73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => 73-87 Chevy & GMC Trucks => Topic started by: avanti on November 19, 2007, 02:31:22 pm
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Hi,
Just found this excellent forum. :)
I am looking to buy a Chevrolet C20 no newer than 1978 (when they reach 30 years, I don't pay road tax and the insurance is very low).
Anyways, I have found a couple of 1978 models, the first with a rolled paint job and a 350/350. According to the owner its rust free which is a huge bonus.
The second one is more original looking with 350/400. It seems to me that this one has a longer bed, does anyone have the different bed measurements? The prices are about the same, and I don't mind the paint on the first one.
I am leaning towards the first one, but is the 400transmission "better"?
Thanks :)
The pictures:
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/2007/11/19/2340752447.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/2007/11/19/2330545293.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/2007/11/19/3657671895.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/2007/11/19/3602568318.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/2007/11/19/3638941422.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/2007/11/19/3600884483.jpg)
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The brown one looks less molested and the better truck, imho. The blue truck obviously has had a lot done to it, and you cannot be sure of the quality and given the roller paint, You might be able to extrapolate that other corners were cut.
Just my opinion based on pics and there were no pics of the engine on the brown truck to compare.
The blue one has a few nice goodies and dressy things and it is a short wheelbase 6 1/2 ft bed and some say, more popular. On the other hand, the brown one has tilt -- that is a big plus if you have any size to you. I personaly like the 8 ft bed better. I mean if your just going to have one truck, make it big enough to do the job.
The th400 is stronger, but is not as efficient as the th350.
In the end, buy the one that would be easier to get to where you want it to be. What are you goals for the truck?
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A th400 is better as far as towing, pulling etc. It is a stronger trans.
C20's (3/4 ton) Only came in longbeds from the factory, Long beds were 8ft, short beds were 6ft. If one is a 6ft bed, it most likely is a C10 (1/2 Ton)
I would check the floor pans UNDER whatever flooring is there, rockers, cab corners, kick panels, cowl area, radiator support where the battery goes, inner fender on the same side, bottom front and rear of the fenders. on the bed check the wheel openings. If being a 78 model I find it very hard to believe that it is rust free, especially if it has a roll on paint job.
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Thanks for the replies guys. :)
Firstly regarding my goals for the truck; I don't really plan on hauling much, maybe a motorcycle on the bed once in a while. I am getting it because I love pickup trucks in general, and the C/K is my favorite. It will be more for posing than anything "useful" 8) Thats why I'm leaning towards the blue one, I love the way it looks!
Captkaos: ..............
So regarding the blue truck, it is a C10 or a modified (shortened C20)?
The seller of the blue one states that;
- its a C20 (probably a C10 then, I guess I could find out if I got the VIN number?)
- it has a 8 ft bed (which it doesn't seem to have)
- 8-bolt axle
- new exhaust system
- new starter motor
- the engine has recently been overhauled
- it is rustproofed
- the rocker panels, doors and floor is new.
regarding the paint, it is quite popular to roll paint cars in Sweden so I'm hoping there are no surprises under the paint...
I will try and have a look at it asap, but its good to know what to look for!
From looking at the pictures which "goodies and dressy things" have you found? Anything under the hood?
Thanks again guys!
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The Blue one could be a shortened 3/4T. It could be a K10 (4x4) but I can't tell from the pics...
The VIN will tell you everything unless someone swapped cabs/VIN.
Not sure what you mean by 8 lug axle, are you talking about the wheel pattern has 8 lugs?
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I would go with the unmolested one. Then, later you'll have the option to upgrade. Do you really want an engine that was tuned by a normal guy that you don't know? Or, and engine that has been running and the carb forever untouched or unplayed with? I think it is pretty obvious...but it is your decision. Good luck with your choice!!!
BTW how much are they asking for them (don't worry I don't want to buy either)
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is it hard to get parts for these trucks in europe? i didnt know they sold american pickups outside north and south america.
Sutton
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i think the blue one is a long bed also. if you look closely at the picture you can see what maybe a stake pocket in the middle of the bed. short beds didnt have the center stake pocket.
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if I had to choose one for free :-\ , I would defenetly choose the brown colored virgin truck ;) . it's clean for being a '78.
on the blue/red....ect. truck the only good thing i see is the old chrome p/s pump and the chrome brake booster........
so we leave it up to you to decide..... the blue looks full of surprises :o >:( :o
both look long beds 2 me.
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the blue one is a C20. it has 8 lugs and it IS a longbed. but, if they were cheap enough to roll on the paint then i don't wanna think about what else they skimped on. i, too, would choose the brown one...looks like it's in a lot better shape...nice and original...
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Thanks for the replies guys. So maybe it is just the angle of the photo that makes the blue one look shorter, and in fact they are the same size?
I guess the brown one is the smarter choice. As mentioned above, I can modify it any way I want or chose to keep it original.
The asking price for the brown one is 3.500USD while the blue one is 4.300USD, quite a difference.
Old American cars in general are extremely popular in scandinavia, so parts are very easy to find, also for trucks.
Regarding the transmission, performance wise, which is the better. Since the 400 is stronger, does that make the truck slower?
I must say, the more I look at the brown one the more I like it. Is it possible to see from the pictures if it is the Custom Deluxe, Scottsdale, Cheyenne or Silverado?
Another bonus with the brown one it that it recently passed the EU examination (we have to have our cars examined by a certified garage every two years in Europe to prove that they are road worthy), the blue one still needs to pass the test.
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No. I wouldn't call either or any of our trucks fast stock. The 400 is supposed to be stronger. It doesn't really matter though. You said this is going to be a "pose" truck and not really driven all that much. If you were really into both of them...then test drive them both and go check them out. We really can't tell you much more that what we can see in the pics, you'll have to make the decision on your own. Good luck!!!
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The 2 tone truck in my opinion is more desirable. It isn't a base model truck due to the exterior trim, chrome door trim, and interior.
The blue truck is a Custom Deluxe: no chrome and no A/C. Check the glovebox for the RPO codes on both and compare them.
The transmission doesn't make it slower, but the engine looses about 10-15hp more to turn the TH400 over the TH350. Both are good trans, just one will take more abuse.
Pricing on the blue one is a little high compared to the optioned Brown one.
BTW, if you want to find a distinct model, the 77's were the only year that the trim was gold instead of black like all the other years from 73-80 (short of speical editions like the Gentleman Jim for example)
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WOW....... :o $3,500usd - $4,300usd is quite expensive for my taste. wow!!!
Are these the only 2 you have seen?
I mean can you find a cleaner, cheaper, 2 wheel drive, shortbed for this kind of money?
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WOW....... :o $3,500usd - $4,300usd is quite expensive for my taste. wow!!!
Are these the only 2 you have seen?
I mean can you find a cleaner, cheaper, 2 wheel drive, shortbed for this kind of money?
This is Scandinavia, unfortunately the clean ones are closer to 10.000USD than 5.000USD :(
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well, there is no badging on the blue one, but it looks like it's a Custom Deluxe (as mentioned before)...as for the two-tone one, looks to me like it's a Silverado (from trying to read the badging...it's a Scottsdale or a Silverado but it has the "brushed aluminum" inside trim, so that says Silverado) but it's an "oddball" Silverado that has no A/C...but maybe there that's common since its colder
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Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a nice one over here and ship it back?
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shot box is 6 1/2 feet long is 8, the turbo 400 tranny is only good for robbing 35 hp and u will only need it if you beat your truck 24/7 the 350/350 and no rust is the way to go
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for the money the brown two tone one looks in better shape. if this one hasn't been rebuilt or modified under the hood like the blue one then its definitely the better one because a stock truck that hasn't been touched will most likely run smoother then one that someone has tried to tune.
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two tone
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Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a nice one over here and ship it back?
I wonder how much the shipping would cost. I could consider shipping mine over there and selling it if they are getting $10k for them. ;D
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Thanks for the replies guys.
I have changed my opinion, of the two listed I am definitely going for the brown one. My goals might slightly change too, from posing to more work related.
I have a question regarding the reliability of these trucks, I might be doing 1.400 mile trips with two motorcycles on the bed and another two on a trailer. what type of milage could I expect, on average, we are talking highway crusing at 50 miles pr hour. Should i expect any mechanical problems or are well maintained trucks bulletproof..?
thanks again.
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Out of a 4x4, depending on gearing, tire size, engine condition, etc, you can expect 6-10 mpg, maybe a bit better at 50 mph. As far as reliability goes, as long as the truck is very well maintained, theres not much that will jump out and bite you in the ass suddenly, most of it gives you some kind of warning.
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Properly tuned 4x4's should get about 12mpg max highway in stock configuration., 4x2 should be about 15-17 depending. 3/4T would be on the low end at about 12mpg
I have driven my 87 daily for almost 3 years now. I wouldn't blink to drive it long distances.
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Two years ago when I bought my 91 3/4t sub 4x4, I drove it sight unseen from Arizona to Virginny (2400 miles) with no problemo. BTW I average about 12.5 mpg with it. Driving 50mph at a constant speed, expect a bit more with a pickup.
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My dad used to get 17mpg on the freeway with his burb. It was an early 90's with tbi. It was also a 4x4 with a 700r4...I wish I would have bought that.
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I just spoke to the owner of the brown one, it is a 2WD C20, 100% original, engine and trans. in very good condition. The only problem was that there is some rust (holes) on the fenders and at the bottom of the doors, not that big a problem, according to the seller new doors can be had for about 150USD, and I don't mind some welding either if necessary, will keep you posted.
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What is the standard wheel rim size for the 78 C20? And how many bolt holes are there? I like white spoke rims and have found some 7 x 15 6 bolt rims, would they be OK?
(http://213.132.112.100/images/48/4862129125.jpg)
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What is the standard wheel rim size for the 78 C20? And how many bolt holes are there? I like white spoke rims and have found some 7 x 15 6 bolt rims, would they be OK?
(http://213.132.112.100/images/48/4862129125.jpg)
C20 are 8 lug rims
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C20 are 8 lug rims
What about the standard tire & rim size?
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The earlier ones had 16.5" rims. I don't know when 16" became standard.
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In the states 16" are easier to come by and less expensive to buy. Either way if you are looking for different rims either size will work as long as they are the 8 lug for our GM bolt pattern. The new Ford stuff is different.
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Fear the spray chrome. That's all I'm gonna say.
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thanks again for the replies guys, unfortunately both the ones I posted in this thread were sold before I had time to take a look at them.
I have another question regarding the diesel versions, what is the difference between the 350 diesel and the 350 gasoline? Is the diesel very slow? Is it possible to convert a diesel to gasoline?
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The 350 Diesel is like the olds 350 not like a small block Chevy. It's a total boat anchor...
It is possible to convert a gas to a diesel but not very practical
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i think the blue one is a long bed also. if you look closely at the picture you can see what maybe a stake pocket in the middle of the bed. short beds didnt have the center stake pocket.
I think your on to something.
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Yep, stay away from the 350 diesels unless you have plans to swap in a gas engine or a 6.2/6.5 diesel almost immediately. Those things are cursed. I've never seen one survive past 80k miles without needing MAJOR work..its an olds engine (BOP bellhousing), gets crappy mileage and is a DOG for power..converting it to gas is not an economical choice either, as you can buy a running 350 gas engine cheaper than you could convert it, especially if you have it done rather than do it yourself. The 350 diesel was designed for passenger transportation only, a pickup with that engine could not be used for towing or carrying more than 500-600 lbs, and if it crapped out on you, they'd tell you you towed with it and void any "warranty".
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Thanks again guys for the replies, I really appreciate it! A little recap; both the trucks that I posted in the beginning of the thread have been sold unfortunately, but i am still looking.
If its no problem I have a few more questions. When I started the thread I was only intereseted in a truck to ride around in, but now my needs have changed a bit. I might be transporting up to 3 motorcycles on the bed, so I was wondering what is the "real-life" loading capacity of a late 70s early 80s C10 vs. a C20? I suppose 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton turned in to just a "model-name" after a while?
3 motorcycles, at up to 200kgs each makes a total of about 1.325lbs., would that be OK on the back of a C10?
Also, I would really appreciate if someone had the missing bed measurements (long bed version).
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/2008/01/03/bed.jpg)
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Thanks again guys for the replies, I really appreciate it! A little recap; both the trucks that I posted in the beginning of the thread have been sold unfortunately, but i am still looking.
If its no problem I have a few more questions. When I started the thread I was only intereseted in a truck to ride around in, but now my needs have changed a bit. I might be transporting up to 3 motorcycles on the bed, so I was wondering what is the "real-life" loading capacity of a late 70s early 80s C10 vs. a C20? I suppose 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton turned in to just a "model-name" after a while?
3 motorcycles, at up to 200kgs each makes a total of about 1.325lbs., would that be OK on the back of a C10?
Also, I would really appreciate if someone had the missing bed measurements (long bed version).
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/2008/01/03/bed.jpg)
I will try to get you the dimensions of my bed, and post tomorrow if I have the time. As for the Motorcylces, you don't have their dimensions posted, and personally I have only seen two full size Yamaha 250's/450's Moto Cross Bikes, standing up right side by side(properly anchored in the bed), and a stripped down one with both wheels(if not the front forks too) removed at the back of the truck.
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I think it sounds like a 3/4 would be better for your needs. And, 3 motorcycles in a bed is quite a bit. The most I have ever had is 2, I haven't seen 3 yet.
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Thanks guys, what are the exact limits for load on a C10?
It might not be room for three bikes, they will be sports bikes, not moto cross bikes. So the dimensions will be about 29 inches wide and 81 inches long.
I was thinking about putting them like these, maybe it is too optimistic...
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/2008/01/03/bedbikes.jpg)
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Dimension A = Short Bed 72"/ Long Bed 96"
Dimension B = 72" (at the floor)
Dimension C = 50"
There is no way to get that many sport bikes in the back of a long or short bed comfortably. A standard 4 wheeler ATV will JUST fit in the framerails. At 8 feet you are looking at only Long beds BTW. The most I have ever had was 2 and that was motorcross bikes which are narrower. Sport Bikes are MUCH wider...
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Sounds like somebody needs a trailer
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Yeah 3 is probably too much. If we disregard the motorcycles for a moment, what is the loading capacities of the C10 and the C20? I am just looking at long bed trucks btw.
Thanks again guys! :) I really appreciate all the help you are giving to a truck newbie! This is a great forum, hopefully I will be able to post pictures of my truck soon!
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The question is really not as easy to answer as it appears. There were lots of packages for the 1/2 ton c10 that would increase it's capacity near that of the 3/4 ton c20. 1300lbs would be too much for a 1/2 ton to carry regularly. That said, I would not hesitate to throw 900lbs in mine a drive across country given the extra springs it came with from the factory. There is a sticker on all these trucks stating the gross wieght, and this number depends on your options.
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My old '84 half ton long bed GMC regularly saw 2000-4000 lbs in the bed with a set of gabriel coil-over overload shocks. Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to load a half ton with 1 ton of stuff and drive around all the time with it. A guy my dad and I worked with on a lot of our BIG tree jobs where we needed two trucks running debris to the brush pile never left the site with less than 5000 lbs unless it was all brush, and it was a 1/2 ton.
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Yep, stay away from the 350 diesels unless you have plans to swap in a gas engine or a 6.2/6.5 diesel almost immediately. Those things are cursed. I've never seen one survive past 80k miles without needing MAJOR work..its an olds engine (BOP bellhousing), gets crappy mileage and is a DOG for power..converting it to gas is not an economical choice either, as you can buy a running 350 gas engine cheaper than you could convert it, especially if you have it done rather than do it yourself. The 350 diesel was designed for passenger transportation only, a pickup with that engine could not be used for towing or carrying more than 500-600 lbs, and if it crapped out on you, they'd tell you you towed with it and void any "warranty".
What about the mid-80's goodwrench crate engines? I believe all of them used the new 'DX' block, which made them more reliable. My '81 diesel had the origianal engine replaced with a crate in '84. I haven't got it running yet, so I can't say how much power it has or how good it runs.
...sorry for going off topic.
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Crate or not, the 350 diesel is a junk motor as a diesel. The block is good for making large displacement small block strokers..I think I read they can be taken out to be a 440 CI stroker and still be streetable, a 454 stroker if it will only see the dragstrip. My grandfather's 79 had a 350 diesel..1/2 ton, VERY low GVWR, 2wd, 400 trans, somthing around a 3.42 rear end, it got 16-17 mpg highway @ 55mph, 45 up hill unless you dropped the hammer. When you figure you can build a 350 gas engine with TBI and see that mileage, and gas is cheaper than diesel (Gas here is 2.83, diesel is 3.29), unless you're making biodiesel and running a heavy mixture, the 350 diesel will cost you MORE to drive, and have a LOT less power. Not to mention if you live in a cold climate, biodiesel gels a LOT worse than regular diesel, so you spend a lot more money on anti-gel..
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The 350 diesel is the only motor that a GM dealership owner would admit was a piece of junk. (was talking to him about it when I was ordering parts, funny conversation.)
My truck had it at one point in it's life. But it kept blowing head gaskets. Most people with those engines did a 350 Gasoline engine swap.