73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => 4 Wheel Drives => Transfer Cases and Front Drivelines => Topic started by: qboy on December 17, 2007, 07:20:33 pm
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I want to change the gear ratio so I can cruise on the freeway better and I don't want to have to pay to have the front changed when I don't use the 4 wheel drive. I heard I could remove the front drive shaft if I just want to change the rear gears. Is this true? What's involved in doing this?
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Removing about 8 bolts...Just make certain that you NEVER EVER USE 4WD.
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What if you need the 4wd? Why not just get bigger tires?
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If the tires were the same all around then there would still be a mismatch in gear ratios from front to rear. Now if you put different size tires on the front to correct the ratio mismatch then......
When I did my Ford Expedition gears (from 3.31 to 4.10) I did both the front and rear. It's the only way to do it correctly, in my opinion.
Jeff
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This will hurt the resale value of the truck, as the next owner will have to correct the rear gear back to what its suposed to be. Why don't you get a 2 wheel drive truck? Or better yet get a Toyota Carolla, or Honda Accord if you want milage?
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That depends also on whether or not you have an unconverted NP203 or a part-time 4x4 setup in the first place. If you are not part time, then you will be asking for trouble and sentencing you T-case to death. I know as I am getting ready to rebuild my NP203 after the previous owner did this and ruined the case. I can actually hear it chatter over the noise of the engine when I drive it.
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Mine is not full time. I've got the floor mounted lever to put it in 4wheel high 4wheel low. I never use the 4wheel drive. I believe I've got 3.73 gears.
My options are:
1) keep it as is (high revs on the freeway)
2) paying to have front and rear gears changed (expensive)
3) getting a 700r4 tranny (expensive)
4) removing the front driveshaft and changing the rear gears (not sure if this is dangerous or could harm any components)
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How high you revving on the highway? Yeah, I guess you could do that. I'd just get matching axles from your donor truck. But you could just swap the rear. I did it once, but I ended up needing the 4x4 shortly after.
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Honestly, go get a honda/toyota car for mpg. You wont be changing your end mpg by dropping the front driveline, but you will probably reduce the truck's value by maybe half. Not to mention reducing your functionability. Running two sizes of tyres is stupid, and cause just as much damage as not running them.
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to answer your question...no, you won't hurt anything by running sans front driveshaft. i've seen people do it for years. it doesn't matter. heck, you can LEAVE IT IN, just don't lock your hubs in or engage 4wd and you'll be fine. just do yourself and your truck and its future owner a favor...fix the rear now, save up and fix the front later...it's not THAT expensive...
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Mine is not full time. I've got the floor mounted lever to put it in 4wheel high 4wheel low. I never use the 4wheel drive. I believe I've got 3.73 gears.
My options are:
1) keep it as is (high revs on the freeway)
2) paying to have front and rear gears changed (expensive)
3) getting a 700r4 tranny (expensive)
4) removing the front driveshaft and changing the rear gears (not sure if this is dangerous or could harm any components)
Your floor mounted lever is 4wheel high and 4wheel low only or do you have 4H, 4L, N, & 2H?
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Mine is not full time. I've got the floor mounted lever to put it in 4wheel high 4wheel low. I never use the 4wheel drive. I believe I've got 3.73 gears.
My options are:
1) keep it as is (high revs on the freeway)
2) paying to have front and rear gears changed (expensive)
3) getting a 700r4 tranny (expensive)
4) removing the front driveshaft and changing the rear gears (not sure if this is dangerous or could harm any components)
Your floor mounted lever is 4wheel high and 4wheel low only or do you have 4H, 4L, N, & 2H?
It's got 4H, 4L, N, & 2H. I even jacked up the rear and put it gear to make sure the front driveshaft wasn't spinning. I'm not interested in improving my mpg, it's just geared seriously low and it's spinning the motor at too high an rpm to cruise even at 65. I might have to just bite the bullet and get a 700r4. I just got a quote of $2,500 for the trans and converter installed.
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Pretty sure you have all-time 4wd. I have it too on my 75. A transfer case shifter on the floor, and no locking hubs. The front is always spinning. Unless you convert to hubs then get the oiling kit for the transfer case then I don't suggest doing it. The transfer case if oiled by the front end spinning (tires, axle, drive shaft) and if it doesn't get enough oiling...then it is toast.
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you should do yourself a favor and learn to do the work yourself. it's not that hard and you can save a LOT of money. just by buying the new transmission and TC (vs. rebuilding the tranny yourself, that gets hard and you'd need a 700R4 core) from a place like www.bowtieoverdrives.com (http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com) would only run you about $1,500-1,800 or so...that's almost $1,000 saved. but i will say that $2,500 isn't a bad price to have a new 700R4/TC retrofitted into a truck that never had one...
no, if he has 2Hi at all, it is a PART-TIME t-case. full-time was available but it wasn't the only option in '75. he got lucky and doesn't have that crap.
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That seems awfully high to me..a 700r4 is about as easy to rebuild as a th350 (from watching somone do the r4 and having done a couple 350s myself), I'd go buy a $100 blown 700r4 from a junk yard and do it yourself.
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Pretty sure you have all-time 4wd. I have it too on my 75. A transfer case shifter on the floor, and no locking hubs. The front is always spinning. Unless you convert to hubs then get the oiling kit for the transfer case then I don't suggest doing it. The transfer case if oiled by the front end spinning (tires, axle, drive shaft) and if it doesn't get enough oiling...then it is toast.
When you have 4H, 4L, N, & 2H it is a part time transfer case. You can take it in and out of 4 wheel drive when you want. A full time transfer case is when you lonely have 4H & 4L.
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Brought the truck in today to have a 3.08 posi installed. They'll be taking out the front driveshaft for me.
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When you have 4H, 4L, N, & 2H it is a part time transfer case. You can take it in and out of 4 wheel drive when you want. A full time transfer case is when you lonely have 4H & 4L.
What are you talking about? A NP203 is a full-time transfer case. I have 4H, 4L, N, & 2H and mine is a NP203. Please explain?
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When you have 4H, 4L, N, & 2H it is a part time transfer case. You can take it in and out of 4 wheel drive when you want. A full time transfer case is when you lonely have 4H & 4L.
What are you talking about? A NP203 is a full-time transfer case. I have 4H, 4L, N, & 2H and mine is a NP203. Please explain?
When you put the lever into 2H your rear tires only turn. Then you put the lever into 4L and all four wheels will turn. But a full-time t-case is when all four wheels turn all the time. The only option you have is 4H or 4L. No N or 2H.
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When you have 4H, 4L, N, & 2H it is a part time transfer case. You can take it in and out of 4 wheel drive when you want. A full time transfer case is when you lonely have 4H & 4L.
What are you talking about? A NP203 is a full-time transfer case. I have 4H, 4L, N, & 2H and mine is a NP203. Please explain?
When you put the lever into 2H your rear tires only turn. Then you put the lever into 4L and all four wheels will turn. But a full-time t-case is when all four wheels turn all the time. The only option you have is 4H or 4L. No N or 2H.
No, the front tires spin too. Seriously. The only way for a NP203 to get lubricated correctly is to have ALL of the tires spinning. Dude, go look up if a NP203 is a part-time or a full-time transfer case. It will say full-time. heck, here's an article...notice it says full-time. http://chevy.off-road.com/chevy/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=199953 (http://chevy.off-road.com/chevy/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=199953)
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(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x285/Trevor2500/IMG_1845.jpg)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x285/Trevor2500/IMG_1846.jpg)
That is my truck. What do you think now?
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When you have 4H, 4L, N, & 2H it is a part time transfer case. You can take it in and out of 4 wheel drive when you want. A full time transfer case is when you lonely have 4H & 4L.
What are you talking about? A NP203 is a full-time transfer case. I have 4H, 4L, N, & 2H and mine is a NP203. Please explain?
sorry, i have to correct here...you DON'T have 2hi. your t-case DOESN'T have a 2wd setting. the ONLY way you can get a 2wd setting in an NP203 is to install a part-time conversion kit. so i am agreeing with you but also correcting an error you made. to end all arguement, THE NP203 IS A FULL-TIME TRANSFER CASE. IF YOUR FACTORY FLOOR SHIFTER HAS A 2HI SETTING YOU DO NOT HAVE A NP203, YOU EITHER HAVE A NP205 OR AN NP208, WHICH ARE PART-TIME CASES
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Yeah, I know. My transfer case is a FULL-TIME 4wd. That is all that I am saying. I thought the guy said he had a np203...that is why I said all of the things.
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He clearly stated that he has 4L, N, 2HI, and 4HI, which you do not have. You Have LLoc, H, N, L, HiLoc. There's a difference. Everyone here knows the NP203 is full-time, that's not what is being argued. He has a part-time transfer case. He wasn't saying that the NP203 isn't full-time, he knows that it is. He's saying that he doesn't have an NP203.
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well said. it was simply a misunderstanding...they happen...
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*** Here's the interesting part. I went to pick up the truck today after the 3.08 gears had been installed. Started the truck and put it in reverse to back out and the truck went nowhere. I never really looked before but it turns out next to my 4x4 shift lever mine says, LOW LOCK, LOW, NEUTRAL, HIGH, HIGH LOCK. After telling me I had a FULL TIME transfer case, the installers then tried to pull the level into high lock but it wouldn't go. After climbing under and using a bar to move the lock lever on the transfer case itself, they got it into high lock and I was able to drive home with the front drive shaft in the bed. Seems to cruise much easier now. Hope that having it in high lock won't hurt it.
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well, your shift lever is worn out. in High, i'm willing to bet money it won't move. because you DO have a full-time case. meaning, the case works as a differential (or a viscous coupler, pronounced visk-us, not vish-us), and as the open differential it is, it will deliver the most power to the path of least resistance (this allows you to turn corners and still go). meaning, with your front driveline gone, it has NO resistance to turn that yoke, so 100% of your power will go to that yoke, which has nothing connected to it. so in high, your truck shouldn't move. but in lock, it is LOCKING the front and rear yokes together, and doing a 50-50 split of power, so you are spinning both yokes at the same speed, no matter what the load. this way you can still move with no front driveline.
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So, was I right? You had a full-time transfer case...the NP203
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No you were wrong because you thought he had a full time when he stated that he had 4L, N, 2H, 4H, but he gave the wrong information so it turns out he had a NP203. Just dumb-luck.
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Not really. Since I do have a 75 and a NP203...it was very likely he had a np203 since he ALSO had a 75 too...not luck...I just knew what I was talking about. I didn't think the poster really knew what his transfer case was since he obviously doesn't use it. But obviously it was pure luck...and I don't know anything. I must have an a4ld behind my 360 chevy with an np208 t-case, a 9 inch front axle with a dana 44 rear. :o
No you were wrong because you thought he had a full time when he stated that he had 4L, N, 2H, 4H, but he gave the wrong information so it turns out he had a NP203
No, I knew he had a full-time. Wasn't my fault he forgot or never used his 4wd.
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Sorry for the error on my part. I do appreciate all the input and hope I didn't start WWIII.
Anyway.
Now that there's no driveshaft connected to the front, I'm thinking of getting this front hub conversion:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MMK%2D502&N=700+4294908171+4294908163+4294925067+4294843457+115&autoview=sku
1) What's involved in putting this on?
2) Will I be able to feel the difference due to less resistance?
3) Is my transfer case ok driving around all the time locked?
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That's alright. I am rarely right and when I am I have to take advantage of it ;D
Sorry, I can't answer your questions.
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Not really. Since I do have a 75 and a NP203...it was very likely he had a np203 since he ALSO had a 75 too...not luck...I just knew what I was talking about. I didn't think the poster really knew what his transfer case was since he obviously doesn't use it. But obviously it was pure luck...and I don't know anything. I must have an a4ld behind my 360 chevy with an np208 t-case, a 9 inch front axle with a dana 44 rear. :o
No you were wrong because you thought he had a full time when he stated that he had 4L, N, 2H, 4H, but he gave the wrong information so it turns out he had a NP203
No, I knew he had a full-time. Wasn't my fault he forgot or never used his 4wd.
i realize you were trying to be funny and make up parts that don't exist, but the NP208 t-case does exist, it came in the '83-'87 trucks...
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Sorry for the error on my part. I do appreciate all the input and hope I didn't start WWIII.
Anyway.
Now that there's no driveshaft connected to the front, I'm thinking of getting this front hub conversion:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MMK%2D502&N=700+4294908171+4294908163+4294925067+4294843457+115&autoview=sku
1) What's involved in putting this on?
2) Will I be able to feel the difference due to less resistance?
3) Is my transfer case ok driving around all the time locked?
ok, i'll field these questions. as for whats involved in putting them on, Milemarker has pretty detailed instructions but here's an article talking about what's involved in doing the WHOLE part-time conversion, to include the hubs...http://coloradok5.com/milemarkerpt.shtml (http://coloradok5.com/milemarkerpt.shtml)
as to your second question, yea, you might feel some less resistance after you install the hubs, because there will be less rotating mass. you will only have your wheels rolling on the spindles, versus your axleshafts/ring/pinion spinning.
yea, your t-case should be fine driving around in Loc mode all the time. normally i'd give a resounding heck NO, but because you have the driveshaft dropped you are fine because you are putting no stress on the diff...
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Nice article. I'll probably drive around as is for now. Later, when I save a little more money, I'll have 3.08 gears in the front and have the driveshaft put back in.
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Not really. Since I do have a 75 and a NP203...it was very likely he had a np203 since he ALSO had a 75 too...not luck...I just knew what I was talking about. I didn't think the poster really knew what his transfer case was since he obviously doesn't use it. But obviously it was pure luck...and I don't know anything. I must have an a4ld behind my 360 chevy with an np208 t-case, a 9 inch front axle with a dana 44 rear. :o
No you were wrong because you thought he had a full time when he stated that he had 4L, N, 2H, 4H, but he gave the wrong information so it turns out he had a NP203
No, I knew he had a full-time. Wasn't my fault he forgot or never used his 4wd.
i realize you were trying to be funny and make up parts that don't exist, but the NP208 t-case does exist, it came in the '83-'87 trucks...
All of those parts exist. Just not in the right place. a4ld - Crappy ford ranger early auto tranny 360 - actually a mopar or dodge np208 - a transfer case 9 inch - actually a rear axle not a front dana 44 - actually a front not a rear.
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No, I knew he had a full-time. Wasn't my fault he forgot or never used his 4wd.
Just because it is a 75 doesn't mean it had an NP203. You KNEW he had full time? What are you psychic? Because with the information he gave clearly gave the impression a part-time was present. Don't try to act all cool because you were wrong with the information that was presented. There's no need to bash the poster either. qboy, next time just be sure of the information posted so that good advice can be given. As far as a part-time kit goes, that kit looks just fine. Warn also makes one it's just a personal preference. These aren't extremely hard to put on, but require a few special tools, snap ring pliers, axle nut socket, so on. Like said, it should feel like less resistance, and will prolong the life of the front end. Just make sure to lock in the hubs and drive in 4 wheel drive every 100 or so miles to keep it all lubed up. (AFTER YOU CHANGE THE FRONT DIFFERENTIAL TO 3.08s)
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Dana 44s were used in the rears of Jeeps, they're not just front axles.
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No, I knew he had a full-time. Wasn't my fault he forgot or never used his 4wd.
Just because it is a 75 doesn't mean it had an NP203. You KNEW he had full time? What are you psychic? Because with the information he gave clearly gave the impression a part-time was present. Don't try to act all cool because you were wrong with the information that was presented. There's no need to bash the poster either. qboy, next time just be sure of the information posted so that good advice can be given. As far as a part-time kit goes, that kit looks just fine. Warn also makes one it's just a personal preference. These aren't extremely hard to put on, but require a few special tools, snap ring pliers, axle nut socket, so on. Like said, it should feel like less resistance, and will prolong the life of the front end. Just make sure to lock in the hubs and drive in 4 wheel drive every 100 or so miles to keep it all lubed up. (AFTER YOU CHANGE THE FRONT DIFFERENTIAL TO 3.08s)
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Dana 44s were used in the rears of Jeeps, they're not just front axles.
How the Heck was I bashing him? Sounds like you have some anger issues. Don't know why you keep prolonging this. Look, we were both wrong. I admit it. I could care less about arguing over the internet with someone I don't know or don't care about. Arguing is what makes forums crappy. I'm done. Are you?
I don't care about Jeeps.
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I accept your apology for being wrong and gloating. As far as this post goes, qboy, an important point I forgot to mention about a part-time conversion. After you swap the front end over to 3.08 and install locking-hubs, you will notice an extreme improvement in manueverability whilst turning sharply. No more wheel-hop as with the full-time 4 wheel drive. Then 4 wheel drive is 2 simple twists away. It's always better to have 4 wheel drive and not need it then to need 4 wheel drive and not have it.
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I have an interesting question. I have used my 4wd before...but how do you shift into 4 wheel drive? I usually put my truck into neutral. Shut it off. Move my transfer case lever into 4h or 4l and then move my selector in park and start it again...then I am in 4wd. My brother also does this to his 94 toyota...and have seen my friend with a 95 toyota jam it into 4wd while moving. Is that how I am supposed to do it?
Sorry for thread jacking...but I just thought of it. And, I don't use 4wd much...since I don't drive it much.
Thanks
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I have an interesting question. I have used my 4wd before...but how do you shift into 4 wheel drive? I usually put my truck into neutral. Shut it off. Move my transfer case lever into 4h or 4l and then move my selector in park and start it again...then I am in 4wd. My brother also does this to his 94 toyota...and have seen my friend with a 95 toyota jam it into 4wd while moving. Is that how I am supposed to do it?
Sorry for thread jacking...but I just thought of it. And, I don't use 4wd much...since I don't drive it much.
Thanks
I think that it is just old and it is alittle warn out. My dad had 72 ford bronco and then he would put the lever into 4L he would had to hold it there then pot the throttle while in gear and the lever would pot into place. Over a period of time when he would get into a mud hole or try to climb a hill the 4L would pop out of gear. Instead of doing the right thing he just tie it to the dash. Know my brother also a 72 ford bronco and his shifted like a brand new truck. It would go into gear no matter what. He did not need a specail code to get it into gear.
As for the earlier thread I apologize we were both wright just had the wrong info..
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I have an interesting question. I have used my 4wd before...but how do you shift into 4 wheel drive? I usually put my truck into neutral. Shut it off. Move my transfer case lever into 4h or 4l and then move my selector in park and start it again...then I am in 4wd. My brother also does this to his 94 toyota...and have seen my friend with a 95 toyota jam it into 4wd while moving. Is that how I am supposed to do it?
Sorry for thread jacking...but I just thought of it. And, I don't use 4wd much...since I don't drive it much.
Thanks
ok, i'm gonna get a little "critical" here...everytime you start that truck and put it in gear, you are using 4wd...it is full-time 4wd. you aren't ever going from "2hi" to 4wd. now, with that being said, here's my personal experience as a mechanic and as someone who's owned a '75 K10 with F-T 4x4.
first, let me say, YOU NEVER HAVE TO SHUT THE TRUCK OFF! you start out in H (there's no 4 before it because it's all 4x4), which is your normal range. when you need a LITTLE extra traction, you can throw it into H Loc, which will lock the center differential and make the t-case give a 50-50 power split, no matter what. you can shift from H to H Loc at ANY speed. i've done it before at over 75 mph...just to prove i could. now, when you need to tow the truck, you can put it in N. you only shift into N when the truck transmission is in N. you also want to have your foot firmly on the brakes because even putting the transmission into P will NOT hold the truck, as the t-case is in N
when things get really bad, and you need more gear reduction, you can throw it into L Loc. this shift can only be done with the transmission in N. you don't have to shut off the truck to do this.
so as a recap, you never have to shut your truck off, neither does your brother. the only time you need to put it in neutral is to go into N or L Loc. same with your brother's Toyota. 2hi to 4hi can be done at any speed below 45-50, only need to go into N to put the t-case into N or to use 4Lo. shutting it off does nothing, because when your tranny is in neutral, the engine is disconnected from the rest of the transmission and the t-case.
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Alright. Thanks. I know my transfer case is always full-time...but it doesn't give power to the front wheels. Yes and no...you can look at it differently. I look at it as if it is always in 2wd and the everything in the front spins.
I am glad I never have to shut the truck off. But I think I will always put my truck in neutral before shifting from 2 or how everybody else calls it 4 to 4hi. It does get annoying shutting it off. We don't really need 4wd much with his truck...but I occasionally use it with mine. Thanks for the help.
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What I'm trying to find out now is what involved in putting on this hub kt?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MMK%2D502&N=700+4294908171+4294908163+4294925067+4294843457+115&autoview=sku
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Alright. Thanks. I know my transfer case is always full-time...but it doesn't give power to the front wheels. Yes and no...you can look at it differently. I look at it as if it is always in 2wd and the everything in the front spins.
I am glad I never have to shut the truck off. But I think I will always put my truck in neutral before shifting from 2 or how everybody else calls it 4 to 4hi. It does get annoying shutting it off. We don't really need 4wd much with his truck...but I occasionally use it with mine. Thanks for the help.
no, no, no, no...put your truck on jackstands, put it in gear. all 4 wheels will turn. it is always in 4wd. forget about 2wd. you don't have it. your full-time t-case is basically a 3rd differential in your truck. it just gives power to the path of least resistance when in H range and L range out of Lock mode. it IS 4wd. if your front driveshaft is spinning, and you aren't getting "power" at your front axle, then you have a problem in your front axle.
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Oh, that makes sense. I now get it. When I move my lever into 4l then my t-case acts like a locker right?
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yea, kinda. How it works is that there is a differential inside the transfer case that works just like your axles. It gives equal power to the front and the back untill there is a speed difference between the two, as in turning. (the front would turn faster than the rear..)
So, it lets the front turn faster, to avoid wheel hopping and binding.
The problem with that, is that if you get in the mud, or ice, if one axle loses traction, that is the axle that will get all the power, and you'd just sit there. That's why there is the LOCK position.
When you shift it into a LOCK position, you cancel that differential action, and the front and rear are locked together. Both axles gets the same power, no matter what. Turn on dry pavement, the driveline is going to bind.
clear as mud? Merry Christmas man