Not getting gas in carb

[MayheM]

I got the carb back on, and put a new neutral safety switch on(I don't think I did this right though because now it starts in any gear instead of just park and neutral.. however that's better than only reverse like before. I'll fiddle with it more tomorrow).

I went to start the truck and the battery was completely dead.. I'm not sure what the problem with the battery is. I don't know if I killed it trying to start it so many times when going through my wiring problems(not a good ground on negative cable, was melting the body ground) and then starter and fuel pump issues..

I don't have a battery charger, and I'm not sure if it would be chargable. I tried to jump it and it worked but only for about 2 attempts then it wouldn't even turn the headlights on.. I'm afraid to buy a new battery because I don't want to just kill it too.


EDIT: On 1 good note though.. It did splutter some and try to start up without me pouring any gas or anything in the carb, just pumping the accelerator a bit. So I assume the carb is getting some gas now, I'm going to check the fuel pressure and all that whenever that gauge kit comes in this week.

[MayheM]

Well I got the battery charged today at work. I put it on the truck when I got home and I got it fired up just by working the pedal a bit! I kept it running a bit. No more than a minute each time really.

However, it's smoking(white smoke) out of the tailpipes and there is liquid coming out of them aswell (I'm guessing water). I got my compression gauge in this week so now that the weather is better and I have a working battery I'm going to try to check the compression tomorrow.

So list of bads.. water in the oil, smoking, water out of the exhaust..
What all could these signs point to? As I said earlier in the thread, I was told it had a blown head gasket.. I just hope it isn't more, but if so then I'll rebuild it. Or try haha

[bd]

At least three possibilities are (1) blown head gasket - the most common scenario, (2) leaking intake gasket, (3) cracked block or cylinder head.

Concerning water in the oil:

On a 60+ degree day do you see profuse white smoke from the exhaust after running the engine for 30 seconds to a couple of minutes when first started cold? 

Water in the oil isn't necessarily a blown head gasket.  Deteriorated intake gaskets or cracks in the castings can also be a source of water in the oil.  Begin your evaluation by checking cylinder condition. 

Remove all the spark plugs and keep them in order by cylinder.  Do any of the spark plugs look wet or have coolant on them?  Are any of the spark plug electrodes/insulators particularly clean relative to the others?  Have an assistant crank the engine while you watch under the hood.  Stay clear of the fan and belts!  Watch for a white cloud or mist blowing out of a cylinder on the first engine revolution - that is an indication of water in that cylinder.  Next, run a (dry) compression check to identify any low cylinders and write down the results.  Run a second (wet) compression check on each cylinder after squirting two oil can shots of 30 wt oil into each cylinder, one at a time, in turn, as you recheck the compression.  Post all your results, dry and wet.

[MayheM]

Forgive me, I completely forgot about that post. Thanks for reposting it! I'll try to get to work this weekend. Also I have a question about that. Did you mean crank the engine with all the plugs out to look for mist? Or just watch in the engine bay while cranking? I did notice there was a lingering cloud of mist or light smoke in the engine bay after I turned the truck off today. Seemed to be coming from below the valve cover on the drivers side.

I plan on pulling the plugs to check them tomorrow and check my compression as well.  Will post pics and results. Thanks so much for your time and awesome help

At least three possibilities are (1) blown head gasket - the most common scenario, (2) leaking intake gasket, (3) cracked block or cylinder head.

Concerning water in the oil:

On a 60+ degree day do you see profuse white smoke from the exhaust after running the engine for 30 seconds to a couple of minutes when first started cold? 

Water in the oil isn't necessarily a blown head gasket.  Deteriorated intake gaskets or cracks in the castings can also be a source of water in the oil.  Begin your evaluation by checking cylinder condition. 

Remove all the spark plugs and keep them in order by cylinder.  Do any of the spark plugs look wet or have coolant on them?  Are any of the spark plug electrodes/insulators particularly clean relative to the others?  Have an assistant crank the engine while you watch under the hood.  Stay clear of the fan and belts!  Watch for a white cloud or mist blowing out of a cylinder on the first engine revolution - that is an indication of water in that cylinder.  Next, run a (dry) compression check to identify any low cylinders and write down the results.  Run a second (wet) compression check on each cylinder after squirting two oil can shots of 30 wt oil into each cylinder, one at a time, in turn, as you recheck the compression.  Post all your results, dry and wet.

[bd]

Did you mean crank the engine with all the plugs out to look for mist? Or just watch in the engine bay while cranking?

• Remove all the spark plugs, but keep them in their correct order by cylinder.
  
  
• Inspect the spark plug insulators and electrodes for traces of water (tiny droplets or rust residue) and combustion deposits.  Exceptionally clean spark plugs maybe an indicator of water in that cylinder, because water steam cleans the combustion chamber.
  
  
• Disconnect the 12-volt power lead from the distributor, so the plug wires can't spark.
  
  
• While you're watching under the hood, and your fingers are clear of the belts and fan, have an assistant crank the engine over about two complete revolutions.  If there is water in a cylinder, it will blow out forcefully on the first revolution.  Observing where the mist originates will help you focus your attention.
  
  
• Now, you're ready to proceed with the compression check as previously outlined.
  

[LeftysRodandCustom]

Whichever scenario it is, it isnt going to be good, but it will dang sure in my opinion be easier than rebuilding a Q-jet. You're on the right track and with some excellent advice, you'll get it for sure.

[MayheM]

Did you mean crank the engine with all the plugs out to look for mist? Or just watch in the engine bay while cranking?

• Remove all the spark plugs, but keep them in their correct order by cylinder.
  
  
• Inspect the spark plug insulators and electrodes for traces of water (tiny droplets or rust residue) and combustion deposits.  Exceptionally clean spark plugs maybe an indicator of water in that cylinder, because water steam cleans the combustion chamber.
  
  
• Disconnect the 12-volt power lead from the distributor, so the plug wires can't spark.
  
  
• While you're watching under the hood, and your fingers are clear of the belts and fan, have an assistant crank the engine over about two complete revolutions.  If there is water in a cylinder, it will blow out forcefully on the first revolution.  Observing where the mist originates will help you focus your attention.
  
  
• Now, you're ready to proceed with the compression check as previously outlined.
  

Thanks again man, you've been extremely helpful and I appreciate it a ton. Hopefully I don't get too annoying. If I can't follow those directions and the ones you've outlined for the compression test, then I should stay away from the truck haha.

Whichever scenario it is, it isnt going to be good, but it will dang sure in my opinion be easier than rebuilding a Q-jet. You're on the right track and with some excellent advice, you'll get it for sure.

I'll learn something for sure, that's what it's all about in my mind. I'm not sure how well I rebuilt the Q-jet, but it seems to have worked somewhat today.

[MayheM]

Let's see if the post works this time. I pulled the plugs and checked the compression today. I didn't notice any big difference in the plugs. I have close up pics that I will upload when I get home tonight.

The compression results were as follows.. forgive me but I don't know which number each cylinder is.
The order is front to back of engine.
Driver's side
Dry - Wet
135 - 150
75 - 80
60 - 65
115 - 120

Passenger's side
Dry - Wet
145 - 155
140 - 155
120 - 135
145 - 145

The 140 on the passenger was actually between 140 and 145.

EDIT: Posted on my phone and it jumbled it all up.. fixed it

[LeftysRodandCustom]

On a chevrolet the drivers side is the "odd" side. So from front to back the cylinders run 1,3,5,7 and on the passenger side from the front to back is 2,4,6,8   The firing order of these can be referenced on the intake manifold just in front of the carb. 18436572  If ever you change distributors etc this will be invaluable to you. Now your compression numbers are telling a story all their own, with cylinders 3 and 5 putting up very low numbers. My guess and only a guess is that you'll find the head gasket to be blown right between the two at the top water jacket. This would explain not leaking externally but being able to leak pressure off between the two on different strokes and the water in the exhaust. I would pull both heads being as you're going to be that far in anyway and have the left bank checked for cracks at a minimum. The good news if there are no cracks is that its not that bad of a fix. Clean the surface well and follow the torque procedure and some valve setting and you're there, all of which you can get great advice on right here if you get stuck.

[MayheM]

On a chevrolet the drivers side is the "odd" side. So from front to back the cylinders run 1,3,5,7 and on the passenger side from the front to back is 2,4,6,8   The firing order of these can be referenced on the intake manifold just in front of the carb. 18436572  If ever you change distributors etc this will be invaluable to you. Now your compression numbers are telling a story all their own, with cylinders 3 and 5 putting up very low numbers. My guess and only a guess is that you'll find the head gasket to be blown right between the two at the top water jacket. This would explain not leaking externally but being able to leak pressure off between the two on different strokes and the water in the exhaust. I would pull both heads being as you're going to be that far in anyway and have the left bank checked for cracks at a minimum. The good news if there are no cracks is that its not that bad of a fix. Clean the surface well and follow the torque procedure and some valve setting and you're there, all of which you can get great advice on right here if you get stuck.

Thanks for the info! I have a few questions though. By get the heads checked for cracks, you mean I should find a shop to test them for me? And if they're good I should just replace both head gaskets. What info do I need to know on the gaskets? I kinda looked at them on a few websites but they have all kinds of different ones lol.

Also, is there other things I should inspect while I'm into the engine that far?


Here is an album of pics of the plugs, I believe the order is 1, 3, 5, 7, 2, 4, 6 ,8(driver front to back then passenger if theyre in the right order, that should be the order I took them). They got a bit dirty because I had them on the ground on a shop towel and some dirt got on them, but I wiped the dirt off before putting them back in.

Spark Plug Pics
http://imgur.com/a/AiAto

[LeftysRodandCustom]

If you get down to it and find an obvously blown head gasket then you might be able to get by just replacing it, but if it doesnt jump right out at you I'd take them to a local machine shop to have them cleaned and crack checked. If you bolt on a cracked head you will encounter the very same problem right at startup really. As for gaskets, yes there are dozens of them that fit and are for different applications. If this is a daily driver on a factory head theres no real reason to get all crazy with the gaskets. A Fel-Pro 1003 would do just fine. It can get pretty blurry if you start diving into the different thicknesses, bores, and composition of them.

[MayheM]

If you get down to it and find an obvously blown head gasket then you might be able to get by just replacing it, but if it doesnt jump right out at you I'd take them to a local machine shop to have them cleaned and crack checked. If you bolt on a cracked head you will encounter the very same problem right at startup really. As for gaskets, yes there are dozens of them that fit and are for different applications. If this is a daily driver on a factory head theres no real reason to get all crazy with the gaskets. A Fel-Pro 1003 would do just fine. It can get pretty blurry if you start diving into the different thicknesses, bores, and composition of them.

Thanks, I'll try to get the heads off of it early this week and get the gaskets and a torque wrench. I'll decide on the shop cleaning and crack checking them when I get them off. I might just do it anyway depending. I'll have to try to find a shop around here as well.

Also, what other gaskets will I need to replace? I'll research it but though I'd throw it up incase I forget

[bd]

All the spark plugs are dark from soot, since the engine didn't come up to operating temperature on the prior start-up.  Cylinder #5 spark plug is damp with coolant; that cylinder also has the lowest compression.  Although they are all discolored, notice how spark plugs #3 and #5 are slightly cleaner than the rest?  I agree with Lefty - the gasket is blown between cylinders #3 and #5.  You're exhibiting some coolant in cylinder #8 too - probably due to pulse transfer through the intake manifold runners.  The #3 spark plug looks like it might have been a little tight coming out of the head.  You should chase the spark plug holes.  The #2 and #7 spark plugs are slightly wet with oil.  Have you noticed any blue exhaust smoke, especially on cold start-up?  The #7 cylinder is also low on compression.  Either cylinder #7 valves are just beginning to leak or the left head gasket is on the verge of failure there too.

What spark plugs are you using?

Now is a great time to check the timing chain play (next to last paragraph), before disassembly.

Both heads should be removed and sent to an automotive machine shop for disassembly, cleaning, inspection (including checking for cracks) and possibly surfacing and some machine work.  You should install new valve guide seals (use Viton press-on seals).  The machine shop can provide the correct gasket sets, or you can purchase them yourself (I prefer FelPro Permatorque gaskets).  You will need two head gaskets, an intake manifold set, and possibly exhaust gaskets.  If you are using stock cast exhaust manifolds, pick up and install four Lisle 13000 manifold spreaders BEFORE you unbolt the manifolds from the heads!

Once you get the heads off, remove the valve lifters one-at-a-time and inspect the lifter feet for concave wear (a common problem with GM camshafts).  If the lifters are worn concave the cam lobes are equally worn; replace the camshaft and lifters as a set and install a new double roller timing set.  Don't forget the timing cover gasket set. 

Clean and inspect all parts and keep them organized!  If the head bolts exhibit any evidence of pitting, rust, etc, replace them as a set.

Additional tools to rent or purchase:

• Gasket scraper
  
  
• Removing the lower timing (crank) gear requires a harmonic balancer puller/installer and a gear puller
  
  
• 1/2" drive ~150 lbs-ft torque wrench
  

Edit:
When you remove the lifters, DO NOT mix the lifters up!  Keep them mated with their respective cam lobes.

Purchase Ultra Copper silicone sealer for the intake manifold, exhaust manifold and timing cover gaskets and ARP PTFE sealer for the cylinder head and intake bolts.  Do not use any sealer on the head gaskets.

[MayheM]

All the spark plugs are dark from soot, since the engine didn't come up to operating temperature on the prior start-up.  Cylinder #5 spark plug is damp with coolant; that cylinder also has the lowest compression.  Although they are all discolored, notice how spark plugs #3 and #5 are slightly cleaner than the rest?  I agree with Lefty - the gasket is blown between cylinders #3 and #5.  You're exhibiting some coolant in cylinder #8 too - probably due to pulse transfer through the intake manifold runners.  The #3 spark plug looks like it might have been a little tight coming out of the head.  You should chase the spark plug holes.  The #2 and #7 spark plugs are slightly wet with oil.  Have you noticed any blue exhaust smoke, especially on cold start-up?  The #7 cylinder is also low on compression.  Either cylinder #7 valves are just beginning to leak or the left head gasket is on the verge of failure there too.

What spark plugs are you using?

Now is a great time to check the timing chain play (next to last paragraph), before disassembly.

Both heads should be removed and sent to an automotive machine shop for disassembly, cleaning, inspection (including checking for cracks) and possibly surfacing and some machine work.  You should install new valve guide seals (use Viton press-on seals).  The machine shop can provide the correct gasket sets, or you can purchase them yourself (I prefer FelPro Permatorque gaskets).  You will need two head gaskets, an intake manifold set, and possibly exhaust gaskets.  If you are using stock cast exhaust manifolds, pick up and install four Lisle 13000 manifold spreaders BEFORE you unbolt the manifolds from the heads!

Once you get the heads off, remove the valve lifters one-at-a-time and inspect the lifter feet for concave wear (a common problem with GM camshafts).  If the lifters are worn concave the cam lobes are equally worn; replace the camshaft and lifters as a set and install a new double roller timing set.  Don't forget the timing cover gasket set. 

Clean and inspect all parts and keep them organized!  If the head bolts exhibit any evidence of pitting, rust, etc, replace them as a set.

Additional tools to rent or purchase:

• Gasket scraper
  
  
• Removing the lower timing (crank) gear requires a harmonic balancer puller/installer and a gear puller
  
  
• 1/2" drive ~150 lbs-ft torque wrench
  

Edit:
When you remove the lifters, DO NOT mix the lifters up!  Keep them mated with their respective cam lobes.

Purchase Ultra Copper silicone sealer for the intake manifold, exhaust manifold and timing cover gaskets and ARP PTFE sealer for the cylinder head and intake bolts.  Do not use any sealer on the head gaskets.

The spark plugs are AcDelco R45TS (should i change them to something else? These are just what was in it when I got it a few weeks ago). On the blue smoke question, no I haven't noticed any but white. My brother in law and dad were behind it the first few times i started it and they said the smoke was white. It's only been started maybe 4 or 5 times now.

I'll read the timing chain link tomorrow and get that done before I disassemble anything. In the meantime I'll try to find a machine shop, I'm sure some of the guys I work with, or some my dad work with will know a good one (we're both machinists, just not automotive). I'll also look into the intake manifold set and exhaust. The truck has headers on it currently, so I can just unbolt them and put new gaskets on when I reinstall correct?

Thanks for all the advice. Your post was super informative and thorough, I really appreciate it. I'm sure I'll be back with a few more questions before I get it all tore down. I'll try to make sure to remember to check the timing chain before I start ripping things out.

I'll be back with updates as soon as I have anything done. Going to try to collect parts and tools, plus make a solid plan before I dive into this job.

[bd]

The spark plugs are AcDelco R45TS (should i change them to something else? These are just what was in it when I got it a few weeks ago).

R45TS is a popular plug that works well for most stock configurations.  If the engine has any tendency to ping once it's back together, try using the R43CTS.

The truck has headers on it currently, so I can just unbolt them and put new gaskets on when I reinstall correct?

Correct - and you won't need to worry about manifold distortion, so you can forgo the four spreaders.

I neglected to mention, pick up a roll of 80-grit paper and mill a 1.5" square block of oak about 6" long to make a hard, flat sanding block to surface the engine block and intake manifold sealing surfaces prior to reassembly.  This will remove minor surface imperfections and provide a truly clean, flat sealing surface with some bite for the gaskets.  Wet the paper with solvent or kerosene while 'sanding.'  Retain the paper with a sheet metal screw in one end.