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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Fuel Systems and Drivability => Topic started by: dopeeye on February 28, 2016, 01:42:00 pm
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1975 Chevy C10 with a 350.
Replacing the mechanical fuel pump i mush have messed up the push rod, it is currently jammed in the block with no rotation or any sort of movement. Pump and mounting plate are off, i can barely get a pair of channel locks on there but it wont budge.
Unless someone has a brilliant idea of removing the rod that does not involve welding anything on there i am inclined to switch to a electric fuel pump. Is there a good write-up on how to go about that ?
thanks
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Ok, so you were attempting to replace the fuel pump, you tried to install the rod into the block, now it's stuck in there and won't budge? So your thinking you pushed it to far or inserted it wrong?
It will only go far enough in to the block until it stops at the drive lobe on the camshaft.
If it's in the block and won't move and you can't pull it down, unplug the B+ power wire (the thick red wire) on the distributor, then just bump the starter using the ignition. Like you are trying to start it but so it only turns over a little at a time. The cam drive lobe will rotate and hopefully pop it free.
Do this first and then report back with your findings.
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1975 Chevy C10 with a 350.
Replacing the mechanical fuel pump i mush have messed up the push rod, it is currently jammed in the block with no rotation or any sort of movement. Pump and mounting plate are off, i can barely get a pair of channel locks on there but it wont budge.
Did you remove anything else from the motor to gain a little better access? One of the bolt holes on the front of the block is drilled through into the pushrod bore. The hole is there so a "long" bolt can be inserted to retain the pushrod during pump replacement. The bolt that normally threads into that hole is shorter than the adjacent bolts, yet often is used to retain various mounting brackets. If you inadvertently swapped the "short bolt" with a longer one, it will lock the pushrod solid.
Another, albeit slim, possibility is that the pushrod was bent while tightening the fuel pump bolts. If that is the case, defeating the ignition and then bumping the starter with the fuel pump and plate removed as suggested by LTZ may pop it loose. You can check its linearity by rolling it on a flat surface once you get it out.
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Already tried bumping the starter, I turned it over several times but the rod wont budge. I never messed with the screw that is in some cases used to hold the rod in place during install. My guess is that I bent or scratched the rod during install and when i moved it into the block it got jammed.
I tried several tricks to get the rod to move (i.e tapping a 12mm socket over it to rotate it but with no success) the rod is in the block goodandtight.
I am heading down the path of electrical pump, can anyone suggest a decent conversion kit or do i just get a universal pump and be done with it ?
Thanks for the suggestions so far
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can you push it in any farther? i dont mean hammer it in im just wondering if it loosens up once it is pushed in a little bit. you may be able to push it in then bump the starter again to budge it free
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back to BD's point, did you remove the bolt to ensure it is not binding against the rod?
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Double check and make absolutely sure that the bolt is not holding the rod tight. Then if you only bumped if over a few times and it didn't budge, maybe holding the starter engaged long enough for it to make 4, 5 or 6 full rotations may be better. The lobe may have been on the beginning of the low side and a few bumps only brought it to the beginning of the high side and so it needs to travel over the high side of the lobe a few times to break it free.
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The bolt was not touched since i got the truck 3 years ago, it was running fine until a few weeks ago when it started stalling. I rebuilt the carburetor, re-ran all the vac lines. My latest step was to replace the fuel filter and the fuel pump. While I have not actually checked the bolt, there is no way the bolt would have been replaced since it was running fine before. I tried tapping it and cranking the engine multiple turns, no movement.
thanks
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I have used a shop vac in older sludged up engines to suck the rod out... It's worth a shot.
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I have decided for now to go with an electrical pump, so i can at least use the truck till i find someone with a mig welder and a steady had that can weld something onto that rod.
Any suggestions on which pump or are they pretty much universal ?
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I have decided for now to go with an electrical pump, so i can at least use the truck till i find someone with a mig welder and a steady had that can weld something onto that rod.
Any suggestions on which pump or are they pretty much universal ?
If your in SE Georgia then I got a MIG, tig and a mildly steady hand.
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That rod rides on the camshaft and pushes the pump lever, how could it be stuck inside when you have rotated the engine?
That would push it out mechanically.
There's no give there.
Something's sounds quite wrong there, seems to me. I'd be concerned with internal damage
That rod has to come down to get the camshaft out or it will interfere with the cam lobes.
Every Time I've changed a fuel pump holding the rod up is the issue, always wants to slide down.
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Thanks for the offer but I am in Seattle, unless its all down hill from here :)
My guess is that the rod in in its lowest (pump lever compressed) position, and unless i hammer on it it wont go back into the bore, so there is nothing for the cam lobe to push on.
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I think at this point, pictures are worth a thousand words.
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So it's not all the way up to where You can't get a hold on it with something and pull twist out?
You can replace it if you damage it.
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Work it in and out, if the bolt isn't holding it in it will come out. The only thing stopping it is either a burr or crusty carbon.
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The rod must be damaged or something is wedged in with it. Try taking the bolt out and attempting to move the rod with a scribe or something of the sort.
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I wonder if the rod got bent somehow and its stuck in the block somewhere? :\
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Pretty thick rod.
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Unless you mangled the rod with vise grips, varnish buildup on a portion of the rod is a good bet. Remove the "short bolt" to which I earlier referred and spray a healthy dose of B12 into the hole, then tap the rod up into the hole with a brass drift and work the rod like Vile suggested. Don't beat it against the camshaft with a big hammer or you run the risk of damaging the cam. With some conviction and B12 you are bound to loosen it up.
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Not to mention that if you hit it too hard with hammer like BD said not to do, you could crack the cam and it would break off, that would be very no bueno.
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Like LTZ C20 said, make sure the bolt on the front of the block is not screwed in all the way and touching the rod. I use a longer bolt when changing a fuel pump and switch to a shorter bolt that will not reach all the way through when finished.
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Update:
Thanks for all the suggestions. I ended up putting an electric fuel pump on the truck and its running like a charm now. However the root of the stall problem which got me into this mess turns out to be water in the tank. After I installed the fuel pump I ran into a clear canister to verify the pump is running, the result is shown in the attached picture.
After a few gallons of fuel pumping out of the tank I think i got most of the water out.
I do feel a bit stupid now but that's the problem with Seattle I guess, the rain finds it way into anything.
Going to get a blank off plate for where the fuel pump went and when i find a nice guy with a welder see if i can get that rod out, until then its going for a ride. I checked it with the engine running, no tapping or any sight of contact with the cam.
Now how do I make sure that I get all the water out of the tank? Anyone got a cross section of the tank? I want to make sure i get all the water out before i go for a ride. Do i put the truck level, uphill or down hill to get the majority of the water out ?
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Update:
Now how do I make sure that I get all the water out of the tank? Anyone got a cross section of the tank? I want to make sure i get all the water out before i go for a ride. Do i put the truck level, uphill or down hill to get the majority of the water out ?
Your fuel draw is more direct towards the center of the tank, a couple inches off the bottom.
The correct way would be dropping the tank.......But, you probably know that and looking to short cut.
On a permanent tank I have on my chipper, I jacked up to create a low corner, and used a cheap transfer pump. In order for that to work in your case, unbolt bed and slide back to gain access to the top of the tank.....you may as well drop the tank once you get that far. The new hangers you will probably need to buy will pay for themselves after you figure in the price of several cans of dry gas you will end up going thru....
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i wouldnt run it with that rod in there your gonna lose that motor when it comes flying loose which by the way i cant even fathom how it is so stuck that you cant get it out -something isnt right .
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I found this on the subject...
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/37435/
read the part about the motor mount bolt.
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I found this on the subject...
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/37435/
read the part about the motor mount bolt.
What worries me now is what causes a rod to get stuck and/or bent? Stuck due to lack of oil i could see, but what would cause it to bend?
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I found this on the subject...
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/37435/
read the part about the motor mount bolt.
Yup it can happen and if so.. That cam will be toast.