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General Site Info => General Discussion => Topic started by: zieg85 on September 04, 2024, 11:10:55 pm
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My 67 with this carb pictured runs good once it is started. Within the last year it refuses to start unless you squirt a little gas down it. Would this indicate a bad accelerator pump? This is my first Edelbrock on anything.
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When the engine is cold and not running, peek down the carburetor throat with a good flashlight and manually operate the throttle. A good accelerator pump will provide an instantaneous and well defined squirt with each throttle opening. The volume and forcefulness of the fuel injected into the throat will depend on how quickly and how far you rotate the throttle. Generally, you should see 3 - 4 strong squirts before the fuel bowl is depleted.
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When the engine is cold and not running, peek down the carburetor throat with a good flashlight and manually operate the throttle. A good accelerator pump will provide an instantaneous and well defined squirt with each throttle opening. The volume and forcefulness of the fuel injected into the throat will depend on how quickly and how far you rotate the throttle. Generally, you should see 3 - 4 strong squirts before the fuel bowl is depleted.
I don't see any. Are all Edelbrocks pretty much the same for kits?
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Now, start the engine and let it run for a minute. Shut the engine off and recheck the accelerator pump operation. If it works after running the engine, you'll need to determine whether the fuel bowl is draining out while sitting for a spell.
Couldn't say on the Edelbrock kits, but I would anticipate some differences between carb models.
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Now, start the engine and let it run for a minute. Shut the engine off and recheck the accelerator pump operation. If it works after running the engine, you'll need to determine whether the fuel bowl is draining out while sitting for a spell.
Couldn't say on the Edelbrock kits, but I would anticipate some differences between carb models.
Thanks I know if I start it, shut it off like going to a car cruise, it will restart. The fuel filter stays full. I will look further into it and report back. Thanks Rich
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Whoa, I have the same symptom with my Holley 4bbl. If it sits several days I can't start it without starting fluid/gas. But once it's running it runs great, and it will start right away if you start it every few days. I'll definitely be watching this thread to learn how to diagnose the issue.
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Sounds like a weak or failing fuel pump.
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Sounds like a weak or failing fuel pump.
Fuel pump is new, fuel filter is full. My 67 is about to go into storage soon anyway. Thanks for the reply JP
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How long did it set between uses? I have a 1406 on my 78. If it sits more than 8 or 9 days its hard to start because all the gas has evaporated out of the bowls. I have an open type air filter. That lets it evaporate faster.
Could be an accelerator pump, but if all the gas has evaporated out of it the pump wont pump anything...
What is the time period between trys to start it?
If it starts today but not tomorrow.. theres a leak somewhere. if it starts today but not in a week, maybe a bad fuel pump letting the fuel run backwards back into the tank.
My 78 always had fuel pump problems, every 6 months. I always bought the store brand fuel pumps for $20 to fix it. it would work great for 6-8 months. turns out it was cheap fuel pumps. I bought an Edelbrock #1721 fuel pump for oh about $140 or so 6 years ago... I know people say my stock 350 doesnt need that and I agree. ECEXPT.. that pump has been good for the last 6 years. no failures. My stock 78 engine has a bunch of hotrod parts on it. not because i think they are cool. but because I got tired of buying and replacing the cheap parts every year. the edelbrock pump has worked out for my beautifully. the normal $25-$55 pumps are all cheap garbage. buy the Edelbrock and be done with it.
That I will spend on necessary extra on parts like that is why my truck is so reliable. you can buy one edelbrock pump for $160 and be done with it or you can buy a $25 pump every 8 or 9 months. I figured out I need my truck to work when I need it not when it feels like it.
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The stocker type pumps the diaphragm would fail and let all the fuel from the carb be sucked back into the tank. couldn't let the truck set for more than 4 days and it would be hard to start for lack of fuel. after the edelbrock upgrade it goes two weeks plus before lack of gas is a problem.
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thoughts on the fuel pump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-HWAccynrA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-HWAccynrA)
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How long did it set between uses? I have a 1406 on my 78. If it sits more than 8 or 9 days its hard to start because all the gas has evaporated out of the bowls. I have an open type air filter. That lets it evaporate faster.
Could be an accelerator pump, but if all the gas has evaporated out of it the pump wont pump anything...
What is the time period between trys to start it?
If it starts today but not tomorrow.. theres a leak somewhere. if it starts today but not in a week, maybe a bad fuel pump letting the fuel run backwards back into the tank.
My 78 always had fuel pump problems, every 6 months. I always bought the store brand fuel pumps for $20 to fix it. it would work great for 6-8 months. turns out it was cheap fuel pumps. I bought an Edelbrock #1721 fuel pump for oh about $140 or so 6 years ago... I know people say my stock 350 doesnt need that and I agree. ECEXPT.. that pump has been good for the last 6 years. no failures. My stock 78 engine has a bunch of hotrod parts on it. not because i think they are cool. but because I got tired of buying and replacing the cheap parts every year. the edelbrock pump has worked out for my beautifully. the normal $25-$55 pumps are all cheap garbage. buy the Edelbrock and be done with it.
That I will spend on necessary extra on parts like that is why my truck is so reliable. you can buy one edelbrock pump for $160 and be done with it or you can buy a $25 pump every 8 or 9 months. I figured out I need my truck to work when I need it not when it feels like it.
A little update. After 2 weeks of sitting the fuel filter is still full. What made the most sense to me is the carb is dry after a few days. I will crank it a little to get the carb filled with fuel again then start pumping it to set the choke and it will take off. This points to the carb leaking down to me. It is real close to the time to put it away for a winter's nap anyway and depending on what else happens in life I have big plans to convert it to PDB and a manual transmission to get it more enjoyable to drive. Thanks Kenny!
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When my 78 has sat too long and The fuel has evaporated out of the bowls it take a good 20+ seconds of cranking to make it light off. Before that with the crap fuel pumps, it would take 40-50 seconds to pull fuel from the tank to the pump and then to the engine and fill the bowls enough to run. if it starts in less than 10 seconds or so after 2 weeks of sitting you must have a closed air filter or a better filter than I do. When I used to have the old clear fuel filters, It would stay full looking for 1.5 months or so.
To the original post. If you have a bad accelerator pump. It will stall when you blip it because you suddenly have way too much air for the mixture. the AP squirts a shot of fuel in there to make that difference up. even if set up poorly, it should squirt enough fuel to keep it from dying/stalling out.
Easiest way to check your accelerator pump is to make sure the bowl is full. With engine off, look down the throttle primary bores (you'll see the tubes above the venturis) and hit the throttle (give it a full pump by hand) full while looking down there. you should see an obvious BIG squirt of fuel on the left and right side.. if you don't see that big squirt of fuel accelerator pump is bad or weak. The big squirt should also be about equal from left to right side venturi. If they are not equal that is a problem too as in there is dirt in something. that means you need to fully disassemble the carb and clean it. if its had too much gas evaporate too many times it may be dirty. When the gas evaporates the volatiles of the fuel go away but not the solids. if you let it evaporate off too much you will get a build up of those solids and have to disassemble the carb and clean off those solids.
Edelbrocks, the way they're made, the fuel bowls cannot leak into the engine because the entire bottom half of the carb is one piece. no gaskets to fail. not like a Holley with gaskets top and bottom of valve body. either fuel is being sucked out the venturis into the engine or its all evaporating out of the bowls. an open air cleaner vs a stock one, the open one will dry up faster.
The clear fuel filter looking full is not an indication there is fuel in there. Ignore that. the filter may be full and (looking like it's) holding some fuel but the lines before it and after it are dry and have air in them.
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Years ago (45?) there was an inline spring loaded ball check valve for sale. 3/8?
Can't recall a brand
I do recall by placing it inline before the carb solved many issues listed on this thread,i.e. worn out diaphragm/fuel pump plunger/weak failing Fuel pump
Picture this: somewhat charged or decent battery, combined with a tired starter-slow turnover of a tired fuel pump...fuel coming from the tank? or maybe between the tank and fuel pump...= SLOW
I'm sure Bill Cosby could elicit the sound of the chaos... 8)
It might be old school, but keeping fuel in the line closest to the carb makes the most sense to me.
Interestingly I bought a new battery from Cco and it didn't affect the starter performance. Thinking the battery was a dud, exchanged, only to find the 'Starter' was the worn out piece. When starting now, I turn the motor over while pumping the pedal.
According to GM instructions, one pedal pump is needed to fire up a Rochester enabled engine. I am here to attest, that, in the well defined and practically implemented tuning measures, one slight tap on the gas pedal is enough to fire her up...
Inline check valve in place, within 1 minute or significantly less, fuel is present in the accelerator and she blazes!!!
All that said, the variables are many: battery/starter condition; fuel pump pressure/volume; carb accelerator pump condition or lack there of...
I'd start with an inline one-way check valve close to the carb. At least you will eliminate a few questions off your list.
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I like the one-way ball check valve idea. I had experimented with this before for similar issues in fuel lines but ultimately abandoned it because of inferior one way valves (plastic with seam=leaky). Your post got me thinking about this again so I went digging on Ebay for something sturdier and still cheap. Found a 3/8" ball check valve with no leaky seam or joint, intended for the high pressures of hydraulic fluid. Might need a spring modification inside but looks like it comes apart easily enough. I ordered one and will take a look at it when it arrives:
Hydraulic Check Valve: 3/8” x 3/8” Male NPT, Inline Ball Valve | 82663-06 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/324655988838?_skw=ball+check+valve+3%2F8&itmmeta=01JAD3RM8PWCD3ZB343V8881MX&hash=item4b97014066:g:Sc0AAOSwF3BeqGOn&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKkLNTFw%2B%2BQLQ5%2BTLqgIF5I%2BtEyW6SxmSfVkaXlpzu9wTEyhPhhPEAkAMwwC9l1UmkRAaev68Lryrz91Hst2CaRx1RZ8YK6%2FT0NuI1ZWvgH8Wj1s135HcLNkssTUeDLxCQiGLcXHy4nKdino1%2Fu57NKrROYMi5N6mAo3ogPz5TupHabzrOpSJbWn8Db9sfk60tmrioJG74NmpqQksQe9C8yIoqbqJWPxcRuPjG1Nd41LCKpz3wrYb6%2FNxmULGaCxNZ8pL0br%2FDlNuk596517DkRG1zkR1XV3nNn%2FjMROPssjCw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7bE4qPTZA)
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You can get the check valve (1/4" female pipe threaded) in NAPA Fuel Pumps p/n# a0001q, or Delphi p/n# fa10016, but I think its all in the carb, which will be full of what looks like sand, but it's the ethanol-heavy fuels' effect. >:(
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I like those parts you referenced. Found a Carter version on Ebay and ordered it too. All look much better than anything I've found locally.
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I like the fact that they don't have built-in nipples so that you can can change sizes, use 45 or 90 degree fittings, or even A/N fittings, or with inverted-seat adapters, can plumb into steel line.
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Do you have an open air filter element? Like the edelbrock open elements? If so that lets the fuel evaporate out of the bowls faster than the stock closed filter housing does.
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I seem to have solved my issue. I installed a 1 way valve prior to my fuel filter. Filter stays full now and it starts up like a 67 should. I still need to confirm this when the weather gets hot but so far so good.
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Bravo Zeig!
Sorry, have to ask: What in the world is that spark plug cable bracket doing attached to the carb mounting bolt? Is it there to nestle the filter close to the intake? I don't see any zip ties to confirm, ergo the question... :o
If so, might it do better by elevating the filter to the top side of the MacGyver bracket, away for the hot manifold? Radiant heat will boil out gasoline. ;D
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Bravo Zeig!
Sorry, have to ask: What in the world is that spark plug cable bracket doing attached to the carb mounting bolt? Is it there to nestle the filter close to the intake? I don't see any zip ties to confirm, ergo the question... :o
Yes, good eye! It was actually supporting my previous inline filter that was hose clamped to it. This is a glass filter that I am looking into plastic clamps to re-engineer the support. I have not run the car that way past starting it and running it for 10-15 minutes at a time. I still haven't got it out for the season yet.
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My 67 with this carb pictured runs good once it is started. Within the last year it refuses to start unless you squirt a little gas down it. Would this indicate a bad accelerator pump? This is my first Edelbrock on anything.
Thats a gorgeous car! I'd start with accelerator pump.
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How long does it have to sit before the hard start happens?
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My 67 with this carb pictured runs good once it is started. Within the last year it refuses to start unless you squirt a little gas down it. Would this indicate a bad accelerator pump? This is my first Edelbrock on anything.
Thats a gorgeous car! I'd start with accelerator pump.
Thanks, problem solved
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How long does it have to sit before the hard start happens?
I really can't say due to not driving it much. Usually it was after a week. I deducted my fuel filter was empty so I looked further into it and found the fuel line empty. It was either leaking out, which there were no signs of that, or draining back into the tank seeking the fuel level. I tried a new Carter fuel pump, which didn't help so either the new one was a dud or something else was going on. I installed a one way valve before the fuel filter and now the filter stays full and the car starts like a 67 carbureted cars did. I do plan on replacing all the rubber fuel line which in these models there is more than what GM ever put in them. It is a rubber line past the frame rail under the drivers side seat to the fuel pump which is about 4'. It goes up and over the inner fender well and back down to the fuel pump.