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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Members Rides => Topic started by: English on April 22, 2015, 05:21:06 am

Title: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on April 22, 2015, 05:21:06 am
Soooo, let me start a build thread. Or, a "finishing touches" thread, as the hard work's been done already.
This is my second Chevy truck. The first was a 1982 K5, that was never more than a cat's whisker away from the scrap yard. This one's a bit nicer.

Imported from Arizona in 2013, there's a sad story attached to this truck. Apparently it was a father and son restoration project, but the father passed away, and the son, not wanting to keep the truck anymore but not wanting to see anyone else drive it either, sold it to someone who'd take it far away.

So it was shipped across the Atlantic, and spent a year living in a warehouse, before the owner decided he wasn't using it enough to justify keeping it, and sold it to me.

The specs-
1979 K10 in Scottsdale trim
350ci
3+L manual gearbox
4.10 rear end
Warn manual front hubs (I believe this was standard for the K10? It's a popular conversion for the K5)
8ft bed
keep-fit windows and no central locking
air-con (working!)


The mods-
slightly lifted (I can see the blocks at the back, but not sure about the front)
33/10.50/15 tyres (apologies, I'm English!)
Hooker headers
Dual 2.5" Flowmasters with H-pipe
73-78 front grille
tinted side windows

Also I'm pretty sure it's got all new body panels as there's virtually no rust, and minimal swirling marks on the paint. When she's clean she nearly looks like a new vehicle!

Some pics-

(http://i62.tinypic.com/k1yv7m.jpg)

(http://i61.tinypic.com/33xhpgn.jpg)

(http://i57.tinypic.com/2u94ciw.jpg)

This is how I bought her last year. There's been a few changes since then...




Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Engineer on April 22, 2015, 07:18:05 am
Awesome.

How close are you to East Anglia? If I ever make my pilgrimage to Jolly Ole England to tour the old 8th Air Force bomber bases can I borrow it? ;)

Just kidding. And yes Arizona trucks are usually original because they don't have winter roads that need treated with corrosive snow removal chemicals.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: illinoisk30 on April 22, 2015, 07:18:15 pm
Welcome from Northern Illinois. Your truck looks very nice. Western trucks are always the best to restore. I am not picking on your truck but in 1979 GM went to headlight bezels that enclosed the parking light/turn signal. No one would probably know but us square body nerds. This would also be the first year that the VIN identification would be located in the left front dash on top near the window. Keep us posted on your build.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Irish_Alley on April 22, 2015, 10:39:59 pm
i bet it turns a lot of heads being an american truck and how big it is. do you have a lot of them around where you live?
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on April 23, 2015, 03:32:19 am
Welcome from Northern Illinois. Your truck looks very nice. Western trucks are always the best to restore. I am not picking on your truck but in 1979 GM went to headlight bezels that enclosed the parking light/turn signal. No one would probably know but us square body nerds. This would also be the first year that the VIN identification would be located in the left front dash on top near the window. Keep us posted on your build.

Ah, sorry, when I said converted grille I meant the whole thing, including headlight surrounds.
I decoded the VIN when I bought it and I'm pretty sure it's a '79
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on April 23, 2015, 03:43:35 am
Regarding it being an Arizona truck- that was it's last place of abode but I'm not sure if it spent it's whole life there. I don't have much service history with it but one of the receipts is from Washington state.

Would be good if I could trace the PO so he can see it's gone to a good home. Does the father/son story ring any bells?
I have the Arizona registration plate, also the truck has a custom pinstripe with the Fox Racing logo, so that should narrow it down a bit.

Yeah it turns heads alright, and no there's not many here at all.

I spent six months on a contract in East Anglia. It was a two hundred mile drive to work. Right now that would cost £65 ($98) in the truck. And the same again to come home!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on April 24, 2015, 01:25:12 am
So... the truck is no longer living in a warehouse, but outside in our famous English weather. Time to take some preventative action!
Took her to a workshop to get in waxoyled underneath, and they also did the cavity wax as well.

(http://i61.tinypic.com/2m64g10.jpg)
Steam cleaning

(http://i59.tinypic.com/wa2fxe.jpg)

(http://i60.tinypic.com/atlsia.jpg)
Cavity wax

(http://i61.tinypic.com/k0lifn.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/30dkwug.jpg)
Waxoyl

It's the sheet metal I was interested in protecting (and the guy did a top job), but it was a nightmare trying to take pictures of the inside of the wheel arches. Will get some better pics soon.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Engineer on April 24, 2015, 07:22:52 am
Is the waxoyl necessary to stop rust and corrosion? Tell us more about it.

We have some companies that offer rust prevention in the U.S. but it isn't very popular anymore now that the auto manufacturers use galvanized body panels.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on April 30, 2015, 04:42:36 am
Yeah Waxoyl is for rust prevention. I wanted to get it done as soon as possible. It's for prevention only, doesn't work if you've got rust already!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on April 30, 2015, 04:51:11 am
With the Waxoyl out of the way, it's time to make some changes-

Sidesteps and mudflaps removed
10.50 tyres swapped out for 33/12.50/15 BFGs on Cragar 15x10s
For some reason the side windows were tinted but the rear one wasn't. I've changed that around so the rear window's tinted and the sides are standard.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on May 19, 2015, 10:32:00 am
Next step- change the carb.

The truck had come with the performance "upgrade" (ahem) of a Holley 750 carb and a two inch carb spacer.
Out with that, and in with a Holley 570 and no spacer.
Not as simple an install as I'd expected, as it also has an Edelbrock intake, with the vacuum port that clashes with Holley carbs.
And the throttle bracket was set up to allow for the carb spacer, which meant that it clashed with the air cleaner when the spacer was removed. D'oh!

Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on May 19, 2015, 10:39:53 am
Moving on to the interior...

My speedo and odo didn't work. I'm not fussed about the speedo, but the odometer needs to work for my insurance (it's on a classic vehicle policy, which has restricted mileage.)

Disconnected the speedo cable at both ends, and found that the cable still turned.
Tried turning the part where the cable connects to the speedo, and it looked like the speedo was working too.
Had another look at the transfer case, and realised that there was an adaptor plugged in. So I took it off and screwed the cable directly to the transfer case instead. Bingo, problem solved! I know that my speedo is out (it has 33" tyres) but that's not an issue for me, I just need the odo to work.

But the best bit about working on the speedo was the discovery that the clear plastic that covers the dials wasn't faded through UV damage, but just really dirty. Cleaned it up and now the instrument gauges look good as new!  8)
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on May 19, 2015, 11:08:45 am
(http://i58.tinypic.com/15yhmyc.jpg)

yeah, nice bench seat huh? The one part of a Chevy truck that wasn't "Built Tough"

Booked the truck into a retrim specialist. They normally do Mercedes and Porsche, and even do work for the McLaren factory. I wasn't sure if I was in the right place, but they assured me they had "different pricing structures"- i.e. McLaren pays through the nose, but normal people get a better rate.

After spending aaaaaaaaaaaages agonising over how to do the seat, I went for a very hardwearing grey tweed, with black vinyl for the sides and rear.
To keep it looking factory standard, they followed the flutes of the original, the only difference being deleting the centre vinyl panel. Even the buttons are the original buttons, recovered in the new material  8)

(http://i57.tinypic.com/fmkxfb.jpg)

(http://i57.tinypic.com/nmztc4.jpg)

(http://i57.tinypic.com/24qtu1x.jpg)

The photo doesn't do it justice, the seat now looks AMAZING. The only trouble is, now the seatbelts look crap!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 19, 2015, 02:01:03 pm
That seat looks FREAKING GREAT!!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Engineer on May 19, 2015, 10:15:23 pm
If you ever want to send that thing back to the colonies.........

Just sayin'. ;)



Keep the work going. Looking good. I'm sure the original owner would be pleased with your passion.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Jakethesnake73 on May 19, 2015, 10:44:58 pm
Get the bracket on the seat painted black, also ive always like that style seat belt with the dual spools, anyway black would look good on those as well. Id leave the rest of the interior blue as its not attached to the black and grey seat.   This truck is awesome and its got to be even cooler in the uk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on May 21, 2015, 10:54:59 am
Thanks for the kind words. Just wait till I get some decent photos! It seems like a strange thing to get excited about but that seat... OMG...

Regarding the brackets- no way man, I love the blue against the black!

The dual spool seatbelts are pretty cool, I was worried I'd have to lose them (the belts are frayed, only just get through the safety check here) as the only replacements I can find are the "regular" type, but I've since learnt that it's possible to re-web them. Phew!

And yes, it is double awesome for being in a country with so few American vehicles  8)
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: blazer74 on May 21, 2015, 09:51:07 pm
Enjoying this, nice job on the seat.
Contemplating doing my rear seat in the K5 myself. Inspiring.


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Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: BBM3 on May 22, 2015, 07:09:28 pm
Blasphemy.

All C/K's must have horse blanket seat covers, open filter chrome top air cleaners, and chrome rocker covers.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Jakethesnake73 on May 22, 2015, 09:38:33 pm

Blasphemy.

All C/K's must have horse blanket seat covers, open filter chrome top air cleaners, and chrome rocker covers.
haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 22, 2015, 09:43:17 pm
Blasphemy.

All C/K's must have horse blanket seat covers, open filter chrome top air cleaners, and chrome rocker covers.
Sadly this is true, as my truck used to have all 3, now only the blank seat cover remains.  This is because my seat is in good condition for its age and I want it to stay that way. Also chrome leaks and I don't like leaks, there for I don't like chrome on my engine.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on June 23, 2015, 01:51:42 am
Finally getting round to taking some photos...

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3688/18799917289_ffd514218a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uDhuqZ)K10 (https://flic.kr/p/uDhuqZ) by Olivers Travels (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52506515@N00/), on Flickr
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on June 23, 2015, 01:54:52 am
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/332/18363197554_1bf6d92a07_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tYGbSo)Tony's (https://flic.kr/p/tYGbSo) by Olivers Travels (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52506515@N00/), on Flickr

With my old man's Celica.
This is the garage that's looked after our family's cars since I was a nipper, a ramshackle old hut in the middle of the countryside. The guy's just retired, he's been there since 1970. Gonna have to find somewhere new now!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: enaberif on June 23, 2015, 08:43:09 am
Blasphemy.

All C/K's must have horse blanket seat covers, open filter chrome top air cleaners, and chrome rocker covers.
Sadly this is true, as my truck used to have all 3, now only the blank seat cover remains.  This is because my seat is in good condition for its age and I want it to stay that way. Also chrome leaks and I don't like leaks, there for I don't like chrome on my engine.

Mine are chrome and don't leak :D
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 23, 2015, 09:54:56 am
Lucky, I gave up on chrome long time ago, now I only use it on stuff that doesn't have to hold a fluid. Lol

Nice pics English.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Engineer on June 23, 2015, 09:58:12 pm
Haha, a nipper. Now there is a term I haven't heard in the States in many moons.

Oh, and, moar pics! 8)
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Don5 on June 23, 2015, 11:05:58 pm
I bet that bad boy does turn the heads. The seat looks really good. Like everyone says - more pics! :)
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: RAD77C10 on June 24, 2015, 12:26:01 am
Taking that nice truck into London would turn alot of Heads!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Don5 on June 24, 2015, 12:04:17 pm
You don't know this I bet but you really need to find or have someone make you a brushguard for the front of that truck. These trucks were made to have a brushguard on the front bumper. Put a set of driving lights on it and then you will have arrived friend!  ;D

Nothing says "do not pull out in front of me " like a brushguard. All of the little cars will tremble at the mere sight of it. The crotchrocket crowd will think "Nope. Nada. No way. That looks like it will hurt. Nope. Not going to pull out in front or cut this guy off." You will be amazed when people start giving you some room out on the road or in town. Just a thought. That is of course if it is legal to put one on your bumper over there.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 24, 2015, 01:42:06 pm
You don't know this I bet but you really need to find or have someone make you a brushguard for the front of that truck. These trucks were made to have a brushguard on the front bumper. Put a set of driving lights on it and then you will have arrived friend!  ;D

Nothing says "do not pull out in front of me " like a brushguard. All of the little cars will tremble at the mere sight of it. The crotchrocket crowd will think "Nope. Nada. No way. That looks like it will hurt. Nope. Not going to pull out in front or cut this guy off." You will be amazed when people start giving you some room out on the road or in town. Just a thought. That is of course if it is legal to put one on your bumper over there.
This is so true. I used to have one on my truck. During the day, they could see the guard and would stay or get out of the way. At night, my cab lights being on had the same affect. I took the guard off long time ago but I still have the lights.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on August 21, 2015, 01:35:06 pm
Few more photos-

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/765/20521172008_7cd55c6360_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xgonuu)K10 (https://flic.kr/p/xgonuu) by Olivers Travels (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52506515@N00/), on Flickr

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/563/20088208993_9f8d5a17b4_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/wB8jEV)K10 (https://flic.kr/p/wB8jEV) by Olivers Travels (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52506515@N00/), on Flickr

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/604/20522390749_87b6ee840c_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xguBMg)K10 (https://flic.kr/p/xguBMg) by Olivers Travels (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52506515@N00/), on Flickr

Click on the link and view full-size, yeeeeeeeah!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 21, 2015, 02:12:28 pm
Few more photos-

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/765/20521172008_7cd55c6360_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xgonuu)K10 (https://flic.kr/p/xgonuu) by Olivers Travels (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52506515@N00/), on Flickr

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/563/20088208993_9f8d5a17b4_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/wB8jEV)K10 (https://flic.kr/p/wB8jEV) by Olivers Travels (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52506515@N00/), on Flickr

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/604/20522390749_87b6ee840c_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xguBMg)K10 (https://flic.kr/p/xguBMg) by Olivers Travels (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52506515@N00/), on Flickr

Click on the link and view full-size, yeeeeeeeah!
Now these pics here are my favorite.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Irish_Alley on August 21, 2015, 02:55:24 pm
must say i wouldnt think thats the same truck. idk if its a different quality of a picture but those last pictures my jaw dropped
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Don5 on August 21, 2015, 10:27:46 pm
Yeah it looks really good. Those are some good pics of a clean looking truck. I think it still needs a brushguard on the front bumper though.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Engineer on August 23, 2015, 06:10:30 pm
If you ever tour the colonies let me know and I'll give you one of my extra OEM grills from a '79 that has the factory Bow-Tie.

Shipping it to the UK would be cost prohibitive.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: FlatBlack77 on August 23, 2015, 07:04:11 pm
very nice!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on August 25, 2015, 01:49:59 pm
must say i wouldnt think thats the same truck. idk if its a different quality of a picture but those last pictures my jaw dropped

Haha, yes it's definitely the same truck, if you look carefully you'll see it has the same dent in the rear quarter  :-[
Amazing what a difference a few subtle changes make though.

Took the photos with a slightly better camera, and after a whole lot of cleaning. Needed to get some decent photos for the insurance company, as I have an agreed value policy for it.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on August 25, 2015, 01:51:22 pm
Yeah it looks really good. Those are some good pics of a clean looking truck. I think it still needs a brushguard on the front bumper though.

Would love to get some bumper over-riders for it, but I haven't got a clue where to find them! Both   and ebay come up blank.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on August 25, 2015, 01:53:59 pm
If you ever tour the colonies let me know and I'll give you one of my extra OEM grills from a '79 that has the factory Bow-Tie.

Shipping it to the UK would be cost prohibitive.

Came to the colonies last year, and loved it! Managed to bring a few parts back too. Not sure if a new grille would fit in my hand luggage though...
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Don5 on August 25, 2015, 05:05:00 pm
Yeah it looks really good. Those are some good pics of a clean looking truck. I think it still needs a brushguard on the front bumper though.

Would love to get some bumper over-riders for it, but I haven't got a clue where to find them! Both   and ebay come up blank.

These are getting hard to find I guess anymore so just make one or have it made. Make a pattern out of cardboard or posterboard. Once you get it right take it to a metal Fab shop and have it cut out of 1/4 inch aluminum. Then have them weld the tabs where the bumper bolts go. You can use some heavy wall aluminum conduit for cross braces. Then put some polish on it and shine it up. Check out youtube videos for what they look like for ideas.

Trace the contour of your bumper, include a 90 degree tab where the bolts are and then come out about 6 to 12 inches from the top of the bumper. From that point angle the front back to the top of your pattern and angle the bottom back to the bottom of the bumper. Make sure you allow enough to have a pipe welded into the top and bottom for strength. If you want the headlight guards have those bent into a c shape and welded to flat stock. Then just bolt them to the brushguard. A good fab shop should be able to make one pretty easy just by looking at a picture of one. And it might be cheaper than buying one all ready made and shipping it over to you. I would have it made out of aluminum just because you can really shine that up and it would look really good on your truck. You can have it made out of steel also too. Whatever you want to make it out of.  :) I would also have the shop weld some tabs on the back of the center bar to mount lights and your license plate.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: roundhouse on August 25, 2015, 10:21:23 pm

If you ever tour the colonies let me know and I'll give you one of my extra OEM grills from a '79 that has the factory Bow-Tie.

Shipping it to the UK would be cost prohibitive.

Came to the colonies last year, and loved it! Managed to bring a few parts back too. Not sure if a new grille would fit in my hand luggage though...
If I had one.  I'd carve out the bow tie section and mail it

We went to England and Wales in '04 and it was wonderful

abergaveny and mine head were my favorite places

Nice truck !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on September 02, 2015, 05:37:37 am
A slightly better shot of the new seat-

(http://i58.tinypic.com/30ude2x.jpg)



Check out the fancy gear shifters!
(http://i62.tinypic.com/21lr1hv.jpg)

Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: LTZ C20 on September 02, 2015, 09:55:12 am
That seat is really nice.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Don5 on September 02, 2015, 01:31:00 pm
I like this truck. Nice seat, nice shifter handle too. But it still needs a brush guard to protect itself against the occasional rabid prius. Just sayin..

Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: BBM3 on September 02, 2015, 04:37:50 pm
Looks like you have proper amber rear turn signal lenses in what was the white reverse lamp position.
Did you rewire the reverse lamps to be turn signals? If so where are your reverse lamps?
Also, I don't see a red rear fog lamp.

Great looking truck!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on October 10, 2015, 07:45:58 am
Apologies for the late reply!

Regarding the rear lights, whenever cars are imported to the UK they have to be modified to comply with legal requirements, and the rules are different depending on the age of the car. The work needs to be carried out before the car goes on the public highway.

This being a '79 model, it is required to have amber indicators, so the reverse lights have been converted to indicators. This age of vehicle does not require reversing lights or a rear fog light, so it has none. Which is how I like it. I used to have an '83 K5, which had a gawd awful fog light hanging off the rear bumper. Not a good look!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: BBM3 on October 10, 2015, 06:07:13 pm
I am familiar with the EU requirements.
In the past I converted new US vehicles for export to Europe including full compliance witness testing and certification.
I am not familiar with exemptions for older vehicles.
I'm guessing your truck is exempt for seat belts and anchorages, glass, mirrors, occupant and pedestrian protection, and a thousand +  other requirements that your truck if new would never pass.
Even the tires projecting beyond the bodywork would fail.

It is so cool to see your truck in Europe and taking two spaces in the car park is hilarious.
If I were driving a city car anywhere near you I would pull over and run away until you passed.

I would love a solid, restorable TR6, Spitfire, MGB, or Midget if not for the fact that they have become so expensive and hard to find here.

Your truck looks great!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on October 11, 2015, 02:48:59 am
Did you work in the UK then? You probably know more about it than I do. I only know about bits relevant to cars I've owned myself. I think the foglight thing is for pre 1980; reversing lights aren't actually a requirement for ANY private vehicle, and to keep American style flashing red indicators the vehicle needs to be pre '66 (ish).

Yeah Spitfires and such like aren't cheap here either, but probably easier to get parts for!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: BBM3 on October 11, 2015, 10:59:00 pm
Most of my work was done in the US.
I did travel to Europe and South America and spent a lot of my time working with EU certification agencies.
Unfortunately I never made a trip to the UK mainly because the vehicles we were converting had the steering wheel on the left side.
I lived on an island for a couple of years that is a British protectorate driving a left hand drive vehicle as you do with your truck in GB.
It certainly requires extra attention particularly in roundabouts.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on December 16, 2015, 12:53:42 pm
Latest photo, think I'm a bit late for Halloween...

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/582/23167391523_f51bc7c761_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/BidWmT)Evil Eye (https://flic.kr/p/BidWmT) by Olivers Travels (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52506515@N00/), on Flickr
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: BBM3 on December 16, 2015, 02:39:50 pm
That is a cool picture.
Either you had the shutter open a long time or the vehicle passing by was really flying.
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: English on December 17, 2015, 01:37:39 am
Yeah it was about 30 seconds. I was annoyed when the car drove past, but it's actually turned out to be a lucky shot!
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: Foxblood on December 27, 2015, 02:50:13 am
cool truck, i like the color. it's nice to see an american truck abroad
Title: Re: '79 K10 in the UK
Post by: impco lpg on December 27, 2015, 04:09:57 am
yeah its a nice looking  truck man keep up the good work, you got pics of the engine bay ?
i did mine with waxoyl  15ltrs in all but well worth it.  :)