Post by: LTZ C20 on March 08, 2016, 12:08:38 am
Things to be done include:
-new front suspension
-new front steering
-new front brakes
-new rear suspension
-new rear brakes in the form of a disc brake conversion
Let's just say that with all the new stuff I got for the front, my tax return didn't last long, in fact, it's gone, like a fart in the wind hahaha.
I will attempt to keep a bit of a structure with this thread. Beginning first with the front steering and suspension components being done first together. Then the rear suspension. Then after that the front and rear brakes together.
Post by: firefighter on March 08, 2016, 11:02:00 am
I'd say you're gonna do it right !!!!
Can't wait to follow the progress.
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 08, 2016, 01:58:44 pm
-inner tie rods
-outer tie rods
-adjuster sleeves
-upper control arms
-HD coil springs
-Pitman arm
-idler arm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160308/7d4d02e740243595f4b2cb926c2870d4.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160308/328b2d1abf0bb4b99309e3525821a6fe.jpg)
Everything that is already painted will remain as such, any bare metal will be cleaned, primed and painted with VHT Roll Bar & Chassis paint. The paint is about 80% for rust and road grime prevention, 20% to look pretty.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160308/34e9868d6370e78aba0ddb24899a627d.jpg)
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 08, 2016, 02:44:23 pm
-lower control arms
-hardware and mounting parts for various front end pieces
-bump stops and sway bar bushings
-bolt on steering shock absorber kit
-shock mount frame brace kit
I got as much AC Delco parts from work as I could, the lower control arms I got didn't match up so they were returned and I got Moog replacements from Rock Auto. I will post pics as those arrive of course. I'm not going to replace the shocks just yet. I replaced them about 5 years ago, but I wanted to get the suspension and everything done and the see how it feels and drives and then make a decision on shocks. I currently have Monroe Gas-Magnums for 3/4 tons on it now, I may get those again or go to something better.
Post by: cvbear on March 08, 2016, 07:24:57 pm
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 08, 2016, 08:32:33 pm
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Post by: LTZ C20 on March 08, 2016, 08:56:26 pm
looks like a great project! Where are you getting your shock mount brace from?Thanks. Summit Racing and a few off road shop like Off Road Design sell them.
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 08, 2016, 08:58:03 pm
Going rubber or polyurethane for bushings?Little bit of both. Everything with a dust boot is all brand new rubber but the sway bar bushings and the rear spring bushing will all be poly. My body mounts and engine/trans mounts are all poly. It just didn't seem logical to replace all that brand new rubber boots with more brand new boots. It seemed redundant seeing as how they come with them already.
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Post by: LTZ C20 on March 10, 2016, 04:59:33 am
Today I got:
- lower shock mount bolts, lock washers &nuts
-lower A-arm mounting brackets
-lower A-arm mounting U bolts w/ washers & nuts
-upper & lower bump stops, both sets rubber
-upper shock mount reinforcement kit
-steering shock absorber kit like 4x4s have but for 2 wheel drive. It looks like a pretty nice kit.
There is some hardware that will need to be painted.
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 10, 2016, 07:05:00 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 10, 2016, 10:02:33 am
I spent $1200 on front end parts. The rear will be cheaper, whether I replace or restore the rear springs it still shouldn't be more than 400-500. New hardware in the rear also, nuts & bolts, U bolts, bushings, all that good stuff. Then about 500 to do the rear disc conversion, that's including the conversion parts, brake pads, rotors, soft brake lines, axle seals, bearings and all that. Then I'm going to do the front brakes, new calipers, soft lines, rotors, pads, bearings and all that, so might budget 250-300 or so for the front. And I plan on replacing all 32 wheel studs also.
So, if you use another members advice and add a little extra just in case, shouldn't be more than 3,000 LOL. 3 times what I paid for the truck when I bought it. I've spent about 13,000 on it in the last 3 or so years tho.
I buy what I can when I can, then when I have all the parts, I set aside a weekend to do it all. My current work schedule makes it easier because I work Tues-Friday and I have Sat, Sun, Monday off. So I just wait till I have a weekend free and then I have 3 days to work on it and the parts store is open all 3 days just in case.
But who knows, I'm starting the recruiting process for my counties Sheriff's department so the project could be put on hold for what ever reason. If I need to do a lot to get hired and I have to be driving to and from appointments, I won't be taking the truck apart.
Its really my only addiction tho.
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 10, 2016, 11:28:26 am
http://www.monroe.com/en-US/catalog/e-Catalog/SA1932
Everything I got in the kit is exactly like the picture.
You guys think I should get a boot, I've heard varying opinions for and against.
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 10, 2016, 01:58:16 pm
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Post by: LTZ C20 on March 10, 2016, 03:42:55 pm
What's the deal here, my current arms are exactly the same just opposites. Is there something I'm missing or is this really just bad luck?
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 10, 2016, 03:44:56 pm
No boot, tends to hold water- I have boots on my shocks, but I pull and routinely clean under them, mainly cause I see a lot of mud, dirt and salt, the boots help just a little bitThat's what I've heard. But mines 2 wheel drive, no mud, no snow, water only if I wash the under side or hit a huge puddle, which I always try to avoid. Just want to keep the shaft safe and dust free.
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Post by: enaberif on March 10, 2016, 04:05:57 pm
Ok I ordered 2 lower control arms from work, both were Delco brand. Left side didn't match the right. So I returned them, and ordered a set of Moog arms from Rock Auto. Got them today, the left side doesn't match the right!
What's the deal here, my current arms are exactly the same just opposites. Is there something I'm missing or is this really just bad luck?
Did your parts come in official Moog or AC Delco boxes? I've ordered stuff from RA before that was supposed to be Moog and ended up getting some weird 3rd party crap.
If you have Moog parts it should say on it somewhere.
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 10, 2016, 04:11:21 pm
Boots offer a small amount of protection as long as you routinely clean behind it, same thing with items such as wheel bearings and seals. Eventually you need to pull and inspect and then replace, on a street driven vehicle it is IMO unnecessary, and can lead to premature wear, something I myself would consider as outweighing any benefit
This is of course just my take on the whole scenario
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Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 10, 2016, 04:17:30 pm
Case in point, some Ford Rangers had weak ball joints and Moog made new control arms to fit a better designed ball joint. All new ball joints (including OEM) would only fit the new arm, so the whole arm had to be replaced when doing ball joints for the first time
I am just speculating this may be the case here
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Post by: LTZ C20 on March 10, 2016, 04:27:04 pm
Ok I ordered 2 lower control arms from work, both were Delco brand. Left side didn't match the right. So I returned them, and ordered a set of Moog arms from Rock Auto. Got them today, the left side doesn't match the right!
What's the deal here, my current arms are exactly the same just opposites. Is there something I'm missing or is this really just bad luck?
Did your parts come in official Moog or AC Delco boxes? I've ordered stuff from RA before that was supposed to be Moog and ended up getting some weird 3rd party crap.
If you have Moog parts it should say on it somewhere.
Yes, both Delco arms were in Delco boxes and both Moog parts were in moog boxes. The arms themselves have no physical indication of the manufacturer, if you took them all out of the boxes and set them all in a line, you would not be able to tell which company made which arms.
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 10, 2016, 04:27:30 pm
The double seal on the piston shaft will do that. Water and dirt(always on the road, mostly from other cars when getting on from dirt roads etc) it is the slow accumulation in the boot that leads to wearing out the shaft seal, and shaft itself.Maybe I'll just pass on the boots then.
Boots offer a small amount of protection as long as you routinely clean behind it, same thing with items such as wheel bearings and seals. Eventually you need to pull and inspect and then replace, on a street driven vehicle it is IMO unnecessary, and can lead to premature wear, something I myself would consider as outweighing any benefit
This is of course just my take on the whole scenario
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Post by: LTZ C20 on March 10, 2016, 04:35:20 pm
In reply to the control arms, sometimes the aftermarket will improve a design if it sees fit(AC Delco is aftermarket, at the same time being an OEM supplier)That makes sense, but in this situation it doesn't. Case in point, Delco left arm does not match Delco right arm.
Case in point, some Ford Rangers had weak ball joints and Moog made new control arms to fit a better designed ball joint. All new ball joints (including OEM) would only fit the new arm, so the whole arm had to be replaced when doing ball joints for the first time
I am just speculating this may be the case here
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Delco right arm does match my truck.
Moog left arm does not match Moog right arm.
Moog left arm does match my truck.
So, Delco right arm and Moog left arm match my truck and each other perfectly. They are exactly the same in every way. So that's what I'm going to use.
So I have to return the Moog right arm and re-purchase the Delco right arm because I was already refunded that money.
The two arms I'm not using don't even match my truck or each other.
This whole situation hurts my brain.....
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 11, 2016, 08:01:38 am
A lower a-arm that's right!Well...technically it's actually a left a-arm. Oh who cares, it's correct.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160311/3ed230e8857ab1bd99450d365df808e7.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160311/8d8127d91804d00cc69da80922de21d4.jpg)
Oh yea, the green plastic in the corner of the first pic, it's that air bubble stuff that has perforated sides. They felt it necessary to put this arm, that's already in a box, inside another box with 40 feet of that air bubble stuff.
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 11, 2016, 08:29:24 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 11, 2016, 09:03:50 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 11, 2016, 09:14:29 pm
Post by: bd on March 11, 2016, 09:20:49 pm
Ladies and germs, if it pleases the court and I'm sure it will. If it don't then oh well, it makes me feel better!
A lower a-arm that's right!Well...technically it's actually a left a-arm. Oh who cares, it's correct.
Oh yea, the green plastic in the corner of the first pic, it's that air bubble stuff that has perforated sides. They felt it necessary to put this arm, that's already in a box, inside another box with 40 feet of that air bubble stuff.
Well you know what they say. "Whatever's left can't be right."
Save the green pillows. They're a great stress reliever when you break em.
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 11, 2016, 09:33:24 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 13, 2016, 05:05:03 pm
Anyway, if you guys wouldn't mind posting pics of 73-80 trucks with steps. 2 or 4wd doesn't matter, color doesn't matter, just for reference tho, mine is a white 2wd 3/4 ton.
As long as they aren't any style, design or variation of steps like these, because honestly I don't like these one bit, they are hideous.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160313/20a383d29e6ab76be22063343dcb49a1.jpg)
Thanks all.
Post by: enaberif on March 13, 2016, 10:58:58 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 13, 2016, 11:14:13 pm
Unfortunately the only ones that really work are nerf bars. Most of those hoop steps bolt to the inner rocker which I don't like.I'm fine with nerf bars, those I would bolt to the frame. The hoop style steps are stupid and I would never bolt or screw anything to the body.
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 15, 2016, 05:01:33 pm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160315/f8bbaf436046d2bbd2b9a9dc070aebb6.jpg)
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 15, 2016, 07:36:32 pm
no.
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 15, 2016, 08:38:44 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 15, 2016, 08:41:20 pm
So now I think other than sway bar bushings and shocks, I should have everything. The bushing I should be able to get at O'Reilly's and the shocks, well we already covered my plan for them.
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 15, 2016, 10:22:01 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 16, 2016, 11:17:02 am
Post by: Irish_Alley on March 16, 2016, 06:13:22 pm
Nice factory GM look,,,,lol
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160315/f8bbaf436046d2bbd2b9a9dc070aebb6.jpg)
this must be for a ford owner. cause us chevy owners know to open the door before you step on the step to climb in
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 16, 2016, 07:23:27 pm
LMAO.Nice factory GM look,,,,lol
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160315/f8bbaf436046d2bbd2b9a9dc070aebb6.jpg)
this must be for a ford owner. cause us chevy owners know to open the door before you step on the step to climb in
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 16, 2016, 08:35:51 pm
Yeah...good observation!!Nice factory GM look,,,,lol
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160315/f8bbaf436046d2bbd2b9a9dc070aebb6.jpg)
this must be for a ford owner. cause us chevy owners know to open the door before you step on the step to climb in
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 17, 2016, 04:33:15 pm
I'm looking at getting a few 90° zerks to make lubing easier and the little rubber covers the keep them clean.
Post by: bd on March 17, 2016, 07:32:03 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 17, 2016, 10:01:20 pm
Should be 1/4" x 28 TPI taper thread.So all of them, regardless of location, are the same?
Post by: bd on March 18, 2016, 12:31:07 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 18, 2016, 02:21:54 am
I had the truck up on one of the lifts at work today and had a grease gun in my hand. I went to each fitting and attempted to grease it cleanly, quickly and easily. I found that there could be some improvements.
The current arrangement of fittings is:
-The upper control arms, on their chassis side, have 90° fittings, all of which point in a slightly seperate directions.
-All other fittings are straight. This makes access a bit difficult in some spots.
My plan is to change the fittings out so that:
-the upper control arms have 45° zerks.
-the upper ball joints have 45°s and the lower ball joints have 90° zerks.
-the lower control arms have 90°s on front facing zerks and straight fitting for the rear facing zerks.
-the outer tie rods will get 45° fittings and the inner tie rods will get 90° fittings.
-the pitman arm and idler arm will both get one 90° each, leaving one fitting on the idler a straight zerk.
Here are some pics to help. Observe the current positions of the fittings. Then imagine each with the fittings changed to the degree listed above for each part. Note: the lower ball joint, inner tie Rod and lower idler arm fittings are not visible in the pics.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160318/16e975198543da0df73a9c9076b2fbc6.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160318/fdc5d7c32ae1bb16295b8b896e27aa19.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160318/27eace01c2b34b18245836813ce2324e.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160318/7069df59501a0d8b99cae9f8e5b45f24.jpg)
Also, I would like to install grease fitting dust caps, where would be the best place to find caps like this? I don't need fancy colors, black is just fine.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160318/e3431c18be62550b4cfb1ebcffec58e4.jpg)
Post by: brewster on March 20, 2016, 09:16:31 am
Here is the link:
https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0425915;jsessionid=73EEB7DFB6B49183F3ED3BA75B2E2DC1.fcomjvm01?r=~|categoryl1:%22603582%20Power%20Transmission%209and%20Motors%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22610430%20Grease%20Fitting%20Products%22|~%20~|categoryl3:%22609893%20Grease%20Fitting%20Caps%22|~
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Post by: LTZ C20 on March 20, 2016, 02:48:56 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 20, 2016, 03:19:01 pm
Yesterday was paint day, lots of painting actually. Just about everything got painted, except hardware, nuts and bolts and what not. Since I'm getting different grease zerks, installed the ones that came with all the parts to plug the grease holes. Then I taped off what I didn't want painted and used my "professional" painting skills to not paint to much of anything else. Anyway, if you guys divert your attention to the screen, we will proceed with the slide show.
Now these six pictures are of everything I wanted painted hanging up ready to be brake cleaned and primed.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/18bfe0dd1f2e76009fdc0ca08a220971.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/133d7f99fa74466ea61e1da41052feba.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/0aa630eae23a8dc11e01d833de357272.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/4d764fdfd6fcda2a502887bcdd5a7916.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/a655a7afba85adc34a0dd17fc43b4332.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/c2478f360f1b2e007b858d44783dda03.jpg)
Now we have everything wearing 2 coats of self etching primer. One light-medium coat and then one medium coat on top of that.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/359549ebc4cff7324bd81775f31b17f1.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/f36661b77c1dbd39df58ce3cfdf29ef6.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/2aef2c13aec4ae66f8ceaa58d9312b62.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/e50ad080edeb41d35ee949bf71cf6a8e.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/dedbe5e110b3476f36d8159d5afc756a.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/3c36cd7486ae31b8cbbbc3859c04fde1.jpg)
Finally we have everything with its final coating. Starting first with a light mist coat, followed by light cover coat and lastly a medium wet coat. Coats were as instructed by the directions on the can.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/704d6890bb77620174a0c071a921957b.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/86009bd2134cdcb6f184b8a0c530d82f.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/ed0a881736880116a6f7583231588934.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/0ae92456faeed323f4d8b7422683644e.jpg)
In my opinion, the number of and consistency of the coats provided the best finish. The primer helped create a smoother surface finish, while still leaving a somewhat cast metal appearance, so it's clean looking but not highly expensive looking. They look better than OE parts but in fact just are OE parts. My exquisite tape masking job I'm sure did wonders also.
Of the 4 cans each I had of primer, paint and brake clean, I was left with 1 can of brake clean and 1 1/2 cans of primer.And as an added bonus, an extra picture!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/ea19630fbcd0d00f5bf48eb5cb5c40dd.jpg)
Took this just because it was a nice day here it looked good. Truck is actually dirty but it got washed later in the day while waiting for coats of black to dry enough for the next coats. Blue sky, green grass, neighbors are far enough way to not be annoying, dairy pasture across the street and Old Glory and the Fallen Police Officer's flag waving lightly in the breeze. It was a beautiful, sunny and warm day. Couldn't ask for better in farm country.
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 21, 2016, 10:04:09 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 21, 2016, 10:50:39 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 21, 2016, 12:08:33 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 21, 2016, 06:03:28 pm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160321/210212ba490c9166eb012b7df71a00dc.jpg)
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 22, 2016, 10:42:02 am
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160322/74f63b019ffdfe1f8f32c2d28f5094e6.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160323/13842b4add5235c29ccc446325fa01fa.jpg)
Now back to our regularly scheduled programing.
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 23, 2016, 01:19:55 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 23, 2016, 07:01:37 am
Post by: roundhouse on March 23, 2016, 08:15:21 am
And maybe a theft deterrent of some kind. Like a tiny hidden switch to ground out the coil or something
These trucks are really easy to steal
Nice work !
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 23, 2016, 09:52:31 am
Straight, 90 and 45's...nice. Ya just cant beat "new" parts!I had a few issues with the tie rods. They were all supposed to be 1/4-28 threads but for whatever reason the ones I bought wouldn't fit, straight, 90 & 45. Even tho they worked fine in everything else. Went to Orchard Supply and picked up 2 individual 90s and 2 individual 45s in 1/4-28 and they fit perfectly. Not sure how that works. Probably the 7th part of Murphys law lol.
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 23, 2016, 09:56:09 am
Make sure you save all the receipts and get some insurance that's going to cover it if it gets stolen or in a bad accidentI save all my receipts for this truck. I have an alarm and insurance. I'm not to worried about it. Plus I have friends in law enforcement.
And maybe a theft deterrent of some kind. Like a tiny hidden switch to ground out the coil or something
These trucks are really easy to steal
Nice work !
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 24, 2016, 02:51:41 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 24, 2016, 09:36:06 pm
Grease zerk caps and poly sway bar bushings are here. I think that just about covers all of the needed parts. I've gone over it a few times and it looks like I have everything needed. Now just have to find a free weekend and get it done.Thats gonna be the hard part...
BTW, what are you into this, thus far? $$
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 24, 2016, 10:00:29 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 24, 2016, 10:12:05 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 25, 2016, 12:24:10 am
Inspect all your parts tho, if everything is good you may not need to rebuild or replace. I am because I want to and it needs it. Being as original as your truck is, you may not want to replace alot of stuff with new aftermarket parts. Even tho Moog is the most popular and a good brand, it's still not OEM. All my stuff is original too but original with this truck went out the 4th story window, smacked every branch on the way down of the tree next to the building and made a small crater in lawn at the bottom a long time ago. So Delco replacement parts are great for me, tho I do have 1 Moog lower a arm (you can't tell the difference between the Moog and Delco tho). It's all up to personal preference and what you want. I'm trying to stay as factory as I can in the areas I want, but if I had the cash, this thing would have a Duramax diesel and Allison transmission in it too. That's a topic for another time tho.
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 26, 2016, 07:36:18 am
Hey, snoop around the back room or basement at work, maybe you'll find some NOS. LOL...
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 26, 2016, 11:33:54 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 26, 2016, 06:23:13 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 26, 2016, 11:06:21 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 27, 2016, 12:32:44 pm
http://youtu.be/fjBo2tLuKHc
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 27, 2016, 12:46:02 pm
http://youtu.be/LG6Hp6NwOsQ
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 27, 2016, 02:03:30 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 27, 2016, 08:35:23 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 27, 2016, 11:45:33 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on March 28, 2016, 10:38:15 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on March 29, 2016, 01:13:50 am
Must see pics when complete.I'm documenting the whole job with pics.
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 08, 2016, 01:24:47 am
Anyway, I'm set the calender for next weekend, I will hopefully be able to work on the truck then.
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 15, 2016, 10:56:01 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 16, 2016, 02:20:13 pm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160416/422b1c6cde838378a18b61b4c80250cc.jpg)
Driver side wheel well height. 34 1/4
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160416/4b994da445006b8eb75e08d91be8addf.jpg)
Passenger side wheel well height. 34 1/8
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160416/6818e627de8b669850bfd97b37a39667.jpg)
Post by: philo_beddoe on April 17, 2016, 03:43:27 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 18, 2016, 02:38:02 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on April 18, 2016, 06:19:24 am
I'd like to measure my tire height, but i dont have a perfectly flat surface. Which is what you must have.
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 19, 2016, 05:35:52 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on April 19, 2016, 10:30:56 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 20, 2016, 01:19:21 am
Tires/wheels need to go, they are in the way.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/763318f461c658b5481e4f6ce42eab86.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/eadaa2b43db4c439ce3838888dd449b5.jpg)
Next was the sway bar and steering linkage. The linkage was terrible looking.(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/b210c63851fe824d045df6ba7da851ce.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/094e748386e544946b0210a296efc5e6.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/478ed0fb7d775983fe771f327970daea.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/04915d574fb46223d2a791c8c8aa98c8.jpg)
Next, out with the springs and lower arms.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/7d89915318545cc8a2c83f7c04f3b706.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/08605250e696692d078754a562b5f222.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/5c904a01c4f4c3b59fcebb3336c4d560.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/ecae42e0fcc75a2bf63b4dd9321bd649.jpg)
Of course it's much easier to remove the arm with no spindles attached.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/e26a29ec0f8333359be91552e583377c.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/f1a702553afc3dc576c307cf60aa220d.jpg)
Upper arms hit the concrete after that.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/88c41050a88dfdb879f1ec7201b34e59.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/1cf2646b2c5068ff19fdfe719708eca1.jpg)
And finally those little brackets that the lower arm shafts bolt to with U bolts. Note: these little brackets are riveted on, so a cut off wheel in a die grinder and on air hammer removed those. Then it was stripped down to be pressure washed.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/ce472b1a382c07e7c23edfc6738b4c32.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/65987fc155b33a35729a92fe48e48062.jpg)
The area got pressure washed along with the spindles which were scraped clean off the gunk and grime for the most part and washed also. The spindles however did not receive and new paint as I just didn't feel like taking them apart. The sway bar, relay rod and idler arm to frame bracket also got pressure washed. These 3 items did receive 2 coats of self etching primer and 3 coats of VHT Chassis and Roll Bar paint, just the same fashion as all those new parts I painted.
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 20, 2016, 02:13:06 am
So to start, the upper shock mount frame braces. The did not have the right angle of bend to mount on, it really wasn't close enough to even call decent. So with some minor eye ball measurements and some carefully placed bends and tweaks in the vise, they fit alot better. Luckily tho, all of the supplied hardware was good quality and fit nicely. The brackets themselves actually had a nice powder coat finish to them, we will see but it appears to have held up well threw my minor adjustments and the installation.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/00d23c6703a7ff1d3fc06e96e22f66e3.jpg)
Followed by the upper and lower arms, springs and spindles. A word about the lower arms. Those little brackets riveted on the bottom of the K-member I spoke of earlier, the front two had large rivet heads on the bottom, they were locating pegs for the alignment dimples on the lower arm shafts. Some new bolts, washers, lock washers and nuts replaced the rivets and served as a great replacement for the bottom, making new locating pegs for the shaft dimples.
Honestly tho, if anyone does this, if these brackets aren't damaged, missing, rusted or have loose rivets, then don't even bother with new ones. Just leave them be. Probably wasn't a huge deal but I didn't know until after I got it apart that they were riveted on and I already had new ones so I swapped them out.
Anyway, arms, springs and spindles.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/9a028f94374b371b15a7058d1179aa24.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/3cbe31cd4ae1abf8a4d85a9c4a2a07f1.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/9a4e6b1b9c97ad89735eadbed02c97db.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/bfeacc8e4fd9a955028ce7ed5f5a41ad.jpg)
Now the steering linkage with freshly painted relay rod.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/3ae52e00f79fd79f60c3be0e7fafdb0a.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/4fa1e640f5d127cac39e880a0495fbe3.jpg)
Next, steering stabilizer shock kit. This kit was a universal, fits 8 different types of vehicles kind of kits. I had a number of left over parts, including a small bracket I had painted but was actually for a different vehicle application. The instructions weren't that great either so I figured it out on my own.
Frame mount from top.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/c2ac01b5bb914d60a81d426cc9c28cc5.jpg)
Relay rod mount from top.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/1141b50f86fc3d3b95ad03d7efa874f3.jpg)
Frame mount from bottom.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/16506f3204916fbb113f51d1ecf9a43d.jpg)
Relay rod mount from bottom.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/48f61033bf3ead5071003b450aad7099.jpg)
I found I was out of grease, so upon visiting the store for grease, I came home with a new grease gun.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/7f3ca5717da293041b35310622bbe21f.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/8d8d9283b4642a9f5278c6678432135c.jpg)
Now everything is finished up, I also put on new bolts, washers, lock washers and nuts for the sway bar mounts as well. Grease fittings greased, caps on, all is done.(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/c0bf89d84543eb84814b7e1df37958a6.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/5487d5a5e2130059e089a6928c4036d9.jpg)
Soon as I dropped it on the ground it was obviously higher.
Left. 36 3/4 inches.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/50b43efd2eb8addef2c16f9a108094db.jpg)
Right. 37 inches.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/771250bc940e2c04c18ac5bddbd315d5.jpg)
A nice road test in a 5 mile square helped settle things in, mainly seating the springs. We measured after the first drive and it dropped and inch on the right and 3/4 on the left. So both sides are now at 36 inches. I'll have to measure again in a few days or a week and see how it is. I racked it at work when we were slow in the last hour of the day, checked everything over, all it good so far.
I'm having it aligned Thursday, it's pretty close but the alignment guy at work will be able to set her dead straight.
That just about covers it for the front portion of this article. I'm liking the new height alot, but I know it will settle more, it squats in the rear now. I have to gather the supplies for the rear to be done next, get a nice rake again and actually be able to support heavy loads without a sagging rear end! I'll try and snap a pic tomorrow of it from the side so you can see the lean towards the rear.
Stay tuned.
Post by: cvbear on April 20, 2016, 08:02:59 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 21, 2016, 11:34:37 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on April 21, 2016, 10:02:47 pm
Post by: Irish_Alley on April 21, 2016, 11:09:38 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 22, 2016, 12:09:26 am
wonder how close they are in a new truck?They are the same. The ride height, weight control and suspension/steering capabilities are more refined. They can do more with less.
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 22, 2016, 12:11:08 am
As long as both sides are even in height, all that matters.That's the OCD talking. Or do you have CDO, it's the same as OCD but the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be.
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 22, 2016, 12:23:38 am
He had a handful of old shims when he was done, probably at least 8-10 of various thicknesses. He also said he set the caster a little heavy so that when I get the rear back up to a good height everything will be good. He did a great job, truck runs straight down the road, I'm happy with it.
He also said he liked what I did and that I did a good job, pretty good for my first time rebuilding and entire front end. It's always good to hear you did good work from a professional.
Now I get to figure out where I want the rear to be. I'm hoping for a nice rake, just enough to look good, not excessive but still be level with heavy weight. Possibly just opposite of the rake it has now. It's got a squatting rear, it needs to go up lol.
Post by: philo_beddoe on April 22, 2016, 09:58:58 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 22, 2016, 11:12:57 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on April 22, 2016, 09:49:59 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 23, 2016, 01:46:22 am
2: Worn steering. This stuff is also old, looks original. Eventually it will become unsafe, I'd like to fix it before that ever happens. Tho I've had no issues yet, I prefer to avoid any that might occur.
3: Pure want. I have wanted to show some love to the under carriage of the truck for a long time. I have done a lot to the exterior, interior and drive train in the years I've owned it. However, other than new tires and wheels, I haven't touched the underside, it was time.
Post by: philo_beddoe on April 23, 2016, 08:22:31 am
Weird, ever notice we do stuff to these trucks nearly every day to improve, and still, there is always something pending. What did they all do back in the 60's and 70's, just drive em into the ground??!
Post by: bd on April 23, 2016, 11:44:33 am
Weird, ever notice we do stuff to these trucks nearly every day to improve, and still, there is always something pending. What did they all do back in the 60's and 70's, just drive em into the ground??!
...Automotive enthusiasts tinker....
In the 50's, 60's & 70's, trucks were less a road toy and existed primarily to work. The 80's ushered broad changes in perceptions of economic stature and viewpoints on havingness, driven largely by banks and the introduction of easy credit. The "commodities of living" have grown more compulsive ever since. Working on our vehicles is an escape from humdrum, and something on which we can focus to create a desired effect.
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 23, 2016, 12:18:12 pm
Also, I have 9 leafs per pack on my truck, no overload, that's all 1 solid pack.
Post by: philo_beddoe on April 24, 2016, 06:17:17 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 24, 2016, 06:23:35 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on April 24, 2016, 07:05:29 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 24, 2016, 11:07:55 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on April 25, 2016, 07:11:51 am
Back to steering and suspension...
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 25, 2016, 10:17:54 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on April 27, 2016, 12:57:53 pm
This will correct the lean, give it a small rake, help better support heavier loads and raise the rear about 2 inches. If it's too high or too stiff I can remove a leave if I want.
The truck rode level before and just sagged with a decent load, the new front springs make it look like the rears are sagging, the new leafs will boost it back to the proper height and look. Then I'll clean and paint before I reinstall.
Labor is cheap if I take just the springs, if I take the whole truck it's an extra 120 for labor to remove and reinstall. Same day turn around if I take them early enough in the morning, other wise next day turn around.
Post by: philo_beddoe on May 02, 2016, 08:47:37 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 02, 2016, 12:42:50 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on May 02, 2016, 02:45:57 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 02, 2016, 10:38:01 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on May 03, 2016, 05:08:45 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 03, 2016, 10:31:07 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on May 04, 2016, 08:19:41 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 04, 2016, 02:47:22 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on May 04, 2016, 05:08:19 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 04, 2016, 07:37:27 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on May 04, 2016, 08:42:08 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 04, 2016, 09:24:00 pm
Score on what, a written test?The oral interview.
Post by: philo_beddoe on May 04, 2016, 09:43:15 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 04, 2016, 10:25:07 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 04, 2016, 10:37:29 pm
Well I just changed my mind. I found this place that makes new OEM springs. My buddy used them for new factory springs and he said the new ones looked exactly the same as the old ones. I just measured my springs and compared to their measurements and they were the same. My buddy was very happy with their quality and they had the correct number of leafs and higher weight rating for my camper special option.
The best part of all, it's cheaper than the shop I went to in town, $160 bucks a set! 320 plus shipping is pretty good. They quoted me between 280 and 300 just for 2 leafs at the spring shop. I was looking
At between 450 and 500 for the other parts and labor. I can get all the parts for the rear for maybe 100 on my own and do all the labor my self.
That means all the springs will be new. Adding two new leafs to an old pack just seemed like an expensive band aid fix. Why do that when I can get all new for the less. 2 new leafs are only going to wear out sooner because the rest of the pack is still old and not supporting weight like they should. So yea, my minds made up. Hahaha.
Here is the company and link to my springs.
http://www.generalspringkc.com/product_p/22-547hd.htm
On a side note. I was just out with my gf and her brother. We were craving a snack so we went to Sonic and got some oreo blasts and then her brother wanted a banana split so we went to Dairy Queen. Well while in the drive thru at DQ, the drive thru worker was about to hand over his banana split when he asked if my gf brother wanted 2 spoons. It caught her brother and I off guard at first so he tried to say no he got an ice cream but he just said no he's got one already, as in has a spoon already and and then as we pulled away I realized what he said and then her brother said I'm not with him but we already passed the window so it made no difference. Apparently he never saw my gf in the back seat and 2 guys in ball caps in a big 3500 duramax gmc look like they are "together". We laughed all they way home.
Post by: Irish_Alley on May 05, 2016, 07:08:51 am
I actually just got a response email earlier this afternoon. I did not score high enough to continue the recruitment process. I should hear back in the next 48 hours what the reason was I was failed. I'm going to look next at the neighboring county, long time family friend is a Sergeant there, soon to be Leutenant.
i know around here they will fail you the first couple times. and it you keep coming back then it shows your determination and heart to have that job. dont give up, you might have to wait a time period to reapply but do it. i know even with my job they initially failed me, something about my county grammar (http://www.naioa.com/v2/modules/Forums/images/smiles/lol_hitting.gif) they called me back in to retake the written test. i did another test and she just briefly looked over the essay i wrote and said "yup youre good". they gave me a interview a week or two later and told me right there i got the job, which is something they dont normally do. so i must have really impressed them 8)
Post by: philo_beddoe on May 05, 2016, 07:26:20 am
2. Glad we're back on the rebuild.
3. Two spoons, lol!!!
4. If i ate at sonic, then dairy queen, someone would have to call 911. Lol
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 05, 2016, 09:30:37 am
Yea, just got to wait on pay day to get the springs.
I didn't eat both, I got Sonic, then he got DQ, kid was a crazy a banana split pretty bad. Haha
Post by: philo_beddoe on May 05, 2016, 10:55:04 am
My next thing is a full driveshaft service, then may have Vile Z. do the rear end, get rid of a little sloppiness. Always somethin'!!
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 05, 2016, 02:21:50 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on May 05, 2016, 04:16:35 pm
Edit: although i'd love an aluminum. But i need to be careful what i post about changes. Vile, since i live near him and he knows me and my truck better than i do, always catches me and asks "why, what are you doing" or "what do you want to do that for"? Which i dont mind, because he always ends up saving me money and time. And anxiety!! Lol!
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 05, 2016, 11:12:09 pm
I have no logical justification, it's pure kid in a candy store "I want! I want! I want!".
Post by: philo_beddoe on May 06, 2016, 07:32:24 am
I wish i could stick by that smart and wise rule..."if it aint broke...."
Post by: Irish_Alley on May 06, 2016, 07:49:57 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 06, 2016, 03:29:41 pm
will it make you go faster? is it more reliable?Yes and yes. Lol
Post by: Irish_Alley on May 06, 2016, 09:37:42 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 06, 2016, 10:42:26 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on May 07, 2016, 09:34:32 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on May 31, 2016, 03:43:28 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on June 01, 2016, 12:50:26 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 01, 2016, 05:46:25 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on June 02, 2016, 01:13:27 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 15, 2016, 10:52:10 pm
My truck has 9 leafs per spring, these new springs are also 9 leaf, they have an increased capacity over stock. Actually, 750 lbs each over stock, the new ones are rated for 3500 lbs each.
Post by: philo_beddoe on June 20, 2016, 07:04:12 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 21, 2016, 01:55:25 am
So is it all complete?The rear suspension? If that's what you mean then no.
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 21, 2016, 07:28:23 am
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160621/2b6737740afa0d13d0596f71ec8e2ee8.jpg)
And yesterday I received the new springs from General Spring. That's the really good part I was excited for. These are a very stout, very well made product.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160621/8ef57b51ce1470b766eb824c668424b7.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160621/4e371f8097938b73ae5da0e6c8cae496.jpg)
[(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160621/01274eb279494ea15eddc7c03071ebf6.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160621/05c20f2ebeca839d33f35c6d69f7af89.jpg)
Hopefully soon I will get to order all the hardware and things. Now I need to clean the springs, remove the bushings, repaint and install the Energy stuff.
Post by: philo_beddoe on June 21, 2016, 06:45:38 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 21, 2016, 06:50:00 pm
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on June 21, 2016, 07:04:21 pm
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 21, 2016, 09:37:18 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on June 23, 2016, 12:29:01 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 23, 2016, 10:26:00 pm
Post by: Dan75k20 on June 23, 2016, 10:42:48 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 24, 2016, 01:27:33 am
springs look quality!They are! Better be for almost 500 bucks! They are very nicely built actually.
Post by: Dan75k20 on June 24, 2016, 06:56:42 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 25, 2016, 06:25:51 pm
I was wondering what they cost ya better to spend money on quality parts though.I have no issue at spending a little more for quality parts.
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 26, 2016, 11:21:40 pm
I started with the rubber bushings, used a hole saw for wood to separate the rubber from the outer sleeve. That work perfectly. Going from either side, the hole saw got 1/3 of the bushing cut down per side, then I used a drill bit to cut the middle area the hole saw wouldn't reach.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/ac4871b7d01900ba61196d6860ec8062.jpg)
So once the inner sleeve was removed, I was left with the outer sleeve.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/fb80ea8e3d88ab464fb2d5a1e98d038f.jpg)
To get the outer sleeve out, I used a chisel punch to cave the edges in and create a ledge for a socket to sit.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/9a59dc00f34bc0bd42b0ec959bf879b2.jpg)
Then I just used 2 impact sockets of the same size as the spring eyes to drive them out with brute force, ignorance and a big hammer.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/c57632fc04e843468be47cdb73fc83ac.jpg)
And that process worked quite well. Once the rubber was removed, it only took about 15 min to cave in the edges and drive each sleeve out. Cutting up the bushings took the most amount of time.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/abca4fec0d72122c92645e4636956e88.jpg)
This is what is left of 4 brand new rubber bushings. I also accidentally broke two drill bits. No big deal haha.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/8e45ccd942cdf9f5ee333b4784cf9843.jpg)
Ready for paint. Going to use the self etching primer and roll bar & chassis paint same as I did for the front suspension.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/f2d3c72006adcd70f8055b8718222123.jpg)
I hope to being ordering the rest of the needed parts later this week, maybe, my debit card number got stolen so I had to have my card shut off and file a claim with the bank for the fraudulent charges so I'm dealing with that whole issue at the moment as well. I may have to wait till the new card arrives, it's terrible timing.
That's all for now folks.
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 27, 2016, 01:42:43 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 29, 2016, 02:22:33 am
First off, I believe I mentioned that I will be adding rear shock mount braces, like I did for the front. These are them.
http://offroaddesign.com/catalog/RearShockBrace.htm
Well while browsing ORD's fine site, I found another upgrade I'm seriously considering doing. This one is purely for fun, they are available, I like them and well, because I can. Haha
http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/hdREARshackles.htm
Pretty cool huh?? I think so.
I also found a rear differential cover I thought was pretty sweet, but that is for another time, possibly when I address the rear disc conversion?? (Hint hint, you may see more about that when it gets to the brake overhaul segment of the show.)
Anyway, I plan to call ORD tomorrow and interrogate them about those HD shackles, see if I can get a little more info on them. Good night boys & girls!
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 29, 2016, 11:17:00 pm
Rear shock brace.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160630/26183b52e1a04e616cd297c347db1235.jpg)
Close up.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160630/d9a82ad31b2a69368c19f20059ecef1e.jpg)
Rear HD Super Shackles.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160630/030bc3c7067414e09b214fb3faf2b589.jpg)
Close up.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160630/3cdfc6c9bef6316f5d247f7fbd42c29e.jpg)
I talked to ORD, they sell just the shackles as I don't need the bolts or bushings. I'm getting all new hardware and I already have the new bushings. Shackles, braces, studs and shipping = $165.
Post by: RossCravens on June 30, 2016, 03:20:59 pm
I am excited to see the disk brake conversion. I have all of the same plans for my truck one day, and I am the most unclear about the conversion so I will learn vicariously through you!!!
Keep up the good work!
Post by: LTZ C20 on June 30, 2016, 10:35:31 pm
I'm currently more excited to get the new springs in and get the proper ride stance. Thanks again.
Post by: LTZ C20 on July 10, 2016, 05:25:41 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on July 14, 2016, 10:57:08 am
So first off we have the rear shock mount frame braces. These things are well made from quality steel. The cuts are sharp and precise, the bends are even and the holes are clean.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/0b45a5eb9352ac5612eac166ba2fe370.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/1145b68b17f43be55af197827df8a850.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/e5788f165439001348bd0594d1e65216.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/16ae6828c88921c65e733a5d2af245ab.jpg)
You can see here that when stacked, they are perfect matches and you can clearly see the quality of steel and the cuts.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/8ebd994766735357634149d6224c4a0d.jpg)
This is the included hardware for the braces. The bolts are are Grade 8, they even have the words "Lawson Tuff Torq" cast in the heads. The washers are all thick and have their size clearly stamped on each, they are 7/16. The nuts are quality pinch nuts as well.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/95eb3ef31871b8c10df4fae854522fa2.jpg)
Then we have the shock mounts. Thee are quality also. The washers are thick here too, 3 large hole washers and 1 small hole. Both large and small nuts are pinch style too.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/4bae72812a67db4de8f3d68f68774ae7.jpg)
Now the shackles. These things are beasts! They weren't kidding when they called them heavy duty! The welds are all even and have been cleaned up and smoothed. The cut edges are straight and clean here as well, like the braces.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/97ce7a12725776936fd15a028193fc26.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/8462d970aa59aabd0059634aa6b3d3ce.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/f1a57d68bafce6e73b3db68305ef0ce5.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/e6477c635c58e434d51e062246a06466.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/a840ad162803defdcc8d0d048075ead4.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/2534c43bb0976bf937eaa41bfdc907ad.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/8ec3f5b8f6935040af2e8d57aea5ba39.jpg)
These shackles are heavy, everything lines up perfectly, they too are mirrors of each other. Looking here, you can see that my new Energy bushings fit perfectly.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/b91fc65477bbf60c17fcb128f9715052.jpg)
All the parts came neatly packaged, a receipt for my credit card, an invoice and warranty form were included. Along with these 2 nice little stickers.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/dd0796ca164e169aa4f48ff8d43f65ef.jpg)
I highly recommend this company, very well done job on manufacturing these pieces and the customer service was very good.
Post by: LTZ C20 on July 18, 2016, 01:44:42 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on July 20, 2016, 09:32:28 pm
Primer, forgot to take a few pics of the springs.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160721/c7705b0ba52f50155e4ec2f5e7efd06b.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160721/28b61cbc14c63afa554948c4326d0011.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160721/60920c2d7c1476f8b0b026170824a17b.jpg)
Paint.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160721/b0a28fae793e3f07b6a9ea4a453f5bf0.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160721/d21134af3a3d140a66ee1c4b8b9c770c.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160721/080fd1ca72efdba44c3912393f044d6c.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160721/4f86d66fc0be8be39a0883596b10dd78.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160721/33bf4a0d2706fd0b026600eeb8498e05.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160721/edebcd648eef0539ac23df801d4b514c.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160721/ba8dd0fd15398a613e30004674d05204.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160721/2cb77ec6b0f5ab7958b236ccb9337baf.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160721/acef08c454f3eb86785e24feece9ffe0.jpg)
Post by: LTZ C20 on July 26, 2016, 02:27:57 am
I got the rear suspension all rebuilt Sunday. It was a toasty day here in central CA, about 104°. Under the shade with cold drinks and a few fans and we got it done. It came out really good. So let's start.
Disassembly was pretty easy, no problems at all, the U bolt nuts were a good exercise in swinging a 1/2 ratcheting breaker bar though. (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/5844450c9e2049009ea81f86d5269b7c.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/6934f717e21a7a23e9e7e10abe487667.jpg)
Here it is all stripped and ready for assembly. Shocks off, shock mounts off, shackles out, I even cut off the remains of the factory exhaust hanger bracket right by the left rear upper shock mount. It was in the way and served no other purpose than an eye sore.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/a4dc6ac5f16e05e0f44031c62deff6a5.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/f25427b83668a70d70f01347119305c6.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/b0b92c3a1964108eb97fda822fb16130.jpg)
Pressure washed the under side when it was all stripped along with the shocks and then wiped the shocks down with some acetone just to clean them up some, not to bad looking now.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/895600ae13b732086d43eda3b5724b28.jpg)
Here you can clearly see a sizeable difference between the two. Not only in the sagging of the old springs but also the thickness of each springs individual leafs. The old leafs were 5/16 inch thick each, these new leafs are 3/8 inch thick, the extra thickness contributes to the higher weight rating of the HD springs. They are 1/16 in thicker.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/87178fffcd8eb727a2a0738f8a9be486.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/d2775eda64450e588a887fa4739c2d38.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/70a863a8851bbc3fecc6ffd35b88f415.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/d5d5e07940cb759c4dcdf76a38c5386b.jpg)
Now we have the first spring installed.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/51e750bc35d63747051b656058a9257e.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/cad8a65bef48df7c8c8d62f91415f927.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/3496ac151d21a99c011f4025f42001b0.jpg)
I'm a little disappointed I must say, I didn't know the new springs would be thicker. So the nuts even when fully torqued are only being used by their bottom halves. The bolts are 8.5 inches long and they need to be 9.5 inches long which would perfectly correct that issue.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/ab9d58acdc8eb9d3a5211b22002508ab.jpg)
Now it was time to install the shock mounts and braces. This was easy, I just installed the mounts. Then hung a shock on a mount, held it in its operating position, put the braces on the top, angled it accordingly allowing for shock operation and mademail some marks on the frame. Then the marks were drilled and then the braces were loosely installed.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/d6faec1717f23979efec482ea9f0b624.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/d8a44f7bcf68fc1cfe80dda38dd02530.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/ed1c09456c7648bf068da82679d68154.jpg)
Once the lower shock mounts were installed fully. I then fully installed the braces.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/b1d668a01b8eaf61be03496cf1a99da3.jpg)
New bump stops.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/f03d28629d7671ebb2a0ba7111e7ae3b.jpg)
Don't these look nice?!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/4e3fad80e76df4a86580c17125aa719c.jpg)
Then we slapped the tires back on. Dropped it down of the jack stands, shook it up and down a bit, this allows the springs and everything to move up and down and settle in so to speak, finding their "happy spot". Then we fully tightened all 6 spring and shackle bolts. And then took some measurements.
Driver side. 36 5/8, just over 3 feet off the ground.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/1cd00e0d0f68efbd945362cccb75a472.jpg)
Passenger side. 36 1/2, both sides being within an 1/8 inch of each other is great!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/cfffd747f535ec2f4a1a6a17fd5bbcc5.jpg)
Top of the rear bumper is now at 28 3/8 inches off the ground. It doesn't look like the tow hitch is super low any more. That means that with these new springs, the rear of the truck gained just over 2.5 inches of height over the old springs. What a huge difference it made it appearance and towing ability.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/cf3da0bdc42e3e75b4b54ab6c69530ea.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/62d03a3d9dee56f0d9e02d1e8ebaaeee.jpg)
This is a great pic. You can actually see the pumpkin! Yay!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160726/65ea51d47c45c189feb30c107424ded8.jpg)
Post by: LTZ C20 on July 26, 2016, 02:48:20 am
Now, you might wonder, why do I need bolts that are 2.5 inches longer than I need? Well here is the deal.
The truck at its new height, looks sooo good. Like really, really good. I love it so much, I actually want to make it a bit taller, so I'm thinking about just adding a 2 inch lift. Just to get that little extra height I desire and give the image of a bigger truck but not a jacked up truck. Remember, it's two wheel drive here, I don't want it to look silly. I hate the jacked up 2wd look.
So I'm looking at getting a set of 2inch steel lift blocks and the appropriate shocks for the rear, because I know with a 2 inch, I won't have to change the brake lines, I have plenty of flexibility with those.
My question here is tho, for those of you that might now, how do I lift the front so that it looks proportional?
I don't want to go past 2 inches, but I think with 2 inches I may have to change front brake lines, maybe some steering parts also? I thought with a 1 inch lift in the front, I won't have to change any of that, is this correct?
Plus I think with a 1 inch in the front and a 2 inch in the back, I will have just a little more noticeable forward rake. It looks great now but I want it to be a tad more noticeable that the back is higher than the front.
So how do I safely and easily raise the front? Coil spring spacers? I'm not to fond of that idea as I don't really trust spacers, they just seem unsafe??
Also, with a little extra lift, it will look better once I add the side steps. At this point, that's just looking like it would be either polished stainless steel or chrome nerf bars. Again, I love the new look so much I want just a tiny bit more.
Opinions, knowledge, recommendations and comments welcome as always!
Thanks for watching!
Post by: LTZ C20 on July 30, 2016, 12:56:16 am
I did take some pics. I apologize in advance, it was at night. Detail wasn't needed, just over all appearance.
This is as it sits.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160730/a6b3a0b201631cea96ffc0ab13904643.jpg)
Possibility with a 1 inch block.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160730/af3ac7d7b2c99f5d9496c55cc58082bc.jpg)
Possibility with a 2 inch block.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160730/df4aa04d259329f816122ae102107a25.jpg)
The last one makes it look like the back half of the frame is bent up towards the sky lol.
So my final decision is a 1 inch block. With a 1 inch, I have more than ample room with my brake lines and won't need shocks. (Remember, after I drive it awhile I'm going to decide what I want to do about new shocks, only part of the build I haven't replaced.)
As for the front, I'm not touching a thing. I don't trust coil spring spacers even a tiny little bit no matter how good or safe they are. I haven't been able to find anything in the way of lift spindles and I don't want to change any more of my brand new steering parts for lifted versions.
Overall, just the 1in will be just fine.
I've been looking at blocks, a lot of blocks. I found a set of 1.5in from Fabtech, made from fiberglass reinforced nylon, don't trust that one bit. I found a few sets from other companies that are aluminum, also don't trust it. I did find a set of steel blocks from ProComp, 50 bucks plus shipping. Kinda expensive. So I decided I'm going to make my own.
I have 3 years experience in engineering making parts using 3D modeling, like AutoCad and stress testing designs.
My girlfriend's brother, tho not a professional, is an excellent welder. He built a cage for his company that they attach to forklifts at his work where they hoist people up 4 stories to service the lights and ceilings in the warehouse.
So between the two of us, we shouldn't have a single issue fabricating some nice blocks from steel. And we already have extra steel laying around.
I also had a set of longer U bolts made today for the lift. Pick them up tomorrow.
For now folks, that's all I got.
I think...
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 02, 2016, 10:58:32 pm
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160803/746305226c165323d6ee30128a171498.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160803/27a1cae7ea345fbc193c57b9547faa98.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160803/48ed49fc2e06867e67e0914a86da6467.jpg)
With the top section removed to see the internal braces.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160803/af43760c35a9e98f29e7a529e3e6ffc4.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160803/9ab37558eaf429369aae530716ca9d47.jpg)
Cost for the blocks:
pins- from old springs, no charge.
Steel- under 20 bucks.
Paint & primer- already had from rebuild.
welding- free.
No charge for shipping.
Total: about $20.
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 04, 2016, 11:50:59 pm
Here they are built.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/fa1451e5579e3c2b3717162181bb07e9.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/42cdabd8f2000fb6ff3c386d1a7e4833.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/78e11e53435a34f0de2b671e33dd4ed7.jpg)
Here they are after flap disc and wire wheel finish work.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/076b6e6c9876924445c0b054892cde7c.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/4c5683953e7b5ea0ffb6cde31cab82be.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/12a7385f3b0657408fa73f6c56d09993.jpg)
Primer.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/dab25d4165f2624a0b0adbc3f9a54b35.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/5b1725003766ab3721adc06a149e6802.jpg)
Paint.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/b03864905e66a1520497710b160f77f4.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/ffaa2d006ba10dcfc88a3e0217261782.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/c8d94759c0bdacb3d915301c9d8c68d2.jpg)
Will post pics of install.
Post by: philo_beddoe on August 08, 2016, 01:27:00 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 08, 2016, 02:00:33 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on August 08, 2016, 10:43:53 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 08, 2016, 10:51:21 pm
Ok, thought so. Too lazy to slide finger down a few inches.Lol. Stand by, in the next hour I will update about the lift install.
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 08, 2016, 11:53:41 pm
Yesterday I installed the blocks. Didn't take too long, about 2 hours. I was working pretty slow tho, not much motivation lately haha. The blocks fit perfectly.
I thought I was going to have an issue with the longer U bolts. They looked too wide when compared to the others. Looks can be deceiving tho, they fit fine.
On with the pictures!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/74950e472ba1493203fe8871945e99fc.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/3d2f2e6f1af2bfb114f904343021dfaa.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/e24cf1b30d2d3b1e3ce4eb3384b7270a.jpg)
Before the blocks but with the new springs.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/4b2833b5a7a356d5ba92e2c65efd3813.jpg)
Remember, with just the springs, the middle of the wheel well openings were at just over 36 inches off the ground & the top of the bumper was at 28 inches.
Now with the blocks. What makes it look different is looking at the space between the tires and wheels wells. Otherwise the difference can be kinda hard to see.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/9f510b12440c09e0a60c78b5cd149f5b.jpg)
Now, the middle of the wheel well openings are at 37.5 inches and the rear bumper is at 29.25 inches.
These two pics are better.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/c702250f5f75b2ecb585b5308b0b80c0.jpg)
This one really shows the new rake.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/bbd824456aebcf2444cb2ebb67d40a3a.jpg)
I love the way it looks. The lift gave me that little extra I was looking for. I wanted it to look like a big 2500 but not like a 2wd that wants to be a 4wd.
The project never really stops. Side plans include removing the cab lights hopefully soon and adding some simple chrome or stainless steel nerf bars/side steps, only cab length, I don't want them to stretch under the bed. Also, this is only when the the time comes but next time it's time for new tires I may go from a 265/75R16 tire to a 285/85R16 tire. I'll worry about that when the time comes tho.
The actual next step on this thread is brakes! So stay tuned, it may be a bit before I get to it but, eventually that will commence.
Cliff hanger!
(p.s. disc brake conversion to come)
Post by: Irish_Alley on August 09, 2016, 06:44:04 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on August 09, 2016, 08:40:26 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 09, 2016, 08:57:51 am
much rather see a truck look like this then the new "style" were they life the front by 6" then the rear only gets 2" or soBrand new HD GM trucks have about 6-8 inches between the tires and wheel wells in the front and about 8-12 inches between the tires and wheel wells in the rear. This all of course depends on the model, 2500 or 3500, 2 or 4 wheel drive, gas or diesel engine. But even in the new trucks, the rake sometimes looks even more extreme than mine. I've stood next too a brand new 2wd 2500 HD gas truck, the top of the bed was at my chest and it looked like it was as high and a stock 4wd. These new trucks have such high payload ratings that the suspension makes them sit tall. Which is ok, a big truck is always better looking than a little truck.
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 09, 2016, 09:10:47 am
Looks nice and even. I have a factory config, and my nose has a little drop, as they normally do right? I was gonna swap coil springs to the HD AC Delco. Will that even me out?With new HD springs you may get to much forward lift, causing it to be nose high with a slope to the rear. That's actually what mine looked like for awhile until the back got rebuilt, it was minor but noticeable. New standard springs will probably bring the nose up even with the rear.
I went HD on everything because I wanted the truck to sit noticeably higher. That's why I lput blocks on also, just to bring the back up a bit more. Some people like the truck to sit level, some like a high front, some like a high rear. I always like a high rear so your heavy loads the truck is level. Otherwise it looks like your trying to move something heavier than what the truck can handle when the back sags with a load.
I would leave it a bit nose down. Unless you get new springs all around, then it will still be nose down but the whole truck will sit taller.
Post by: Irish_Alley on August 09, 2016, 01:34:13 pm
much rather see a truck look like this then the new "style" were they life the front by 6" then the rear only gets 2" or soBrand new HD GM trucks have about 6-8 inches between the tires and wheel wells in the front and about 8-12 inches between the tires and wheel wells in the rear. This all of course depends on the model, 2500 or 3500, 2 or 4 wheel drive, gas or diesel engine. But even in the new trucks, the rake sometimes looks even more extreme than mine. I've stood next too a brand new 2wd 2500 HD gas truck, the top of the bed was at my chest and it looked like it was as high and a stock 4wd. These new trucks have such high payload ratings that the suspension makes them sit tall. Which is ok, a big truck is always better looking than a little truck.
lol i meant the new "style" kids are doing ow days. they call it a cali lean???
(http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt348/kpcomb/CIMG3016.jpg)
(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i459/Phillip_West/20130619_195909.jpg)
(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i459/Phillip_West/20130717_165505.jpg)
theres a few around here on the east coast that have done it. one of my friends who has a crew cab also did it. he swears it was by mistake, cause he has a 2wd frame and hangers that he made 4wd
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13754578_636080983218187_6505948279140151076_n.png?oh=3c78b7696c3bdc90e93aae291ee424b3&oe=58163F89)
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 09, 2016, 02:15:33 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on August 09, 2016, 10:22:56 pm
Post by: Irish_Alley on August 10, 2016, 01:18:36 am
Post by: philo_beddoe on August 10, 2016, 07:39:26 am
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 10, 2016, 09:29:03 am
Here is that front end dip i have. Is this normal?(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160810/166648e30a38a05ce47c2a3bf3de1788.jpg)Perfectly normal and correct! That is how a truck is supposed to sit. That's how it looked off the assembly line, no reason to change.
Post by: philo_beddoe on August 10, 2016, 09:25:15 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 10, 2016, 11:48:46 pm
Awesome! Finally, something is right. Thanks..Welcome.
Post by: Stewart G Griffin on August 16, 2016, 09:17:05 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 16, 2016, 11:35:22 pm
Post by: 78 Chevyrado on August 23, 2016, 10:57:30 pm
Excellent work! :)
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 23, 2016, 11:14:15 pm
Lovin your build man! Excellent work! I remember doing mine, I hated doing the control arm bushings. took some doing to get them to sync/mesh up right and get em all setup.Thanks! I do try! I'm glad I just went with new complete parts. Trying to rebuilt my old stuff would have been a real trick with the time I allowed for each project and finding all of the required parts. Plus everything would have needed to be cleaned and painted. I was able to keep the painting to a minimum (even tho everything got painted). I'm going to keep driving it for awhile before I decide on shocks. I may get new of my existing or something completely different. I've looked at Monroe (currently installed) and Rancho and Bilstein.
Excellent work! :)
I'm excited to start the brake rebuild and conversion however it's going to have to wait a bit so I can decide on shocks and I lost 3rd and 4th gear on my trans, so I ripped it out and it's at work disassembled, waiting for parts.
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 24, 2016, 12:43:20 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on August 24, 2016, 01:59:30 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 24, 2016, 02:17:14 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on August 24, 2016, 04:41:40 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 24, 2016, 10:26:33 pm
Post by: 78 Chevyrado on August 24, 2016, 11:02:31 pm
I can't remember if they're called gasmatic or not.. they are yellow monroes, Yellow, As HD as I could get, still working for me.
Post by: 78 Chevyrado on August 24, 2016, 11:04:26 pm
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=9090.0 (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=9090.0)
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 25, 2016, 12:04:56 am
IIRC I got the Monroe Gasmatic HD's on mine. Built the truck in 2008... in 2016 and 75,000 miles later they still work great.I believe I know the ones you are referring to, the bright yellow Monroe's are the Gas-Magnum Truck shocks. Those are what I have on the truck currently, they are about 5 years old and externally look fine but are probably due for replacement.
I can't remember if they're called gasmatic or not.. they are yellow monroes, Yellow, As HD as I could get, still working for me.
http://www.monroe.com/en-US/products/shocks-struts/gas-magnum/truck-shock-absorbers/
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160825/9a67058d20838d2a102b1c8d57ea8ff9.jpg)
I'm probably going to put a new set of these back on the front. For the rear, I'm looking at these, because why the heck not? If i don't like them I only wasted 80 bucks haha and I'll just get another set of the magnums for the rear.
http://www.monroe.com/en-US/products/shocks-struts/max-air/shock-absorbers/
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160825/86d40719fbeb2cee9aa0660b737d8876.jpg)
These come with all the hardware and air fill parts.
After all this i should just rip the C20 emblems off and put some C30 emblems in their place with HD added to the end in Sharpie LOL.
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 25, 2016, 12:12:00 am
hahahahahaPost by: philo_beddoe on August 25, 2016, 02:38:16 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 25, 2016, 06:48:03 pm
Post by: philo_beddoe on August 25, 2016, 07:16:48 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on August 25, 2016, 11:39:40 pm
Post by: 79 Royal Sierra on September 15, 2016, 12:58:27 pm
Post by: LTZ C20 on September 15, 2016, 11:24:30 pm