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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => 73-87 Chevy & GMC Trucks => Topic started by: team39763 on January 28, 2008, 10:19:39 am
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I'm relocating the battery to the bed, but I have a few questions about the cables/grounds. Do I still need to connect the battery ground cable to the engine block? Can I run my positive cable within 3 inches of my fuel line(metal)? What gauge of wire is acceptable? I'm planning to just use whatever I find at O'Reilly and make a hold-down. Do I need a box?...I'm sure I can make one myself.
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Your battery needs to be secured in a vibration free box. What type of battery are you using? You can run the cabling near anything that isn't moving or a heat source just make sure you use insulated clamps to secure it to the frame. Also run a ground wire from the engine block to the frame and from the frame to the body. You can bolt your negative to the frame however you will need to add some auxiliary ground straps. If you have more than .3v drop on the negative side of the circuit you will have to run the cable back up to the engine block. Ideally that is best anyway.
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I have an optima red top.
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Why the vibration free box? Can I away with just the cheap plastic boxes from summit or autozone? Could I bolt it down good and use rubber to dampen some of the vibrations. Also, should I bolt it further back like by the wheel tubs or right behind the cab?
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Also, should I bolt it further back like by the wheel tubs or right behind the cab?
YOU can mount the battery anywhere you may want it or where-ever it's more easily axcesible to you--- matter of taste. for the wiring keep the same as the original gauge wire as original under the hood.
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If you are running a good battery like the optima, vibration won't hurt it nearly as much however especially in the back of a pick up bouncing around with the suspension is very bad for the battery especially a conventional battery. Just make sure it's mounted securely. Here's what Optima recommends for their battery installation:
Ensure that the battery is properly secured in the vehicle or equipment to prevent movement and vibration. Do not over tighten the hold down bracket as this can damage the plastic case.
Connect high amperage accessories such as a winch to the top terminals only. Do NOT use the side terminals.
Replace any cables and connectors that have corrosion, rust, or other damage.
Do not install batteries in a non-ventilated or sealed compartment.
Do not lift or handle the batteries by the terminals.
Do not over tighten terminal bolts, the following values are recommended: SAE automotive terminal: 6-8 nm. Side terminal (3/8" nut): 8 nm.Threaded stud terminal:14-20 nm.
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Team member, Are you asking for opinions or as per NHRA/IHRA sanction rules? If you are referring to the rules. No you do not need a box. The battery must be held firmly in place by at least (2) 3/8 bolts/studs, no open J hooks. If the battery is relocated, the electrical system must include a cut-off switch clearly marked on-off on the back of the vehicle. I realize the rules have to be generalized, but the switch seems like nonsense on our trucks to me. If something goes wrong having the battery in/under the bed, out in the open is far easier to get to & safer than under the hood. Also you can run a new Saturn, ect. with the battery in the trunk without a switch because it was not relocated. Go figure. I'm on the fence if it is really worth moving if you look at it this way. Batteries are getting lighter, 12-14' of 00 or 01 cable is heavy, add the switch & In my opinion, you should use a Ford type solenoid so the big cable is only live while cranking, 10 gauge charging wire from the alt., several good quality cable ends & you know whatever you make for a hold down/tray is likely going to weigh more than the factory ones, yes you move some weight from the front to the back, but is it really worth it? Charging is easier in the back if your playing that game. Good Luck with the project, Lorne
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My whole reason for relocating the battery was to lighten up the nose of the truck. I was wanting to know about the box from both NHRA/IHRA standpoint and in general. You made some good points Lorne. I think I'm gonna weigh everything and see what it'll come out to. These optima batteries are heavy, I hate moving mine. I think if I do relocate it, I'll put it as far back as I can.
Thanks for that info Vile. I don't think vibration will be too much of a problem since the truck won't be driven very much. Longest trip will be 1/4mile or to the gas station 1/2mile away.
I think if I do relocate it, I'll put it as far back as I can.
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i moved mine to the very rear pass side behind wheel well, plastic rv box , got welding cable 00 i think, ground to frame , then frame to motor. long pos from batery to front straped to frame. works real good, the solinoid idea is a good one i may now change mine, might save a fire.i also removed fuel tanks and put a plastic one in the bed on the oposite side , she hooks hard now
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I relocated mine to the bed right behind the cab with a NHRA approve Moroso battery box...I ran 1/0 cable for the positive and some big welding cable for the ground, from the battery to frame, then from there to the passenger head, then jumpered to drivers head. I wanted to make sure I had a clean ground path for spark and my Billet HEI.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/rsbad454/HPIM0400.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/rsbad454/HPIM0396.jpg)
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Whats the point of this mod??? Seen it done alot...Got no clue on why tho
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it's called move a little weight from the front to the rear...... ;) I put my coolant recovery tank in the area where the battery use to be anyways.
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Team, I'm not saying you shouldn't move it, In fact I may very well move mine someday. I agree with you, If your going to move it, put it as far back as possible. I also have a Optima Red Top, I did some measuring a while back, it looked like it would fit under the bed nicely, on it's side, behind the spring hanger. I know they advertise it is ok to mount them anyway, anybody have personal experience with doing this? I dropped the body (bedsides) on my truck which will help hide it. I'm not sure if you would see it hanging out from the side on a regular truck or not. I personally don't like "things in the bed". I guess my reason for procrastinating on it is: Your going to be adding about 35-40lbs. of total weight to the truck (mostly in the back,which is good) but there is additional connections,parts to fail,length of wire to rub,ect. Is it worth it? We all want to get the most out of our vehicle if we're going to the track, but in bracket racing it means nothing. It probably is if you mount it behind the axle. 40 or so lbs. of battery off of in front of the front wheels & aprox. 70+ moved to mostly behind the axle to help traction. 70lbs of ballast on some vehicles can make all the difference in the world, to others not so much. Can you run it a couple times & then move it to verify the worth? Talk to you later, Lorne
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I plan on moving mine just to clean up the engine bay a little bit, plus I no longer have inner fender wells.
Good luck on your project.
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Yeah, I know what you mean Lorne. I'm weighing the pros and cons right now. I'm not really into bracket racing yet, I'm just trying to get a respectable time out of this truck. Is there a such thing as a lightweight battery? Like you said, it may not even be worth it to get into all that. I'll run it like it is and see if I still need to bother with relocation.
I don't have inner fenders either. I like being able to slide in and out through there to get stuff done....especially changing sparkplugs and tightening header bolts.
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Build a bigger motor or go Turbo......only way you will go faster.
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I circle track race and we add lead in ideal spots to balance the car. a source of lead..... you guessed it the battery. We even put the car on electronic scale pads to get the front to rear weight close to even and as much left side percentage as the rules allow. My red top Optima is right behind my drivers seat and about 4 inches from the track surface. Its secured in a tray welded to the frame rail. A balanced round track car is fast, a drag car that transfers weight is fast.
U can run a 2 Ga. or Single OT cable thru metal EMT conduit then bend it like brakeline to follow the frame rails. secure it with the clamps they make for EMT and it will be protected and not droop. The cable insulation will protect the cable from the conduit and the smooth inside of the conduit will craddle the cable ind not rub into it. ( debir the ends and flute them out) I won't knock the ford starter solenoid idea but I leave mine live and hook a 8 or even 6 ga charge wire from the alt. to the starter batt. cable term. Better fuse link it at the starter connection. A 10 or 12 ga link depending on charge wire size. Hook a 2ga neg from the batt. directly to the frame as short as possible, then a 2ga. from the frame to engine as short as possible. Go directly to the block, not a bracket or anything. Add a 10 ga ground from the frame to the bed, a 10ga ground from the frame to the cab floor, another to the core support and I'd even run 1 from the back of the block to the firewall like the factory does.
This alone may not turn it into a 10 second truck but it will be an improvement, and make it look like you really mean business at the track!!!
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Build a bigger motor or go Turbo......only way you will go faster.
I wish I could build a bigger motor, but I'm stuck with this one for now. I'm trying to talk my wife into buying me a 6-71 supercharger to throw on top of it for my birthday. BDS makes a 6-71 and 8-71 blower kit for the LS1. I may just go ahead and spray it. I want to hit a high 11's on motor and then spray my way down to the 10's. My nitrous kit is setup for a 175shot.
That's a pretty good idea Autorepr.
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Get the EFI manifold for it and you can put a turbo on there, You can use Megasquirt ECU to controll it...
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I feel like I am totally missing the point of moving the weight on a PICKUP TRUCK!!!
You would have to do SOOOOOOOO much to these trucks to get them to handle really well that I fail to see the point.
Can someone actually convince me WHY this would REALLY be worth the time and effort???? ???
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bigger motor is not the answer ,getting truck to hook first is. moving weight to the rear is a good start to get tracktion.these trucks with any power at all will not get traction
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For a drag truck (which is what team is going for), moving weight to the back will improve traction off the line for two reasons..one, the raw weight put over the back tires, and two, with the front end lightened, upon initial launch, the weight balance SHOULD shift from front to back, aiding in traction. Moving the weight in this case has nothing at all to do with improving handling, its solely to improve traction off the line, in somthing that already runs a locked/spooled rear end with some kind of traction aid (caltracs, 4 link).
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I guess I can see it for a drag truck. ::)
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I'm just trying to have a little edge over those trucks with big blocks or the ones with the high dollar motors. I'm pretty sure I can't smoke them on the top end with raw horsepower, so I figure I'll try to get my truck to take off as best I can and make them play catch-up.
This truck is a low budget drag project.
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i am biulding the same thing rite now , and let me tell you my truck with a 406 ci motor would not get any traction. i moved battery and feul cell to back and it made one heck of a difference. now it needs caltracs bars to prevent axel wrap. before the mods it would lite the tires up and barly move
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I hope you put a posi in it before you bother with traction bars.
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I'm hip to the gettin all that you can with spending as little as possible!!! My PRO 4 class now allows 2500 cc 4 cylinder engines. I got alot tied up in my 2300, which was as big as you were allowed 2 seasons ago and I just can't foot the bill for a new engine. I keep tweekin on her and gettin a little more all the time. If I can roll thru the corner faster I need less horsepower to get back up to speed on the straights. (and less brakes to wo it down) In bracket racing reaction time is 3/4s of the race. If you get off the line right on the light you got it in the bag. I know, I Wish it were that simple too!!!!! If you sit there spinning your wheels your just putin on a show.
KEEP TWEEKIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I put mine in the bed and used the cheap little plastic box from the parts store. It's not an optima but it's the NAPA drycell, basically the same just not the big name.
I've seen people mount the batteries on their sides under the bed on minitrucks before, i dont see why you shouldn't be able to since the company says they can be mounted anywhere...
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I feel like I am totally missing the point of moving the weight on a PICKUP TRUCK!!!
You would have to do SOOOOOOOO much to these trucks to get them to handle really well that I fail to see the point.
Can someone actually convince me WHY this would REALLY be worth the time and effort???? ???
It is easier to make a camero or vette handle, but it takes skill and determination to make these run on rails.It is possible, and is awesome to see when it is done. I have seen several of these trucks in the 9s and 10s. The greatest thing is spanking Junior in his daddy's vette, and not having to worry where you park it at the local Sonicdrive-in. It takes determination and thinking outside the box. Team39763, hang in there, experiment, and think outside the box.Some of the best ideas come from not doing the norm.Like Hogwild said, traction is going to be your problem. Also, do some figuring on your axle gearing. You want your truck in high gear, just below redline as you cross the line at the big end.This will ensure you are geared as best as possible for what you are doing. It may not street drive well, but is usually tolerable, unless you drive on the highway. Get good race tires. Hooking up requires quality components, so don't skimpout on tires.Don't overlook aerodynamics,get it down as low as possible,pull in mirrors, tailgate dropped ( don't remove it, you need the weight for traction. Are the doors gutted( window rfegulators, glass etc. ) this is more weight, but use plexiglass for the sides,as the wind drag of an open cab is worse than having the weight there.Keep it up, I expect to here a report on being in the 10s soon.
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The tailgate on a shortbed won't (atleast shouldn't) have an impact on the aerodynamics unless you chop the top...Air doesn't actually blow down into the bed with a stock height cab, the cab deflects the air and it doesn't drop back down until about a foot past the tailgate. A longbed might see some benefit though. Have somone lay down in the bed holding a plastic wal-mart sack, tailgate down, on a calm day. Accelerate to about 45mph, then have them let go of the sack below the height of the bedrails, right around the wheel wells..The sack will not blow out of the bed, it will blow around up to the height of the cab and all over the bed, until it gets out on the tailgate itself, OR over the cab(which wont happen over 40 mph on a completely calm day), then it will blow away. I watched this happen in my own truck..I watched a small plastic sack blow around my bed with the tailgate down for the better part of 35 miles at highway speed..When I dropped down to about 25-30 mph, it finally blew up over the cab height and I drove out from under it.
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If u wear watching the sack..who was watching the road for them 35 miles? lol
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I moved my battery to the frame, under the bed. It is mounted with a stainless steel CCP drop down battery box. I mainly did mine for looks...I hate cluttered engine bays. When you open the hood on my 73, all you see is engine. No battery, wiring, high mount accessory brackets, etc..
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...It wasn't like I was staring in the mirror..I always check my mirrors every minute or two, more often if theres somthing in the bed that I expect will blow or fall out..And at the time, I still had a rearview mirror. I got tired of it falling off no matter what I used to hold it on, so its sitting under my seat now.
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I moved my battery to the frame, under the bed. It is mounted with a stainless steel CCP drop down battery box. I mainly did mine for looks...I hate cluttered engine bays. When you open the hood on my 73, all you see is engine. No battery, wiring, high mount accessory brackets, etc..
Would you mind posting a picture of your engine bay?
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I don't have much of an engine bay at the moment, as my inner fenders are not in and there are still a few things to tie up. Regardless, here are a few pics.
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Battery box and some more misc pics.
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Moving the battery aint all you did for looks!!!!!!!!!
And may I say it looks DANG F-I-N-E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ya no...At first i thought it was kinda stupid....But i must say... your truck has made me a believer....That looks awsome!
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Jeff, That's one to be proud of! Nice work! Show off some more as you go, no one will mind & most likely get new ideas. Lorne
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NIce work Jeff!! ;)
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Yep, that looks good. I wish my engine bay was that clean and smooth.
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What's up guys. I figured I'd bring this one back up for an update. I decided to hold off on relocating the battery until a little later. Right now I'm doing bigger things to drop weight. My wife and I are making Lexan windows. We did the passenger side today, we'll do the windshield and the driver side in a week or so. It looks pretty good, kinda like that 1 piece window kit that CaptKaos sells. The door feels really light now that it's completely gutted. I'm also switching to an aluminum radiator. We considered making our own fiberglass hood(just for raceday), but it's too much work for now....we'll try it later though. I'm looking for some fiberglass fenders too. I saw some on ebay a few years ago, but can't find any now. I'm still having problems with the carb, but I'm hoping to get some help with it soon. But I will be relocating the battery soon.
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US Body Source has a complete fiberglass front end.
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That's a pretty nice kit they got there, but it's a bit exspensive for this project. I'd like to get one of those fiberglass blazer bodies for a blazer project that I had planned.