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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => 4 Wheel Drives => Topic started by: Fulltimechevy89 on January 30, 2016, 01:35:17 am
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So I am in the market for some locking hubs for my 77 Chevy K10 pickup...any recommendations on what brand? I looked at Warn and they seemed pretty solid.
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Warn or Mile Marker.
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Warn or Mile Marker.
x2
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Lets all ask the proper question before giving answers.
Do you have a NP203 or NP205? If you have a NP203 locking hubs won't do you much good without other work. If you have a NP205 then giver
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lol missed the fact his name is also fulltimechevy. wonder if it is 203 now...
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What;s a NP203 or NP205? I know it is not a Dana 44 axle but a GM
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http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=30295.0
you will find a lot of info in our tech section.
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?board=5.0
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Thanks for the info. I am pretty sure it is a NP203 since the shift pattern I have is LOW LOC, LOW, N, HIGH and HI LOC. But I would have to confirm this by looking at it. What should I look for?
It's a 77 4x4 350 custom deluxe short bed
Thanks in advance
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Depending on how dirty it is there should be a metal data tag on it, forget if it's front or back side.
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Thanks for the info. I am pretty sure it is a NP203 since the shift pattern I have is LOW LOC, LOW, N, HIGH and HI LOC. But I would have to confirm this by looking at it. What should I look for?
It's a 77 4x4 350 custom deluxe short bed
Thanks in advance
Just look at the back side of the transfer case. Its most likely a NP203 so locking hubs won't do you any good.
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unless you have the part time kit installed. what hubs do you have now?
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Okay...I'll take a look when the weather clears up. The hubs that are on it now are the ones that came on it, as far as I know they are not automatic hubs. So I did change the bearings out and it appears to have two 4 prong nuts that hold the bearings in, a spring, and a flange which all held with a clip.
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Got a few pics of my transfer case...let me know what you guys think and I appreciate any answer.
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That would be a NP203. You probably have slugs in the hubs for your truck. You would need a few more parts than just locking hubs.
You would need a Mile Marker part time kit as well as locking hubs to make them work properly.
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Take the front drive shaft out. Try to drive it. If it wont move in two wheel drive the case has not had a part time kit installed.
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Couldn't you drive it anyway even without a kit? Because technically isn't it all the power just going to the Back wheels? Thanks
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That's the "flaw" in the 203 it acts like a open differential. It give all the power to the wheels that slip. So if you take the front shaft out all the power goes to the front and you won't move unless you go into Hi or low "lock" . lock will lock the differential into a position unit and both front and rear shafts will get full power
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You can run with just locking hubs without the kit in the T/C, been running around for near 15+ years that way but some don't agree.
Like was said, when the hubs are unlocked you will have to run the T/C in lock. Just don't run in lock with the hubs engaged on dry pavement.
With the part time kit installed in the T/C you have to engage the T/C every what 100 miles to lubricate the rear bearing. If it's your daily driver that could get old.
Without the T/C kit your still driving the front driveshaft and diff it's just not connected to the wheels which reduces the stresses on the drivetrain during turns.
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the ideal behind the part time kit is to save fuel. the 203 being full time turns everything all the time kind of waist fuel if its not needed. the part time kit will turn the 203 into a regular transfer case and only turn the rear wheels in hi unlock. with the full time 203 and manual hubs the only thing youre not turning is the front wheel. the front drive shaft still turns the front differential still turns. which will still cost you fuel, not as much as keeping it stock form but it wont help much.
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Believe it or not.. I've had issues with the full time on dry pavement because of how it works :\ I honestly hate the NP203 and probably going to swap it out.
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In my humble opinion the only good thing about the 203 is the parts used to make the 205 a doubler.
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I always liked the full time
Aside from the mpg
But I lived in the mountains and in always liked the way the full time drive around the curves even on pavement. Made it feel much more secure. Didn't get the feeling that the front wheels were just going to plow right off the edge of a cliff because they didn't want to turn
And with a 130 HP engine. Wo hoo. A real hot rod
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The old Dodges were plagued by notoriously weak self locking front hubs instead of direct drive hubs. I had two buddies that had those style of Dodges. never heard more complaining in my life about getting stuck. I believe they were as bad or worse than the self locking hubs they put on Scouts in late 78. Going into trouble was good, backing out, impossible. It didn't take much wear on those hubs to destroy their ability to hold while backing up. Of course, that is because they had a sort of ratcheting system in them, a one way clutch sort of. Would pull good going forward.
Dodges that had the early 203 full times on the other hand, most kids (I mean my peers in our early twenties) couldn't wait to trade them off. They would not wheel good. The wheel wells would not accept larger tires without major cutting. The stock 318 was a known cold-blooded beast from birth. But I'm getting off track...
Maybe a good 203 on a chebie was a good unit. Some of the axle shafts had a direct bolted/splined connection to the hub so not much to deal with there, the one I have had an adapter piece to lock the axle shaft to the hub, piss poor design actually. I tossed the 203 I had in the scrap pile when I took it out of my current truck. Never even thought to keep it. I don't know that the doubler setup had been thought of yet though. About a decade or more ago?
I bought a new Silverado in 2000 with all the bells and whistles on it. The four wheel system (I forget what it was called) was an automatic setup. Just turn a knob and it chose when to work and when not to. It was awesome. Never took the truck off the road though except for my gravel roads between the house and the blacktop. Had many (many) issues with the fuel injection. Must have had the injectors replaced six time in the first two years. I don't believe it was a design flaw, they were simply to precision for the poor quality of gas here in Iowa. They clogged.
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People also forget there are two variations of the NP203 ;) The older style and newer style. The old style was stopped being produced around 75 I think? I know this because if you get a mile marker part time kit the older style require a spacer which doesn't come with the kit.
Newer NP203s don't require this spacer making things easier to install.
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Believe it or not.. I've had issues with the full time on dry pavement because of how it works :\ I honestly hate the NP203 and probably going to swap it out.
Loc or AWD?
If you change it use a NP208 2.62:1 low range or, if you can find one, a RH drop NP241 with 2.72:1 low. The NP205 is exceedingly heavy in comparison and has an anemic 1.96:1 low range.
I have a new NP208 behind the NV4500 in my 76... Zero issues. The "chain drive problem" is as real as a Jackalope.
My Droid from orbit
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Believe it or not.. I've had issues with the full time on dry pavement because of how it works :\ I honestly hate the NP203 and probably going to swap it out.
Loc or AWD?
If you change it use a NP208 2.62:1 low range or, if you can find one, a RH drop NP241 with 2.72:1 low. The NP205 is exceedingly heavy in comparison and has an anemic 1.96:1 low range.
I have a new NP208 behind the NV4500 in my 76... Zero issues. The "chain drive problem" is as real as a Jackalope.
My Droid from orbit
I'm always driving in "HI" and anytime you go around a sharp turn you can feel the front wheels grabbing on the dry pavement.
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Believe it or not.. I've had issues with the full time on dry pavement because of how it works :\ I honestly hate the NP203 and probably going to swap it out.
Loc or AWD?
If you change it use a NP208 2.62:1 low range or, if you can find one, a RH drop NP241 with 2.72:1 low. The NP205 is exceedingly heavy in comparison and has an anemic 1.96:1 low range.
I have a new NP208 behind the NV4500 in my 76... Zero issues. The "chain drive problem" is as real as a Jackalope.
My Droid from orbit
I'm always driving in "HI" and anytime you go around a sharp turn you can feel the front wheels grabbing on the dry pavement.
That may be an artifact of not having CV joints in the outboard front axles. It could also point to failure of one or both of the Spicer 5-297X/5-760X outboard axle U-Joint(s).
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I just rebuilt the entire front end with all new ujoints and ball joints. it's the nature of the beast with full time 4wd.
you feel the same effect in newer trucks if you drive in 4wd on pavement.
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Isn't the 203 supposed to use the differential inside the t-case even when in lock? There are two type of issues involved with the front grabbing, one is common to most locked together four wheel systems such the 205 system, the gears get 'bound up' when driven on pavement causing either the front or rear to skip/hop, this happens all the time but is worse turning.
The other is the locker syndrome. Anyone with a part time locked front end understands this one. It is like the rear end squeal/hop going around corners but because the steering is present at the front it is transmitted back to the driver through the steering wheel. As one wheel tries to turn at a different speed the other has two choices, spin on the pavement or unlock the locker if possible. If it is an air-locker or similar, I don't believe unlocking is an option. So every time one wheel chirps it transmits back through the steering.
In my experience neither of these situations feels the same as loose or bad axle components. Bad parts feel uniform in it's pulses since it only pulses when the bad part is under load. By pulses I mean jumps. It will feel different depending on which way the wheels are turned.
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The 203 locks the diff inside when it's in Loc. That's why you can drive it with the front shaft out when you set it in Loc and otherwise it just spins.
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The 203 locks the diff inside when it's in Loc. That's why you can drive it with the front shaft out when you set it in Loc and otherwise it just spins.
Or just get some locking hubs and unlock them LOL. Did that accidentally.
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That makes sense...Loc....means loc-ked :o ::) :-[