connect the green and black wires, but do i need to reconnect this plug to that ESC harness to create a ground or something?
What i'm trying to do is----the 4.3's distributor is ESC and i want to bypass the ESC function. As you know the 305's distributor from the 78 malibu which is non ESC has a different star-wheel and another part which i forgot the name of, otherwise i would just use that distributor.
-
If you are swapping in a non ESC distributor, you just need the power wire Labled plugs into Dist cap and plut it in.
All the other wires from the ESC are useless...
-
Did the ESC bypass by connecting the green and black wires from the secondary harness. i still don't understand the whole pink lead from the computer but i'll figure it out.
And trimmed the A.I.R. tubes off the exhaust manifold. If you look at the above rice picture, the tube is mostly now gone.
-
Merged all of these topics. See above on information on removing the ESC.
-
The plus side of the rice is it would soak up any moisture.
-
i'm mainly starting a new thread to keep track of my progress.
Re-installed exhaust manifold with anti-seize applied to bolts. i read 25ft/lbs.?
Installed carb. This is the carb original to the truck. Carb that came with engine is probably junk. Mismatched for application. The service manual said 12ft/lbs for the carb to manifold bolts.
And, installed custom fuel line. The reason why i went this route was because fuel pump-to-carb lines for a 4.3 ARE NOT easy to find if they are even out there. i searched long and hard for one. No luck. So i figured rather than to try to hunt for one in a junkyard---remember MOST 4.3's were fuel injected not carbed, it would be easier to just use a pre-made kit. i used this one:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Russell/799/641030/10002/-1
You might think, and so did i, that you could just use any small block pump to carb line, but on 4.3's the fuel pump is mounted upside down. i think this was done so the pump would clear the front crossmember?
The other advantage of using this line, is that i could use Pontiac, Olds and Buick quadrajets as well if i need to.
-
This should be a good thread.
I'm a big fan of the A.N. line that you are using. Once you get the hang of how to cut it to length ( I use a dremel with a small cut off wheel) its great to work with.
Are you going to take pictures of your work? Did you clean up the motor and paint it?
If I was a betting man I would bet that once its installed you will follow up with mpg comparison with the V6 vs V8.
This will be a good read.
-
He has a 2.56 rear end which may dog it too much and have to keep his foot in the throttle. I ran my 4.3L on a 150 mile gas mileage check on my 86 with a 2.73 rear end which got me close to 17 but that was 65-70 mph on the interstate.
-
When I babied my 4.3 in my 94 swb I got 16. This was the same trip that my 79 with a sm465/205 and 28s got 10 when babied. Granted the 4.3 has over 320k so she might not be as strong as she once was
-
This should be a good thread.
I'm a big fan of the A.N. line that you are using. Once you get the hang of how to cut it to length ( I use a dremel with a small cut off wheel) its great to work with.
Are you going to take pictures of your work? Did you clean up the motor and paint it?
If I was a betting man I would bet that once its installed you will follow up with mpg comparison with the V6 vs V8.
This will be a good read.
The A.N. line was actually pre-assembled, but i have built my own in the past and yes, i think i used a dremel. Yeah, i will try to get a pic up soon. i tried cleaning it up but did not paint it.
And, yes, i'm definitely going to be tracking mpg. This is the whole reason i got the 4.3 in the first place. With the 305 overheated, it finally sowed the seed to put the 4.3 in.
-
He has a 2.56 rear end which may dog it too much and have to keep his foot in the throttle. I ran my 4.3L on a 150 mile gas mileage check on my 86 with a 2.73 rear end which got me close to 17 but that was 65-70 mph on the interstate.
Zieg, i'm going to bet and hope it will be ok---as the 4.3 makes almost the same torque and hp as the 305. And the 305 did ok with the 2.56 rear. Of course, the 4.3's torque peak happens at about 400 rpm higher than the 305's though. We'll see.
-
If I understand right, the distributor that you have for the 4.3 is ESC equipped. You can get a new HEI distributor on ebay for under $50 shipped for a 4.3. Then it would be a typical one wire hookup. If your springs and weights are rusty and worn it would be a good investment anyway.
-
Mmmmm......i'm kinda queezy on those ebay distributors. i think msd and a few others make one for a 4.3. Not sure if GM still carries one. i'll be rebuilding mine eventually. For now i connected the green and black wires on the plug to the ESC module. Should function like a regular HEI now.
-
Removed all the bellhousing to block bolts.
Tried to remove the converter to flexplate bolts but there's a problem; The engine has seized due to the overheating so i can't get to the two other bolts. The converter will have to come out with the engine. Then, i will have to completely disassemble the engine---how else can i get to the converter bolts?
undid the starter wires and brace.
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/000_0456_zpsf12bb7b8.jpg)
Got it cleaned up as far as a lot of the emissions stuff and A.I.R. tubes. The oil fill tube is a nice touch but i think i will just use a cap.
i'm not sure if you can notice, but the carb is higher than the top of the distributor so might be able to use the v-8 air cleaner housing. i forgot to take the v-6 air cleaner housing when i bought the engine and when i realized it two weeks later he said he threw it out.
As i was saying this carb on the engine now is original to the truck. The carb that came with the engine was totally wrong for the application (was a generic rebuilt unit) and even had a heat riser style choke and i'm pretty sure these trucks with the 4.3 never had that style choke.
-
you can pull the trans back and leave the tc attached to the flex plate. it will be a tad more messy but at least you can get them apart
-
But can't i just pull the engine and the converter will come with it? BTW, don't think i can do it today because of rain.
-
If you have enough room I don't see why not but you then have to clear the trans so this means pulling the motor forward enough and straight to clear the trans and the oil pan on the cross member. I think the cross member will be the hardest part
-
Pulled engine(305) today and was able to slide the converter off with the engine. But there's a problem; Before the engine came out, i was able to get a small space between the engine and trans bellhousing. i thought i could slip a wrench in between the flexplate and engine and get the last converter bolt out. i seemed to have rounded it off. So now i definitely have to disassemble the 305. Take the crank out and i'll probably have to cut the last converter bolt?
Got all the main bearings off and #2 didn't look so good.
-
If you get the crank/flexplate/convertor assembly out, there may still be enough shoulder to get a six point socket on the bolt.
-
If you get the crank/flexplate/convertor assembly out, there may still be enough shoulder to get a six point socket on the bolt.
Hopefully. i actually tried to use a 15mm flare wrench(bad idea?) as it worked on the other bolt that was exposed (near the oil filter) and had to use it in that position because the six point socket wouldn't fit.
-
Unfortunately, due to work scheduling and other stuff that has cropped up i can't work on the truck probably until the weekends.
-
Was finally able to separate the converter from the flexplate:
Friday night i went over to a friend's workplace after i got off from work myself. i debated whether to go because i was tired, had a long week, and just wanted to go home, but for some reason i decided to pop over there for a few mins. We had a little conversation about my dilemma and he thought that taking the engine completely apart to take the crank out was too much work and suggested i try getting to the converter bolt with a different type of wrench. (he used to work as a mechanic).
i'm sure glad i went over there and had that little conversation because it got me thinking and doing some more research:
If you can get two of the converter bolts off, then there's juuuuussst enough space to fit a narrow 11/16" wrench in there to undo the flexplate to crank bolts:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/000_0458_zpsf6ecfb08.jpg)
Now, as you might know, there IS enough space between the back of the engine block and the flexplate to fit a 15mm wrench to get to the converter to flexplate bolt. But since it was rounded off, i didn't want to take any chances; i figured i would get the flexplate off completely and then i would have clear access to that bolt and could deal with it better out in the open.
The flexplate came off rather easily considering it's been on the engine 36-7 years. i've dealt with much more stubborn flexplates on newer engines.
Once the flexplate was off i was able to put a 6point 15mm socket on the converter bolt and it grabbed it well enough so i could loosen it. It turns out the bolt was not rounded off THAT bad, but i'm still going to use a new one in place of it.
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/000_0459_zpscab23c5b.jpg)
What did i learn?
1) If you get yourself into this situation---where the engine is seized, you CAN get to the converter bolts. But you need the right tool------a very narrow and long 15mm box wrench. AND there can't be ANY offset. It has to be flat. It won't work if the wrench has any offset.
2) You need the right tool to do the job. i used a 15mm flare nut wrench---because it was the only i could find that would fit. Had i spent $10 to get the right tool i could have saved a lot of trouble....... i don't think these flare wrenches are designed to take a lot of torque. So what may have happened is that the jaws opened up enough to round the bolt head off.
-
It's probably more organized if i put everything here:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/000_0465_zpsvzqnjlfo.jpg)
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/000_0466_zpsbiimnwcz.jpg)
1) In initially comparing the different perches/towers between the 6 and 8 i was worried that the crossmembers for v-6 and v-8 trucks were different. As it turns out the crossmembers are the same. And the rearmost holes in the crossmembers DO match for both v-8 and v-6 perches. (holes closest to cab, farthest from front bumper) However, being my truck is an 83 (and the v-6 was not offered until 85) i do not have any matching holes on the framerail for the v-6 perch. So i will have to drill three holes in the frame on each side. i also need to move the engine over about 1/4 an inch to center it up better.
Any tips for drilling into the framerail?
2) My brother came over to visit and commented that the engine looked really small in there. (It does look kinda small in there.) And was concerned whether it would be able to move the truck? (he's not a truck guy) i assured him that these trucks came with this engine standard and pickup trucks in general have 6 cylinders as the standard engine. LOL
3) In trying to better center the engine in the chassis---from left to right----i felt it need to go about 1/4" inch to the right i discovered that the transmission mount is shot. It's a TH-350C
So, i will have to take care of that before i can do any drilling into the frame to secure the new v-6 perches.
-
Any tips for drilling into the framerail?
Two- lots and lots of lube and use a split point that is very sharp (new), (buy a couple)
OK I lied, more than two; use a slow speed and heavy steady pressure, do not let the drill rock any at all. If it smokes, change bits, you just ruined the one you were using. Chips should come out as a long curl not small chunks. If they come out as chunks you aren't pressing hard enough OR the speed is overrunning the bits cutting ability. A frame is not really all that hard of steel, it should drill rather easy.
-
What is a split point?
i can't do any drilling yet because i discovered my rear transmission mount is totally shot and will need to be replaced. It's separated into two pieces. And i think this was causing difficulty getting the engine centered in the frame----needed to go over to the right about 1/4 inch.
i'm thinking of going with polyurethane.
-
Here is the line up for reference. The back pair of hole (green arrows) are the V-6 mounting holes where the (orange arrows) should be for the V-8
-
Thanks. i can't do any drilling until the Trans mount arrives. This should hopefully get the engine and trans centered properly.
-
i'm thinking i might just go with a new crate 350 and be done with it. :(
Rice burner ?
-
i'm thinking i might just go with a new crate 350 and be done with it. :(
Rice burner ?
i decided to bite the bullet and go ahead with the v-6. i figure i'd be happier that way in the long run as i rarely tow or haul heavy and basically use the truck for transportation---with the occasional ability to pickup bulky items for weekend projects. If i had gone with the crate 350, the truck would most likely be running by now. But i don't think i'd be as happy in the long run.
-
Ok, i got the new trans mount installed and the trans crossmember put back in place. It did seem to help get everything centered up. i went with Energy Suspension pt.# 3-1108. It's polyurethane which i think is more durable than the stock rubber mount. It was $25 or so at Jeg's.
Next, it's on to drilling which i may not be able to get to until next weekend, but hopefully sooner.
i know Greybeard mentioned using a split-point bit which i will look into.
Any other tips for drilling?
-
slow and steady, use cutting oil (regular motor oil works) and let the bit to the work.
-
Hey,
Google split point or pilot point drill bits. They cut faster and much easier than a regular bit. The trick is to get the drill speed at the speed the bit wants. A variable speed drill is best obviously, A cobalt bit drills better and faster than a HSS bit (by hand) but cost considerably more. Drilling is as much art as science. Perfect pressure and bit speed with a steady drill motor (no rocking) and it amazing how easy hand drilling can be, get any of those things seriously wrong and it can become the greatest frustration known to man. A high quality cutting oil is best, and they usually evaporate with little or no trace. I haven't used regular motor oil for drilling in a couple of decades but IIRC it smokes a lot and carbonizes more.
-
Thanks for the drilling tips. i will not be able to get to this for a while because something came up.
The only things left are:
Drill holes in frame for the new mounts
Exhaust re-work (small block is slightly different from v-6. Different enough to where it's not a bolt in)
New/different radiator hoses/trim heater hoses to fit.
Figure out throttle cable /kickdown cable mounting. May be able to use v-8's
Reprogram tach to run on 6 cylinders instead of eight.
Reconnect temp gauge
May have to lenghthen power steering hoses
May have to lenghthen fuel lines to fuel pump.
Reconnect alternator and starter wiring.
Install electric fan properly
-
What size should the hole be drilled at? i'm thinking 3/8"?
-
Same as what the V-8 perches used. Pretty sure they are bigger than 3/8"
-
Believe it or not, i think they really are 3/8." Drilling went ok. i used a transfer punch because i already had the engine in and did not want to go thru the hassle of disconnecting the trans and taking the engine out etc. So i actually drilled thru the holes of the mounts.
i used a drop of regular oil every 20 seconds or so.
And got all the perch bolts in.
-
Good deal! This my regular bimonthly rollaround through here. If regular oil works use what ya have. I remember we had some of the foulest looking thick black cutting oil I've ever seen at work, and it stank to high heaven, but it worked. All it's for is to cool the cutting edge by/and providing lubrication. It stands to reason that whichever side is hotter is also softer. The kicker here is that the cutting edge of a drill bit is very thin, therefore easier to heat up.
I have always preferred cutting holes through a preexisting hole. Cit the first hole insert bolt and tighten, rinse and repeat.
-
Ok, engine is officially in truck----all perches/mounts are bolted in and tightened. The perch bolts are 9/16" socket and the nuts seemed to work best with a 15mm boxwrench.
Next, both fuel lines(the rubber part) will have to be lengthened to reach the fuel pump. Would anyone happen to know the sizes of the rubber hoses, both supply and return, going to the fuel pump?
-
Fuel hoses installed. i went with Thermoid brand fuel injection hoses. 5/16" for supply, 1/4" for return.
Exhaust
Radiator hoses
Throttle/trans kickdown
Vacuum booster brake line
Tighten converter/bellhousing and transmount bolts to correct specs
Reprogram to tach for 6 cyls
reconnect temp gauge
Install starter
Install alternator
Install P/S mounts and extent P/S lines
Intall electric fan properly
-
Radiator hoses from the 4.3, surprisingly, bolted right up to the v-8's radiator. May provide pics tomorrow if there is time.
NEXT CRISIS:
Throttle bracket and cable are too far back to work (cable has bottomed out in this position) The kickdown cable, i think, can be adjusted but i'm not sure. Any suggestions?
-
Ordered new, shorter, correct throttle cable "Pioneer Automotive" brand from summitt. Apparently on the 4.3 the carb sits a few inches further back compared to the v-8. Probably about 4.5" further back----the v-8 cable is like 24"and some change and the v-6 cable is 20.75"
Working on installing brake booster line to back of carb, intall throttle bracket and adjust kickdown cable if it can be adjusted?
Will provide pics asap.
-
i will try to get some pics up asap, but i'm dealing with a lot of other stuff (Hint: Sprint customer service is not that good.........)
Installed brake booster vacuum hose/tube to back of carb. v-6 tube is shaped different from v-8. Fortunately the 4.3 came with this part when i bought it.
8 cyl Throttle return springs are too long. Apparently on a 4.3 the carb sits further back in relation to the throttle bracket. i'll try modifying/shortening the springs.
8 cyl air filter housing will NOT fit due to interference mostly from the top radiator hose. It did clear the HEI distributor though. i will look around for something that might work.
Can you explain how to adjust the downshift cable? i read to lift the "D" button, move the thottle to WOT, and then push the button in. But i'm not real clear. Also can you explain the science behind it----because it looks like as soon as the throttle moves, the cable also moves (i don't have the slotted one, i have the clip on). So as long as the cable reaches it's furthest point when the throttle is at WOT i'm good?
-
For the transmission cable connect it all up.. lift up the lock tab.. have a second person get in the truck and push the pedal down to the floor and lock the tab.
-
As you can see, the 4.3's radiator hoses do bolt directly to the 8 cylinder radiator:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/000_0467_zpspfgpsm2y.jpg)
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/000_0468_zpsctj9zlgg.jpg)
Thanks for the info about the downshift cable. i'll take care of it later as the truck will run without it.
-
3 torque converter bolts installed, engine-to-bellhousing bolts installed.
Trans dipstick installed---also bolts to one of the bellhousing bolts. vacuum tube for vacuum modulator installed.
Throttle bracket installed. Found the v-6 throttle return springs. Pioneer Automotive products throttle cable part#CA 8508 ill fitting and doesn't work very well. Will need to find N.O.S. throttle cable on ebay (not likely) or custom make one. Note that on 4.3's the carb sits further back compared to v-8's so i can't use the v-8. Maybe i can somehow shorten it?
-
New Y-pipe for 4.3 and exhaust manifold installed-----decided to go with a stock Y-pipe and run a single flex pipe to a muffler for now to get it running. Also, this makes it easy to drive to an exhaust shop.
-
Exhaust too difficult---can't get a good secure seal between flex pipe and y-pipe using a band clamp. Don't want to use a u-bolt clamp and i don't have any welding equipment. Will drive to the exhaust shop with open flex pipe. i have seen the videos on Youtube with 4.3 open exhaust. It's not that loud.
BTW. Walker Y-pipe for 4.3 v-6 into 85-87 trucks is part #40423
Next, on to power steering brackets.
Only a few things left, check oil , install spark plugs. i think i will hold off on new plugs for a while, fill radiator, get suitable air cleaner, instal egr valve, install a few vacuum hoses, get throttle cable worked out and we can get it running.
-
Installed starter and wires, Starter front brace is interfering with the 4.3's strut rod bracket, so the starter will have to come back out soon. i am just interested in getting it running for now. i should probably remove these strut rod brackets as they are only maybe .025 thick. i originally left them in because i thought it would affect engine positioning but when you think about it, not really. Installed egr valve, installed plugs and plug wires.
i am mentally burnt out from working on the truck. i would rather drive a car than work on it.
i think the only things left are:
Fill radiator
check oil (should probably be changed)
vacuum hose for trans modulator and torque converter lockup solenoid.
pcv hose (engine originally came with 2PCV valves!!! One in each valve cover!! :o)
re-install breather for valve cover.
oil fill cap for valve cover
recharge battery
install alternator and belt
install power steering pump. Need new P/S pump line and return line as this pump sits about 4.5" farther back than on a v-8 and the v-8 lines won't reach. AC delco
still carries it for the 4.3, part#36-356240 although i think it might be made by someone else.
reprogram tach for 6 cyls
install electric fan properly. i'm planning on using one out of a 04 cavalier. i don't tow or haul heavy so it should be adequate.
Find suitable air cleaner. The stock v-8 air cleaner assembly won't fit
Throttle cable
-
best thing to do is take a break then jump back on it. i faced the same problem with my truck and many will lose interest in their projects when they get burnt out
-
UPDATE: AC Delco P/S pressure line part# #36-356240 WILL NOT fit because the pressure inlet on the steering box for an 83 truck is 18mm. Apparently, by 85 all steering boxes for the trucks went to 16mm opening.
i ended up using the v-8 high pressure line and pivoting it differently so it would reach. Installed longer return hose.
Alternator and negative battery ground cable installed.
-
You keep saying the air cleaner won't fit. What doesn't fit and why? If its because of the upper radiator hose go pickup a air cleaner spacer and bolt it up.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/search/product-line/mr-gasket-air-cleaner-spacers/
-
You keep saying the air cleaner won't fit. What doesn't fit and why? If its because of the upper radiator hose go pickup a air cleaner spacer and bolt it up.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/search/product-line/mr-gasket-air-cleaner-spacers/
The stock v-8 air cleaner housing won't fit and i think it's interfering with the brake booster vacuum hose bracket and it may also be interfering with the rad hose. Carb for a 4.3 sits further back in relation to everything compared to a v-8.
i may try the spacer. How will this affect airflow?
-
Finally got power steering pump mounted and a belt that fits (Dayco 15445 which fits around the crank, water pump and P/S pump only.)
Alternator belt and wiring hooked up.
ground strap to head connected.
PCV hose connected.
Tach reprogrammed for 6 cyls.
i tried starting it up and no spark---verified thru in-line spark tester. Also no rpm signal at tach.
i'm tempted to go the dealer and sign on the dotted line; i see a new Colorado can do everything this truck can do---AND get 27mpg.
-
are you getting 12v to the distributor?
-
Not sure how to check?
-
on the distributor you should have 2 different plugs one goes to the first 3 wires closest to the distributor and the other goes on the outer post of the distributor marked "BAT" right next to the "TACH". verify its plugged in and youre getting 12v to the "BAT" plug wire (should be red)
(http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=25662.0;attach=22499;image)
-
i got power going to the distributor(red wire) verified thru test light. When i put the test light on the tach side, it lights up. When i crank it gets a little dimmer but doesn't blink.
The only thing i did with the distributor since i got this engine is bypass the ESC function by connecting the black and green wires from the ESC pigtail.
-
You did connect the black and green wires on the distributor side, right? Just for testing's sake, you might try running a wire from the positive side of your battery directly to your distributor bat connection. You very well could have a bad ignition control module.
-
OK, we're running; i got a new BWD module from pepboys, plopped it in and it started right up. So it was either the module OR i'm strongly suspecting that i did not plug the pickup coil plug all the way into the module.
Because i saw this engine run with this exact distributor just before i bought it. Then the engine sat for months and the only thing i did was do the ESC bypass AND i took the module out to put some heat sink under it. So, how could a module "fail" just like that? When i have time i'd like to try the old module just to see.
So anyways, it's not that loud at idle without any mufflers---even with 9.5 compression. i'll drive it to the exhaust shop like this.
-
Next crisis:
The engine starts fairly easily but immediately stops after a split second to 1 second.
Thoughts?
-
EXTREME EMERGENCY:
Still dealing with the above crisis:
What i've just done is to loosen the distributor hold down bolt completely and move the distributor a lot by hand with the key in the run position and with an inline spark tester in place.
No spark.
-
See if you can keep then engine running on some sort of starting fluid.
-
Pick up coil wires
-
i think we can rule out ignition---finally because when the engine sputters and stalls out, i can still see the inline spark tester show spark---even when the engine stalls.
i haven't worked with quadrajets in a while, so are there any tips to starting the engine/keeping it running. i have bumped up the curb idle screw a little.
-
Personally, I wouldn't worry about the idle screw just yet. I wouldn't plug in the electric choke just yet. Loosen the screws and turn the choke adjustment until the choke plate is 1/8" away from fully closed. You may have to snap the throttle a few times to make sure you have it. At this point the throttle linkage should be on the fast idle screw and not touching the idle screw. You can turn the fast idle screw up a little just to make sure you have a good high idle to get going off of. Once you get it going you can adjust the fast idle, plug in the choke, and then adjust the idle screw once the choke opens up.
-
how do you not have spark one post then have it the next, youre going back and forth. make sure you can keep it running on starting fluid before you go any farther. if you can then we can trouble shoot the carb if it wont we can go back to the distributor
-
how do you not have spark one post then have it the next, youre going back and forth. make sure you can keep it running on starting fluid before you go any farther. if you can then we can trouble shoot the carb if it wont we can go back to the distributor
Because i can see the inline tester as the engine runs and stalls.
Turning the distributor by hand with the key on apparently doesn't produces spark because it's not fast enough. (?)
-
you have power/spark with the key in the "start" position but you might now have it when the key is in the "run"
-
you have power/spark with the key in the "start" position but you might now have it when the key is in the "run"
i think i do have power/spark on "run" because i see the inline spark tester showing spark while the engine runs and stalls out. Then engine is now turning 4-5 revolutions before stalling vs. before when it stalled out immediately after starting.
-
DONT THINK, KNOW. if it stays running on starting fluid you know its a fuel problem. if it cuts out its a spark problem
-
UPDATE:
i was able to keep the engine running by repeatedly pumping the throttle. Engine did not run smoothly, of course. But it did continue to run.
What would this tend to indicate?
-
Have you set the timing? Vacuum leak? Firing order correct?
-
What happens when you floor it while starting. Or even holding the pedal at a constant level. If I had to guess it would be fuel related which is why I asked to see if you can keep it running on starting fluid. Maybe a problem with how you hooked up the fuel line/s
-
Keep in mind problems like this are tough to diagnos over the internet.
Irish & Zieg brought up some good points.
I'd pull the number 1 plug wire and bump the motor to TDC ((finger over the plug hole method). With the timing mark at set at 0 degrees is the rotor pointed to the #1 plug? If so, onto Irish's idea.
If you can get it to run smooth for a few seconds on started fluid you will know its in the fuel supply system (filter & lines).
This can all be done quickly, let us know the results.
-
UPDATE:
Finally running----i put the "junk" reman carb that came with the engine back on. It starts and keeps running no problems. Instead of rebuilding the other one, i think i may buy a reman from SMI or JET as i'm very busy.
Thank you everyone for the help.
-
The only things left are to figure something out with the throttle cable, put in an electric fan and have exhaust work done.
P.S. these 4.3's w/out balance shafts shake pretty bad at idle.
-
Glad to hear its running.
I've heard great things about SMI. I think that's $500 +/- well spent on a vehicle your going to keep.
-
I will get that throttle cable off my 86 and in the mail to you Stewart. Sorry for the delay, been super busy. PM me your address again. It will go out Monday.
-
i am going to try to use the v-8 throttle cable with the edlebrock throttle cable bracket that i used on the 305. This is part #8036 The reason why i had to use it on the 305 was that it came from a 78 malibu and they used throttle linkages vs. a cable. Quadrajet throttle brackets would not fit the 305's 2BBL manifold.
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/000_0474_zpsa6wsaqfx.jpg)
The green spring is the v-8 return spring. The red is for v-6. Note how close the carb is to the distributor.
This should work until the stock cable arrives.
-
how bad off are your plug wires?
-
They seem ok, it's the plugs themselves that probably need to be changed.
-
why is there medical tape on one?
-
Oh i was just numbering the wires so as not get them mixed up. Med tape was the only thing i could find handy at that moment. It's not taped up because it was broken or anything. ;D
-
V-6 throttle cable will arrive Wednesday according to USPS estimate
-
lol ok
-
Well, we're moving at least. i did not want to take it out on the street because i'm low on trans fluid, but it does move under it's own power again.
The transmission's shift linkage seems out of whack----P is R, R is neutral, N is drive as so forth. Also, i can't manually shift into 1. Hopefully the pump is not jacked. The only other thing i did was to put in the polyurethane tail mount because the stock one was shot. i'm not sure if that would have caused mis-alignment. This whole drivetrain is going to have to come out soon anyways to check the front pump. Also the strut rod brackets need to come out because they are interfering with the starter front brace.
The battery seems ruined from all that cranking, running down, charging up, running down etc. i didn't think i did THAT much cranking, but apparently it was enough for the battery. i had to borrow a good battery from one of my other cars. The battery charger will not re-charge this battery, i also took it for a fairly long drive in another car and it doesn't seem to recharge although the car never stopped running. However, the battery would not start the car this morning. This was after about a 40 mile drive last night.
So, i'll have to get a new battery and some trans fluid.
-
Also, the v-8 throttle cable and Edlebrock bracket seems to work pretty good. i think a stock setup is better, but i might leave this custom setup on for a while just to see how it goes.
Also, the carb apparently needs the choke; i didn't think i would need it because it's so warm around here now, but it does seem to need it.
-
Yay! Stock cable has arrived. Zieg is the man of the hour.
Probably can't do too much work until the weekend though.
-
v-8 air cleaner housing works with custom throttle bracket----it interfered with the stock v-6 bracket.
i will probably leave the aftermarket bracket on for a while just to see how it works.
-
Get it running and driving and if you decide on getting the correct 4.3L air cleaner housing let me know.
-
If the carb on it now works that's good, I was guessing that the other carb may not have been drained when you parked it waiting for the swap. This new high quality water they give us that poses as gasoline does not weather very good. Use some fuel system cleaner (I have recently learned to love SeaFoam in my seldom used garden tractors). Even the looks of the one in the recent picture you posted looks a little rough. In my experience a carb seldom goes totally bad unless it warped or cracked. Although some carbs where bad when new.
It sounds like a lot of work what you are doing. What was said earlier is so true about getting burnt out on a project, that is the position I am in. I spent SOOOO much time, energy, and money swapping a 454 out for a 355 in my truck and putting in a four speed (along with a hard to find four speed steering column) in place of the automatic and changing the 203 t-case for a 205, that now that it works, I stopped doing anything on it and it sits with a mostly brand new engine that has less than 1000 miles on it and is ten years old now. ??? Sitting is the worst thing that can happen to mechanical stuff. I should have done the body and suspension work first it seems so it would be drivable when I got the engine in. Actually it is drivable now, but with gaping holes in the floorboards and dusty gravel roads it's no fun to. Now the frame is rusting out from under it. I had high hopes to get to it this summer, but that hasn't happened yet with all the other crap this farm needs first. I bought a welder to do the body work over a year ago but haven't had time to do it. Now I believe it would be easier to swich out the cab for one that doesn't need so much done to it. Even my A-pillars have rust holes in them.
I am getting close to hi-jacking...
-
WE are almost there---i had other business i had to attend to over the past week.
You know those clips that go over the throttle arm on the carb to secure the accelerator cable? $9.75 at Advance Auto. i think i'll try the salvage yard instead. Rock auto has them for .21 cents but the shipping is $5.75. i think Dorman may have discontinued them. In my haste to get the truck running, i left mine on the valve cover. Well, these 4.3's shake at idle(big disadvantage compared to the v-8's). Clip gone.
-
Ok, we are basically finally done. i took the truck for a short ride. i can't tell the difference between the 4.3 and a 305 besides the fact that the 4.3 vibrates like heck compared to a v-8 at low rpm. at about 1100 rpm and up it's ok. Remember, these earlier 4.3's don't have the balance shaft.
i think now it's just a matter of tweaking;
i found an throttle arm clip at the salvage yard.
i think i need a new carb regardless. Looking at JET.
For the exhaust, i decided to use the stock y-pipe, Walker pt #40423 and a flex pipe running to a muffler that is chained to the frame. i'll get the exhaust done right at a shop asap.
Special thanks to Zieg 85 for supplying the mounts which really made the swap possible at all. i also ended up using the 4.3 throttle cable, which Zieg also supplied, because somehow i broke the v-8 cable's plastic clip that fits into the pedal at the end. The v-8 cable could probably work though with the edlebrock cable bracket for this swap.
-
Update:
i basically did this diagram for my own reference:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/IMG_0060_zpsyirykvs1.jpg)
Lotsa room:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/IMG_0059_zpsrehtqh2j.jpg)
Notes: i got the Mr. Gasket air cleaner because i needed the truck running fast and they had them at the local parts store, i am planning on getting a K+N when this one plugs.
i really like the flexible braided pump-to-carb line. One advantage to using one is i can run many different carbs with it----if i need to run B.O.P. quadrajets, not a problem. Very easy to disconnect and connect.
UPDATE:
So i basically got the thing running in October and i actually had 3 carbs on it before finally getting the Jeg's reman---which runs well. i actually had a Rochester 2G on there with an adapter and it actually ran pretty good----until it flooded out and i decided since i didn't know the rebuild history on it, that it would be better not to use it. The other two quadrajets i had---the one that came with the engine didn't idle very well and the quad that was original to the truck just didn't idle at all----probably sat around too long. So i decided to try a Jeg's reman.
Other notes:
The v-6 radiator hoses bolt right up to the v-8 radiator. The v-6 mounts were actually pretty easy to put in--- only took a few minutes to drill new holes (3 on each side) in the frame. It's gathering all the other do-dads that is time consuming for this kind of swap. The v-8 power steering lines can be used with the v-6 if you take the frame clip off and pivot the lines towards the engine.
Thanks again to Zieg for supplying the mounts and v-6 throttle cable!
However, i think this engine is hosed---it was making to many strange noises and is recently using coolant---i'm loosing almost half the radiator every 40 miles and i can see steam coming out of the exhaust pipe.
i'm looking for a suitable replacement and may rebuild this one---if it's rebuildable. i may have to run an electric pump as these carbed blocks are not easy to find and may no longer be available from GM? So i may have to run a newer 4.3
-
Dont bother with a K&N filter , they don't filter worth a shoot and its useless on a 4.3, just get a regular round paper air filter.
-
v-8 air cleaner housing works with custom throttle bracket----it interfered with the stock v-6 bracket.
i will probably leave the aftermarket bracket on for a while just to see how it works.
Get an air cleaner with a velocity stack off a 70's or 80's G series Van with a Rochester quad... It's not really a velocity stack. It's a sheet metal spacer ring that raises the air cleaner 2-3" off the carb for cable and hose clearance in the tight G-Van engine compartment.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Air-Cleaner-Spacer-3-Holley-Quadrajet-Ford-GM-OEM-GM-truck-/262392296222?hash=item3d17ccb31e:g:jjIAAOSw3mpXE~Ny&vxp=mtr
-
UPDATE:
i don't know if anyone cares, but stock iron 4.3 v-6 heads fully dressed weigh 43 pounds. Stock iron 305 heads weigh 46 pounds. So the weight savings isn't in the heads. These were called vortec heads but i don't think they are true vortecs? Also, i'm ASSuming most v-8 iron small block heads are going to weigh about the same irregardless of displacement.
i got the heads, pan and timing cover off. No major damage or cracks that i can see so maybe this one can be rebuilt, fingers crossed. But it won't be for a while as i already ordered and received a reman 4.3 from GM, part#12361243. About $1450 no core charge. It does not have provisions for the mechanical fuel pump so i'll have to run an electric.
v-8 air cleaner housing works with custom throttle bracket----it interfered with the stock v-6 bracket.
i will probably leave the aftermarket bracket on for a while just to see how it works.
Get an air cleaner with a velocity stack off a 70's or 80's G series Van with a Rochester quad... It's not really a velocity stack. It's a sheet metal spacer ring that raises the air cleaner 2-3" off the carb for cable and hose clearance in the tight G-Van engine compartment.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Air-Cleaner-Spacer-3-Holley-Quadrajet-Ford-GM-OEM-GM-truck-/262392296222?hash=item3d17ccb31e:g:jjIAAOSw3mpXE~Ny&vxp=mtr
Thanks for the tip.
-
I care, I want to see if the MPG's were worth going to the V-6
-
I've owned an 85 C10 with the LE9 305 4BBL and a 1987 C10 with the LB4 4.3L TBI. Both with the SM465 Low + 3 transmission.
The 4.3L actually got noticeably lower fuel mileage than the 305. I always figured it was because the 4.3 was woefully under-powered in the lower RPMs. There's no replacement for displacement.
-
I've owned an 85 C10 with the LE9 305 4BBL and a 1987 C10 with the LB4 4.3L TBI. Both with the SM465 Low + 3 transmission.
The 4.3L actually got noticeably lower fuel mileage than the 305. I always figured it was because the 4.3 was woefully under-powered in the lower RPMs. There's no replacement for displacement.
The last 4.3 didn't do so well on mpg, getting almost as good as the 305 and 350, but i think it was hosed from the beginning and i should have realized that from the beginning.
The 305 does make a little bit more power and at a lower rpm BUT i think 4.3 and the 305 are basically in the same ballpark in terms of power. The later 4.3's make even more power. The 4.3 is about 125 lbs. lighter and has less rotational and reciprocating mass as well as less friction ( i think?----less bearings, cylinders, lifters). So we'll see.
-
i am getting closer to just going to the dealer and signing on the line. i think most of these reman or new engines were designed to be installed by the dealer for a customer and not really designed for the do-it-yourselfer.
If i was going to do this all over, i would have either bought a crate 350----because then i could have had this truck running in about 8 hours, because i did it before----because everything bolts up, because small block v-8's are so popular. 4.3 just isn't that popular let's face it, and there's a lot of quirks to it to slow you down. >:( Although the mini 4x4 crowd seems to love it. OR gone down to the dealership and gotten me a nice colorado or something with a duramax and then treated the square as more of a hobby. As it is now and has been i use the square as my main transportation, along with my other cars, and for hauling so i need the thing running ASAP.
Anyways,
To do list:
1) Purchase timing cover dowel pins, oil pickup screen, oil primer tool, melonized distributor gear (because this new engine has a roller cam), harmonic damper intallation tool, oil pan gasket, Moroso engine storage bag, oil pickup screen installation tool.
2) Install timing cover dowel pins: Apparently these 4.3 replacement blocks don't come with timing cover dowel pins---i'm theorizing because later 4.3's used the plastic cover which doesn't use the conventional pins? And i can't get the pins out of the junk 350 block so i figured the easiest way is to just buy some new ones.
3) Install previous stock timing cover. Here i couldn't really use any small block timing cover because the 4.3 uses a smaller damper which means the timimg tab is in a different spot than most. Worse comes to worse i could use any small block cover, establish TDC and make or adapt another timing tab but that's too much work.
4) Polish snout of harmonic damper, then Install harmonic damper. BTW this one is not easy to find. It's a 6.25" diameter i think the buick v-6 also uses the same one.
5) press pickup screen into new oil pump. They did include a new oil pump with the engine. Here the pickup is a Melling 55-S2, same as v-8 small blocks.
6) install oil pump.
7) install oil pan. Clean if necessary.
8 Install flexplate
9) Establish TDC for cylinder #1.
There's more, but i think this is realistic goal for now.
-
Unless your 100% debt free, and have cash to buy a new vehicle. Do NOT sign on any line. Debt is dumb and cash is King.
I just had a brand new crate 350 put in, in place of the old worn out 305. The 350 runs real smooth and tight, total stock set up too. I lift up the hood on my square every 3k miles to change oil. Thats it, im so done under the hood. Now i am balancing the dshaft, tuning up the rear end, steering and front susp. Then a little bodywork, paint...done!! All cash, no more credit. I was forced to buy my 350 on credit from Summit, last credit purchase ever!! Dont buy a new colorado!
-
you dont need a "down payment" on a vehicle but for a down payment you could have a nice 350 and be done with the monthly payments
-
??? , ok, your cut off..lol.
-
i have to say that anyone running a small block v-8 truck, or car for that matter is at a tremendous advantage and has a plug and play spare engine(in the crate 350) on the shelf at all times. That shelf may be at Jegs/Summit or the dealer, but it's on A shelf and can be at your door within 2 days.
These crates have the oil pan, valve covers, and timing cover already installed so all you need to do is put the harmonic damper, intake, and flexplate on and you're ready to go. Some v-8 crates also have the damper installed.
v-6's not so much. i think the v-6's are really designed to be installed by the dealer. There's too many odds and ends things that need to be done for the engine to be ready to run. But at the dealer, the tech simply needs to walk over to the parts counter and they have whatever parts are needed in a matter of minutes.
-
i have to say that anyone running a small block v-8 truck, or car for that matter is at a tremendous advantage and has a plug and play spare engine(in the crate 350) on the shelf at all times. That shelf may be at Jegs/Summit or the dealer, but it's on A shelf and can be at your door within 2 days.
These crates have the oil pan, valve covers, and timing cover already installed so all you need to do is put the harmonic damper, intake, and flexplate on and you're ready to go. Some v-8 crates also have the damper installed.
v-6's not so much. i think the v-6's are really designed to be installed by the dealer. There's too many odds and ends things that need to be done for the engine to be ready to run. But at the dealer, the tech simply needs to walk over to the parts counter and they have whatever parts are needed in a matter of minutes.
I respectfully disagree Stewart. The only issue with the V-6 is their popularity. Given the fact the 4.3L was a 2 year run in the square body (non-TBI) is the reason for the parts being harder to find. Try to go to Autozone for a simple valve cover gasket for the in-line 4.1L 6 cylinder, they have to order it. The V-8 small blocks have been around since the 50's and tons of them were used in many applications. The odds and ends wouldn't be needed if you originally had a V-6 truck. I suspect it would be no different if you tried to put an inline 6 in your truck and had to source all the associated brackets and hoses to do it right.
-
??? , ok, your cut off..lol.
which part? ;D
-
i have to say that anyone running a small block v-8 truck, or car for that matter is at a tremendous advantage and has a plug and play spare engine(in the crate 350) on the shelf at all times. That shelf may be at Jegs/Summit or the dealer, but it's on A shelf and can be at your door within 2 days.
These crates have the oil pan, valve covers, and timing cover already installed so all you need to do is put the harmonic damper, intake, and flexplate on and you're ready to go. Some v-8 crates also have the damper installed.
v-6's not so much. i think the v-6's are really designed to be installed by the dealer. There's too many odds and ends things that need to be done for the engine to be ready to run. But at the dealer, the tech simply needs to walk over to the parts counter and they have whatever parts are needed in a matter of minutes.
I respectfully disagree Stewart. The only issue with the V-6 is their popularity. Given the fact the 4.3L was a 2 year run in the square body (non-TBI) is the reason for the parts being harder to find. Try to go to Autozone for a simple valve cover gasket for the in-line 4.1L 6 cylinder, they have to order it. The V-8 small blocks have been around since the 50's and tons of them were used in many applications. The odds and ends wouldn't be needed if you originally had a V-6 truck. I suspect it would be no different if you tried to put an inline 6 in your truck and had to source all the associated brackets and hoses to do it right.
i think what i meant was that the crate 350 and some of the other v-8 crates like the L31, 350 truck engine, part# 12568758 etc. already have the pan, timing cover, valve covers, balancer etc. already installed so that's it's pretty much a drop in deal.
Most 4.3 replacements----don't. For example, yesterday i went to install the oil pump but discovered the nylon coupler thing for the oil pump driveshaft. It took me a while to figure this out because i never installed an oil pump before. i discovered that the proper way to do it is to boil it in water---so that it's loose and plyable, then slip it over the oil pump's shaft, then push the driveshaft in and it will lock together after it cools off. Although you could probably just snap it all together without the water. i decided not to get a shaft with the steel bushing already welded in because this is just a street motor. And this plastic bushing should last for the next 200,000 miles. And of course i had to order a new pump pickup because it wasn't included AND i had to get a pickup installation tool to press it in there which was not easy. The crate 350 already has this installed.
BTW did you know that the 400 has a different oil pump driveshaft than all other small blocks? Yes, i learned this too because of all the research i had to do...........
Well, i will say this----at least i'm learning
i just feel some of these GM replacement motors are more designed for a shop to install rather than the home hobbyist, not saying the hobbyist CAN'T do it at home, it may just take a while longer.
-
To do list:
1) install oil pan. Clean and paint if necessary.
2) Buy melonized distributor gear AC delco part# 10456413
3) Finish polishing snout of harmonic damper. Install harmonic damper. BTW this one is not easy to find. It's a 6.25" diameter i think the buick v-6 also uses the same one.
4) Install flexplate
5) Establish TDC for cylinder #1.
6) Swap distributor gears.
These will be the goals to be completed by next sunday. At this rate the truck will be running by next January. >:( :( :-[
So you can see why, in my case, it may have been better to just buy another truck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQNvxJk-FUs
-
v-8 oil pan = 7lbs.
v-6 oil pan = 5lbs.
-
I'm seriously really thinking about going to CarMax.......
Rear main seal problem:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/1393_2_zpsgcnqztuj.jpg)
The oil pan studs (or if you want to use bolts) for the four corners are supposed to be 5/16" - 18 thread. But they won't fit in the rearmost holes. They will thread like one turn maybe. Should i kind of turn them in there with a wrench..........or..........?
These studs came out of the old engine in the same spot and everything else, research wise, seems to indicate that the studs ARE supposed to be 5/16-18.
-
v-6 iron quadrajet intake = 18.5 lbs.
v-8 2bbl intake = 38 lbs.
v-8 iron quadrajet intake = 44.5 lbs.
-
You have crud in the bolt holes, damaged threads, the stud isn't 5/16"-18 UNC, or the rear main seal carrier was tapped for 5/16"-24 UNF or was even tapped M8-1.25mm rather than 5/16"-18 UNC.
Chase it with a 5/16"-18 UNC bottoming tap. If it cleans up the threads fairly easily douche it out and install the stud. If not... replace the rear main seal carrier. If you have a milling machine or a drill press and files you could drill and tap to 7/16"-20 UNF, install a grade none 7/16" bolt with Loctite 640 or 62040 liquid sleeve locker, mill off flush with the flange, and re-machine for the 5/16"-18 UNC bolt.
-
i tried metric 8mm both 1.0 and 1.25 thread pitch and they were "worse" as far as going in.
i ended up just wrenching 'em in there, the 5/16"s. Because my theory is:
a) the studs aren't intended to move or come out anyways.
b) And they probably machined the threads in the hole a little "tighter" for that very reason.
c) If they strip and get stuck in there, it's sort of ok because they're not intended to come out anyways.
d) i did take these studs out of the old engine's rear main seal and as far as i know all small blocks and 90 deg v-6's before and after 86 use 5/16" -18 pitch threads for the oil pan studs. If i can recall correctly they did have some above average resistance when i screwed them out of the old engine.
As it turned out, they didn't strip or cross thread as far as i know and they aren't moving. i did put a very little amount of blue loctite on them.
So i guess it's all good.
-
Oil pan installed.
Oil filter adapter cleaned and transferred from old engine. BTW 4.3's have a very different oil filter adapter than v-8s and use a different filter. i have no idea why as the filter ends up in the exact same spot as a v-8.
Harmonic balancer installed and lower pulley installed.
Flexplate installed
Engine put in TDC for cylinder #1.
FAILED ON:
Buying and switching distributor gears. i didn't get around to it.
i did however, clean the intake manifold. However, i could not install it because no one carries the intake gaskets for older 4.3's. i will have to order it.
To be completed by next sunday, revised 6/16:
1) inspect clean or replace water pump bolts
2) Buy melonized distributor gear, intake gaskets, new distributor roll pin (old one broke), both correct oil sensors.
3) buy new stock ac/delco water pump
4) install new water pump using bolt sealant on all four bolts
5) inspect/clean intake bolts, install intake
6) swap distributor gears
7) figure out and correctly install oil sensors both near the distributor AND near oil filter
8 trim strut rod bracket on passenger side so as to create room for starter front brace.
9) research proper break-in procedure including break in oil.
http://paceperformance.com/p-3978-engine-start-up-procedure.html
10) install spark plugs
-
Oil gauge sender or warning lamp switch is behind the distributor. Choke and electric fuel pump oil pressure switch is above the oil filter.
Just like Pace says break her in on decent quality 10W30 or 10W40 Dinosaur Squeezins not Synthetics. I usually put a heifer magnet or Hard disc magnet or two on the outside of the filter to trap small iron particles. I also cut open the filters to make sure there's nothing nasty.
-
Oil gauge sender or warning lamp switch is behind the distributor. Choke and electric fuel pump oil pressure switch is above the oil filter.
Just like Pace says break her in on decent quality 10W30 or 10W40 Dinosaur Squeezins not Synthetics. I usually put a heifer magnet or Hard disc magnet or two on the outside of the filter to trap small iron particles. I also cut open the filters to make sure there's nothing nasty.
Do you know if the one above the oil filter uses a reducer bushing....or? i'm pretty sure the 2-prong one goes there but the hole is too big on the 4.3, and my 305 and 350. i don't remember how it worked in the 305 and 350.
-
Oil gauge sender or warning lamp switch is behind the distributor. Choke and electric fuel pump oil pressure switch is above the oil filter.
Just like Pace says break her in on decent quality 10W30 or 10W40 Dinosaur Squeezins not Synthetics. I usually put a heifer magnet or Hard disc magnet or two on the outside of the filter to trap small iron particles. I also cut open the filters to make sure there's nothing nasty.
OK, nevermind----the 2 prong near the filter is 1/4" and the single prong near the distributor is 1/8". i think there was a mix up with the old 4.3----a 1/8" two prong ended up near the distributor because that's what they may have switched to in 86?
-
Update 6/19:
--Installed water pump. Remembered i had one from the 305 which was only 2.5 years old so decided to use that plus the old gaskets came off real easy. One of the ribs did have to be clearanced because the 4.3's pulley was rubbing; i used a dremel for that. i think the newer "vortec" engines use pulleys with multiple belts plus the ribbed belt which makes them "longer" than older pulleys?
-- i did recieve the new melonized distributor gear from jegs, but could not install it because i could not find a roll pin (the old one broke)
---i had to go into the city to get intake gaskets---because no one carries old style 4.3 intake gaskets. Only one store in the whole area had them. Did not get around to installing the intake. Felpro # MS 93040
--- didn't trim strut rod bracket because i have no hole in the new engine block to attach a front starter brace. (?)
I DID, however, install the engine into the truck because i figure i can do all the little odds and ends stuff while it is in the truck and let's do the hardest stuff first. 4.3's are a little easier to install in cars than v-8's i think.
To be completed by next Sunday:
1) Get and install oil filter to seal bottom of engine and regular 10W-30 oil for break in.
2) Find and order both oil senders and distributor roll pin.
3) Inspect and clean intake bolts. Install intake.
4) Change distributor gears and install distributor so as to have a reference for TDC cylinder one (torque converter bolts have to be fastened)
Also, The last two weeks, i had a very strong hankering for a newer (92 and newer) style tahoe.....served up at the local CarMax. Then i saw the prices and decided a TrailBlazer or Colorado would be more "appetizing." Now that the engine is physically in the truck, my appetite for a new(er) truck has gone away. But i really was considering doing it. You have to be really devoted to the 4.3 to run one. Otherwise i would just recommend sticking with a v-8 small block. It's much simpler, faster, cheaper etc.
-
v-8 iron exhaust manifold (truck) 11 lbs.
v-6 iron exhaust manifold 6.5 lbs.
-
If you had to do it again would you go with a 350 or the 4.3?
-
If you had to do it again would you go with a 350 or the 4.3?
i would have definitely went with a crate 350. The truck would have already been running a long time ago. i DO NOT recommend to anyone swaping to 4.3 from 8 cylinders, UNLESS you have another truck and are treating this as a hobby.
For a repower situation, which this is, the crate 350 is such a wonderful thing. i don't think there really is a "crate" 4.3 at least not in the earlier style like i'm running. Maybe the newer LU3's and L35's 4.3's with balance shafts i think may come with valve covers, timing cover, oil pan etc. And i will probably discover that eventually.
i think you have to be really hard-core to run a 4.3. Now, of course those guys running mini 4X4's or miatas or fiat spyders etc. sort of have to run 4.3's vs. v-8s.
Now that it's in the truck it's all downhill from now and i will continue to run them as far as gas engines go.
-
If you had to do it again would you go with a 350 or the 4.3?
The other thing i've been lately wondering about is let's say you have, for example, an 84 cutlass with and olds 307. It's time for an engine replacement, but you either don't have the time or inclination to rebuild the engine or maybe the engine CAN'T be rebuilt. What do you do now? As far as i now GM does not sell a crate or reman 307.
-
260 or 350 Olds engine, same block
-
260 or 350 Olds engine, same block
But besides the junkyard or craigs, which is risky, where can you get a 260 or 350 olds engine? Yes, jasper but their reputation is suffering.
-
http://remanufactured.com/Oldsmobile_engines.htm for starters just Googled it
-
In the 80's and early 90s' GM used the 307Y in a bunch of Cadillac, Buick, Pontiac, and Chevy vehicles not just Oldsmobile. The 307Y is as common as the 305 but IMHO the 307 is a better motor... just like the 305 Chevy vs the 350 the seller will tell you they're sure it's a 350 Olds not the 307Y or if you're lucky the 307HO
-
The 307 may have had thicker cylinder walls than the 305.......anyways........
Installed intake. Vinegar does a pretty good job at cleaning bolts. Took off all the old sealant.
Installed oil sending unit. Couldn't install the 2 prong unit near the oil filter due to interference----another block difference between v-8's and v-6's.
Single prong unit near distributor is Borg Warner part # 397S
Changed distributor gear to melonized gear to be compatable with the roller cam. But did not get around to installing it in engine.
Installed oil filter and filled engine with conventional oil for break in. v-6's use a different filter (smaller diameter) than v-8's. Not sure why.
To be completed by next Sunday 7/3:
1) Make bracket for elec fuel pump. i will probably use the existing holes in the frame from the v-8 frame perch position which are now unused.
2) Order electric fuel pump. i'm going to go with the facet dura-lift: seems like the easiest way.
http://www.facet-purolator.com/dura-lift-pumps.php
3) Order fuel pump relay and wiring.
4) Wire fuel pump correctly using relay even though they say that pump doesn't need one.
5) Exhaust manifold gaskets and install exhaust.
-
---made and installed bracket for elec fuel pump. Will provide pics when the pump is installed.
----ordered fuel pump
FAILED:
Did not get around to ordering fuel pump relay and did not install exhaust gaskets or manifolds due to problem with distributor; i discovered that i forgot to put in the spacer washer that goes above the gear. So i tried to take the roll pin back out and had big difficulty. So i decided to get and use a press. This made removing and installing the roll pin very easy.
i got this press from horror freight:
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-arbor-press-3552.html
$47.95 with the 25% 4th of July coupon.
Works good.
To be completed by next Sunday 7/10:
1) Research, order and install proper adapter for oil sensor near oil filter; The oil filter area on v-6's is slightly different than 8's and you cannot simply plug a regular oil sender due to interference. Need a 45 or 90 degree elbow adapter.
2) install and wire electric fuel pump.
3) install torque converter bolts and ground wire to head.
-
---installed exhaust manifolds with new gaskets using anti-seize on the bolts.
---installed 2 prong oil sender unit near oil filter using pipe fitting adapter----Edelmann # 220440----basically a straight 1/4" male npt to 1/4" female adapter. i had to do this because the head of the sender was interfering with the oil filter mounting pad----another minor difference between v-6 and v-8.
--- torque converter bolts to 30-35lbs. i think they are 3/8" but a 15mm seemed to fit better?
---installed power steering bracket to engine.
Failed:
Didn't get around to installing pump because it hasn't arrived yet.
To be completed by next Sunday 7/16:
Spark plugs
1) Exhaust Y pipe bolts and springs to exhaust manifolds.
2) Starter
3) Alternator bracket and alternator
4) carb
5) ground wire to head
6) install electric pump
-
Attached Exhaust Y pipe bolts and springs to exhaust manifolds. Lots of bugs at night, but there is no other time to do it.
-
Installed starter with heat shield
Mounted electric pump using custom bracket, but did not wire it----want to install more components to see where i can route the wires.
Installed P/S pump and brackets and belt.
Failed:
alternator
carb
ground wire to head
To be completed by next Sunday 7/24:
1) Research and order fittings for fuel pump
2) Fully connect pump to be operational
3) Alternator and brackets
4) carb
5) ground wire to head, temp gauge wire to sender
-
Plumbed and wired fuel pump (will provide pics asap)
Installed alternator/bracket and belt
Filled radiator
All hoses hooked up
carb installed
temp sender wire connected
ground wire to head
primed engine using the primer tool and drill. Took longer than i would have thought, but eventually some oil did seep out of exhaust cyl #1 pushrod and #3 intake pushrod at least.
Bought valve cover gaskets at Advance auto (Felpro)
Just didn't have enough time to start it up. We're almost there.
-
Finally running.
Feels exactly same as the one replaced, even with roller lifters. These are not powerhouses. If i wanted power i would have went with a 350, 383 or big block.
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/sencraig/IMG_1415_zpskwnlxmgu.jpg)
Anyways, fuel pump works well. More quiet than i thought. Used the existing v-8 mount holes in frame for the bracket. i used two Simpson strong tie brackets i got at Home Depot, riveted them together and drilled 4 holes. Yes, i know i need to work on the wiring, but i needed the truck running ASAP.
On top Russell # 660450 1/8" NPT to -6A/N male
Edelmann # 831260 1/8" NPT to 3/8" hose barb on bottom.
Installation was very easy----just hooked the existing 3/8" rubber hose line from the steel fuel line to the 90 degree hose barb fitting. Did not have to cut or modify anything. -6A/N to the custom fuel line to carb. Ground easy. Power direct from the fuse box when key is on w/ 7amp fuse. This pump only draws 1.5 to 3 amps so it's ok although i will eventually use a relay.
-
(i'm mainly putting down notes here so i don't lose them!)
Truck runs really well at highway speeds. i think all my other engines were tired. i'm sold on roller lifters in SBCs.
Installing the distributor was pretty much identical to v-8 small blocks. i'm thinking the procedure is pretty much the same for all engines at least in theory.
Truck really can't be driven further until i install the fan; Had a close call today in the morning as there was an accident on the OPPOSITE side of the highway, but of course everyone on my side HAD to look, thus got stuck for a few mins in crawling traffic. It got hotter than normal but i don't think overheated.
To do list:
1) Order fan
2) Install fan
3) re-do fuel pump wiring properly
4) recheck P/S pump hardware
5) seal EGR using gasket and/or permatex black magic
6) tidy up/ separate plug wires better
7) research carb----still not quite right as far as idle etc. Also, jets (.73) may be too big?
8 Choke wiring
-
So im resurrecting your thread since you commented on mine and i finally found yours.
What gears does the truck have that the 4.3l went into?, if you read my reply on my thread, i have 4.10s, and the 6.2l with 3.08 or even 3.42's got alot of complaints as underpowered, but its pulls fine with my 4.10's
If the engine didnt have the rice under the valve cover, and you had left the TBI intact, and gotten the harness and ECM with it, would your swap have gone much faster?
-
The truck has 2.56 gears which is one of the reasons why i'm convinced it can get 18, close to 19mpg.
i don't remember what motivated me to take the right side valve cover off! But i'm glad i did! i'm pretty sure what happened is, i do keep non-perishable foods in the garage---probably not a good idea. A jar of rice, that i rarely if ever cook, with plastic cover and i think the mice/rats got into it and deposited it into the oil fill tube.
The first 4.3, which i got from a private owner did not have TBI---it had the carb. i think at the time if i had the TBI, the swap would have taken longer than carb. Now, that i've discovered low pressure lift pumps and sump setups, an EFI setup would probably be as fast as a carb to setup.
If you really want a 4.3 i can help you, as you can see, but i don't think you should make that decision right now. Will discuss more why in the other thread.
-
i just noticed 14,000 views on this thread?!?! Is this swap really that popular?
-
i just noticed 14,000 views on this thread?!?! Is this swap really that popular?
I think most folks are curious as to the outcome. Fuel economy is important to many. For me I want to be proved wrong in my thought process
-
also each time you log on and view it the counter counts that.