Post by: philo_beddoe on October 17, 2015, 10:15:27 pm
Post by: 85ckaz on October 18, 2015, 01:57:52 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on October 19, 2015, 08:06:55 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on October 20, 2015, 07:32:44 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on October 20, 2015, 07:37:16 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on October 22, 2015, 10:15:28 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on October 27, 2015, 05:26:14 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on October 27, 2015, 05:29:21 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on October 28, 2015, 09:50:29 am
Post by: Irish_Alley on October 28, 2015, 10:41:51 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on October 28, 2015, 08:39:12 pm
Post by: Captkaos on October 28, 2015, 09:02:15 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on October 28, 2015, 09:30:08 pm
Post by: Irish_Alley on October 28, 2015, 09:36:07 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on October 28, 2015, 09:52:02 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on November 24, 2015, 03:39:57 pm
Oh, and actually there are quite a bit of posts on this topic.
Post by: philo_beddoe on December 03, 2015, 12:26:12 pm
Post by: Greybeard on December 23, 2015, 11:31:16 am
Post by: Greybeard on December 23, 2015, 11:46:05 am
New tires and factory rims, but i'll check the weights anyway. It is not "shuddering" like a bad unbalanced wheel, more of a steady vibrate, hardly pulsating i guess, seems to smooth out near 60 mph. I tried to move driveshaft, tight as a drum.
If this started soon after you got those new tires then it's likely them causing the issue. New tires are poorly built these days, out of round will cause pulsing even if perfectly balanced. Tread squirm will cause it too somewhat. Even tread pattern (most likely) will cause it. Try overinflating them a LITTLE and see if changes the pulsating feel. Most folks make the mistake of running full sidewall pressure in their tires. But do the math, a tire that is intended to carry 1750lbs can carry 1750 by itself at full sidewall pressure, that would be for a truck weight of 1750lbs x 4. Does your truck weigh 7000lbs? Then why do you need 7000lbs of tire capacity? If you go by the pressure on the door jam you are most likely still wrong. That pressure is for the exact same tire that came on the truck. If the brand/diameter/width/ply rating is different, there is a good chance the needed pressure will be different too.
Post by: philo_beddoe on December 23, 2015, 04:35:13 pm
Post by: Greybeard on December 24, 2015, 03:56:05 pm
Years ago when I had my first GMC (a '78 I bought after it rolled in 1980 and I got for a song) it was used for river running a lot so it did not have any sound deadening, carpet, or floor covering of any type. I also removed the headliner for more head room during bouncing around in the cab (I didn't have seat belts in it and didn't even know what they were for) LOL.
After I got the 39/15-15's Tall Baja's by Micky-T's put on, the truck droned and pulsed intensely at highway speeds. It was like a surround sound dull bass throbbing feel. Really gave me a headache on long trips (like when I moved from St.Louis MO to Vail Colorado pulling a trailer), I was zombiefied when I stopped for gas every two-three hours. Unfortunately, it was always part of the truck. All that bare sheetmetal got to vibrating in unison. Not to mention I only had a eight track tape player in the truck with one tape...Bad Company-Bad Company....Over and over and over and OVER! UGH! The pain of that trip will never end!
Post by: philo_beddoe on December 26, 2015, 07:04:08 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on December 27, 2015, 12:54:22 pm
Oh well, see post "another ques. on timing" all is good.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 05, 2016, 03:25:11 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 05, 2016, 03:30:56 pm
https://vimeo.com/150836368 (https://vimeo.com/150836368)
I'm updating this post, because on second thought I don't think it's the balancer at all. Under load, going up a hill or just plain accelerating, I feel a vibrate/shudder coming from engine, because in park I can hit the gas and feel it also. It is not tranny/dr shaft or rear end. Almost like a mis-fire, could this be a fouled plug(s)?
What confuses me is, at idle it is very smooth.
Post by: Greybeard on January 06, 2016, 02:22:33 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 06, 2016, 04:25:06 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 06, 2016, 05:26:05 pm
Is this my problem? It certainly feels like it.
The engine is tuned right as far as i can tell, if not the balancer, then back to the drawing board.
Post by: Irish_Alley on January 06, 2016, 05:41:18 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 06, 2016, 09:36:57 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 07, 2016, 07:17:05 am
Post by: Greybeard on January 07, 2016, 09:14:08 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 07, 2016, 09:49:52 pm
It is possible your balancer slipped. How old is your distributor? The bushings may be getting bad and throwing the timing off.
You could try putting a few hose clamps on the driveshaft. Line them up so the tighteners are in a row. What your doing is adding a balancing weight. Then test drive and see if it's better or worse. Move them and try again. If you get rid of the vibration, your shaft needs to be balanced. Takes a while to mess with but it works.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 07, 2016, 09:59:01 pm
The vib is fast, not skippy or hesitant, it is present even in park or neutral. It follows engine revs. The dist, plugs and wires are new. Egine idles smooth, vib is present when you rev in neutral or accelerating of course. It really feels like something is not balanced. Its at my mechanics now, should know something tomorrow. If i had a heated garage, i'd have her all to peices by now.
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 07, 2016, 11:15:01 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 08, 2016, 06:52:23 am
Thanks and will do!!
Post by: bd on January 08, 2016, 08:53:22 am
Post by: Rattler12 on January 08, 2016, 09:38:08 am
Post by: zieg85 on January 08, 2016, 09:39:49 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 08, 2016, 09:40:01 am
Post by: zieg85 on January 08, 2016, 09:42:21 am
Update: transmission mounts shot! Will this cause it, does this make sense?
yes it would, yes it does make perfect sense
Post by: zieg85 on January 08, 2016, 09:44:15 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 08, 2016, 11:27:07 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 08, 2016, 11:36:06 am
Assuming by the Park/Neutral comment you have an automatic......Flex plate has a crack/cracks in it between one or more of the holes in the crank mounting surface......under power it wobbles, not it doesn't.....you can thank me later..... :)
Will check!! And bd i'll keep an eye on those wires. We put new wires, plugs and dist. cap back in oct. Will triple check firing order but as mentioned, she idles real smooth.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 08, 2016, 04:45:06 pm
Assuming by the Park/Neutral comment you have an automatic......Flex plate has a crack/cracks in it between one or more of the holes in the crank mounting surface......under power it wobbles, not it doesn't.....you can thank me later..... :)
Well it wasnt the tranny mount. Could be that flex plate/flywheel. I could swear it is starting to sound like a helicopter! Getting discouraged and depressed!! My engine mounts arent that great, but there is some rubber there. Idk...
Post by: zieg85 on January 08, 2016, 05:35:12 pm
Assuming by the Park/Neutral comment you have an automatic......Flex plate has a crack/cracks in it between one or more of the holes in the crank mounting surface......under power it wobbles, not it doesn't.....you can thank me later..... :)
Well it wasnt the tranny mount. Could be that flex plate/flywheel. I could swear it is starting to sound like a helicopter! Getting discouraged and depressed!! My engine mounts arent that great, but there is some rubber there. Idk...
Just drive that jewel down to the St. Louis area and I will give it a good home...
I have been chasing a vibration myself. They are frustrating but I know what isn't causing the problem...
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 08, 2016, 05:41:53 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 09, 2016, 06:31:26 am
Also, can someone send me a pic of what the right mount looks like for my vehicle? Never bought before.
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 09, 2016, 02:31:48 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 09, 2016, 02:39:32 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 09, 2016, 02:41:22 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 09, 2016, 02:51:05 pm
Post by: Irish_Alley on January 09, 2016, 03:02:11 pm
Post by: Greybeard on January 09, 2016, 11:50:25 pm
something else to think about is unbolting the torque converter and sliding it back a little. this will isolate just the engine. most times if a mout is back if you pop the hood and try to power brake the engine will raise up, these clam shell mount will limit the amount the engine can move but you should be able to have a helper help out and take note on how much they do move around
I had a knocking noise in the original 454 that was in my current truck. It had an automatic in it so I did that trick of taking the converter bolts out and moving it away from the engine. Still knocked. Had four different reasonably good home brewed mechanics go over that engine with a stethoscope but none of us could determine what was causing that knock. We could not even isolate where it was coming from. So I sold the engine to the speed shop that built my current SB. When he took it apart he could find nothing that was obviously wrong. :o His best guess was that the thrust bearing was too thin allowing the crank to migrate forwards and backwards. That's all the diagnosing that he did however. Otherwise that engine ran really good.
Post by: Greybeard on January 10, 2016, 12:01:07 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 10, 2016, 07:39:31 am
I'll be paying close attention to it next couple days, only going to work and back and i can go slow and take the back roads. I will address those ideas mentioned. Thanks!
Very discouraging!!
Post by: bd on January 10, 2016, 09:10:54 am
...There is no noise or knocking at all. It seems ... to sound like a helicopter....
Huh? ???
Post by: zieg85 on January 10, 2016, 09:24:27 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 10, 2016, 12:26:43 pm
I know, should have stated no knocking or metal type noise. Y'all know what i mean.
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 10, 2016, 12:27:55 pm
Have you thought of oil sampling the engine oil? About 20-25 bucks. I don't care for the portable or bench units. Send sample to a lab. Most heavy truck dealerships or CAT dealers have the sample kits.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 10, 2016, 12:29:47 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 10, 2016, 12:30:13 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 10, 2016, 03:55:33 pm
Post by: zieg85 on January 10, 2016, 04:15:25 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 10, 2016, 09:17:30 pm
Does it really flex?
Post by: Greybeard on January 10, 2016, 11:56:50 pm
I don't mean any offense here but you said you are going to take out the tranny but you don't know what a pinion is? There is a disconnect here. Taking out an automatic tranny is not a job for the un-initiated. It's not all that hard as I will assume you know, but it does take doing things in a very careful manner. Most auto tranny's weigh as much if not more than a sm465 manual and that tranny is a beast! At least when a NP205 t-case is still attached and a young fool expects to remove it all by himself...only forgets to remove the tranny shifter. :-[ So this young fool lays there on his back with 300lbs of metal sitting on his chest while his younger brother sits in a lawn chair drinking a beer and laughing his arse off. Yup, true story. To say I learned at the university of hard knocks is an understatement.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 11, 2016, 07:30:09 am
Anyway, got to work this morning. Went slow took back roads. If all roads were downhill i'd be fine.
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 12, 2016, 01:47:48 pm
Post by: Jim_Hensley on January 12, 2016, 05:00:13 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 12, 2016, 08:07:19 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 12, 2016, 08:08:24 pm
Post by: zieg85 on January 12, 2016, 08:10:09 pm
I have a bad feeling it aint the the motor mounts though. Gonna change anyway.
Please do my suggestion, your transmission may be the culprit
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 12, 2016, 08:11:20 pm
Post by: zieg85 on January 12, 2016, 09:53:58 pm
Seriously, that may be the case zeig.
The TH400 in my truck is about to grenade and vibrates like how you are talking. It is rpm related rather than a certain speed. Mine vibrates worse roughly 45 mph, toss it in neutral and the engine goes to idle and it is fine. I have yet to take loose the transmission torque converter to try my theory but mine whines bad and makes a whirling noise that comes to a stop after I put it in park.
Post by: Greybeard on January 13, 2016, 12:20:03 am
From front to back it has to be in the rotating mass right? Forward most part is the fan, then the sheaves, then the damper, crank, cam, cam chain (not necessarily in that order), the piston rods and pistons, the flex plate, the trans input shaft, the converter, and the trans oil pump and associated gears. Did I miss anything, working on four hours sleep each for past three days. Only one of those items is vibrating when in park. That means something is out of balance, if there is no discernible noise that goes along with the vibrations and no engine misses, it has to be something outside the engine. Something that won't/doesn't make noise. That leaves two possibilities, the damper and fan clutch. Maybe a third, a bad oil pump in the tranny. I've never heard of that but I seldom drove a truck with an automatic tranny in it. So as Zeig says- isolation is key. Come to think of it, the flex plate is not a balanced unit but is universal for all small blocks I believe, a big block has external balancing however. Regardless, pull the inspection cover, unbolt the converter bolts, pry/slide the converter back about 1/2" and start the truck. Just be easy with the throttle it's a free turning beast now and revs much easier. It will show you in a moment just how much power is wasted by an automatic trans.
And on a different tack..
If it turns out to be a faulty plug or loose plug wire I'll laugh all day! BTW- If the plugs in it are new and they happen to be Champions, check each one (outside the engine) for spark and/or change them to another brand. Check the gap too, to wide and it will run fine at low rpm's but the big gap has too much resistance to let the spark jump at higher rpms (causing a miss and vibration). To small of gap and again it will run fine at low rpms (idle) but as the fuel ramps up the spark is too quick to ignite it (not enough duration, or dwell as it's called, the resistance is so low it goes pop and it's over or it gets quenched by the incoming turbulence). If only one spark plug is bad it can drive you crazy.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 13, 2016, 01:14:38 pm
I can remember a month or two ago, it was just a pulsating vibration i would feel at about 40-50 mph.
Tomorrow a tranny shop is going to take a look. Hopefully some good news in 24 hours from this post.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 13, 2016, 01:18:28 pm
Mine is very similiar zieg, i also have a th400, and even a slight whirl or whine is present, very slight.Seriously, that may be the case zeig.
The TH400 in my truck is about to grenade and vibrates like how you are talking. It is rpm related rather than a certain speed. Mine vibrates worse roughly 45 mph, toss it in neutral and the engine goes to idle and it is fine. I have yet to take loose the transmission torque converter to try my theory but mine whines bad and makes a whirling noise that comes to a stop after I put it in park.
Post by: Greybeard on January 13, 2016, 06:35:24 pm
Post by: egleaves on January 13, 2016, 08:11:37 pm
I just had to have mine replaced (both ends of one piece shaft). The truck would shake pretty bad under acceleration, but at no other time. Speed or RPM made no difference.
Post by: Rattler12 on January 14, 2016, 11:00:54 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 14, 2016, 07:17:31 pm
Post by: Greybeard on January 14, 2016, 10:55:09 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 15, 2016, 10:33:44 am
Post by: zieg85 on January 15, 2016, 11:20:01 am
Ok, flexplate it is. Breaking news!! The tranny guy who is an old timer, which is good, is near 100% that i have a crack in flexplate, which is also causing my trans fluid leak... bad bushings. Stay tuned!
Hope he's right, pictures please if it is. I am very interested. "Usually" a crack in the flexplate will sound like an engine knock under certain conditions and if bad enough the starter will sound funny when it is cranking...
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 15, 2016, 12:11:41 pm
I'm trying not to get exited, but i cant help it.
Post by: zieg85 on January 15, 2016, 12:33:57 pm
If indeed it is the flexplate, i'm going to frame it and display. Yes i will post detailed pictures and anything else. Stay tuned!
I'm trying not to get exited, but i cant help it.
I would too!!! It gives me hope of a fairly inexpensive fix or at least a bandage for my truck to get it mobile...
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 15, 2016, 10:03:14 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 15, 2016, 10:34:56 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 17, 2016, 01:34:29 pm
Post by: zieg85 on January 17, 2016, 01:45:50 pm
Post by: Irish_Alley on January 17, 2016, 02:27:10 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 17, 2016, 06:03:16 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 17, 2016, 07:20:41 pm
Post by: Greybeard on January 17, 2016, 07:26:28 pm
My present problem with it is the cost of the lift kit, man have they skyrocketed! Nowadays one spring can be bought for about what I paid for my entire lift package plus the labor to install it back in 86. I am so far behind the times I get sticker shock too easy. Then I just say no way am I gonna pay that! But what choice is there? Rock..me....hard place.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 19, 2016, 02:07:50 pm
I hope I explained this right, and someone out there can understand it. Unfortunately, I don't have a one solid reason for the vibration such as a cracked flexplate. there were some uneven wear marks on the flexplate, however. the crankshaft was tight on both ends. May get truck tomorrow, and will know more then. Stay tuned. PB.
Post by: Greybeard on January 19, 2016, 02:27:36 pm
Post by: zieg85 on January 19, 2016, 02:46:04 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 19, 2016, 10:33:55 pm
Post by: Rattler12 on January 20, 2016, 09:14:27 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 20, 2016, 09:23:00 am
Post by: Peter S on January 20, 2016, 10:58:31 am
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 20, 2016, 12:26:04 pm
Post by: Greybeard on January 20, 2016, 08:51:21 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 20, 2016, 10:14:01 pm
If this dont straighten out the vibration, then the balancer and motor mounts. And if that aint it, i'll be gone for a while.
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 21, 2016, 01:32:52 pm
And if that aint it, i'll be gone for a while.
To the bar? ;D LOL Lets hope it's fixed
Post by: Greybeard on January 21, 2016, 07:57:08 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 22, 2016, 08:00:33 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 22, 2016, 08:13:52 am
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160122/44e7747a827da222c365cd1b2fef63c1.jpg)
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 22, 2016, 08:50:12 am
http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/302
Post by: zieg85 on January 22, 2016, 09:09:06 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 22, 2016, 02:32:13 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 23, 2016, 11:40:21 am
Post by: Greybeard on January 23, 2016, 02:02:08 pm
You say it happens when in park but only when rapidly accelerating it? That sounds to me like a miss. Like the fly weights in the distributor are binding or not moving smoothly. If the vib goes away at a high idle (maybe 3grand steady) and only happens when adding fuel that would be the thing I would look at.
If the vib is not present at idle it is likely not the t-converter, that would vibrate at any engine speed. However, since the harmonic balancer is rubber isolated from the crank it would not make much impact at idle but would get progressively worse as the engine speed increased (think of a seriously out of balance tire moving at 5mph as opposed to 55 mph). An out of phase harmonic balancer will destroy an engine pretty quickly. I think the simple test to see is in an earlier post (timing light).
Motor mounts will not cause or contribute to a vibration in the engine, they will only conduct what is already there. Find and fix the cause of the vib before spending money on mounts unless they are obviously trashed.
Check the fan itself, I don't remember that being mentioned yet, it should have five blades IIRC and they should be staggered not uniform around the circumference. If it has a replacement fan you are on your own. But a bent fan will cause a vibration. I bent one the very first time I went river running because I neglected to loosen the fan belts. But I had a direct drive fan at that time too (no thermal clutch). It hit my radiator but did not puncture it although it made some hellish noises. Lesson learned. Deep water and direct drive fans with tight belts do not mix.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 23, 2016, 04:47:12 pm
Post by: Greybeard on January 23, 2016, 05:36:46 pm
Are you certain you got all the valve train tightened down correctly? A valve not opening or closing completely will cause a vibration too I believe. Not closing would cause a popping or sucking sound but not opening an intake would simply create a weak firing cylinder. Make certain all the retainers stayed in place.
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 23, 2016, 10:47:17 pm
No bars! What if i laid down on a creeper under there, like keanu reeves in "speed" under the bus??
Pictures (preferably video) or it didn't happen! LOL
Post by: Captain Swampy on January 23, 2016, 10:53:22 pm
Post by: Greybeard on January 24, 2016, 12:32:42 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 25, 2016, 10:54:30 am
Question, are those flex plates balanced like a rim,,,with weights?
Post by: VileZambonie on January 25, 2016, 11:56:10 am
After your preliminary checks, the first thing you should have done was performed a cylinder power balance test. Would have saved you a lot of aggravation and helped you pinpoint the problem quickly.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 25, 2016, 09:16:15 pm
Vile, your pretty savy with these trucks, but i think this one might even stump you. (Or maybe im just using reverse psychology to get you to invite me over to fix this cursed problem).
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 25, 2016, 09:26:05 pm
I'm gonna try to reread this whole thing and put my thinking cap on. :o I wish I could come over and look at it.
Capt. Swampy..I would LOVE for you and any of the "usual suspects" on this forum to take a crack at this. If i were wealthy, i would fly some of you out here and we would have a 77 Chevy diagnostics party.
I would pay the first guy who nailed this thing a thick stack of cash!!
If it aint the balancer then its got to be some thing internal, and im not paying much more than 200 bucks to end this madness.
I'll let the block crack itself open and burn first. Then get a new 350 crate engine!
I am honstly getting steamed as i type this.
Post by: Rattler12 on January 25, 2016, 10:48:56 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 26, 2016, 07:47:35 am
Actually now that i remember, i did unhook all belts and ran engine, still shudders/vibrates.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 26, 2016, 05:01:07 pm
Anyway,,,,so why didnt it shudder before?!!! I never noticed it before!!!! I'm not convinced.
I cant believe i have to drive around with this problem until i can save up enough for a new crate engine. I never thought it would come to this.
Post by: zieg85 on January 26, 2016, 05:21:04 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 26, 2016, 05:26:17 pm
Post by: zieg85 on January 26, 2016, 05:40:37 pm
Was the engine ever ran with the torque converter disconnected?
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 26, 2016, 05:47:05 pm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160126/11912eaf83d402c630182ae70f40ac3c.jpg)
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 26, 2016, 05:51:03 pm
Post by: zieg85 on January 26, 2016, 05:51:24 pm
Post by: zieg85 on January 26, 2016, 05:53:10 pm
Post by: zieg85 on January 26, 2016, 05:54:25 pm
is where I got the block info from
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 26, 2016, 06:02:55 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 26, 2016, 06:03:19 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 26, 2016, 06:08:16 pm
Post by: zieg85 on January 26, 2016, 06:10:43 pm
DNL, i guess it is a 305 right?
DNL is a 1979 305... Looks like your mechanic may not know everything so you have a prayer
yes as said already
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 26, 2016, 06:10:46 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 26, 2016, 06:16:45 pm
Post by: zieg85 on January 26, 2016, 06:32:28 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 26, 2016, 06:46:28 pm
Post by: zieg85 on January 26, 2016, 07:05:40 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 26, 2016, 10:20:11 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 27, 2016, 07:37:02 am
Could this have some effect??
Post by: zieg85 on January 27, 2016, 07:41:53 am
Heh, my memory just got zapped a little,,,,,,a month ago when i started noticing the engine wasnt running very smooth, i remember when i had the valve seals done, they put on a new dist cap and set the timing to 8 btdc, which i thought was a bit low or retarded. So i decided to just mess with it a little and i loosened dist hold down clamp and turned it to the right thinking i was advancing a little. And now i see i retarded even more and shortly after thats when i noticed things much worse.
Could this have some effect??
ah, yes... I would now suspect a faulty cap and or wires... A vintage Sun Machine with the scope would be great right about now
Post by: Rattler12 on January 27, 2016, 09:25:40 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 27, 2016, 10:31:23 am
BTW, I turned the dist without disconnecting the vac advance hose. Not sure if that matters or not.
Tonight i will advance the timing properly and see what happens.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 27, 2016, 04:04:58 pm
Post by: VileZambonie on January 27, 2016, 07:05:10 pm
Ok i'll ask,,,whats a cylinder power balance test?
Vile, your pretty savy with these trucks, but i think this one might even stump you. (Or maybe im just using reverse psychology to get you to invite me over to fix this cursed problem).
Yer funny.
Post by: Greybeard on January 27, 2016, 08:31:47 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 27, 2016, 09:18:01 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 27, 2016, 09:34:15 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on January 27, 2016, 11:55:04 pm
Post by: blazer74 on January 28, 2016, 12:46:18 am
Sure sounds like a miss under load from your descriptions.
Have you eliminated plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter?
Post by: Peter S on January 28, 2016, 08:10:20 am
Possible you have a weak or cracked valve spring, considering this started shortly after the valve seal change.
Sure sounds like a miss under load from your descriptions.
Have you eliminated plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter?
In reply #66 he states that it happens in park or in neutral so there is no load.
Post by: Peter S on January 28, 2016, 08:32:14 am
When we rebuild my son's 350 we found that his balancer had this exact issue. In his case it was very obvious because the outer ring had a considerable wobble which we spotted just by turning the motor over with the starter.
Post by: VileZambonie on January 28, 2016, 08:32:25 am
Vile, all joking aside, three experienced mechanics have failed to identify the problem. I have nowhere else to go, except more mechanics. Know any really good ones in our area, especially with classic chevy engines?
You're talking to him
Post by: blazer74 on January 28, 2016, 08:49:39 am
Post by: blazer74 on January 28, 2016, 08:53:49 am
It is my feeling that the harmonic balancer can go bad with age. The outer ring is held in place by rubber which can deteriorate/swell with age and by exposure to heat, oil/chemicals. As this rubber deteriorates the outer ring may shift throwing off the balance.
When we rebuild my son's 350 we found that his balancer had this exact issue. In his case it was very obvious because the outer ring had a considerable wobble which we spotted just by turning the motor over with the starter.
Yes I've had the dampener fail on TBird before. In my case it was not driveable tho.
Post by: Greybeard on January 28, 2016, 01:08:20 pm
Possible you have a weak or cracked valve spring, considering this started shortly after the valve seal change.
Sure sounds like a miss under load from your descriptions.
Have you eliminated plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter?
In reply #66 he states that it happens in park or in neutral so there is no load.
This is true, but only under acceleration. The fluid and spinning weight in the tranny is the load, as small as it is.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 28, 2016, 03:56:51 pm
Just letting it idle at normal temp in park she runs very smooth, i keep trying to force myself to think its a bad plug/wire, but it just runs to smooth at idle.
I did just notice the smell from tailpipe seemed weird. I had just shut the engine off and was washing salt off the tires and noticed it.
Someone mentioned fuel filter,,how could it be that? Could it?
Oh yeah, when going down the road at say 50 mph, the constant shudder goes away. Then,,,you just hear and feel the hummm-smooth-hummm-smooth-hummmm. About every second it goes from shudder to smooth.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 28, 2016, 05:49:57 pm
Vile, all joking aside, three experienced mechanics have failed to identify the problem. I have nowhere else to go, except more mechanics. Know any really good ones in our area, especially with classic chevy engines?
You're talking to him
Ok then, your hired! Im 10 min up the road. I'm comin over saturday with a suitcase full of cash. If you cant figure it out i wont tell anyone, promise.
Can you give me 1/2 hour?
Post by: Greybeard on January 28, 2016, 09:19:58 pm
But that's not it. If it only happened while moving I would say it's a broken belt in a tire. But since it happens in park/neutral sitting still that can't be it either. If it's not between the fan and the tranny oil pump it isn't. Without pictures it isn't happening.... ;)
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 28, 2016, 09:58:29 pm
Philo, just bring it on down to American Chevrolet, I'll go on a road test with you first to identify the vibration and then we'll get it fixed up for you in the shop. Haha
On my way bro.....!!!
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 28, 2016, 10:03:36 pm
Possible you have a weak or cracked valve spring, considering this started shortly after the valve seal change.
Sure sounds like a miss under load from your descriptions.
Have you eliminated plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter?
I will be checking every spk plg wire on friday and also cap and rotor,,just for the fun of it. I did check every plug, all are still clean since i put in when they did the valve seals last fall.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 29, 2016, 12:22:55 pm
When slightly pressing pedal to about 1500-2000 rpm you start to hear/feel the shudder, you can even hear inconsistency coming out the exhaust. If you mentally block the "problem" out of your mind and just listen to the engine, it really is a great smooth well tuned engine. I'm no high tech mechanic like many on this forum, but I've been operating and hearing these engines since the late 70's, you just know.
The culprit is in there somewhere and I'm gonna find it. I've done some heavy research in the area and found what seems to be a compassionate really good mechanic who was in no hurry to hear me out. Dropping vehicle off Monday morning. Who knows, could actually STILL be the flexplate/t.converter.
Unless Vile calls first. :P
Post by: Irish_Alley on January 29, 2016, 02:28:36 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 29, 2016, 03:55:34 pm
Post by: Irish_Alley on January 29, 2016, 05:11:25 pm
Post by: VileZambonie on January 29, 2016, 05:56:03 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 29, 2016, 05:58:28 pm
Post by: VileZambonie on January 29, 2016, 06:11:50 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 30, 2016, 12:32:33 pm
Stay tuned for updates.
- philo
Post by: zieg85 on January 30, 2016, 03:58:05 pm
Post by: bd on January 30, 2016, 04:19:59 pm
Post by: VileZambonie on January 30, 2016, 05:44:10 pm
We were talking about how it would be nice if more of us were able to get together in person.
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 30, 2016, 09:17:45 pm
Yes, it would be great if even a few of us could get together, even every few years. Even better if we could have our trucks with us, but that would be difficult. Maybe someday...
Post by: Greybeard on January 30, 2016, 11:41:56 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on January 31, 2016, 06:40:39 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 01, 2016, 10:17:07 pm
Stay tuned for updates...
- philo
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 02, 2016, 05:34:00 pm
Stay tuned for updates,,
- philo
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 02, 2016, 05:48:45 pm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160202/5344ee475b7bc0ada634a80f2d2d694e.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160202/d8b7964836ccbf61bfd164389b8fd142.jpg)
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 02, 2016, 05:54:18 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 02, 2016, 06:04:30 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 02, 2016, 08:44:51 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 02, 2016, 10:10:19 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 03, 2016, 12:53:31 am
Post by: blazer74 on February 03, 2016, 01:16:25 am
Well, my truck is once again in the care of VileZambonie. I admit I was a little nervous dropping it off and leaving it. Felt like I was dropping my kid off at camp for the summer. Anyway, I guess he's getting a little deeper into the engine. My hopes are at their highest, if anyone on earth can figure out this curse, he can.No pressure there.
Stay tuned for updates...
- philo
Post by: VileZambonie on February 03, 2016, 10:24:27 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 03, 2016, 11:26:29 am
Will anxiety go up or down??
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 03, 2016, 11:44:49 am
DUHN DUHN DUHN DUHN....
Duhn Duhn Duhn Duhn....
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 03, 2016, 11:47:04 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 03, 2016, 11:49:07 am
Post by: zieg85 on February 03, 2016, 12:24:00 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 03, 2016, 12:45:33 pm
You COULD establish a forum "fund to help pay for philo's truck". Now yer talkin...
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 03, 2016, 12:48:44 pm
http://youtu.be/t6Hp2WANepc
Post by: VileZambonie on February 03, 2016, 01:51:36 pm
Adjusted the timing and the carburetor. Timing was late, changed port settings.
Adjusted the valves – extremely loose, 5 and 6 were too tight, a lot of noise from valve train, rechecked after road test and checked valve lift. Most are below spec and uneven which means the camshaft is worn.
Hooked up oscilloscope and went through the ignition system, check power balance. Checked compression in each cylinder average 118-125psi. Checked the lower end, you have excessive crankshaft end play, rear main is leaking badly and a there is a light main bearing knock. The vibration is coming from the crankshaft and you are feeling it resonate through the whole truck and drivetrain. The main reason you feel it worse through the body is because your exhaust is nearly rigid to the frame. Rubber isolation should help you feel it less but it will not make the problem go away.
My recommendation is to drive it, keep an eye on the oil level and save up some coin, drop a 350 in its place and live happily ever after. Overall it is a nice truck and as long as you keep the salt off it that thing will give you many years to come. We can talk about building or buying another engine if you want and the transplant but in the interim she’s ready to be picked up. Let me know when you want to come and get it and I’ll have someone that you can see for the keys if I’m not around or if you are coming tonight.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 03, 2016, 02:20:20 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 03, 2016, 02:31:46 pm
Post by: VileZambonie on February 03, 2016, 02:38:23 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 03, 2016, 02:43:43 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 03, 2016, 02:45:13 pm
Will you be there?
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 03, 2016, 03:00:49 pm
https://chevroletperformanceparts.com/p/10067353-350ci260hp-new-1973-85-most-models
Post by: gunrac on February 03, 2016, 03:41:08 pm
http://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Performance/GM-Goodwrench-350ci-260HP-Engine-Packages/752506/10002/-1
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 03, 2016, 05:21:30 pm
Post by: gunrac on February 03, 2016, 07:13:44 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on February 03, 2016, 09:02:06 pm
This has vortec heads and a roller cam. Vortec heads are the best flowing stock head available. Roller cams can have much better valve timing. The flat tappet cams would destroy the lobes if they ran the same specs. Roller lifters allow quicker opening and closing of the valve. Someone else can probably explain better than me.
The cheapest I found this engine is $1979 on Amazon.
I'm really happy you got to the bottom of this. It's really cool of Vile to help you 8)
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 03, 2016, 09:50:51 pm
Vile has been the driving force through this problem. He's the only one that put a stop to it and figured it out. Now that i've reached bottom i can start rebuilding. Might take a while to save up 2k, trying not to put on credit.
This thread is going to continue for quite sometime, will keep updating though.
- philo
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 03, 2016, 10:08:35 pm
Post by: Greybeard on February 04, 2016, 11:58:25 am
And by living near Vile, questions and assistance with choosing parts or with help on assembly might make life easier.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 04, 2016, 01:13:46 pm
Anyway, we have decided to go with a brand new chevy crate 350. New water pump, clutch fan, distributor, balancer, ect. I dont want performance, just reliable and long lasting. I am going to baby the engine for now and save up for the new engine. Or as Vile puts it, unless she gives up the ghost. Amen.
Stay tuned for the next segment.....
THE ROAD TO REDEMPTION
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160204/21c7812294424b32b4fb452d46540ae3.jpg)
Post by: Greybeard on February 04, 2016, 08:38:22 pm
I considered going that route, instead I built a build sheet of the needs, wants, wished I could haves. I wanted good amounts of RPM, I wanted good high end horsepower, I also wanted low end torque, all on 87 octane. Today that is highly doable with roller cams and the like. Ten years ago those items were as expensive as unobtainium. So I settled on roller rockers, Rhoads lifters, a .5xx cam, TRW forged flattop pistons, shot-peened, stress-relieved, lightened and finely balanced rods and a polished, straightened, oil grooved crank. Half those things I know nothing about but my engine machinist suggested that they would come in handy at the RPM's I wanted. My engine purrs at 7000. Maybe I should say purred...I haven't started it in a year now. I haven't put 3,000 miles on it in ten years though.
But like an old buckskinning partner used to say, wants cost more than needs.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 04, 2016, 09:54:48 pm
Post by: Greybeard on February 06, 2016, 03:24:46 pm
Anyway... there is an old-timer (in his mid seventies) near me that likely has forgotten more about Chevy's than I've learned that putters around his shop working on the old stuff. Trouble is, he is a cogety old bamtard, hard to talk to without a LOT of patience. He's one of those guys that knows everyone else is wrong even before they open their mouths, even if he agrees with you. :o Kinda like a wife.
Post by: VileZambonie on February 06, 2016, 05:49:57 pm
When I was 16 and bought my first truck I fell in love. I've never stopped playing with these trucks ever since and I have built, modified, restored, etc many of them. In addition I am engrained into the automotive industry in many facets and a tech savvy do it yourselfer who enjoys learning everything. Just like you with your degree (and congrats BTW) I am still working towards my Masters degree, for what I am not sure as I doubt it will yield me any financial gains but at least I can say I have it at some point.
Philo-Beddoe, before you 100% decide on a crate, I think I have a line on a nice Vortec 350, good rebuildable unit. A few things would have to be changed but it would give you a roller cam engine with one piece rear main. The only physical noticeable difference would be the valve covers and intake manifold for the most part. They do sell center bolt valve cover adapters though so you could retain perimeter style VC's. Can even paint it original Chevy Blue.... Keep dreamin and schemin
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 06, 2016, 06:27:52 pm
At 16 I got my truck and fell in love also. That truck is responsible for my square body addiction. I know a few people who still know the old stuff best. I've tried to learn as much as I can from them as well as as much as I can about the newer stuff.
Post by: Greybeard on February 06, 2016, 10:24:28 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 06, 2016, 10:42:55 pm
Remember, i'm old school, real old.
I wont have to do this to my truck will i?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160207/630f458bf28ca577e382a80affb3663c.jpg)
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 07, 2016, 12:23:54 am
To use a carburated intake manifold, you have to either A: use an intake designed for the 8 count intake bolt vortec heads or B: swap the cylinder heads for an older version that still use 12 bolt intakes or C: buy heads that are designed with flow and chamber characteristics like vortec heads but allow older intakes.
Honestly I think the easiest and cheapest thing to do is just buy a carburated intake manifold for vortec style heads. Traditional small block intakes use 12 bolts, vortec intakes use 8 bolts.
I have a Vortec block with roller cam and dart aluminum heads with a traditional 12 bolt intake. I very much like the roller cam over my previous flat tappet cam engine. Intakes however, I could care less. What I have now is reliable and powerful. Vortec engines are very reliable tho. My 97 Silverado has one.
Post by: Captain Swampy on February 07, 2016, 11:18:48 am
If Vile found a nice used one, hopefully you could freshen it up cheaper than buying a crate engine.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 07, 2016, 12:19:56 pm
This cost a tad over $1400.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160207/a84acba83bcfada5fad67578fdfd3486.jpg)
The vortec deal has to beat that. Oh, and summit racing has a 18 month no interest deal.
Post by: zieg85 on February 07, 2016, 12:26:57 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 07, 2016, 12:30:07 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 07, 2016, 12:32:37 pm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160207/9ae62201d5ec86b7383476719b1d4d76.jpg)
Boy was i way off.....
Post by: zieg85 on February 07, 2016, 01:58:10 pm
I guess that dont look too bad. Are those acorns i see on the intake?
yes, lots of varmints and oak trees at my Indiana home
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 07, 2016, 02:54:23 pm
Post by: Irish_Alley on February 07, 2016, 03:05:52 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 07, 2016, 03:14:09 pm
Post by: Irish_Alley on February 07, 2016, 03:18:58 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 07, 2016, 10:15:58 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 08, 2016, 12:26:36 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 08, 2016, 06:58:31 am
I am just curious of what your opinions are. Of course, from those that have owned or experienced both types of engines. I know that the REAL expensive engines that chevy performance sells, the ones like 7k and more all have the vortec heads and roller cams. That's gotta mean something...
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 08, 2016, 11:13:50 am
I think you may have some confusion here, tell me if I'm wrong.
"VORTEC" was a line of engines GM has been using in various cars and trucks starting in 1999. This line includes the 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L and 6.2L V8's. The 8100 8.1L 496ci big block V8, the 4.6L V6, as well as an in line 4 and 5 cylinder used in the small trucks like Colorado's and Trailblazers. And last but not least, the 5.7L small block 350 and the 7.4L big block 454 used in the 90s trucks.
The 5.7L small block 350 and the 7.4L big block 454 are not LS engines. They are traditional cast iron block engines with roller cams and fuel injection, GM just started the line of Vortec engines with these two models by putting the word "VORTEC" on the intake for all to see when you open the hood.
Now, the 5.7L specifically, has the best flowing, most efficient cylinder heads (according to most people) than any other stock cast iron GM heads. These heads came on the 90s Vortec 350s, thus the heads earned the nickname "Vortec heads".
So when most people refer to using vortec heads on a 350, they are referring to the cast iron stock heads from the 90s. When someone says they are going to use a Vortec engine for some kind of application I usually ask them if they are referring to the small blocks of the 90s or if they are referring to the LS series engines that started being used in 1999.
The picture Zieg posted in post #226 is cast iron small block vortec.
The picture you posted in post #228 is a Vortec engine yes, but only because GM labeled it that to continue the "VORTEC" line. It is an LS based engine.
If you have any more questions about which is which, let me know.
You can take a 90s 350, buy an carburetor intake manifold for it, freshen up the engine with new gaskets and seals, use only stock parts on it, paint the whole thing the original blue color your engine in your truck would have been when new, drop in in your truck and to anyone who had no idea what they were looking at (80% of the general population) it would look completely original. It would take someone (much like us on this site) to notice that you have a newer engine disguised as on original.
And honestly, because of the advantages of roller cams and how that engine is more efficient than the older engines, that last paragraph about buying an intake and painting original is what I would do. Then you can putter around for years and should be just fine.
I put a 90s vortec short block in my 73 when the flat tappet cam 350 I built for it spun a connecting rod bearing. I much prefer it over the flat tappet engine. So that means my 73 C20 and my 97 Silverado have the same engine block configuration. The one in my 73 tho is bored and has aftermarket power parts tho, my 97 is all original.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 08, 2016, 11:48:56 am
https://chevroletperformanceparts.com/p/anniversary-edition-427-2
Need to wait to hear from Vile anyway, hope this vortec deal works out. If not, then the old school 350 it is, from summit. Thanks again..
Post by: roundhouse on February 08, 2016, 01:23:19 pm
Anything older has a flat tappet and will most likely also have worn down lobes
I think you can reuse the intake from the older engine on the 96-99 vortec by drilling out a couple of holes
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 08, 2016, 03:05:06 pm
Post by: blazer74 on February 08, 2016, 03:18:23 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 08, 2016, 04:43:46 pm
Post by: VileZambonie on February 08, 2016, 07:03:36 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 08, 2016, 08:31:46 pm
! And thanks! Keep me posted.
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 08, 2016, 10:51:59 pm
The roller cams started in 1996You can't do that. I've never heard of anyone doing that. You would have to drill at the exact perfect angle, tap it perfectly with the correct size and in the exact perfect location.
Anything older has a flat tappet and will most likely also have worn down lobes
I think you can reuse the intake from the older engine on the 96-99 vortec by drilling out a couple of holes
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Plus the bolts are not the same size or length for 12 bolt and 8 bolt intakes.
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 08, 2016, 10:54:34 pm
Not all vortec blocks have the drilled fuel pump boss for the mechanical fuel pump.For this you can always use a low pressure electric pump with a pressure regulator and mount it in an inconspicuous location. Or get an engine with a mechanical fuel pump provision. Alot of times, engine remanufacturers will drill the required holes for a mechanical pump on blocks that don't have them already so they can be bought by people who want one or the other, carb or efi. This expands their customer base and it's helpful because if you use efi and need a block off plate for the mechanical pump boss you can get plain Jane or fancy chrome or coated ones for pretty cheap.
Post by: Greybeard on February 09, 2016, 01:05:43 am
Ok, whats a vortec 350? Can i still use my original intake and carb? Does it look like a normal engine?
Remember, i'm old school, real old.
I wont have to do this to my truck will i?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160207/630f458bf28ca577e382a80affb3663c.jpg)
UGH! I hope not! That is the fugliest abortion made of a decent looking truck I've ever seen. Just my humble opinion however, YMMV
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 09, 2016, 11:39:55 am
Post by: VileZambonie on February 09, 2016, 12:07:54 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 09, 2016, 09:49:18 pm
Post by: blazer74 on February 09, 2016, 09:57:10 pm
You can run a carb on an originally TBI engine with some changes.
Post by: blazer74 on February 09, 2016, 09:59:00 pm
Not all vortec blocks have the drilled fuel pump boss for the mechanical fuel pump.
I should have said vortec headed blocks
Post by: Greybeard on February 09, 2016, 11:36:17 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 10, 2016, 09:48:58 am
Post by: VileZambonie on February 10, 2016, 09:57:36 am
Acronym Definition
A/C Air Conditioning
A/F Air/Fuel Ratio
A/T Automatic Transmission or Transaxle
ABS Anti-Lock Brake System
AC Alternating Current
AIR Secondary Air Injection
ATDC After Top Dead Center
ATF Automatic Transmission Fluid
AWD All-Wheel Drive
B1 Bank 1
B1 S1 Bank 1 Sensor 1
B1 S2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
B2 Bank 2
B2 S1 Bank 2 Sensor 1
B2 S2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
B+ Battery Positive Voltage (12 Volts)
BMW Bayerische Motoren Werke (Bavarian Motor Works)
BARO Barometric Pressure (Atmospheric Pressure)
BAT Battery
BCM Body Control Module
BHP Brake Horsepower
BTC Before Top Center
BTDC Before Top Dead Center
BTU British Thermal Units
C Celsius
CAC Charge Air Cooler (Inter-Cooler)
CC Cubic Centimeters
CFI Continuous Fuel Injection
CFM Cubic Feet per Minute
CID Cubic Inch Displacement
CIS Continuous Injection System
CIS-E Electronic Continuous Injection System
CKP Crankshaft Position Sensor
CL Closed Loop
CMP Camshaft Position Sensor
CO Carbon Monoxide
CO2 Carbon Dioxide
CPP Clutch Pedal Position
CTP Closed Throttle Position
dB Decibels
DC Direct Current
DFI Direct Fuel Injection
DLC Data Link Connector
DOHC Dual Overhead Cams
DTC Diagnostic Trouble Code
DTM Diagnostic Test Mode
DVOM Digital Volt Ohm Meter
EBCM Electronic Brake Control Module
EBTCM Electronic Brake Traction Control Module
EC Engine Control
ECM Engine Control Module
ECT Engine Coolant Temperature
EFE Early Fuel Evaporation
EGR Exhaust Gas Recirculation
EGRT EGR Temperature
EI Electronic Ignition
EM Engine Modification
EMI Electromagnetic Interference
EPROM Erasable PROM
EVAP Evaporative Emission System
F Fahrenheit
FC Fan Control
FF Flexible Fuel
FP Fuel Pump
FPROM Flash Erasable PROM
FT Fuel Trim (Fuel Mixture)
ft. lb. Foot Pound (Unit of Measure for Torque)
FTP Federal Test Procedure
FWD Front-Wheel Drive
gal Gallon
GEN Generator
GND Ground
GPM Grams per Mile
H20 Water
HC Hydrocarbon
Hg Mercury (Unit of Measure for Vacuum)
HO2S Heated Oxygen Sensor
HO2S1 Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor
HO2S2 Up or Downstream Heated Oxygen Sensor
HO2S3 Downstream Heated Oxygen Sensor
HP Horsepower
HVAC Heating Ventilation and A/C System
HVS High Voltage Switch
I/M Inspection/Maintenance
I/P Instrument Panel
IA Intake Air
IAC Idle Air Control
IAT Intake Air Temperature
IC Ignition Control Circuit
ICM Ignition Control Module
ID Inside Diameter
IFS Inertia Fuel Shutoff
IGN Ignition
IPC Instrument Panel Cluster
ISC Idle Speed Control
kHz Kilohertz
Km Kilometers
KOEC Key On, Engine Cranking
KOEO Key On, Engine Off
KOER Key On, Engine Running
kPa Kilopascals
KS Knock Sensor
KV Kilovolts
L Liters
lb. ft. Pound Feet
LT Long Term Fuel Trim
MAF Mass Airflow Sensor
MAP Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor
MC Mixture Control
MFI Multiport Fuel Injection
MIL Malfunction Indicator Lamp
mm Millimeters
MPG Miles per Gallon
MPH Miles per Hour
ms Millisecond (1/1000 of a Second)
mV Millivolts
Nm Newton Meters
NOX Oxides of Nitrogen
O2S Oxygen Sensor
OBD Onboard Diagnostics
OBD I Onboard Diagnostics, First Generation
OBD II Onboard Diagnostics, Second Generation
OC Oxidation Catalyst
OD Outside Diameter
ODM Output Device Monitor
OE Original Equipment
OEM Original Equipment Manufacturer
OHC Overhead Cam
OL Open Loop
P/B Power Brakes
P/N Part Number
P/S Power Steering
PAIR Pulsed Secondary Air Injection
PCM Powertrain Control Module
PCV Positive Crankcase Ventilation
PNP Park/Neutral Switch
PPM Parts per Million
PROM Programmable Read Only Memory
PSA Pressure Switch Assembly
PSI Pounds per Square Inch
PSP Power Steering Pressure
pt. Pint
Qt. Quart
RAM Random Access Memory
RFI Radio Frequency Interference
ROM Read Only Memory
RPM Revolutions per Minute
RWD Rear-Wheel Drive
SC Supercharger
SCB Supercharger Bypass
SFI Sequential Fuel Injection
SOHC Single Overhead Cam
SRI Service Reminder Indicator
SRT System Readiness Test
ST Short Term Fuel Trim
TACH Tachometer
TB Throttle Body
TBI Throttle Body Injection
TC Turbocharger
TCC Torque Converter Clutch
TCCM Transfer Case Control Module
TCM Transmission or Transaxle Control Module
TDC Top Dead Center
TFP Throttle Fluid Pressure
TP Throttle Position
TPS Throttle Position Sensor
TVV Thermal Vacuum Valve
TWC Three Way Catalyst
TWC+OC Three Way + Oxidation Catalytic Converter
V Volts
VATS Vehicle Anti-Theft System
VAC Volts Alternating Current
VAF Volume Airflow
VDC Volts Direct Current
VIN Vehicle Identification Number
VR Voltage Regulator
VS Vehicle Sensor
VSS Vehicle Speed Sensor
WOT Wide Open Throttle
WU-TWC Warm Up Three-Way Catalytic Converter
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 10, 2016, 10:28:18 am
Good grief ..
Post by: bd on February 10, 2016, 10:49:33 am
Vile, you should copy...
Here's a SHORT list for you
Acronym Definition ...
...into the Tech Pages. There's probably not space for the LONG list.... ;)
Post by: VileZambonie on February 10, 2016, 11:01:29 am
LOL
Vile, you should copy...Here's a SHORT list for you
Acronym Definition ...
...into the Tech Pages. There's probably not space for the LONG list.... ;)
Post by: gunrac on February 10, 2016, 01:04:50 pm
DoneLOL
Vile, you should copy...Here's a SHORT list for you
Acronym Definition ...
...into the Tech Pages. There's probably not space for the LONG list.... ;)
Hey fellas, this really helps me. TYVM........I've already made a paper copy for even quicker access. This will quicken up my search when I see an Acronym, I don't remember, or even know. At least a better idea before I start to google it.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 10, 2016, 04:01:46 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 10, 2016, 10:35:36 pm
Can a TBI have a regular carb or must they be fuel inj. ?Yes, you can run a fuel Injected engine on a carb. You can run a carb engine on fuel injection. It just depends on the parts required and how much money you are willing to spend.
Post by: Greybeard on February 10, 2016, 11:16:35 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 11, 2016, 05:47:29 am
Thats for my 64 impala ss.
Post by: Irish_Alley on February 11, 2016, 07:05:41 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 11, 2016, 07:20:46 am
Post by: Irish_Alley on February 11, 2016, 07:31:16 am
Post by: blazer74 on February 11, 2016, 10:54:38 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 11, 2016, 01:36:29 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 11, 2016, 01:49:43 pm
Post by: VileZambonie on February 11, 2016, 06:19:49 pm
The nice thing is these trucks that we all love are going up in value significantly.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 11, 2016, 06:51:15 pm
What do you think my truck might be worth, after the new 350 of course?
Post by: VileZambonie on February 11, 2016, 08:27:40 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 11, 2016, 09:49:32 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 11, 2016, 09:56:27 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 12, 2016, 10:27:06 am
Thanks,,
Post by: VileZambonie on February 13, 2016, 09:49:59 am
See if it comes with valve cover gaskets and intake gaskets. A tube of the right stuff RTV. Fluids, oil, filter, coolant, thermostat and gasket, carburetor base gasket. You need a power steering pump spacer too. I think there's a nut there as a spacer now but summit sells the spacers for like a buck or two.
Central CT coatings can give you a price on coating your manifolds if you want to give them a call. Ask for Gene, and you can tell him I referred you and maybe he'll give you a better deal.
http://www.centralctcoatings.com/
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 13, 2016, 10:02:17 am
Also, how are we going to paint chevy blue over the already black? (Not that i dont like chevy blue, i LOVE the original blue)
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 13, 2016, 01:37:38 pm
Shows only for pontiac.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160213/ded120e829e92a752fb8869967c127f2.jpg)
Post by: VileZambonie on February 13, 2016, 08:23:51 pm
try part # KRS-SPC90-0-500
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 13, 2016, 08:59:20 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 13, 2016, 09:34:00 pm
because you do not reuse old gaskets and old thermostat on a brand new engine. You told me you like your valve covers so if you want them swapped over they go onto the new engine. Usually if they come with VC's they are chap tins with a little sticker that says the displacement. As far as paint, it's your preference.
try part # KRS-SPC90-0-500
Got it!!! Spacer has been added to the wish list.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/krs-spc90-0-500
Post by: Greybeard on February 13, 2016, 11:55:41 pm
Gaskets are not something you should reuse especially on a different mounting surface. Especially compressible gaskets. Rubber types can maybe work if they are new enough.
Vile will likely do this anyway but it should be SOP (or a good idea anyway) to get oil pressure built up prior to installing the engine for a couple of reasons. To check the rear main seal for leakage is the primary one however. Nothing is a bigger headache than having to remove a fresh engine because the rear of it leaks. The cam plugs could leak too. Neither one is likely, but either could happen.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 14, 2016, 06:27:54 am
Yeah, guess i'll do a quick clean up of engine bay. Clean and paint, not show truck. And stop raising my anxiety level!! Lol
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 14, 2016, 12:00:04 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on February 14, 2016, 12:17:34 pm
You're going to need plugs, wires, cap,rotor, ?new distributor, oil, oil air and fuel filters, antifreeze, gaskets, brake cleaner, shop rags or towels, paint, ?water pump, etc.... :o
If your engine is $2000 and your other stuff is $400, 2400/3= $800.....so plan on $3200 total cost. You will need nuts, bolts, cables, brackets, hoses, wires, sensors, exhaust work that are unplanned and add up quickly. If you do an honest estimate you should come in under the the total cost with the 1/3 added to it. ;)
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 14, 2016, 12:32:14 pm
Vile, say it aint so! You know i have severe anxiety attacks!
I think the truck might have to come off the road, or drive until the engine splits in two.. This is not an "lol". Now the anger is fighting the anxiety, then depression. And of course the cycle starts over again. I hate this problem!
Post by: bd on February 14, 2016, 01:37:33 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 14, 2016, 02:12:26 pm
Take care, thanks again. The list is building.
Post by: VileZambonie on February 14, 2016, 03:46:53 pm
An engine swap in a 73-80 is something I can do with my eyes closed. The time consuming part is the attention to detail, cleaning, painting, ensuring longevity and the final tune in. The best part is closing the hood and taking a joy ride. Begin with the end in mind.
If it make you feel any better I just spent $550 on window parts for the orange truck because the original glass looks like poop and I don't want to reuse it. When I croak my daughters can sell my trucks and tools/equipment and hopefully make a lot of $. It's an investment in my passions, who cares what it costs if you love it?
So anyway, send me your list in an email and I'll look it over and check my sources for prices etc. PS I can't stand puke so don't puke near the truck k?
Post by: Captain Swampy on February 14, 2016, 04:44:43 pm
People will worry all day and not give it a second thought. The opposite is prayer and meditation. It takes practice, but when you start to worry, focus on good thoughts. How smooth it will run. The years of enjoyment. How nice the engine bay will look. Your building a friendship with Vile. The excitement when the new engine fires!
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 14, 2016, 07:09:51 pm
Vile, that was the best post i have ever read. Thanks for your kind judgement, i really am on a budget and plan on taking the truck up to glory with me. I doubt the Lord will have it though. I know its just metal and vinyl and rubber and when it comes to the important things in life the truck can blow up and we'll not even bat an eye. When i have a problem or task to do, i want to make it go away fast, but when the problem is big i get anxious and impatient. However, when i see a glimps of light ahead, as you have shown me regarding my engine problem, the anxiety shuts down. I admit, i thought you were too busy with other stuff and were gonna send me elsewhere. Thought i was going to be stuck with this cursed wobbling crankshaft. Thanks for working things out and making the worry go away, which is just a waste of time.
I dont mind pounding sand, just not today, its zero out.
And thanks capt. swamp for the pick me up.
Ps. Looking real forward to closing that hood!!!!!
Post by: Greybeard on February 14, 2016, 10:22:40 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 15, 2016, 09:19:22 am
My worries and anxiety are near gone! Amen! I really look forward to posting the finished product , before and after pics, stuff like that.
Keep in touch,,
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 15, 2016, 09:19:05 pm
Post by: Greybeard on February 16, 2016, 09:44:23 pm
... I wish i could help, but just as i would not help a doctor perform surgery, i cant give him one lick of advice, unless he asks me a question regarding preference.
Keep in touch,,
Don't sell what you can do to help short. Cleaning parts, doing some of the leg work, whatever he has time to show you, is all worth learning.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 16, 2016, 10:19:09 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 17, 2016, 04:33:18 pm
Cant wait for the new crate.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 18, 2016, 09:16:02 pm
Post by: AZ87V10 on February 18, 2016, 10:07:52 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 18, 2016, 10:28:57 pm
Getting ready for the big summit order next week, brand new chevy 350 and a bunch of new accessories. Too bad, wish it were simple to change a crank and a cam though, that 305 runs like a sewing machine after Vile tuned it.Well seeing as he will be tuning the new one, it will run like a sewing machine too, and without all the crankshaft slapping around.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 19, 2016, 10:28:38 am
Post by: gunrac on February 19, 2016, 11:05:27 am
.
Post by: AZ87V10 on February 19, 2016, 11:25:53 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 19, 2016, 11:50:06 am
Post by: Greybeard on February 19, 2016, 06:25:29 pm
I have seldom swapped motors but I have removed and replaced my share. On my present truck I installed the motor by myself, then the trans and t-case by myself when the truck was sitting on it's rolling stock all in one day. On a lift it might go easier. Picture this, the engine balanced in it's mounts with floor jack under it to steady it, the cherry picker poked into the passenger side door with a 3x4 piece of wood as an extender for the arm, push the SM465 w/NP205 t-case under truck on its side so it fits, roll it upright, attach chains to predetermined balance points and pump cherry picker with foot while laying under truck yanking on front wheels of cherry picker to get it to move sideways to align bolt holes with alignment studs in bellhousing, then micromanage the height so the input shaft aligns correctly with the clutch (while still yanking the cherry picker around sideways). But since the opening in the floor does not allow the chain far enough forward another floor jack is employed to hold up the front of the units with me guiding everything from my back, working the cherry picker with my leg (unless it needed to go down, then I had to stop everything, let it all relax and slide out far enough to work the release on the jack) then start all over again. Call it frustrating because it was. But that's what happens when I decide to do something at midnight in my bosses shop, nobody to call for support. But I got it all in that night, everything hooked up and fired up the following day. ;D
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 19, 2016, 07:34:55 pm
I am going to ask him if he can take a couple photos during the process, mostly before and after i guess, and also post progress here.
As strange as it may seem, i was just beginning an intense "get out of debt" program. Dave Ramsey. And then this happened. Awful timing. I had to borrow 2k for this engine project, talk about a set-back. I may have to sell my college ring and a couple of guns to get through this. I hate debt!!
Vile has been working with me so far on this and i cant begin to explain how grateful i am.
Post by: Captain Swampy on February 19, 2016, 08:24:44 pm
Just tallied up summit order, $1974.79. I'm feeling light-headed. Someone tell me this aint that bad...
That isn't bad! You'd probably have that in parts and machine work on your old engine, not even mentioning the labor putting it all together. Stick with the Dave Ramsey thing. Being debt free is awesome!
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 19, 2016, 08:59:16 pm
Post by: SomeTexan on February 19, 2016, 09:04:06 pm
Just tallied up summit order, $1974.79. I'm feeling light-headed. Someone tell me this aint that bad...
That isn't bad at all. If I remember correctly, the crankshaft in the last sbc I built cost more. Of course, I'm hooked on LS engines now, around here you can pick up a low mileage 4.8 with harness and computer for around $500.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 20, 2016, 02:14:04 pm
Post by: SomeTexan on February 20, 2016, 02:34:14 pm
Love an LS, dont like computers though. (In engines)
I used to be that way. Until I was running 8 second quarter miles with a junkyard pull out that got 26mpg and required almost no maintenance. I was all about carbs, now I think they only belong on 100% restored to stock show cars. Drivers benefit greatly from computer controlled fuel, timing and transmission controls.
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 20, 2016, 02:48:08 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 20, 2016, 03:05:14 pm
Post by: SomeTexan on February 20, 2016, 03:21:01 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 20, 2016, 04:22:43 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 20, 2016, 06:44:56 pm
Post by: Irish_Alley on February 20, 2016, 07:05:38 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 20, 2016, 07:38:28 pm
just a fyi 4l80e is good in stock form for 440 Ft lbs th400 is in stock form 450I don't know what the stock form capacity is of a 89 4L60 (late model 700R4) but mine will easily handle 500 hp. Which I'm no where near, I am right between 400-450 ft lbs torque tho.
Post by: SomeTexan on February 20, 2016, 07:43:08 pm
just a fyi 4l80e is good in stock form for 440 Ft lbs th400 is in stock form 450
I've heard that before, but I've run, and know a few people that run, considerably more through them with good results. They are a tough, underrated trans. I guess I should say that they are tough with the right tune. A bad tune will kill them quickly.
Post by: Irish_Alley on February 20, 2016, 07:59:47 pm
dont know for sure but i think the 4l60e is rated at 360 ft. lbs
Post by: SomeTexan on February 20, 2016, 08:23:22 pm
got one behind my cummins. the torque converter is starting to let me down, but i think that was more operator error.
dont know for sure but i think the 4l60e is rated at 360 ft. lbs
Putting them behind a Cummins is a whole different story. So much off idle torque the trans can't keep up. With a trans brake they don't like to lock in until they are over 2500-3000 rpm, so I don't know if the pump is moving enough volume to keep the trans happy behind a diesel. I was told by a diesel sled pull guy that there is an aftermarket pump coming out for the 80 that will fix that, but it doesn't like input speeds over 4500rpm. Not an issue with most diesels, although some racers and pull guys spin them way higher.
I intend to throw one in my truck once I get the cash together. Fully built, all billet with a top of the line converter is around $6000 but they claim a 3000hp rating.
Post by: Irish_Alley on February 20, 2016, 08:26:47 pm
Post by: SomeTexan on February 20, 2016, 08:42:00 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 20, 2016, 09:43:58 pm
Post by: Greybeard on February 22, 2016, 12:23:07 am
Then there is the new tech stuff....a multimeter, some wire strippers, an assortment of connectors, some spare wire, and a laptop ...now, what happens when it's raining? ;D
Post by: SomeTexan on February 22, 2016, 10:44:08 am
Greybeard, it's not that hard. Limp mode will usually get you home where a code scanner will give you a good idea what's wrong. The only reason you would need the wire strippers, wire and connectors is because a horrible installation was done. 99% of the time, you would just drive it. They are reliable, last forever and really are simple to work on.
Post by: Greybeard on February 22, 2016, 06:05:42 pm
Post by: SomeTexan on February 22, 2016, 07:03:39 pm
Well Texan, maybe. All my company trucks were newfangled tech. Open the hood and wonder where the engine is, then reach in there to feel around for it and break something plastic that can never be found again. On these old trucks, open the hood, climb right in beside the engine, sit on the edge of the fender without fear of it crumpling, hang on to the carb for balance, kneel on the valve covers to reach the distributor, drop a wrench and swear up and down, because not only does it reach the ground, it reaches it smack square in the middle and just behind (or between) the front tires >:(. On the maintenance side, a few feet of three different sizes of fuel line, some vacuum hose, a little oil and a new filter, and a new or cleaned air filter and your good to go. Change the PCV valve, spark plugs and wires and the innards of the distributor every once in a while while your at it. $100 bucks tops. A tune up on the newfangled stuff....$85 just to hook it up to the machine that tells them it doesn't need a tuneup yet. :o I had my first GMC for almost six years after buying it new and thrashing it in deep water, up mountain slopes, and through deep snow and mud. Only two hiccups that stopped me, a flatted lobe on the cam was the first that caused a major, massive, and expensive rebuild resulting in a pretty high horsepower engine, and the oil pump drive coupling broke once about four years into the rebuild. Not many folks today even keep a truck until the payments are over. :o My '02 2500 Dodge was bought in '05 I think, 108K miles on it now. Rusted out everywhere. Most folks run at the first sign of rust. Heaven forbid the neighbors see a rusty truck in the driveway ya know. I just go out every year or so now and trim more of the rust off with the grinder. ;D
When you do an ls swap, the engine covers are an optional install. I throw that crap in the trash. The only plastic left is the intake, and it's fairly tough. As far as tune ups, if it isn't running bad, you don't need one. There is no reason whatsoever to pay someone to plug in to your computer. All the major part stores will plug in for free and every one I've dealt with let me use the scanner. Many have a loan-a-tool program where you can give them a deposit to borrow the scanner. Bring it back, get your money back. Of course, I like having one handy and they aren't that expensive. A basic ls install takes up no more room than a small block. Less actually since you don't have issues with distributer/firewall clearance.
I've owned and built plenty of old iron. I have no problems with setting timing by ear and seat of the pants. No issues tuning a carb, even dominators. Wideband O2 sensors make it easier, but aren't a must have. The new ones don't need all the little bs. No need to check timing, adjust carbs or even change plugs very often. To me it's a better daily driver set up. No muss, no fuss and a check engine light will tell you when something needs work.
Don't get me started on Dodge rust. I've owned quite a few and consider almost all of them a pile of crap wrapped around a good drivetrain. Although I have had good luck with them, I know many people don't.
Out of curiosity, what engine was in your GMC? On these ls engines you have to shim the oil pump when you install it. Not shimming the oil pump or running those junk "ported" oil pumps are the only ones I've seen fail.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 22, 2016, 08:46:39 pm
Did rochester go out of business due to fuel injection?
Post by: Captain Swampy on February 22, 2016, 09:29:30 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 22, 2016, 09:39:55 pm
Post by: SomeTexan on February 22, 2016, 10:16:56 pm
Ive heard those ls engines are really nice. But i have to agree with greybeard on the old school engines. I have to, its what i grew up with, kind of a heritage. I hate check engine lights and emissions. What was the last year for carburetors?
Did rochester go out of business due to fuel injection?
Emissions? I've never moved any of that stuff over. In Texas, once it's 25 years old that stuff doesn't matter any more.
I grew up on carbs myself and used to hate efi, but it's really not as bad as people make it out to be. There is a lot of extra stuff on these engines from the factory, but the harness gets way more simple when it's set up for the swap. And, it's not like the older efi that gives you a light, then can't tell you why it's giving you a light. It really points you to the problem then a few simple tests will tell you exactly what is wrong. And when it comes to tuning, it's way more accurate than changing jets and metering rods. But, to each their own. I like having the capability to make 1000+ hp out of junkyard take outs that I can get for less than it costs me for machine work on an sbc. Plus mid 20's for mpg, and easy starting in cold weather. Throw in set it and forget it reliability and I'm sold.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 23, 2016, 10:44:24 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 23, 2016, 10:46:30 am
Does anyone know for sure, the best oil for a new sbc crate, break in period? Weight and brand??
Post by: SomeTexan on February 23, 2016, 11:15:04 am
Ditching the cats really wakes up the ls engines, at least with a good tune. I know some states require that you run the emission system from the donor vehicle, but you can get away with gutting the cats. They run cleaner without cats than with, oddly enough.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 23, 2016, 02:15:56 pm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/9092518f1d4b681b8b4fe6a111c5e9c6.jpg)
Post by: SomeTexan on February 23, 2016, 02:32:58 pm
Post by: SomeTexan on February 23, 2016, 02:44:30 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 23, 2016, 04:36:11 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 23, 2016, 05:08:35 pm
Oh well, it is what it is. Should be all set now.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/e48406c5aeb898a3db53a0d63168bae9.jpg)
Post by: SomeTexan on February 23, 2016, 05:12:19 pm
Post by: VileZambonie on February 23, 2016, 05:45:47 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 23, 2016, 06:56:16 pm
Post by: SomeTexan on February 23, 2016, 08:21:49 pm
I called summit and they gave me a tech number to call, and then i was on hold forever, then lost signal. Oh well. Everybody has a different opinion on this forum, which messes me up!! I aint callin anybody wrong, but you know what i mean. Vile, i'll stick with your advice for the remainder of this engine swap...and thereafter, and then some. I got 5 qts. of the purple stuff.
Yea, Summit has gone downhill over the last 10 years. At one time, anyone that answered the phone knew what they were talking about.
I do have to disagree with Vile, stock flat tappet engines are the ones that need break in oil the most since all new oil is so low on zinc. It's not a big deal on roller lifters, but there are stories all over about crate engines losing cams because of not using break in oil. Even with the additive thrown in. Although I bet most people that use the additive just pour it in, rather than mixing it with the oil before pouring it in the engine. The reason I suggested the Joe Gibbs oil was because its way cheaper than royal purple, and I know a lot of people that swear by it. RP isn't cheap, and since you run it for 20min to break in the cam, then drain and replace with more break in oil for 2-500 miles before going to normal oil, it adds up.
Post by: Greybeard on February 23, 2016, 08:43:38 pm
Out of curiosity, what engine was in your GMC? On these ls engines you have to shim the oil pump when you install it. Not shimming the oil pump or running those junk "ported" oil pumps are the only ones I've seen fail.
It was the stock '78 engine, small block, 4 bolt, punched .30 over (too much I know).
Post by: SomeTexan on February 23, 2016, 08:53:37 pm
Out of curiosity, what engine was in your GMC? On these ls engines you have to shim the oil pump when you install it. Not shimming the oil pump or running those junk "ported" oil pumps are the only ones I've seen fail.
It was the stock '78 engine, small block, 4 bolt, punched .30 over (too much I know).
Ahh, the plastic sleeve on the oil pump drive rather than the steel one. Also, wasn't that the first year of the low tin blocks? .030 isn't bad, .060 is where some of them start having cylinder wall issues.
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 23, 2016, 10:27:50 pm
Post by: SomeTexan on February 23, 2016, 10:53:07 pm
Royal purple is good oil. I used it in my first engine. Expensive yes but worth it is think. Just please make sure you get the proper weight as recommended for the new engine. Also, it is full synthetic, even the break in oil.
That's debatable. I've run it twice, both times I lost an engine the first pass after putting it in. Fresh engines both times, and both times the bearings showed a big lack of lubrication. Data logger showed normal oil pressure and temps all the way until they let go. Both times it was an RP rep trying to sponsor me, fresh oil from the cases in his truck. I refreshed both engines and went back to Castrol GTX and never had another problem. After running bypass filters on my diesels and getting oil analasis done on a regular basis, I don't trust synthetic oils.
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 24, 2016, 01:14:13 am
Totally alright. I think it's good, but that's about it. Not great or amazing. It's "mid grade" synthetic if you will. I used it, didn't have an issue, but oddly enough, the engine I used it in, had a fuel pump push rod that was brand new and missed the hardening process. The drive lobe on the cam chewed .5 inches off of it in 250 miles, once I figured it out, I just changed the oil and few times in short succession and took a chance on it. I got 7K miles out of it before the push rod pieces that had run thru it before I found the issue destroyed the #1 rod bearing, chewed up the crank something special and it got a nice curb idle rod knock. I knew that push rod was the end of the engine but I just didn't know how long until it was gonna go so I just ran it till it started knocking. Got about a year out of it I think.Royal purple is good oil. I used it in my first engine. Expensive yes but worth it is think. Just please make sure you get the proper weight as recommended for the new engine. Also, it is full synthetic, even the break in oil.
That's debatable. I've run it twice, both times I lost an engine the first pass after putting it in. Fresh engines both times, and both times the bearings showed a big lack of lubrication. Data logger showed normal oil pressure and temps all the way until they let go. Both times it was an RP rep trying to sponsor me, fresh oil from the cases in his truck. I refreshed both engines and went back to Castrol GTX and never had another problem. After running bypass filters on my diesels and getting oil analasis done on a regular basis, I don't trust synthetic oils.
Now I would go to mobile 1 before I went back to RP.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 24, 2016, 08:58:00 am
I checked the online installation instructions and they didnt even mention using a special break in oil or zddp stuff. But they did say to change after 500 mi. One thing i have heard from ALL sources was to NOT use a synthetic oil.
Unless Vile tells me otherwise, i will use my 10w30 and add the additive to the whole 5 qt bottle and mix well.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160224/aabb538982cfabd8245314cbfebb7424.jpg)
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 24, 2016, 09:46:06 am
Also, run engine at like 2000 rpm for 20 min., Change oil, then change again at 500 miles.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 24, 2016, 10:09:58 am
6 to 1, 1/2 doz the other.
http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/100/138/138-Engines_Installation_4-12.pdf
Post by: SomeTexan on February 24, 2016, 10:11:27 am
Vile sounds like he knows his crate engines, I'm sure he won't steer you wrong. I've only used one crate engine, all the rest I've built and fully blueprinted to my own specs.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 24, 2016, 10:23:15 am
Oh, and i'm not doing the purple oil stuff. I'm set.
Post by: SomeTexan on February 24, 2016, 10:28:34 am
Totally alright. I think it's good, but that's about it. Not great or amazing. It's "mid grade" synthetic if you will. I used it, didn't have an issue, but oddly enough, the engine I used it in, had a fuel pump push rod that was brand new and missed the hardening process. The drive lobe on the cam chewed .5 inches off of it in 250 miles, once I figured it out, I just changed the oil and few times in short succession and took a chance on it. I got 7K miles out of it before the push rod pieces that had run thru it before I found the issue destroyed the #1 rod bearing, chewed up the crank something special and it got a nice curb idle rod knock. I knew that push rod was the end of the engine but I just didn't know how long until it was gonna go so I just ran it till it started knocking. Got about a year out of it I think.Royal purple is good oil. I used it in my first engine. Expensive yes but worth it is think. Just please make sure you get the proper weight as recommended for the new engine. Also, it is full synthetic, even the break in oil.
That's debatable. I've run it twice, both times I lost an engine the first pass after putting it in. Fresh engines both times, and both times the bearings showed a big lack of lubrication. Data logger showed normal oil pressure and temps all the way until they let go. Both times it was an RP rep trying to sponsor me, fresh oil from the cases in his truck. I refreshed both engines and went back to Castrol GTX and never had another problem. After running bypass filters on my diesels and getting oil analasis done on a regular basis, I don't trust synthetic oils.
Now I would go to mobile 1 before I went back to RP.
Different strokes for different folks. Some people even like Penzoil for some reason. As long as you have good luck with it, run it.
Post by: SomeTexan on February 24, 2016, 10:53:57 am
Yes, Vile is very solid. Both mechanical and theoretical. No worries. I have learned thats a waste of time.
Oh, and i'm not doing the purple oil stuff. I'm set.
I wouldn't call the break in procedure a waste of time, that has been a tried and true method used for decades. It might be overkill for a simple crate engine, but it does make a difference. I know for a fact because of having oil analasis's done, cutting filters open, bearing and cam/lifter inspections. It does make a difference, it just may not be enough for you to worry about with your application.
Post by: blazer74 on February 24, 2016, 12:36:24 pm
Some will debate cam failure is also due to inferior quality these days, along with the oils lacking zinc and phosphorus to save the environment and catalytic converters.
Post by: Greybeard on February 24, 2016, 02:21:39 pm
Out of curiosity, what engine was in your GMC? On these ls engines you have to shim the oil pump when you install it. Not shimming the oil pump or running those junk "ported" oil pumps are the only ones I've seen fail.
It was the stock '78 engine, small block, 4 bolt, punched .30 over (too much I know).
Ahh, the plastic sleeve on the oil pump drive rather than the steel one. Also, wasn't that the first year of the low tin blocks? .030 isn't bad, .060 is where some of them start having cylinder wall issues.
Unfortunately, the one that broke was a steel one, one ear cracked and bent out enough for it to slip. 20 minute fix. This was after the rebuild, maybe 5 years after. I don't know if it was a low tin/nickle or not. I do have what is supposed to be a high nickle block in my present truck. I don't know if it's true or a rule of thumb or BS, but my understanding is high nickle blocks have a simple 010 cast in them. Could also be a fairy tale.
Post by: Greybeard on February 24, 2016, 02:37:42 pm
Royal purple is good oil. I used it in my first engine. Expensive yes but worth it is think. Just please make sure you get the proper weight as recommended for the new engine. Also, it is full synthetic, even the break in oil.
That's debatable. I've run it twice, both times I lost an engine the first pass after putting it in. Fresh engines both times, and both times the bearings showed a big lack of lubrication. Data logger showed normal oil pressure and temps all the way until they let go. Both times it was an RP rep trying to sponsor me, fresh oil from the cases in his truck. I refreshed both engines and went back to Castrol GTX and never had another problem. After running bypass filters on my diesels and getting oil analasis done on a regular basis, I don't trust synthetic oils.
I whole-heartedly agree with the Castrol oil. I've used that for decades in one form or another and have never had an oil related failure. Of course, prior to the cam lobe flattening in my first truck I used Penzoil or Havoline just like my Dad used. That changed with the rebuilt engine and I never looked back. In addition, I have used Castrol 20/50 or straight 50 in my 84 Harley since I bought it new in 84 (still have it 2 (nearly) stock ;) rebuilds later). No point in paying for over-priced and over valued Harley oil (no point in paying for any extremely over-priced item from Harley anymore).
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 24, 2016, 02:51:54 pm
Different strokes for different folks. Some people even like Penzoil for some reason. As long as you have good luck with it, run it.
Very well put. I completely agree.
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 24, 2016, 02:55:10 pm
See what i mean, i heard NO on mobile one. All i know is nobody knows the absolute truth. All preference so far.GM uses Mobil 1 for all of its synthetic applications. Some Cadillacs, some Buicks, all of the high performance engines in the camaros, corvettes, cts-v's, a few other models, there is Delvac Mobil 1 available for the diesels. We never have issues with Mobil 1 in anything.
I checked the online installation instructions and they didnt even mention using a special break in oil or zddp stuff. But they did say to change after 500 mi. One thing i have heard from ALL sources was to NOT use a synthetic oil.
Unless Vile tells me otherwise, i will use my 10w30 and add the additive to the whole 5 qt bottle and mix well.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160224/aabb538982cfabd8245314cbfebb7424.jpg)
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 24, 2016, 02:59:08 pm
Post by: blazer74 on February 24, 2016, 03:32:43 pm
There is a continuing decline in today's oil including diesel oils which have detergent that works against its zinc/phos content.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 24, 2016, 04:35:47 pm
Yes, Vile is very solid. Both mechanical and theoretical. No worries. I have learned thats a waste of time.
Oh, and i'm not doing the purple oil stuff. I'm set.
I wouldn't call the break in procedure a waste of time, that has been a tried and true method used for decades. It might be overkill for a simple crate engine, but it does make a difference. I know for a fact because of having oil analasis's done, cutting filters open, bearing and cam/lifter inspections. It does make a difference, it just may not be enough for you to worry about with your application.
Hold it!! I meant worring is a waste of time,,NOT the break in period. See post 289.
I'm planning on treating this new engine like a newborn baby.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 24, 2016, 04:46:37 pm
What ever oil you use it important to keep up with the manufactures data for levels of zinc/phosphorus.
There is a continuing decline in today's oil including diesel oils which have detergent that works against its zinc/phos content.
Mobile one, and even walmart brand im sure is fine. Only stated what i heard. But yes, stuff gets worse as they try to protect the environment more. The cars and trucks and consumers take the hit.
So, yes, and from my recent research, it appears that as long as you keep up with that zddp stuff, should be fine.
Post by: SomeTexan on February 24, 2016, 05:27:38 pm
Yes, Vile is very solid. Both mechanical and theoretical. No worries. I have learned thats a waste of time.
Oh, and i'm not doing the purple oil stuff. I'm set.
I wouldn't call the break in procedure a waste of time, that has been a tried and true method used for decades. It might be overkill for a simple crate engine, but it does make a difference. I know for a fact because of having oil analasis's done, cutting filters open, bearing and cam/lifter inspections. It does make a difference, it just may not be enough for you to worry about with your application.
Hold it!! I meant worring is a waste of time,,NOT the break in period. See post 289.
I'm planning on treating this new engine like a newborn baby.
Ok, that makes more sense.
Post by: VileZambonie on February 24, 2016, 07:15:19 pm
I called summit and they gave me a tech number to call, and then i was on hold forever, then lost signal. Oh well. Everybody has a different opinion on this forum, which messes me up!! I aint callin anybody wrong, but you know what i mean. Vile, i'll stick with your advice for the remainder of this engine swap...and thereafter, and then some. I got 5 qts. of the purple stuff.
Yea, Summit has gone downhill over the last 10 years. At one time, anyone that answered the phone knew what they were talking about.
I do have to disagree with Vile, stock flat tappet engines are the ones that need break in oil the most since all new oil is so low on zinc. It's not a big deal on roller lifters, but there are stories all over about crate engines losing cams because of not using break in oil. Even with the additive thrown in. Although I bet most people that use the additive just pour it in, rather than mixing it with the oil before pouring it in the engine. The reason I suggested the Joe Gibbs oil was because its way cheaper than royal purple, and I know a lot of people that swear by it. RP isn't cheap, and since you run it for 20min to break in the cam, then drain and replace with more break in oil for 2-500 miles before going to normal oil, it adds up.
So how is this disagreeing with me?
Post by: SomeTexan on February 24, 2016, 08:09:25 pm
It's essentially a stock configuration 350 so you don't need to be overly concerned.
I was dissagreeing with this. To me, a stock flat tappet 350 would cause more concern during break in than a race engine that gets pulled apart every other weekend or more often. That stock engine will probably be in a daily driver that is supposed to last.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 24, 2016, 08:27:42 pm
Post by: roundhouse on February 24, 2016, 09:58:18 pm
Check out Joe Gibbs break in oil. Also, Comp Cams, Edelbrock, Maxxima and a few others make good oils for break in. I called a friend of mine that rebuilds engines for a living, he said he won't warranty an engine if they used an additive instead of a break in oil. He claims 3 out of 5 come back with flat cams after a couple thousand miles, max. Usually less than 1000.exactly why I won't ever install an engine that doesn't have roller lifters
You have to break in the new cam by revving it to the moon for 20 minutes or something like that when you first fire it up. And even if you do everything right a lot of times the new cam wipes a lobe
I think some people use regular oil for break in then switch to synthetic
Because the synthetic is so slippery it doesn't let the new metal parts wear enough to seal up
We are looking at replacing the worn out 350 engine in our K-10
Not sure if we're going back with a 350 or a LS. But either way it won't be a flat tappet engine. It will be roller lifters since the 350 in it now has several flat lobes
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Post by: philo_beddoe on February 24, 2016, 10:23:49 pm
All i need is 30 years, by then i'll be too old to drive.
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 24, 2016, 10:25:09 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on February 24, 2016, 10:30:53 pm
What did they do in the 60's and 70's with the tens of thousands of engines back then? Are the flat tappet cams a total failure? I dont have the engine knowledge like some of you on this forum, but my current 305 has been cranking since 1977, almost 40 years, and i doubt it was ever really taken care of. My new 350 is going to putt around town, no hauling. And, i plan on giving it extreme care,,,adding the proper oils, additives, clean filters, clean plugs, perfect timing, etc.Every single flat tappet engine that every left a production line anywhere had to be broken in, so yes, every single one got broken in. Breaking the cam in hardens the two parts so they don't destroy each other and creates a wear pattern "template" if that is how you want to see it. Allowing the lobe and lifter to run against each other for hundreds of thousands of miles in uniform fashion until eventually one or the other just gets plan wore out and goes flat.
All i need is 30 years, by then i'll be too old to drive.
Without break in, the "template" isn't created and one part hardens better than the other, is then a stronger material could say and destroys the other.
Post by: SomeTexan on February 24, 2016, 10:40:59 pm
What did they do in the 60's and 70's with the tens of thousands of engines back then? Are the flat tappet cams a total failure? I dont have the engine knowledge like some of you on this forum, but my current 305 has been cranking since 1977, almost 40 years, and i doubt it was ever really taken care of. My new 350 is going to putt around town, no hauling. And, i plan on giving it extreme care,,,adding the proper oils, additives, clean filters, clean plugs, perfect timing, etc.
All i need is 30 years, by then i'll be too old to drive.
The older oils had zinc and other things in them that helped the lifters live. Basically the special stuff that's in break in oil used to be in all the oil. Flat tappet cams aren't the problem, the new oils are. I do like roller better because they can handle more aggressive valve opening and closing without binding. This in turn opened up cam lobe design options. You can get cams that give you the lopey, raunchy top fuel idle, but are still streetable, low to mid range driver cams. Or you can have the evil high rpm monster nitrous cam that idles like stock.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 24, 2016, 10:46:20 pm
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine-tech-flat-tappet-lifters-still-viable-in-performance-engines/
Post by: roundhouse on February 25, 2016, 07:43:41 am
Some oiling issue maybe ?
I've mostly worked on old fords and I've never seen an old 289 or 390 with a wiped lobe. But almost every old 350 has a flat lobe or two
Usually the very back one on the drivers side , which makes me think it's an oiling issue
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Post by: philo_beddoe on February 25, 2016, 07:48:34 am
Post by: VileZambonie on February 25, 2016, 08:37:40 am
It's essentially a stock configuration 350 so you don't need to be overly concerned.
I was dissagreeing with this. To me, a stock flat tappet 350 would cause more concern during break in than a race engine that gets pulled apart every other weekend or more often. That stock engine will probably be in a daily driver that is supposed to last.
And this is called taking something out of context. I clearly stated
Quote
"Any oil formulated with higher levels of ZDDP is fine for your application. It's essentially a stock configuration 350 so you don't need to be overly concerned. Generally the engine rebuilder will supply literature detailing how the cam is broken in or if it even was already. Summit couldn't give you that data?"
Post by: SomeTexan on February 25, 2016, 09:41:28 am
Does "hard driving" cause cam problems? We used to burn rubber all day long back in the day. Never had an engine problem.
A lot of times people go overboard on the valve springs. Too much pressure on stock lifters. And a lot of people don't break them in properly.
Post by: SomeTexan on February 25, 2016, 10:10:25 am
It's essentially a stock configuration 350 so you don't need to be overly concerned.
I was dissagreeing with this. To me, a stock flat tappet 350 would cause more concern during break in than a race engine that gets pulled apart every other weekend or more often. That stock engine will probably be in a daily driver that is supposed to last.
And this is called taking something out of context. I clearly statedQuote"Any oil formulated with higher levels of ZDDP is fine for your application. It's essentially a stock configuration 350 so you don't need to be overly concerned. Generally the engine rebuilder will supply literature detailing how the cam is broken in or if it even was already. Summit couldn't give you that data?"
And that is where I start to get confused. The guy taking your advice went with the additive rather than the oil, and was only going to get half of as much break in oil as he needed. To me that looks as if he, by your recommendation, isn't going to do the whole break in. Either way, to me break in is more important on a stock engine than an all out performance engine. The stock engine is supposed to go a couple hundred thousand miles with minimal maintenance where the performance engine will get freshened up fairly often.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 25, 2016, 01:04:31 pm
Post by: Greybeard on February 25, 2016, 01:34:17 pm
Post by: blazer74 on February 25, 2016, 01:47:45 pm
Ok, i'll mix two bottles of additive.
2 much can be harmful also.
Post by: SomeTexan on February 25, 2016, 02:09:13 pm
Well, there is a third camp on all of this, the drive it like you'll drive it camp. That is the secondary break in after cam break in. This is the camp I lived with back in the day. After the shop floor cam break in just put good quality oil in it, drive it easy for a week or two then bash it the same as you are planning on driving it.
I am in that camp myself, I just consider a good break in oil to be vital. 20-30 min cam break in, change the oil and filter, but use break in oil again. Then you drive it like you are going to drive it for 2-500 miles. Then you change to a good regular oil. Even then, I would stick with a diesel oil for at least a couple oil changes. The diesel oils haven't been stripped of all their good stuff like the car oils. I'm just a stickler for running break in oil at least that far. Personally if I built another flat tappet engine, I would probably run break in oil for another 1000 miles after the initial 500. Just to make sure it had good oil in it while parts are still breaking in. It might be overkill, but when I build something to last, I take all the steps I can to help it. Now, after about 50 miles, I do beat the snot out of an engine. Break in doesn't mean to baby it.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 25, 2016, 02:41:55 pm
Ok, i'll mix two bottles of additive.
2 much can be harmful also.
Ok, 1.5 should do it.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 25, 2016, 07:42:46 pm
Post by: Greybeard on February 25, 2016, 10:43:25 pm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160226/b7921da96aa04cad0f50e0766a1557e0.jpg)
OK..... ???
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 25, 2016, 10:48:01 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 26, 2016, 09:54:23 am
Post by: AZ87V10 on February 26, 2016, 02:57:03 pm
Is the color avatar better than the b/w?
Yes. Much nicer and more modern looking. It fits the truck better.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 26, 2016, 03:22:16 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on February 26, 2016, 09:47:47 pm
Take a look at Amsoil's website. Even if you don't want to use it, they have some really good articles to help you understand oil better. Then you can pick a different brand if you want. After break-in stay away from additives. Pick a good oil and leave it alone. The manufacturers work very hard on the additive packages. If there was a magic additive, they would include it in their blend. Off the shelf additives can react poorly with an oils additive package and actually decrease it's quality. :o
A little research from good sources goes a long way in avoiding wives tales and hear say. ;D
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 26, 2016, 10:31:40 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 28, 2016, 02:02:16 pm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160228/faa494ce2f0ecfef1645b9508f5b8889.jpg)
Post by: gunrac on February 29, 2016, 08:16:24 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 29, 2016, 08:40:47 am
Post by: SomeTexan on February 29, 2016, 10:02:14 am
There additives are everywhere, but i cant find the break in stuff or the regular 10w30 anywhere. Any big chains like pep boys carry it??
A lot of times, all you will find for break in oil is sae30. There is nothing wrong with straight 30 for break in. I would just order a case online where ever you find the best deal. If you want to deal local, try calling some speed shops and engine rebuilders.
Post by: blazer74 on February 29, 2016, 04:36:20 pm
Isn't Vile doing the work for you, anyways.
Post by: philo_beddoe on February 29, 2016, 06:25:35 pm
I'm good with the break in oil, i was just wondering where to get the zddp stuff thereafter...locally, without having to order. But i'll check advanced, we have plenty of those. Thanks,,
Post by: blazer74 on February 29, 2016, 06:41:33 pm
One bottle at oil change with whatever oil you choose.
I use an oil with the oldest rating.(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160301/43513c4d9592df68ea66627fbce597b7.jpg)
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 01, 2016, 09:14:34 pm
Not that this changes anything, just sayin.
Post by: VileZambonie on March 02, 2016, 08:08:06 am
Post by: Rattler12 on March 02, 2016, 09:48:18 am
There additives are everywhere, but i cant find the break in stuff or the regular 10w30 anywhere. Any big chains like pep boys carry it??
Rotella......it comes in standard 30 wt.....Tractor Supply
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 02, 2016, 02:32:23 pm
What do you want to do with the old engine? Do you want it in the bed or do you want me to give it to the school and have one of the Instructors do a tear down for engine lab?
That was one of the questions i had for you. I'll let you know when i see you in the morning.
Post by: VileZambonie on March 02, 2016, 04:29:07 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 03, 2016, 08:25:59 pm
Well, actually there is no vibration anymore, thats because there is no engine anymore! In probably a few hours Vile has removed the cursed 305 and got everything cleaned up and ready for the new 350. The 305 has been donated for training purposes.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160304/5db199665d4ef6d1be5e6df0e190032f.jpg)
Post by: AZ87V10 on March 04, 2016, 02:04:36 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 04, 2016, 11:48:00 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 04, 2016, 03:00:27 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 04, 2016, 04:43:01 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 04, 2016, 06:04:58 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 04, 2016, 09:27:55 pm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160305/178ae5671b75d33268a62b53f6cdfe26.jpg)
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 04, 2016, 09:29:28 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 04, 2016, 10:05:50 pm
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 04, 2016, 10:42:59 pm
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Post by: philo_beddoe on March 05, 2016, 07:18:47 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 06, 2016, 09:35:31 pm
Very exited!!
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 07, 2016, 09:46:35 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 07, 2016, 10:07:23 pm
Truck is complete, should be picking up tomorrow.Oh look at you mister fancy pants. I bet your grinning from ear to ear haha.
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 08, 2016, 06:00:23 am
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Post by: SomeTexan on March 08, 2016, 08:21:49 am
Post by: Greybeard on March 08, 2016, 01:51:12 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on March 08, 2016, 05:23:22 pm
I hope it brings you joy for many years!
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 08, 2016, 06:30:17 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 08, 2016, 06:57:56 pm
Ok, ok already. Picked up truck today, smooth as glass. Takes off like a super sport! And still, Vile got that thing to humm like a sewing machine. I'll post a good video tomorrow. Been burning rubber all over town!! Gonna be hard to sleep tonight. I actually cant wait to go to work tomorrow, might take the long way, back country roads.Hahaha like a kid in a candy store. I'm glad Vile was able to help you out and everything went good.
Post by: Captain Swampy on March 08, 2016, 07:38:47 pm
Ok, ok already. Picked up truck today, smooth as glass. Takes off like a super sport! And still, Vile got that thing to humm like a sewing machine. I'll post a good video tomorrow. Been burning rubber all over town!! Gonna be hard to sleep tonight. I actually cant wait to go to work tomorrow, might take the long way, back country roads.
LOL, Two new rear tires are included in the part when I said " Make an honest estimate, take a 1/3 of that and add it together for your total". Just out of curiosity, how close to the truth did that come?
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 08, 2016, 09:23:47 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 08, 2016, 09:45:25 pm
Post by: blazer74 on March 09, 2016, 12:31:55 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 09, 2016, 06:52:14 am
Well then rotate the fronts to the back and backs to the front and do the same amount of burn outs and then all for tires will be the same again. LolYour a genius! Watch out neighbors!!
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 09, 2016, 06:53:50 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 09, 2016, 08:36:03 am
Careful now, let's not fill my head with any more hot air than its already got! LOLWell then rotate the fronts to the back and backs to the front and do the same amount of burn outs and then all for tires will be the same again. LolYour a genius! Watch out neighbors!!
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 09, 2016, 09:50:41 pm
Post by: Rattler12 on March 10, 2016, 10:00:46 am
Post by: Greybeard on March 10, 2016, 12:53:59 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 10, 2016, 01:05:29 pm
Post by: Greybeard on March 10, 2016, 01:18:28 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 10, 2016, 03:32:50 pm
Post by: SomeTexan on March 10, 2016, 03:44:25 pm
Lot of reading there,,simple question here, whats overall best and safest for these older type engines, regular or super?
It depends. If it runs right on regular, use it. Extra octane slows down the burning of the fuel and will cost you efficiency unless you need the extra octane to avoid pinging. You can adjust the timing to control that, but depending on your build you may advance or retard past the engines most efficient setting. It's been proven on the dyno that the old "advance until it pings, then back off a few degrees" method can cost you power and efficiency.
Post by: Irish_Alley on March 10, 2016, 11:03:26 pm
Lot of reading there,,simple question here, whats overall best and safest for these older type engines, regular or super?the way i understand it you base your fuel type off your compression ratio.
rule of thumb we use for this old cast heads are
87 is good for 9.1:1
91 is good for 10.5:1
93 is good for 11.5:1
but theres no real rule of thumb cause it depends on a few aspects and intake temps play another role and you will get multiple answers for this. but if you put 91 in something that doesnt need 91 you wont get more power just a bigger fuel bill. if you put 87 into something that needs 91 you will cause pinging and the engine to overheat. if you put 87 into a newer car with automatic timing and 91 is required the ecm will retard the timing for you to protect your engine but at the same time robbing you of power cause the more timing you can add the more power you can put out (in most cases)
Post by: Captain Swampy on March 12, 2016, 07:44:42 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on March 12, 2016, 07:51:53 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on March 13, 2016, 11:37:49 am
Post by: bd on March 13, 2016, 12:06:02 pm
Post by: Greybeard on March 13, 2016, 12:24:57 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 13, 2016, 10:36:33 pm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160314/55092ae0874bd4c7188241366b2ed97c.jpg)
Post by: roundhouse on March 13, 2016, 10:40:10 pm
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Post by: philo_beddoe on March 14, 2016, 07:12:33 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 14, 2016, 07:57:22 am
Post by: zieg85 on March 14, 2016, 08:47:13 am
Nice. Flip the lid on the air filter so you can hear the four barrel...
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I use to use 3/8" fuel line cut to length and electrical taped the circumference of the air filter and used that as a gasket of sorts. That way it was barely noticeable and had the same effect. You got the roar but kept the stock appearance.
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 14, 2016, 09:19:00 am
Nice. Flip the lid on the air filter so you can hear the four barrel...This was cool from the age of 16 to 21. It serves no purpose other than to make a cool sound and look ridiculous. Please don't do this, your truck is to nice to do something so silly.
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Post by: philo_beddoe on March 14, 2016, 01:51:02 pm
Well stated!!Nice. Flip the lid on the air filter so you can hear the four barrel...This was cool from the age of 16 to 21. It serves no purpose other than to make a cool sound and look ridiculous. Please don't do this, your truck is to nice to do something so silly.
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Post by: Greybeard on March 14, 2016, 02:25:42 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 14, 2016, 04:53:26 pm
Post by: blazer74 on March 14, 2016, 05:11:24 pm
Never liked or bought into the K&N hype.
I run a GM dual snorkel air cleaner off a corvette on my 74K5.
I don't have the carb heat tubes hooked up tho due to headers. Never had a problem with carb icing even in with the temp in the teens so never bothered.
I do have the stock cleaner if I want the stock look. My year didn't have the clean/cold air intake tube.
75 was the first year for that.
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 14, 2016, 05:59:20 pm
A washable k&n type filter between to chrome pie plates would do more harm than good on his vehicle specifically and it would not appear factory either like he wants. I did the pie plates with washable filter and then I put the stock housing back on and put a Delco paper filter in it and the air quality going to the engine is much better. Washable filters don't filter as good as the paper units do. This is entirely a topic for a separate post but the type of air induction is not suited for what he wants or requires. And remember, the pie plates help with sound but not mpg's. The factory unit draws cooler air from the front, cooler air helps with better mpg's and power and efficiency. Drawing air from all around the engine where it's over 200° is actually counter productive. I had issues with cold drive ability and choke operation, all caused by pie plate air intakes. GM didn't spend millions on R & D to be outsmarted by an over priced 30 dollar washable air filter and 2 pie plates from grandma's kitchen. Philo, your current setup is proper, functional and reliable. Enjoy your truck.Love the last sentence, thanks!!
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 14, 2016, 08:24:08 pm
Post by: Captain Swampy on March 15, 2016, 06:43:15 pm
If it was mine I couldn't resist the urge to put a set of stainless shorty headers on it. I'm glad there are guys like you that keep them original.
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 15, 2016, 08:49:23 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 26, 2016, 06:10:29 pm
I started this post on oct. 17, 2015. Over 450 replies later and thousands of views, i am finally at rest with the "bad vibration"
About a couple months ago Vile performed a killer tune-up on my 305 and at the same time diagnosed the main problem. Not counting the vibration, that 305 was so well tuned, it was a shame we had to ditch it for a brand new crate gm goodwrench 350. About a month ago he installed the new motor, and during the break-in period it got a little boggy, some popping from the carb and starting was a little rough. No problem, Vile had me over his shop today and did some timing and carb adjustments. After a couple test runs i couldnt be happier with the results. It's real fast, real smooth, tight, idles like a sewing machine and starts at the touch of the key...No popping,,no bogging.
I guess this thread can finally go down as RESOLVED!
Additionally, Vile has inspired me to get intimate with my truck, tinkering and tweaking, fixing and tuning. I am encouraged to learn the theory of how all the working mechanisms operate, and how to diagnose and make my own repairs correctly. A little red neck patching now and then is ok too i guess. We all do it.
Thanks for all the input from everyone. Sure glad i found this site.
- philo beddoe
Ps. Now i can finally drive it like i stole it!!
Post by: zieg85 on March 26, 2016, 09:53:06 pm
Post by: Greybeard on March 26, 2016, 09:55:18 pm
BTY- it really does not take many tools to tear too far into an old Chevy. When I was young and four wheeling when ever I could find a dirt road, I carried a small tackle box of tools. A 12" adjustable wrench, some good screwdrivers, a small 1/2" drive socket set (just the sockets necessary that fit (everything from about 3/8"-3/4" with a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter, ratchet, breaker bar, and extensions), some hex keys (Allen keys/wrenches), some electric tape, some teflon tape, some plumbers putty, of course some good sticky duct tape, two sets of combination wrenches, a set of 12AWG jumper wires 15' long, a test light, and a partial roll of mechanics wire (annealed 16 gauge wire). With this I was able to fix nearly anything that broke on my truck. Two of everything worked the best. Then I contrast that little tool box with my younger brothers toolbox in his garage. A Mac box total of six feet high and about eight feet long with at least $40,000 worth of Snap-on and Mac tools in it. And he isn't even a professional mechanic! Just a shade tree mechanic like me. I guess he with the most toys wins.
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 26, 2016, 10:21:40 pm
Anywho...this "bad vibration" is history.
Post by: philo_beddoe on April 14, 2016, 09:38:59 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 14, 2016, 10:30:10 pm