73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Interior & Equipment => Steering Columns => Topic started by: silvrbreez on October 22, 2008, 08:06:28 am
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I've searched through some older posts and can't find a clear answer to my question. Bear with me, I know this has probably been asked time and time again...
I had a faulty turn signal switch that needed to be swapped out. In addition to that, my cancelling cam was improperly rotate causing the turn signals not to cancel and the steering wheel be out of rotation. To fix all this, I removed the steering wheel, lockplate, and cancelling cam, swapped out the new turn signal switch, properly reinstalled the cam and lockplate and steering wheel...and that's where I draw a blank.
I can't remember the installation order of a few of the horn components.
This pic below was saved from classicparts.com and is for a 69-72 C10, but I've got all the same components. I've edited it in Photoshop to coincide with the numbers below. Let me know if I'm using any improper terms.
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w126/silvrbreez/27-125copy.jpg)
1. Horn Contact Kit (sits in the cancelling cam) - What is the linear order of placement of the contact kit (including spring, contact shaft, and retaining sleeve/bung) into the cancelling cam? Spring first, then shaft, then sleeve? Shaft first, then spring, then sleeve? Etc.
2. Belleville Spring (slightly curved washer that contacts horn contact kit; below shiny cup in pic) - What is the proper orientation of this piece? Convex up or concave down? Does it sit directly on the bottom of the steering wheel cup?
3. Plastic 3-leg Spacer - Where does this go? Does this go between the Belleville Spring (#2) and the Cup (#4) or on top the Cup?
4. Cup - I remember this being the first thing I saw when I removed the steering wheel horn button and I know the screws are visible in there. I can't remember if the Plastic 3-leg Spacer (#3) sat above or below this cup.
Right now the horn honks as it's own decision whenever I try to drive the truck and turn the steering wheel. My order of assembly was as follows...
#1 - Spring, shaft, sleeve
#2 - Convex up (I think?)
#4 with #3 on top and screwed through.
I couldn't tighten the screws all the way down or it would honk constantly. So I had to leave them a little loose and then the steering wheel horn button fit sloppy. I've read in some of the previous posts that these should be snugged down. I'm hoping that my order of installation is what's preventing me from doing this.
Any help you guys can provide is much appreciated.
3. Plastic
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Guys,
I think I might be close to answering my own question.
I did an image search for "GM STEERING COLUMN DIAGRAM" which led me to the following link of a Fiero steering column rebuild...
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/088020.html
About 2/3 to 3/4 of the way down that page it shows the orientation of the turn signal switch and cancelling cam just confirming that I have that in right. Although it's a later model Chevy column, it shows that the Horn Contact Kit (#1) goes in with the order of spring, shaft, sleeve.
I also looked in a really old service manual a coworker has laying around (60's series stuff), "Motor's Auto Repair Manual, 1967, 30th Edition", and read that the other components should be installed in the order of Belleville spring convex up (#2), Cup (#4), and Plastic 3-leg Spacer (#3).
Now, with all that being said, I think I had everything reinstalled correctly but will triple check tonight.
Moving forward, I'm thinking the reason my horn is constantly going off at it's own decision is most likely due to the Belleville Spring being slighly less convex that original. This would cause the horn contact kit to most of the time contact the Belleville spring, grounding out the horn and causing it to go off. This could have happened during my removal and reinstallation.
Any thoughts?
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we have a couple steering rebuilt links in the technical forum here:
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1947.0
It should be 1 - 2 - 4. You don't need 3.
It sounds like you are grounding out. I would flip #2 over if you are not sure how it came off.
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The heads on my screws aren't big enough to hold down #2 and #4 without using #3. I think I do need it, unless I have the wrong screws. Mine are actually Torx head screws and they may actually be a little too long. Hmmm?
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if yours already had #3 then you should use it. I missread your post.
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It's all good. Thanks for chiming in and I'll try flipping the Belleville Spring this evening.
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It needs to be isolated away so that when you depress the button it grounds the wire to the horn relay. Make sure the plastic inserts insulate the ring.
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Thanks guys for the help. It appears that with a little massaging, I can make the Belleville spring work again.
Let's keep it rolling...new can of worms uncovered... ???
You old pros should understand what I'm about to describe.
Looking at the shaft I realized the column is about 60 degrees out of rotation. Here's what I'm seeing...
The column shaft that the steering wheel sits on is fully splined where the wheel seats on it. Below that fully splined section there is an "inversed splined" section with what appears to be grooves at each of the hour positions on the clock minus 1. In order for the cancelling cam to sit in the turn signal switch so that it operates properly, the missing groove needs to be at the 12:00 position. This will also allow the lockplate teeth to seat the grooves correctly, lockplate to fit over the cancelling cam, and allow the horn contact kit to protrude the steering wheel in the right spot and the steering wheel to be aligned all nice and pretty. All that should happen with the wheels pointed straight forward. Sound right?
With my wheels pointed straight as I can get them, my column is rotated about 60 degrees clockwise so that the missing groove for the lockplate teeth is at approximately the 2:00 position. This alignment doesn't let me place the cancelling cam in the right spot within the turn signal switch and also makes my steering wheel look all jacked up and out of position when it's reinstalled. It was like this when I bought it. I can rotate the column shaft to make the grooves align properly so everything works, but doing this turns the wheels and the wheel would have to be turned back to the jacked up position to drive in a straight line. Doing that will still cause problems with the cancelling cam working properly.
My question is, what must I do to rotate the shaft the 60 degrees so that the wheels won't also turn in the process?
Would the easiest way be to straighten the tires, remove the Pitman arm from the steering box spline, rotate the shaft to the proper position using the steering wheel, then reinstall the Pitman arm onto the steering box shaft?
Thanks again guys for being so gentle with another newbie.
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get that all situated then if your steering wheel is off center you adjust that with the pitman arm adjusting sleeve that is the only purpose of that adjustment it will not effect your front end alignment. sounds to me like your pitman arm just needs adjusted to your steering wheel is straight and you will be good to go
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Does this procedure describe what you are talking about?
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:Q3pvkFpX6scJ:www.mcarw.com/automotivesrepair/Steering-Repair/20071129/794.html+%22pitman+arm+adjustment%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us
Are you referring to the tie rod adjustment sleeves or is there a part called the Pitman arm adjusting sleeve?
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pitman arm adjusting sleeve
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silvrbreez,
This is where taking some snapshots during the disassembly is invaluable :)
I had to take apart my steering column to replace several components topping everything off with a new Grant steering wheel. Luckily I had takes some photo's and made some notes as well.
In your case, I would try going to your local GM\Chevy Dealer check out the Parts Dept. They may be able to pull up a detailed parts diagram for you.
Good Luck.
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6879.0
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yeah let me know if you need something like that i am a tech at the Local GM dealership i have access to all SI (service Information) unfortunately they dont have these old trucks on the online Service info so i have to look up everything in the old books but i do have most of the 73-87 original GM service manuals!! Lucky me
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Thanks for all the help guys.
I've pretty much gotten the reassembly stuff settled. I realized my Belleville Spring is shot now though. After I removed it, I never realized it was cupped and placed it under something else. No more cup means no more worky. Got a new one on the way.
My only problem now is trying to straighten out the wheel. I'm going to look more into the Pitman arm adjusting sleeve procedure. If you've got anything you could pass along for that, maybe a walk-through, if you have time would be great.
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Only info I can find on Pitman arm adjusting sleeves is for 4x4 and is referred to as the drag link. I'm 2wd and don't recognize anything attached to the Pitman arm that looks like it can b be adjusted.
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sorry i read wrong i thought you had a 4 wheel drive. the only way to adjust steering wheel position on a two wheel drive is to adjust your toe with your tie rod ends, if you adjust them both the same amount you wont affect your alignment. if your steering wheel is off to the right like 2 o clock then you would adjust the right front toe out and the left front toe in. just make sure you go the same number of turns on both sides and it will bring your steering wheel straight. I E go a few turns on the tie rods then turn your tires so they are going straight and check your steering wheel. if its not quite there go a few more and check. see how that works for you and let us know.
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Wow, thanks for the quick response!
Any reason to worry that adjusting the tie-rods so much to correct the wheel would take away from my ability and/or magnitude of correction later at the tie-rods? The tie-rod adjusting sleeves appear to be placed pretty well center right now and I'm worrying that screwing each too much in one direction would take away my ability to adjust toe in either extreme case later. Any need to worry there.
I'm thinking maybe this is something that needs to be adjusted from the top of the power steering box up and maybe leave the steering alone from the steering box down. What would you suggest above the box, on the shaft in the engine bay, to possibly loosen and rotate to correct the wheel. Can anything be done there?
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Just get an alignment. Incorrect toe in will wear your tires the fastest.
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Ditto on the above. If everything is not centered, get an alignment on it. Your tires will thank you and so will your wallet.
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I hear you guys, but the truck tracks straight and true so long as the steering wheel is rotated to 2:00. The tires don't appear to be wearing unevenly at all. I really believe this is something wacky with the shaft. I just don't want to get an alignment just for the purposes of correcting the steering wheel, and then loose my range of adjustability later if I really do have an alignment problem.
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part of an alignment is adjusting the steering wheel so it is straight when going down the road. so if your worried about adjusting to make it straight the best solution would be to take it to a shop and explain that you want your steering wheel straight and centered along with checking toe in most shops wont charge the full rate if they don't have to screw with caster and camber but it will be checked when adjusting toe i agree with vile your alignment is important for proper tire wear.
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Thanks guys for bearing with me. Its apparent I'm more concerned then I should be.