Automakers are at it Again to Try and Kill American Innovation

[ehjorten]

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/automakers-say-you-dont-really-own-your-car

http://www.infowars.com/automakers-want-to-outlaw-gearheads-from-working-on-their-own-cars/

[enaberif]

This isn't something will not allow us to not tinker on our vehicles. This is more to do with cars in the last 10 years with so much electronic and computerized crap that it could be dangerous for someone not knowing to potentially cause an  issue with their car.

IE: flash a computer to disable traction control.

[ehjorten]

When all that is left are computer controlled cars, then what will you do?!  This comes up every few years, but if we let them they would say you don't have the right to do anything to your vehicle!

Americans should be up in arms because it would be the beginning of consumers rights being reduced!  Dumbing down of America!  'No, you can't fix that'!  From cars to heat pumps to washing machines!

[Stewart G Griffin]

A company (might have been Nissan but not sure) for a while, or may still be doing this-----there is no dipstick on the transmission and no way to remove the pan----they want you to go to the dealership for any transmission servicing.

[Irish_Alley]

bmw has a lift time warranty on their "sealed" trans. their "lifetime" is only for 100,000 miles so yeah you dont have to change the fluid in their eyes for the lifetime of the car and the risk of transmission damage for changing the fluid or in the case of a sealed trans a flush. but if you want that car to go past its lifetime then you have to

The decision to employ access controls to hinder unauthorized ‘tinkering’ with these vital computer programs is necessary in order to protect the safety and security of drivers and passengers and to reduce the level of non-compliance with regulatory standards.”

since when has someone "tinkered" with their prog and caused a death resulting in airbags not working or gas tanks bursting in flames. if you speed and get killed you can do that just as easy with or without a prog. and if were able to "tinker" to get better millage or power out of the car then whats the problem. the only problem i see is when you have diesels "rolling coal" and most time they re producing more hp but higher pollutants. they should make excessive pollution illegal, oh wait isnt it?

[frotosride]

I for one think this is complete CRAP! who in the world are they to tell me I can't play with my toys. I paid 42k for my wifes jeep and when it is paid off...watch out because the aftermarket and fabrication is going to go crazy. Besides us there is a multi billion dollar aftermarket community whose lively hood is changing these exact things...its not going down without a fight. If it goes through you will be able to find me in some court and or jail off and on until it changes or I die.

When all that is left are computer controlled cars, then what will you do?!  This comes up every few years, but if we let them they would say you don't have the right to do anything to your vehicle!

Americans should be up in arms because it would be the beginning of consumers rights being reduced!  Dumbing down of America!  'No, you can't fix that'!  From cars to heat pumps to washing machines!

My Wife's jeep is like this too.

[Engineer]

Let me be the first to blame the slip and fall ambulance chasing vultures er, um I mean lawyers.



And while we are talking autonomous self driving cars, can anyone say how I'm supposed to drive across my farm with one of these? What if I need to steer around a wash out or even a simple mud puddle.

[roundhouse]

Easy way to solve this
Just dont buy new vehicles

The.newest  vehicle we have is a '04 Expedition

It's purposefully designed to be far more complex than it needs to be

The power window switch doesn't go to the window
It tells the computer to lower the window

We got it cheap at a repo auction

When it conks out the replacement vehicle will be a 88-91 K-5 Blazer
New enough to have EFI and overdrive
A vehicle doesn't need to be any more complicated than  that 
The new vehicles are designed on purpose so no one can work on em


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LTZ C20]

Though I love the old stuff and we all know I'm sucker for anything made of steel, I do not believe that the sole purpose of the newer vehicles is to be so complex that your average Joe can't work on them. I do believe that automakers are leading technology in curtain areas and using these technologies to better have more advanced, smarter, safer, more efficient vehicles. I have also seen what happens when some average Joe's try and ticker with newer vehicles, it's usually not pretty.

My newest vehicle is an 03 Tahoe, I myself have done a number of repairs on it, including advanced electrical. But when I get stumped, i still ask the guys at work. I think that the newer stuff is complex enough that it's probably better to have certified technicians work on them because if you want to work on cars now a days you have to be a pretty smart cookie.

Just about everyone on this site can replace carburetors, do most easy electrical and stuff on this older trucks. But bodywork, LS swaps, high performance builds and tuning still requires at least a little skill. I will also say there are many members on this site who are extremely intelligent and real professionals when it comes to curtain technical matters and the science behind curtain systems.

I'm honestly on fence about the whole thing. I think there's probably more "conspiracy" if you will, behind emissions regulations and the EPA and being greener. 50% could be automakers trying to be smart and resource full and make a better product, 50% could be tree huggers trying to make us all ride cars named after plants.

I'm not even 25 years old, I would be absolutely ticked pink if I had the ability to go right to my boss at work and tell him I want to buy a brand new truck from him. I would love one of those 2015 2016 Chevy Silverado 3500 HD High Country trucks, fully loaded. Ain't no way in heck I'm gonna work on it tho. BUT, I will always love having a few old trucks square bodies around and I'm the ONLY person who's ever gonna get near that truck with anything that looks like a screw driver or socket wrench. I do all the work on my truck myself and that's the way it will always be.

New truck gets broken, take it to the dealer. Old truck gets broken, fix it in my garage.

I think some of us that love the old school aren't very good at embracing the new school. Be it a good idea or not. I loved to learn when GM developed an 8 speed automatic transmission. Never ever do I wanna work on 1. I'll stick to rebuilding something that's close to twice my age.

[Dr_Snooz]

Why don't they just do like everyone else and build cars that break after the first year?

I lost interest in new cars when they started putting those GPS monitors in them. I just thought, "you're putting that big ugly screen in there and you expect me to pay a monthly fee to keep it working? Are you high?" The whole drive-by-wire thing really put me off too. I want a mechanical connection to what I'm doing. I don't trust computers not to crash before crashing me. Having Toyota's unintended acceleration and now the Takata airbags trying to blow shrapnel into people's faces has only confirmed my suspicions. Watching everyone fawn over the godawful Prius was the final nail in the new car coffin for me. Whatever they're selling, I'm not interested.

What they really need to do is come up with an open-source car. I have not missed Windows one time since adopting Linux. I'm sure I'd feel the same about an open-source car.

[Engineer]

Prius.

Never understood that puke obsession. Ugliest car on the road.

Google "Prius crash" and you'll NEVER have a desire to own one.

[LTZ C20]

I actually watched a prius get whipped out by a Buick about a month or so ago. All people were ok but prius was demolished.

[BBM3]

For arguments sake I'll take the side of the Manufacturer.

An aftermarket Tuner reverse engineers the factory tune and builds a new one.
Often disabling the knock sensors, torque management, downstream O2 sensors, remaps the fueling too lean, and advances timing all in the name of more HP/TQ.
Mission accomplished. More HP/TQ.

The Customer flashes the new tune and sometime afterwords blows up his/her motor.
Who is responsible for fixing the blown motor?
The Manufacturer says: “Not Me”
The Tuner says: “Not Me”
The Owner says: “Crap. I guess it's Me”

I believe the Manufacturer has every right to lockdown their firmware.

Maybe the best solution is for the Manufacturer to add a couple lines of code that will unlock the ECM, PCM, VCM, WXYZCM once the factory warranty expires based on time and or mileage and then let us have at it?

Just a thought.



Edit: Corrected some spelling errors..... Again

[frotosride]

Prius.

Never understood that puke obsession. Ugliest car on the road.

Google "Prius crash" and you'll NEVER have a desire to own one.

For a go-kart they are rather safe and possibly fun...
http://youtu.be/oPQIizRp9ck

[Dr_Snooz]

I remember 30 years ago, the automakers were focused on finding new, cool features to add to their cars. They were seeking out better materials, better technologies, better mileage, more performance, more safety. They were constantly tinkering with pricing and sales incentives to make their cars as attractive to buyers as possible. They cared about JP Power surveys and the like. Now all they can do is find ways to jab us in the eye.

It wouldn't be a big deal, but it seems like every large business in the known world is following the same game plan. Forget about customer satisfaction. We're going to rob you, or spy on you, or give you a cavity search when you come around us. If you avoid us, we'll buy off some Congressmen or the President and force you to buy our crap. The health insurance companies passed Obamacare so they could force us to buy their product. The air travel experience gets worse every year. Every appliance, like refrigerators, blenders and such, is so stuffed full of spy tech that half the customer-oriented features don't work. They all break immediately, if they ever work to begin with. Every new smart phone I've had has been worse than the last. Every time I buy a new laptop, I spend the first couple weeks picking out all the adware and spyware and useless cross-promo marketing. The power company here was super fast to get my "Smart" (ie: spy) meter installed. When I call them with a question, however, they can't be bothered. My insurance company can send me cancellation notices, but can't get my monthly bill to me. It goes on and on.

It's like the whole world has gone insane and I'm the only rational person left. I get to watch all these lunatics burn western civilization to the ground. I can see the train wreck coming, but am powerless to stop it. I can only watch. I'd like to tell the automakers, "this isn't the way to win market share!" I can try to explain that satisfied customers are essential to business success. But now it's like "who needs satisfied customers when we have lawyers and PACs?" It would be fascinating to watch if I weren't on the receiving end of it all.