Base/Clear with Acrylic Enamel???

[87ChevyMan]

Hi Everyone!  I'm new to the site and have a question about auto paint.  I've got an '87 Chevy SWB Silverado that I'm painting Solid Black.  The truck will be black with a single red pinstripe down the main body line.

The truck is very straight overall, with minimal body work.  I live in Louisville and was checking around for places to paint it.  Most production shops quoted me a price in the $4000 to $5500 range.  That seemed a little high to me so I checked around with a few of my friends and was given the names of a few guys who do work out of their own garage.  I had a guy who did some powder coating for me turn me on to one of his car club buddies who paints "on the side".  He told me that he does pretty good work, so now I've got my truck sitting in his paint booth.  So far so good...He seems like he knows what he's doing and has been very meticulous about the details.

So when I first talked to the guy, he quoted me a price of $2,500.  That price was to take the body down naked (all the trim, door handles, bumpers, etc), remove the glass, replace seals (all of which I provided)--He hired a glass guy to come and put the new front and rear seals in, $150; and do all the little body work, block sand, prime and paint.  But the one thing that kind of worries me is this guy's insistence on using acrylic enamel.  All the people I've spoken to tell me that base/clear in urethane is the best way to go for longevity, shine, and UV protection.  When I spoke to the guy originally, he said, "I'll be honest with you.  I prefer acrylic enamel..."  I said I wanted to have the pinstripe enveloped in clear, so it was kind of essential that the paint be base clear.  So he told me that he could clear over the pinstripe, but he still thought acrylic enamel was superior..."as far as yur durability", were his exact words.  Apparently there is a "clear" that Dupont makes in Acrylic Enamel.  He said he would paint the entire truck in black.  Wet Sand with 1500 paper.  Stripe it.  And shoot the acrylic enamel clear over the whole thing.  This is the first time I have ever heard of a doing a base/clear in acrylic enamel.  It is afterall, a "single stage" paint.  Has anyone ever heard of this or done it themselves?  Will it work?  Will it look good?  Thanks for the comments in advance.

[87suburban]

have ya tried talking to professionals on what is the better to you, by any chance?

[87ChevyMan]

Yes.  Most body shops where you would pay good money to have a decent paint job would use urethane base/clear.  I have not found a reputable one that uses single stage paint.  Although I believe there is a new single stage paint being promoted called urethane acrylic, that is supposed to have the same UV qualities as normal base clear, but is put on in a single application.

[87suburban]

oh. i'm not sure if they are slowly phasing out acrylic enamel paint or if they finally did phase it out, cause i thought i heard someone saying that they were phasing that type of paint out but i'm not sure on that. Although for me the first time i tried base coat/clear coat we had nothing but trouble with it, but me an my dad are just "backyard mechanics" and ended up painting my one car with acrylic enamel paint an thats what my dad is used to using

[87ChevyMan]

Yes, that's what I'm afraid of... Acrylic Enamel lends itself to ease of use for us "backyard mechanics".  I painted another 87 chevy of mine in fact with a 120$ can of NAPA enamel.  One thing folks like about enamel paint is that its easy to spray and doesn't take much to fix blemishes in the finish.  Everyone talks about..."Oh, all you need to do is cut and buff it and it will look like brand new."  Code language for: "I'm not that great of a painter, if I mess up with a run or a little orange peel I can always sand it with some 600 and buff the heck out of it."

I told a few car guys I work with what the painter was planning to use, and most of them just kind of scoffed at me.  "Acrylic Enamel is yester-year's technology, man!"...or "Don't they use that stuff on tractors?...hehe."  It seems like noone uses this stuff anymore.

[jaredts]

If this guy prefers acrylic enamel he is probably an older guy that never got on board with technology.  That would have scared me away as he isn't doing any show cars using that stuff.  On the other hand my grandfather and dad both ran body shops in Shelbyville, ky and my grandfather only used acrylic enamel also.  He buried rust under roofing tin and bondo.  My dad ran his shop like every car was a show car--nothing but perfection.  My dad's shop never made any money and my grandfather's made a decent living for him.

Acrylic enamel isn't bad, its just got its place, and its not getting phased out that I know of (more people still use it than you think).  Clear coat for acrylic enamel has been around for a long time, so there's no secret there.  You'll be fine as long as the guy knows what he's doing.  I'd be more concerned about the quality of this guy's work, prep, etc.

[87ChevyMan]

So these "clear coat for acrylic enamel" systems... Is the clear itself also enamel?  Or a urethane?  Dupont has a ChromaClear 7900S Multiuse Urethane and a 7779S MultiMix clear.  Neither of which are acrylic enamel, although they can apparently be sprayed over Dupont's Centari Acrylic Enamel.  Dupont has a note on the can that says their enamels can be clear coated up to 48 hours after painting without the need to sand.

Thanks for the input.

[87suburban]

well thats what i thought someone said was that they were phasing out acrylic enamel paint, i mean i'm not a professional at doing body work far from it, the little bit i learned was from my dad who worked at a body shop and it was from me an him fixin up my 78 trans am.

[HAULIN IT]

Although I believe there is a new single stage paint being promoted called urethane acrylic, that is supposed to have the same UV qualities as normal base clear, but is put on in a single application.

I'm willing to bet acrylic urethane paint has been on the market longer than you've been on the earth What year were you born? I was spraying Deltron acrylic urethane in the mid '80's. Good paint but not hardly anything "new".
 The "new" paint going is waterbase & it really isn't that new either.
 To answer your questions, yes Enamel is getting "phased out" due to EPA regs & the long dry times, ect. There have been MANY nice Enamel paint jobs done over the years, but honestly due to the "phasing out"...the prices have been driven up to promote the "newer" technology & limit the amount of products a company has to make/stock.
 Yes, enamel can be cleared, there was some acrylic enamel clear at one time, not sure if any of them are still available. There is also approved acrylic urethane clear that you can put over enamel. I would recommend you use the products the painter is used to using, if your not happy with the products...get another
painter.
 I personally can't see the expense of clearing a whole truck painted in Black enamel to burry a single pinstripe. Why not just put it on after the truck is painted? Two light coats of Red is all you would need & you will hardly feel it if done right. 
  A properly applied Black enamel paintjob can look great & last for years if taken care of, however this day & age I don't see why one would use it in this application...especially clearing it. Just my free Two cents worth, Lorne   

[87ChevyMan]

OK, I need either some advise or some consolation.  I called the painter today to ask him a few questions.  When I asked him originally about the paint he was going to use, he told me Dupont.  So in the course of talking to him, I said, "So tell me again what line of Dupont enamel you were using?"  He kind stumbled over his words and said, "It's actually called Kerger...But its a good paint, I've been using it for about 4 years now.  Its made by Dupont, so it's pretty much the same thang."  OK, now I'm getting worried.  First of all, I don't appreciate how this guy is saying on thing, I'm paying him dang good money to use good quality paint, and now he's pocketing all the extra and buying the cheap stuff.  But before I jump to such a hasty accusation, has anyone ever heard of this paint???  The paint color and number he gave me was "Superjet Black" KS70330.

[jaredts]

Its not Kerger, its Kirker.  He just drove down the street to Smart Shoppers (Produce Ln.) and bought it.  I admit I'm using Kirker too but its low end paint.  At least I'm using their urethane and not acrylic enamel.  If he told you he was using Dupont I would personally be upset.  Its not made by Dupont and I'd say its inferior to any of Dupont's lines.  I wouldn't have a problem using it, I don't guess, but wouldn't compare it to Dupont in any way.  The paint he's using is a single stage that you can add a basecoat converter to and shoot clear over.  Go to SmartShoppers website and you can read about what he's giving you.  Don't freak out, though, its fine its just not high end paint.

[87ChevyMan]

Thanks for the clarification.  I found out it was actually "kirker" after doing a little internet searching.  Yeah that really ticks me off though.  This is a classic example of how newbies like me get dooped into believing I'm getting a good deal.  I suppose in the future, I will buy the paint myself and tell the guy what to use.  I work with contractors all the time in my place of employment.  They all bid a certain price and say they're going to give you exactly what you spec'd.  Then you start getting in their business and investigating and they all start whining about how they can't give you this or that for the price they originally quoted you.  It's called "bull crap".  I'm half tempted to just pull out before I spend all my money on a cheap paint job--Jeeze!  If I had known this guy was going to hose me, I would have just spent an extra $1500 to have a paint shop do it...And to think, I am paying this guy $2500.  I thought that was still a pretty expensive job!!!