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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: Michael on September 09, 2018, 11:27:47 AM

Title: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 09, 2018, 11:27:47 AM
Hey guys, I am in need of some advice/help from you gurus.  I am trying to pull my transmission back so I can access the bellhousing and replace a cracked clutch-fork.  I have never fooled with transmissions, so forgive please my ignorance.

First dumb question - do I need to pull the bellhousing off with the transmission or can I leave it connected to the engine and just pull the trans back?  (Based on stuff I saw on the web, I started pulling just the trans but am thinking that is going to mess things up.)

Second dumb question - do I need to cut the floorboard behind where the shiftier comes up in the floor?  I can't get the trans back far enough before the top hits the floorboard (see pic), even after dropping the trans a little by lowering the cross-bar-support (see pic).  I am afraid to drop the trans down any more for fear of bending the shaft in the bellhousing.

Any help, advise, or useful criticism, would be greatly appreciated!

-Michael

1986 K10 4x4
5.0L
SM465 4-speed manual
Title: Re: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: VileZambonie on September 09, 2018, 07:01:26 PM
Why are you afraid to remove the transmission altogether? If your clutch fork is cracked, it's most likely time to replace the clutch, resurface the flywheel etc. Take it down, get it out of your way.
Title: Re: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 09, 2018, 07:20:29 PM
It's not that I am afraid to get it out, it is that I can't get it out due to the top of the trans (shiftier nub) hitting the back of the hole in the floorboard.  I can't figure out how to drop the trans low enough to clear the hole.  The best I can figure is that people are lifting the front of the engine to pivot the back down some.

As for the rest, that is good advice.  Unfortunately, I just don't have the time or money right now or I would definitely do as you suggested.  I just changed jobs and am trying to play catch-up on finances so looking for a quick fix on this round and will do all the good preventative stuff next time.
Title: Re: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Peter S on September 10, 2018, 06:54:55 AM
Underneath your floor covering/mat there is a removable cover which will give you amble clearance to slide the tranny back. To replace the clutch fork, you will need to remove the bell housing.

The cover looks similar to the one shown
Title: Re: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: zieg85 on September 10, 2018, 07:49:51 AM
Underneath your floor covering/mat there is a removable cover which will give you amble clearance to slide the tranny back. To replace the clutch fork, you will need to remove the bell housing.

The cover looks similar to the one shown

86 the floor hump was not removable
Title: Re: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Peter S on September 10, 2018, 08:08:37 AM
Sorry, did not know that.
Title: Re: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: VileZambonie on September 10, 2018, 09:13:39 AM
Proper thing to do is remove the driveshafts, support the trans and transfer case securely on a jack and lower it down. If you are only replacing the fork, you still need to inspect the release bearing, clean and grease the collar, pack the reservoir, lube the pivot etc.

By afraid, I didn't mean that you were scared, just a figure of speech. It's only a few extra steps and you can be sure the job is done right.
Title: Re: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: claude on September 10, 2018, 12:01:25 PM
Follow the advice of VileZambonie. Beg, borrow, or rent a transmission floor jack as the transmission/transfer case is dang heavy.
Title: Re: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Stewart G Griffin on September 12, 2018, 01:43:07 PM
Underneath your floor covering/mat there is a removable cover which will give you amble clearance to slide the tranny back. To replace the clutch fork, you will need to remove the bell housing.

The cover looks similar to the one shown

86 the floor hump was not removable

For the years with a removable cover, was it all manual trans?    Or all with manual trans AND 4X4?
Which years had the removable cover?
Title: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: roundhouse on September 18, 2018, 05:00:09 AM
Find a transmission jack and scrape up the money to replace the clutch and throw out bearing and surface the flywheel while you have it apart

Best way is as mentioned
Remove the driveshaft and watch the wiring and stuff and lower the trans down
If it wonít drop enough
Jack up the front of the engine
But donít jack it on the crankshaft pully and donít poke a hole in the oil pan with the jack
Use a block of wood between the jack and pan


Also take out one of the bolts holding the trans to the bell and one bolt that holds the bell to the engine

Go to a hardware store and get four  replacement bolts for each kind
That are about six inches long

Cut the heads off and use a grinder or a saw and cut a screwdriver slot where you just cut off the head

Remove the factory bolts one at a time and replace them with your new long headless bolts

This will keep the trans straight on the bell while you slide it off and back on

Do the same with the engine to bell bolts

Makes it a lot easier
Title: Re: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 21, 2018, 08:58:13 PM
Thank you to all who offered me help.  I finally finished getting most of it back together, at least enough to drive.  I ended up having to use a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel to cut a slot in the floorboard so I could slide the trans back far enough to get the fork swapped. I was able to fish the old one out and the new one in once the shaft from the trans cleared the bell housing.

For anyone who reads this in the future, here is what I did. 


All in all it took me waaayy to long to do because I never did it before, was parked on railroad ties (gave me an 8" lift) and using jacks, and was doing it by myself.  I would stress that at no time was the transmission support bar removed.  It was simply lowered and raised using the long bolts, thus giving me a safe and firm place for the trans to rest while I was under it.  This was a dog of a job without a lift and proper trans jack but it can be done.

Hopefully this helps someone in the future who has the same problem getting a manual trans out and/or replacing a fork or throw-out bearing.
Title: Re: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 21, 2018, 09:04:58 PM
.
Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: VileZambonie on September 22, 2018, 06:09:55 PM
Sometimes you need to do what you need to do to get a job done however, cutting your floor was completely unnecessary and I still don't understand your logic in not simply lowering the unit to do the work needed.

Quote
I would stress that at no time was the transmission support bar removed.

Herein lies the problem and why you had to cut up your floor.
Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 22, 2018, 08:02:39 PM


I still don't understand your logic in not simply lowering the unit to do the work needed.



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Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 22, 2018, 08:14:23 PM


I still don't understand your logic in not simply lowering the unit to do the work needed.

The shaft goes into the bell housing about 6" or so making it impossible to lower it without first moving it back enough to clear the bell housing.  I could not move it back because the shifter nub stuck too far up.  So you can't go back or down more than about an inch.   I thought I could let the back of the transfer case enough to remove it at an angle but I could not get it low enough for the shifter nub to clear the Floorboard without the shaft starting to bend in the bell housing.  So I had to cut the slot so the trans would go straight back without bending the shaft while still in the bell housing.

As for the Cross member, that is why I used 6" bolts, so I could lower the trans (along with using the Jack's), but again it could not go down without bending the shaft in the bell housing.  It had to come back at least 5-6" to keep from bending it while being lowered.


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Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 22, 2018, 08:24:31 PM


I still don't understand your logic in not simply lowering the unit to do the work needed.



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Here is a picture that shows what I am talking about.  You can see that the top of the trans is slightly further away from the bell housing because I was lowering the back trying to get the shifter nub to clear the Floorboard.  The shaft is still way in the bellhousing and starting to bend.  Hence the need to cut the footboard so I could move it straight back.

They only other option I could come up with was to remove the engine mounts and raise/move the engine forward to clear the shaft but cutting the Floorboard was easier and much faster.  No matter what I decided to do the trans cannot be lowered until the shaft clears the bellhousing.

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Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 22, 2018, 08:28:48 PM
Here is the pic I meant to attach to the last post.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180923/ce162e538c9147d6d42dd7cb2ec96f56.jpg)

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Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: VileZambonie on September 23, 2018, 06:15:55 PM
Okay so you had a jack under the transmission and or transfer case right? So at that point, you remove the crossmember bolts and lower the unit down. At this point you do no not need to cut your floor.
Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 23, 2018, 08:01:16 PM
Okay so you had a jack under the transmission and or transfer case right? So at that point, you remove the crossmember bolts and lower the unit down. At this point you do no not need to cut your floor.
No, because the shaft is still in the bellhousing holding the trans up.  You can't go down until the shaft goes back enough to clear the bellhousing.

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Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: bd on September 23, 2018, 08:26:13 PM
Are you saying the engine won't let the transmission drop far enough?  Did you check to see whether the fan was binding against the radiator shroud?
Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 23, 2018, 08:35:13 PM
Are you saying the engine won't let the transmission drop far enough?  Did you check to see whether the fan was binding against the radiator shroud?
Correct.  Not far enough for the shifter knob to clear the floorboard. It came close, about a half an inch still stopping up, but I just couldn't get it any closer so went ahead and cut the notch.

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Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 23, 2018, 08:37:24 PM
Nub, not knob.   I hate this app, it won't let me edit anything.  Grrr

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Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: bd on September 24, 2018, 09:04:08 AM
Soooo,

Did you check to see whether the fan was binding against the radiator shroud?
Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: JohnnyPopper on September 24, 2018, 03:10:21 PM
SMH  :-X
Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 25, 2018, 04:14:37 PM
Soooo,
Did you check to see whether the fan was binding against the radiator shroud?

I was watching that and the distributor and while both were close there was a little more room to go but I was jacking the front of the engine so hard I was afraid to keep going.  Because this is my daily driver, I only had a couple more days with a loaner car, was working overtime the last couple weeks, and the weather (rainy hot and humid), I could not keep trying random things and just did what was easy and would clearly solve my problem.  It is possible that cranking the jack a little more on the engine might have have me enough room but I was skeptical and need to get it don and back on the road.
Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: VileZambonie on September 25, 2018, 05:29:14 PM
All you needed to do was remove the crossmemeber and lower the unit down. That's it!
Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: Michael on September 25, 2018, 06:05:01 PM
All you needed to do was remove the crossmemeber and lower the unit down. That's it!

You keep saying that but you can't seem to comprehend that there is a shaft coming out of transmission that goes into the bellhousing and until that shaft is moved back (out of the bellhousing) the SHAFT holds the front of the transmission up, not the cross-member.
Title: Re: SOLVED: Need HELP with 4-speed transmission removal problem
Post by: bd on September 25, 2018, 07:36:40 PM
Michael, simply as an FYI with no argument intended, Vile comprehends perfectly.  Vile, et al, have R&I'd many transmissions - too many to count.  As long as all interfering peripherals are suitably disconnected and moved out of the way (e.g., clutch linkage, speedo cable, shift lever, driveline, any connected wires, distributor cap & rotor, cooling fan or shroud, and the exhaust piping attached to the engine manifolds), removing the crossmember, entirely, allows the transmission to pivot the engine on its forward mounts as the transmission drops virtually from its own weight, with control provided by the jack.  Once the transmission is adequately tilted, the transmission can be unbolted and removed.  In some cases, the engine mountings can be stiff enough to cause the engine to rebound upward as the transmission is separated from the bell and its weight is unloaded from the clutch house, which can beg an added step of blocking the engine in its tilted position until the transmission is reinstalled.