73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Members Rides => Topic started by: KSU Wildcat on March 17, 2008, 10:19:37 pm
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Hey guys First time posting but have been reading on here awhile. The jewell you are looking at is the 83 K20 I bought the other day with plans of fixing up. This will be the first rebuild I am attempting so its going to take me awhile. I have a couple questions and I need some expert opinions. The first question is how far should I go? I was thinking about going all the way to the frame and getting it bead blasted. I know it will lengthen my rebuild time but I think it may be worth it. Do you guys bother with that at all? I will try and include a picture of the underbelly and you guys can voice your thoughts. Next thing, I have what I believe to be a stock 350. My first plan was to pull it and rebuild it, also a first (you guys scared yet?) I was thinking about making it a stroker motor but I am not sure of the pros and cons of that. Once complete I plan on using it strictly as a "play" truck (drive it in the snow and mud). I understand the stroker has alot of low end torque but what do I lose? Once again I understand that I have a long road ahead but I am looking forward to it. So now I need your guy's input. One more quick question when the motor is out I plan on going to back and forth from body work to engine build. What do you guys initially sand the body with to get the paint, rust off. I was thinking 220 with a random orbiting sander, am I on the right track? Thanks
Justin
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looks like shes had a tough life...good to see you are ambitious enough to bring her back
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Are you planning for a long term project? How much do you have bugeted? I frame off will ad up quickly. bigblock73 and I can testify to that. You won't be putting old stuff back on it if you do take it down...
I would probably take it down to the frame based on how it looks. I would rebuild the motor stock if it was the first time, then get another to build up more. With a stroker, you make alot of torque, what you loose is High rpm power, but with a play truck in the mud you don't need high horsepower....
Before you start sanding, how does the body look in general?
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Honestly the way that paint looks, you would be better off Media Blasting the body as well.... If you are set on sanding it by hand(again will wind up stripping all the red off, if not the original finish under it!), I would recommend something along the lines of 80 grit to cut down on time... It will also help cut down the possiblity of warping the panels, so long as you moving around.... Be sure to sand in a Criss-Cross/X-Pattern towards the front or towards the back.... Start from the bottom and work up, or vise versus, but never an up an up and down motion... Never work in a Circular Pattern when sanding, that is fine only when waxing.. Sure it can be easy to hide when waxing, but using as a sanding pattern, it will be highly visible in the new finish...
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I don't see ugliness in that man i see potential, remember Rome wasn't built in a day n neither was a great looking truck, i cant wait to see you tear into that thing and start making it look like a nice looking rig.
thanks
pat
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I agree with captkaos. There's no replacement for displacement. I was also thinking about a 383 stroker. With the sheer size of my truck the 355 just doesn't do it. I have an '85 3/4t so I know what you're feeling. The 14 bolt axle kills you on weight. But just a question. What Gears do you have? And what is your transfer case ratio? Also what tranny?
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Thank you guys for all the replys. I understand taking everything off the frame is going to be time consuming and I have no problem with that. I don't have a time frame that I have to meet. The problem is I am very meticulous on the things I do. I know if I don't media blast the frame, I am going to see all the time and think "dang that looks like crap". Where do you take a frame to get this done? What do I need to look under in the phone book? I already have the bed off, the front clip is comming off and being replace with a better looking one. The only part I am going to keep is the cab. If I do decide take the cab off, how much does it weigh? I don't have access to a hoist or anything like that. Is it something a couple guys can pick up? I have new poly body mount bushing comming so the cab has to be broke lose anyway.
As far as the body work goes...So the pneumatic sander is not a good idea? Hand sanding with a block is the way to go. Am I correct? I was reading that if the area is OK and doesn't require a repair there is no need to take it down to the metal. Are you just trying to get it smooth? I think the original color was white and them they painted over it with red. With two layers of paint I should be able to get it fairly smooth.
I probably agree with building the motor up stock for now. Do you guys think a stock 350 will have any problems moving this size truck with 35's (After the suspension lift)? I don't want a dog but I don't need to run 12's either.
The truck has a 3 speed manual (L,1,2,3) with what I think to be a 206 transfer case but don't quote me on that. I am not sure of any gear ratios yet.
Once again guys thanks for the replies and thanks for the patience. I got alot to learn but I can't wait.
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Welcome to the board. Before you take anything off of the truck I would have the frame checked. The gap on the bed doesn't look to be right, wide at the bottom and narrow at the top.
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Allof the cab mounts are completely gone. I think this is why the cab is sagging. I eye-balled the frame and looked pretty good.
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you should have a Th400 transmission and a NP208 t-case. looks like a truck with a LOT of potential. i wish you the best of luck with it. a 350 with a few goodies added will be more than enough for that truck if you aren't trying to tow mobile homes or outrun Dale Jr. when i say a few goodies i mean basically an Edelbrock Performer pack with the intake, carb, cam and possibly heads if you wanna go that far. 383's are wonderful and you WILL NOT be disappointed if you go that route, but you don't HAVE to have it to move this truck with grace. 350's have been doing it for years.
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If you decide to take the frame to the bare with nothing attached i say look under sandblasting in your phonebook.But i say have it sandblasted and then powdercoat it as well.You`ll have a fresh start and can work from there.Seeing all these 3/4 ton 4wd 8 foot bed rigs is making me very antsy to buy a project. If your not in a rush on it i could also suggest a crate motor from like GM performance or summit or jegs.And just swap over all your accessories and your already there to a newer beginning.Using a orbital sander isnt bad at all just make sure you keep the surface flat and never turn it on its edge cauee eventually you`ll cause bullseyes in the paint and then you gotta featheredge it out more and its a PITA. Dependng on the amount of paint on the body i look at your options.1st are the panels rusted ot badly? 2nd is it worth fixing them or cheaper in the long run to replace them?And 3rd what are your intentions for this truck?Are you gonna make it a nice cruiser and a car show piece or just a daily driver/beater? To me if it was my truck and you say your meticuous with your work and projects i say start right from the ground and go from there , powdercoat anything and everything that you want done like bumper brackets, grille brackets,suspension parts, etc.Then get the entire drivetrain done and then get all that completed and put it aside and concentrate on the body.To remove the body i personally used a engine hoist and a 4x4 block of wood and jacked it up and slllllooooowwwwlllllllyyyyyy moved it away from the frame and did vice a versa to the new cab i installed.4 guys can lift it, to make it lighter remove the doors and the seat that`ll make it alot lighter to take off.but make sure you bag and label everything where it went and you`ll be thanking yourself afterwards you did that.
thanks
pat
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Welcome from New Hampshire first of all. Truck looks like the fire dept. used it pretty well. I am assuming that used to be a shield on the door?
As far as your frame it doesn't look to bad. Looks to be mostly surface rust. Not much scale? You say its going to be a driver, snow, & mud? You could get away with needle scaling it and painting it with Chassis saver, and an acrylic top coat. As far as body work goes I agree with determining if a panel is cheaper to replace than fix. Time is worth money. Being from Kansas I can't imagine the rust is a big thing. You shouldn't have to strip it to bare metal. If the white is in good shape under the red just sand the red off. Its a long process but you will need to use 100 or finer grit so as not to completely wreck the white underneath. A 6" DA works well for this. If you do decide to take it all off I like to use a combo of methods. On hoods / large ares I stick with a chemical stripper such as Air Craft Remover. Smaller sections or the cab I use a large grinder with variable speed control. I keep it around 1,800 RPMs. An 8" soft pad, and 8" 36 grit paper. As already stated you want to keep it moving, keep it flat, and with the 36 grit not a whole lot of pressure.
As far as the transmission you say L 1 2 3. Is it a standard? It sounds like you have an SM456 not a
TH 400. The transfer case should be a NP 208.
Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions, Harold.
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Yes the truck use to be part of the volunteer F.D. What is a 6" DA? Are you saying to use 36 grit sandpaper? Sorry for the dumb questions but I am very green to the body work part. That is the reason why I bought the truck is to teach myself (with the help of you guys) how to do it. So you are also saying to use a chemical stripper to remove the paint on large areas? Does that take it down to bare metal? My plans were to take the frame in and get it media blasted. Then I was going to shoot it with Chassis Saver. Do you think I need to put a top coat on it. What do you recommed? What I could really use is a link that I can read up and maybe some places to buy this stuff. I think I bought some of that aircraft remover at Wal-Mart. Is that the same stuff?
Yes the Tanny is a manual with L,1,2,3. I was told the transfercase was a 206. I got a pic of the transfercase if anybody wants to positively identify it. Thanks guys
The other picture is progress I've made.
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Looks like a NP208 to me.
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Yes the truck use to be part of the volunteer F.D. What is a 6" DA? Are you saying to use 36 grit sandpaper? Sorry for the dumb questions but I am very green to the body work part. That is the reason why I bought the truck is to teach myself (with the help of you guys) how to do it. So you are also saying to use a chemical stripper to remove the paint on large areas? Does that take it down to bare metal? My plans were to take the frame in and get it media blasted. Then I was going to shoot it with Chassis Saver. Do you think I need to put a top coat on it. What do you recommed? What I could really use is a link that I can read up and maybe some places to buy this stuff. I think I bought some of that aircraft remover at Wal-Mart. Is that the same stuff?
Yes the Tanny is a manual with L,1,2,3. I was told the transfercase was a 206. I got a pic of the transfercase if anybody wants to positively identify it. Thanks guys
The other picture is progress I've made.
Blazin is saying a 6 inch DA(Dual Action sander) 36 grit will take the paint off with ease but dont put alot of pressure to the panels because you can warp them with that coarse of grit.Let the sandpaper do the work not the person behind the sander.Chemical stripper will indeed take it down to bare metal as well.It may take several coats of stripper to take it off depending how much paint is on that panel.Here is a trick take some silver or gray duc tape and put it over the holes like the marker lights on the fenders or on the holes of the door handles and make sure there on good and apply the stripper(if you decide to use that) it will prevent any stripper going into the holes and eat the paint where the corner marker lights and other places you dont want it to go because it can be a royal PITA to sand and get clean.Eastwoods chassis saver is some good stuff, POR 15 is also some good stuff as well.You can apply it by gun or by brush.I say if you want better results go by spray gun.I am not sure if you can top coat it but if blazin says you can then i say topcoat it as well.You can never have to much protection but not enough then your work will be worthless.
thanks
pat
p.s. If you take it down to bare metal, use a metal prep that comes in containers specifically for bare metal.The contamints in the stripping solvents need to be completly removed or you`ll have a big problem once you come to priming, i seen it before if the surface itsnt completly cleaned the paint materials can lift and its a ugly situation.Once you do that shoot a self etching primer to protect the metal from any contamintsand rust.Then apply your primer.NEVER prime the bare metal panels with just primer, you need a good surface protection and primer is just 1/2 of it..
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I was saying IF I take it to bare metal I use several methods. Which one I use depends on the type of job, and or the panel I am working on. Kind of a judgment cal if you know what I mean. In your case if I would leave the white on if
(1) It is in good shape.
(2) If your building a driver, not a show truck.
Also the area of the country you are from I am willing to bet the sheet metal is probably in great shape rust wise.
As far as a DA yes Dual Action. Meaning the pad moves in two different directions. I do use 36 grit on a 6" DA once in a while but usually the coarsest grit I use on my 6' DA is 80 grit. I use 36 grit on my big grinder on an 8" pad to strip paint. Also on my mud eater with an 8" pad for cutting body filler down. Mud eater is almost the same as a DA but is an 8" pad, turns allot slower RPMs, and the circular motions are bigger in diameter. Wal Mart doesn't sell Air Craft Stripper around here. The only places I know to get it is an auto parts store with a paint counter.
POR 15 is a great product but double the price of Chassis Saver, and they are the same thing.
( POR stands for Paint Over Rust. )
It says on the cans you can go over tightly adhered rust, or sand blasted metal. I have gone over rust hundreds of times and never had it come through. Yes you can top coat them but it has to be done before they cure, or you have to use their special etching primers to get a top coat to stick. Not topcoating them will be OK if they are not exposed to UV light, ( the sun ). On the other hand I am a sucker for if a little is good allot has to be better!! As far as spraying it you don't need to that stuff flows out so nice. When you spray it you need to have a complete body coverage, face shield etc. as it does not come off your skin once its been there for a bit. Spraying it blows back on you. Trust me I learned this the hard way. Had a lightly black speckled face for about a month!
Do a search of old posts here I, and a few others have written tons of stuff on these types of things, along with body work etc. Also go to a book store (Barnes & Nobles or similar ) Get a few books on body work basics etc. Also I am not one to brag about the car and truck magazines articles on body work most times because some of the stuff they publish is real but can get you in trouble if your not carefull. But Peterson's 4 wheel and off road, & Hot Rod both have good write ups on body, & paint work this month.
The transfer case is a 208. I might be wrong but I don't think there is such an animal as a 206.
Tearing right into it though looks like good progress.
Harold.
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Since I am in the question asking mood, I got another one for you guys. What Type of spray guns do you guys recommend and now much will I be looking at spending? I don't need the top of the line b/c i am not a professonal but I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for. I only want to buy it once. I have a 33 gal air compressor to run it. I need to to spray the chssis saver, primer and of course the paint and clear. Thanks guys.
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33 gallon compressor is in my opinion to small. Will work for the frame, and primer as long as you are not priming the whole truck at once. be OK for cutting in jambs etc, but not for an overall paint job. A buddy of mine has a 50 gallon 5.0 HP If I remember correct. I did a quickie paint job on his Toyota and it couldn't keep up.
As far as spray guns I have several different brands. I bought a couple MAC Tools HVLP gravity feeds a few months back. They work real nice. Price wasn't bad either. around $250. Most not all inexpensive guns work fine for primers and such. they key is to keep them clean. Siphon fed guns are more forgiving in the clean dept.
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If i could go back in time i get a dual stage compressor.I got a 5 hp 60 gallon devilbiss compressor.As you mentioned blazin your right they cant keep up and get very hot fast.I had to put a window fan behind the motor to try n keep it cool but it dint work.I painted many cars in my garage and the best guns i have used were devilbiss FINISH LINE.I used cup guns for priming and the gavity fed guns for painting and clears.
thanks
pat
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KSU,
any progress on your truck?Havent seen much since you ripped it all apart.
thanks
pat