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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => LS Swaps => Topic started by: spanky1205 on March 27, 2014, 01:29:07 AM

Title: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: spanky1205 on March 27, 2014, 01:29:07 AM
I am in the process of researching a 5.3 4l60 swap for my pickup.  Is there any model that is better than others as far as accessory layout?  As I understand the AC compressor will hit the frame of my truck.  Are there any models that drop between the rails without any clearance problems?  If not are there any models I should avoid because they cause big problems?  So far I think I have counted about 10 variations of the 5.3 throughout the years.  I am sure some work better than others.

Should I avoid engines with DOD and E85 capabilities?  I doubt I will ever seek out and run E85.  I have a basic understanding of what DOD is but, I am not sure if it is something that would be helpful to me.  I have heard mixed reviews in original OE applications and I have heard nothing about a swap such as mine.  It sounds like most people turn it off and forget about it.
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: dsgb610 on March 27, 2014, 03:12:39 PM
I have DOD on my G8 GT. I wouldnt pass on a block that had it but i would replace cam and lifters before the swap. YOu can turn it off in the ECM but the DOD lifters will still be in there.
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: zieg85 on March 27, 2014, 03:23:29 PM
E85 capable is something I would go for personally.  One reason is at times it is cheaper to run even though the mileage is a whole lot worse.  You have to calculate the $/mile and with the company car I recently had if the price was over $.70 or more less than regular unleaded it was cost effective to use E-85 if I didn't mind fueling up more often.  The second reason is the crappy gas nowadays laden with alcohol if you have the engine/fuel lines set up for E-85 then you're set for anything EPA mandates especially the E15 that is coming sooner than later if they get their way.  My $.02
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: spanky1205 on March 29, 2014, 06:04:24 AM
Thanks or the help guys.

DSG - Sounds like the DOD block would be something to shy away from unless the prices is too good to pass up.  Replacing the cam and lifters is an added expense.

Zieg - I never thought of the alcohol thing. That is a good point.  Now I have to make sure my new fuel lines can take it.

Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: bake74 on March 29, 2014, 09:02:40 AM
E85 capable is something I would go for personally.  One reason is at times it is cheaper to run even though the mileage is a whole lot worse.  You have to calculate the $/mile and with the company car I recently had if the price was over $.70 or more less than regular unleaded it was cost effective to use E-85 if I didn't mind fueling up more often.  The second reason is the crappy gas nowadays laden with alcohol if you have the engine/fuel lines set up for E-85 then you're set for anything EPA mandates especially the E15 that is coming sooner than later if they get their way.  My $.02

      While driving around yesterday, I saw a sign advertising E-85 fuel for sale ( it is just becoming more available in SAC and the surrounding areas ), and I always thought that E-85 was suppose to be at least comparable to gas prices if not less.
      I was shocked to see the sign that said it was .02 cents more expensive than diesel per gallon.  Which makes the order of price, gas then diesel, then E-85.
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: zieg85 on March 29, 2014, 09:13:00 AM
I can tell you I was impressed with the power of E-85 in the 2011 Ford Escape with a V-6.  It ran like a scalded dog but fuel mileage went from 28 down to 23...  To be more expensive is just not right.  Maybe the tree huggers with go for it but the average person I would hope has the sense to opt out.  I can't imagine it has taken on cause the 2014 Fusion says E15 at the most, E-85 Voids the warranty.   
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: dvdswan on March 30, 2014, 11:53:46 AM
for the accessories you will have to go with a high mount AC compressor or notch your frame.
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: spanky1205 on March 31, 2014, 05:53:29 AM
for the accessories you will have to go with a high mount AC compressor or notch your frame.

Yeah, I caught onto that.  I really want to make everything as stock as possible so I plan to look into notching the frame.  I am thinking notch and box it, but I have never done it before.  It cannot be that hard, plenty of guys are doing it.  If I do go through with notching the frame does that mean I will have to pull engine mounts to replace the A/C compressor if I ever need to?
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: Skyshadow on March 31, 2014, 12:55:10 PM
I can tell you I was impressed with the power of E-85 in the 2011 Ford Escape with a V-6.  It ran like a scalded dog but fuel mileage went from 28 down to 23...  To be more expensive is just not right.  Maybe the tree huggers with go for it but the average person I would hope has the sense to opt out.  I can't imagine it has taken on cause the 2014 Fusion says E15 at the most, E-85 Voids the warranty.   
The Escape had a turbo, thats why you felt a power increase. the E85 is more stable then 91 but it has a lot less energy. a Natural aspirated vehicle would not get a power increase.
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: Captkaos on April 03, 2014, 10:12:04 PM
None will be able to drop in as it as far as accessories in your truck.  If you are willing to notch the top of the frame it will fit down in there.  Most people myself included top mount the AC.

If you find a DOD and or VVT version and it is reasonable I would avoid it.  If you swap out parts to remove it and turn it off in the ECM.  If you don't want to swap parts just turn it off in the ECM.


If you want the best ECM get a newer one with E38.  Drive by wire is a plus not a negative btw.
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: zieg85 on April 03, 2014, 11:18:44 PM
I can tell you I was impressed with the power of E-85 in the 2011 Ford Escape with a V-6.  It ran like a scalded dog but fuel mileage went from 28 down to 23...  To be more expensive is just not right.  Maybe the tree huggers with go for it but the average person I would hope has the sense to opt out.  I can't imagine it has taken on cause the 2014 Fusion says E15 at the most, E-85 Voids the warranty.   
The Escape had a turbo, thats why you felt a power increase. the E85 is more stable then 91 but it has a lot less energy. a Natural aspirated vehicle would not get a power increase.
No it was a standard 3.0L, nothing special
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: Skyshadow on April 04, 2014, 08:24:00 AM
then that feeling of extra power had to be a perception. There is much less energy in ethanol compared to gasoline. Even with the 12-15% increase in fuel flow the ECM does to account for energy loss, you will still not get as much power as gasoline. The only reason Boosted cars do is because E85 has a octane rating around 105. the high octane rating lets you run higher boost and less timing adjustment, resulting in more power. drop for drop, gasoline is a vasty more superior stored energy source. 
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: zieg85 on April 04, 2014, 08:52:43 AM
then that feeling of extra power had to be a perception. There is much less energy in ethanol compared to gasoline. Even with the 12-15% increase in fuel flow the ECM does to account for energy loss, you will still not get as much power as gasoline. The only reason Boosted cars do is because E85 has a octane rating around 105. the high octane rating lets you run higher boost and less timing adjustment, resulting in more power. drop for drop, gasoline is a vasty more superior stored energy source.
Maybe so, but it seemed to run better to me.  This was my only company vehicle equipped to handle E-85 so far and I miss it over the 2014 Ford Fusion I drive now.
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: Captkaos on April 09, 2014, 10:10:38 PM
purposely built motor for E85 will make more power than if you powered it with premium gas, so motors built with both in mind and an ECM mapped for both will most likely make more power on the E85.  It won't get as much mileage though...
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: Skyshadow on April 15, 2014, 07:49:50 PM
^ if the mapping takes advantage of the higher octane then maybe. But i don't see it happening. Plus, its not like if you put a tank of E85 that you'll suddenly see a difference. Most Owner's manuals will tell you that it takes 2-3 tanks of fuel for the ECU to fully adapt to a fuel change.
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: Captkaos on April 15, 2014, 08:03:36 PM
Talking about purpose built vehicles not something you drive everyday. 
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: Skyshadow on April 15, 2014, 08:11:00 PM
^OOH then VERY MUCH agree! I thought you meant "E85 badged" types as purpose built. lol
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: SomeTexan on April 16, 2014, 08:31:48 AM
^ if the mapping takes advantage of the higher octane then maybe. But i don't see it happening. Plus, its not like if you put a tank of E85 that you'll suddenly see a difference. Most Owner's manuals will tell you that it takes 2-3 tanks of fuel for the ECU to fully adapt to a fuel change.

In a flex fuel vehicle, e85 is detected immediately and the computer changes to the e85 map. If it didnt, there would be a good chance of damage. It doesn't "learn" to run on e85, just a secondary map.

Spanky, if you use the dirty dingo ls swap mounts you can run all the stock ls truck accessories. The mounts are adjustable, if slid most of the way forward, it all clears. Barely.
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: Skyshadow on April 16, 2014, 08:39:55 AM
I understand they are dual mapped but they still have to learn the fuel characteristics. Just like how your car is currently learning as you drive it, it starts over on that task when switched to a new fuel.
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: SomeTexan on April 16, 2014, 09:25:27 AM
I understand they are dual mapped but they still have to learn the fuel characteristics. Just like how your car is currently learning as you drive it, it starts over on that task when switched to a new fuel.

The computer (for flex fuel) has 2 maps. One for unleaded and one for e85. Reading knock and o2 sensors it chooses a map for the fuel it is running on. Now, those maps do learn as they go, but within limits. As someone who has spent hours tuning these engines, I can say with 100% certainty that there are 2 base maps. The engine would be damaged before it could learn to run on e85 on its own. What most people think is the truck learning e85 is the truck trying to figure out what it is running on. A couple gallons of 93 in the tank turns that fresh e85 into e70. Now, say you got a winter blend (actually e70-75) then you are running closer to e50-e60. Luckily I live near a race track that sells fuel, and there are several race classes that run spec e85 fuel. Cheaper than the pump, and it is good fuel. I have never found pump e85 that tests good.
Title: Re: 5.3 Accessory Layout, DOD, E85
Post by: SomeTexan on April 16, 2014, 09:46:12 AM
Forgot to mention, normally what the computer has learned for each map is stored and isn't lost when you switch fuels. But, if you are running something between e85 and pump unleaded (a few gallons of one in the tank when you fill with the other) sometimes the computer can get confused as to what it is running, and it may try both maps, and could start changing them. Not a problem if you empty the fuel system, but not many people do.