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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: Bobby Nelson on October 19, 2005, 11:49:00 am

Title: Labor Time Estimate?
Post by: Bobby Nelson on October 19, 2005, 11:49:00 am: Does anyone have any idea what the Labor Time might be to take out a tired 350 and install a crate 383. I am talking about a shop doing it, not a do it yourself job. I'm trying to get an idea what it might cost me to have this done??

1978 1/2 ton L/B SM465 Muncie

Thanks for your time
Title: Re: Labor Time Estimate?
Post by: roundedline on October 19, 2005, 11:04:00 am: The last one I took to a dealership (motor was a crate I purchased with a warranty so I wanted them to pull it) they covered it under warranty and the cost was $1200, but it was covered under warranty, so the cost was just listed. The engine cost me $1150 total, so the labor was more than the engine. The shop charged $75 and hour for labor, so that would be 16 hours. This was about 10 years ago, so...
Chris Lucas
www.73-87chevytrucks.com
www.captkaoscustoms.com
Project Su
Jimmy 2WD Project
Title: time estimate
Post by: Lt.Del on October 19, 2005, 02:47:00 pm: You're talking my language now. I took an old 350 out of my 79 chevy and threw in a 383 crate. I did it myself throughout the course of six evenings after work. I guess i worked on it about 4 hours each evening. I took my time though. I photographed each step along the way w/ a digital camera because a 79 has an awful lot of vacuum lines and documenting each w/ pictures is the best way to go. My laptop got a little greasy though after looking at the pics so much. 383 Stroker Stump Puller Installation.

You should call around to different shops around your area and get quotes. You will see a lot of deviation in quotes i am sure.

However, If I were looking to save some money, like i did, I'd throw that joker in myself. It isn't difficult. I am not a mechanic by trade, actually, a Deputy Sheriff. But, by seeing how the parts came out, it makes it easier to put 'em back.

You'll love the 383!!

SgtDel

Edited by: SgtDel at: 10/19/05 1:52 pm
Title: Re: time estimate
Post by: Bobby Nelson on October 19, 2005, 03:09:00 pm: I tow a 20 ft. Bass Boat every week and heard that the 383 had good torque for towing, can you vouch for that? Is it a huge differnce over my 350?

Also, is my 350 worth anything for sell. When I say tired, I don't mean there is anything wrong with it. It runs great, has an Edelbrock Cam and Performance intake. About 85,000 miles on it. What carburator did you use on your 383 and did you do anything else to it............?

Thanks
Title: 383
Post by: Lt.Del on October 20, 2005, 09:34:00 am: They don't call 'em stump pullers for nothing. Yes, lots of torque. As you may have seen from my website, I pull around a 30 foot Dutchman camper, fully loaded the trailer is about 7,000 lbs. I cross over Virginia's Blue Ridge Mountains w/ out a hickup. Of course I put a tranny cooler in front of the radiator rated at about 15,000 lbs. That way I won't cook my th350 transmission. I threw in a new 4 core radiator. I have an edelbrock quadrajet carb ( i think it was model number 1903 from the edelbrock website) I bought it from PAWinc.com (ordered their catalog) for about $470. I can double check that part number if you need me to. It needed absolutely no adjustment. I kept all vacuum lines, egr, etc. stock. I put a new egr on her. I had the builder put an Edelbrock Performer intake on it. The part number was 3701 for EGR.

The engine has over 400 ft lbs of torque. I think it is rated at 335 horses, i had an RV cam put in it to take advantage of the lower rpms. I have a 3:08 rear, which is kind of high for a puller. But w/ the 383, it does fine. I use super unleaded because the motor wants to diesel after turn off when the cheap gas is in it. I changed to a cooler spark plug but it did little to change that.

As far as comparison to a 350, you can certainly build a 350 w/ basically all the power you want (you could get a Rick Hendricks engine :-), but, for the money, a 350 w/ a 400 crank and flex plate gives it that extra stroke for excellent torque. More bang for the buck.

And wouldn't you know, after all of this was done in May of 2004, my wife told me she was pregnant. A standard cab pickup just won't cut it now. I had to go to Arizona and get a rust-free 1991 Suburban. This way i have plenty of room for the car seat, wife, and can be prepared for any future siblings of my son. Heck, the sub can seat 9--scary thought.

As far as the old 350 w/ 85,000 miles, it isn't worth much unless it is rebuilt. But now you can get crate 350 basic engines for about $1500. You could use it as a trade in if your supplier requires a trade in core. You could always find a chevy that perhaps has a blown motor (car or truck) and drop that joker in it and resell.

During my project, everything from the old 350 to the new 383 was a clean bolt in. I didn't have to adapt anything. The 383 is a 350 block w/ a 400 crank, flexplate and balancer. Externally, there is no other difference. Motor mounts, hoses, starter, trans, alternator, water pump-hi volume by the way, belts....it is all the same.

'til next time

SgtDel

Edited by: SgtDel at: 10/20/05 9:43 am
Title: Re: 383
Post by: Bobby Nelson on October 20, 2005, 09:24:00 am: Del,

What did you gain from putting in the RV Cam and do you know what Cam you used? I would just hate to put out the substantial investment for the new motor and then feel like I had to take it apart to put a cam in it. My boat only tows at about 5200 Lbs., so maybe I would be fine with the Cam shaft that is in the 383 when I get it.

I already did the 4 core radiator last year, I tow through the Arizona and Nevada desert in the summer and never get above 190 deg. while towing so I think i'm good there.

Is the carburator a 650 Quadrajet or a 750

Thanks for your help
Title: 383
Post by: Lt.Del on October 20, 2005, 09:58:00 am: I have the cam dimensions at home. I don't know what the difference feels like, since this cam was installed when the motor was manufacured--can't compare it from a stock cam. But, theoritically, the RV cam allows more power at a lower rpm---helping w/ the big loads at lower speeds--which is when you need the power. I'll send the degrees and lift of the cam when i get home.

You stated you changed to the 4 core radiator, I hope you also have a trans cooler. You don't want to cook your transmission in the heat of the southwest.

The carb was an Edelbrock (formerly Rochester) Quadrajet. I think it was the 750 cfm model. I will edit this post when i have the model number--it is at home. I ordered it through the catalog of Paw which can be ordered from PAWinc.com.
Title: 383
Post by: Lt.Del on October 20, 2005, 11:13:00 am: If you "tow thru Arizona and Nevada" I am assuming you aren't far from Phoenix,AZ. If that is the case, I have included info on who made my engine. I ordered my 383 thru these guys because, after much shopping and comparing, they were the best deal for the buck. They shipped it to Va for free.

D&J Machine
518 E Dunlap Ave
Phoenix, AZ 85020

602-395-0800 Mon-Fri 8:00am to 5:00pm MST or
email enginebuilder_1@yahoo.com

I paid $2800 for the 383 4 bolt main. The specs are here.

If you talk to them and let them know what you are using the engine for, they'll customize it to your wishes. It'll be ready in 2 weeks.

SgtDel

Edited by: SgtDel at: 10/20/05 10:15 am
Title: Re: 383
Post by: Bobby Nelson on October 20, 2005, 12:11:00 pm: I live in Los Angeles but I tow to Az and Nevada alot. I don't have a separate trans coolor as I have a 4speed Manual Transmission and have never seen a cooler on one of these. Maybe I need to look into that further.

I am pretty much engine illiterate as far as my needs go in the Cam department. I only know the weight I tow and the questions I need to ask. Do you feel it was better to purchase your 383 from an independent builder versus a GM dealer. Did you get any kind of warranty?
Title: 383
Post by: Lt.Del on October 20, 2005, 01:38:00 pm: If you have a manual, you wont need any cooler. I assumed you had an auto.

Yeah, I had a warranty. I want to think it is 1 yr/ 10k miles. I think. You can shop around. Contact your local GM dealer to see about a crate 383...i think they make them now. If I remember correctly, an equivalent motor from GM was at least $4k or more. Their warranty is longer though, perhaps 3yr/36k. You can check. The guy with whom I spoke when I ordered the engine was Darl at the email/phone number listed earlier. Ask him what he offers. He'll customize it however you'd like.

The cam info is as follows:
Hydralic Flat tappet Cam
Advertised Duration is 280 Duration @.050" 214 .295" cam lift X 1.6 = .472" Valve lift
Ground on a 110 Lobe center.

I have the 76cc heads with 2.02"Int/1.600"Exh valves.

My carb was the edelbrock 1903. (My memory was pretty good at that earlier post). It has the hot air choke, non computer controlled, egr compatible, for vehicles prior to 1985. 795cfm. UPDATE: I HAVE BEEN INFORMED THE EDELBROCK 1903 QJET IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE.

SgtDel

Edited by: SgtDel at: 10/21/05 2:56 pm
Title: 383
Post by: Lt.Del on October 20, 2005, 01:44:00 pm: Do a yahoo search on your computer for "GM Crate Engine" This is what i found....the HT383 Crate Engine. over $4k if you factor in shipping.

Here's another page:
www.gmpartsdirect.com/performance_parts/frameset.cfm

Edited by: SgtDel at: 10/20/05 12:51 pm
Title: Re: 383
Post by: Blazin on October 21, 2005, 03:58:00 pm: Just my two cents, if you have a manual trans don't skimp on the clutch. Get a heavy duty, and it would be worth it to upgrade to a 12" as well. Don't buy a reman or a discount auto parts store brand either, get a brand new brand name, Sachs is what I have in my trucks but there are others, Center Force, LUK, Borg & Beck etc. good free flowing dual exhaust system would't hurt either.
Title: Re: 383
Post by: Bobby Nelson on October 24, 2005, 09:43:00 am: Blazin'
Have dual exhaust now with flowmasters. Will look into the heavy duty clutch as well when I am ready for the swap. Can the tranny and clutch all stay in place when I drop in the new motor??

Thanks
Title: Re: 383
Post by: roundedline on October 24, 2005, 10:27:00 am: No, the tranny will have to be aligned into the new clutch assembly. You are going to have to move it back and then align it.
Chris Lucas
www.73-87chevytrucks.com
www.captkaoscustoms.com
Project Su
Jimmy 2WD Project
Title: Re: 383
Post by: Bobby Nelson on October 24, 2005, 12:45:00 pm: Thanks for everones advice. As you can tell, I am pretty green when it comes to doing this stuff. I am, however, fairly mechanically inclined and I just can't see paying the shops labor rates for some of this stuff. I have never swapped an engine before and I am going to just crawl under and see what need to come off bolt by bolt. Is there a good overall manual that will guide me through this whole process? I would hate to have hardware or vacuum hoses left over when I am done and not know where they go?
My truck has no emmission controls and is pretty straight forward. It appears there is motor mounts to contend with and the tranny/flywheel section and that's about it, or is it??

Thanks
Title: 383
Post by: Lt.Del on October 24, 2005, 03:49:00 pm: Just take your time. If you have a digital camera, take many pics as you remove parts. It is all straight forward. You will have much pride in yourself once you accomplish the project. Take your battery out first. You must then pull the transmission since it is a manual. Remove the cross member under the trans. Remove driveshaft, mark the rear of the shaft w/ chalk or tape and a similar alignment mark on your differentials, so you line it up correctly. Note how the trans linkage is before you remove all of it.

A good trick to do is buy a pack of ziplock bags. Get a black magic marker. One bag could be reserved for each item you remove. Label it accordingly (ie: alternator bolts, hood bolts, motor mount bolts, drive shaft u-bolts, carb bolts, starter bolts, trans bolts, a/c compressor bolts, water pump bolts, radiator bolts, etc.. you get the idea).

Get new fuel line that goes from pump to carb. Remove fuel pump b4 taking motor out so you wont hit that against something.

Get new exhaust manifold gaskets. You can either remove the manifolds from the heads then take the motor out, or remove the pipe going to the manifolds. My bolts for the flange where the pipe meets the manifold where pretty corroded, so I didn't bother loosening these, i just unbolted the manifolds from the heads. It was a little tricky lining the bolt holes back up to the new heads, but w/ patience, it was completed.

Take masking tape and mark the spark plug wires. Remove the distributor so you wont break it when taking the motor out. Mark the alt. wire clip. Take negative cable off. Ensure you remove the ground wire attached from block to firewall. Make a note how the carb linkage is attached. Get new motor mounts when you put the new motor in--they're inexpensive. Get a new water pump if the new motor doens't come w/ it....i got a high volume type from NAPA ($80). Get new fan belts, plugs, coil, cap and rotor.

I have many, many pics I took when i removed my old 350. I can attach them here or email them to ya when you're working on it.

SgtDel
www.delbridge.net
Edited by: SgtDel at: 10/24/05 3:18 pm
Title: Re: 383
Post by: Bobby Nelson on October 24, 2005, 03:49:00 pm: Del,
What do you mean by the Alternator wire clip? Also, the ground that is attached to my firewall is just hanging free right now. I had no idea where it went and what it accomplished, but I can see it just hanging free right now and it has been for a long time.....

I suppose if my trans has a leaking front seal, now would be a good time to have it replaced also.

Did your 383 come with a distibutor or did you buy a new one and or use your old one? When I buy parts such as the water-pump etc, are they the same parts as a 350 would be. Do I need to tell the parts guys what motor I have?/

Thanks
Title: Re: 383
Post by: DnStClr on October 24, 2005, 04:54:00 pm: Bobby, is the ground strap hanging from the firewall near the passenger side of the engine? There should be a strap from the firewall to the engine in that location. It's an engine ground.
Title: Re: 383
Post by: Bobby Nelson on October 24, 2005, 05:21:00 pm: Yes, the strap is hooked to the firewall, but just hanging loose and attached to nothing. It doesn't appear that it is long enough to reach the block anywhere? It is about 7 or 8 inches long. There has been no ill effects that i can tell from this not being connected?
Title: Re: 383
Post by: roundedline on October 24, 2005, 05:45:00 pm: It needs to be connected. That is an important ground wire. It should connect to the back of the head or the tranny mount.
Chris Lucas
www.73-87chevytrucks.com
www.captkaoscustoms.com
Project Su
Jimmy 2WD Project
Title: 383
Post by: Lt.Del on October 25, 2005, 12:04:00 am: When buying parts for it, just tell the parts guy it is a 350. It is, afterall, a 350 block, just the crank, flywheel and damper are from a 400. Chances are, all parts are the same anyway, small block chevy is a small block chevy, be it a 350 or 400. Everything, and I mean everything, from my 350 bolted to my 383.

The distributor did not come w/ the motor. I simply took the old one out of my 350 and with new coil, cap, rotor, placed it in the 383.

The ground strap, as Chris stated, usually connects to the cylinder head just below the valve cover. You have the same accessory holes (alt brackets, ac compressor brackets, etc)on both ends of the cylinder heads, they can be inverted front to back. The holes aren't needed on the back side of the head where the firewall is, you can find a bolt that fits the threads of these holes and attach it to that. The strap looks like a braided strap w/a 3/8 or 7/16 bolt head holding it to the firewall. The is the primary ground on your negative ground system. Chances are your vehicle chasis now is getting ground from the engine, via transmission bolts (ie crossmember or driveshaft) The motor mounts may fulfill the negative circuit but there is a lot of rubber insulation there. Exhaust system can complete the circuit too. But you need the ground strap fro least resistance of negative ground....see pic

I told you I had a lot of pics while taking my old motor out.

The alternator clip is just the wires (hot) that lead to a white plastic clip that clips to the side of the alt. It charges your battery and provides the positive current to your vehicle. You may not need to label that if you can remember where it goes.

And don't forget to mark your hood hinges w/ chalk or crayon when removing it.

Andy

SgtDel

Edited by: SgtDel at: 10/24/05 11:15 pm