Alcohol enriched fuels and E85

[Greybeard]

My understanding of alcohol is that you need almost twice as much to get the same power as gas. That's why it wrecks small engines and old engines that can't compensate for the E-10, they run lean and burn up. Not to mention the corrosion. The reason it's used in racing is because by using twice as much liquid, it helps cool the combustion chamber.  The engine is started and warmed up on gas using a different carb, then the alcohol carb is installed, the fuel pump belt installed, and then raced on alcohol. After racing, the gas carburetor is put back on and the run for a while to get the corrosive alcohol out of the engine. If I remember correctly they also drain the whole fuel system.

Alcohol has less BTU than gas. (less energy in the same quantity of fuel). It's not possible to get better MPG when more fuel is required to produce the same energy. Propane and natural gas are the same way, they don't have the same energy content as gas or diesel.

That's the problem, the vehicle needs to be re-jetted for alcohol. I don't want to mess with jetting to mow my lawn. The blends suck, let gas be gas, and alcohol be alcohol. If someone likes alcohol they can install a fuel system to meet their needs.

Edit: Greybeard beat me to it. And with much more technical info. LOL

Well, I am studying for my Masters degree. I can do plenty of research in the universities online library. However, I also have had 45 years of real live experiences too, since I figured my gearhead days didn't start until I was nearly fourteen and I had my first motorcycle- a Honda SL350 very similar to this although I don't know what this particular ones year is, mine was a late 60's model.

 

[SomeTexan]

My understanding of alcohol is that you need almost twice as much to get the same power as gas. That's why it wrecks small engines and old engines that can't compensate for the E-10, they run lean and burn up. Not to mention the corrosion. The reason it's used in racing is because by using twice as much liquid, it helps cool the combustion chamber.  The engine is started and warmed up on gas using a different carb, then the alcohol carb is installed, the fuel pump belt installed, and then raced on alcohol. After racing, the gas carburetor is put back on and the run for a while to get the corrosive alcohol out of the engine. If I remember correctly they also drain the whole fuel system.

Alcohol has less BTU than gas. (less energy in the same quantity of fuel). It's not possible to get better MPG when more fuel is required to produce the same energy. Propane and natural gas are the same way, they don't have the same energy content as gas or diesel.

That's the problem, the vehicle needs to be re-jetted for alcohol. I don't want to mess with jetting to mow my lawn. The blends suck, let gas be gas, and alcohol be alcohol. If someone likes alcohol they can install a fuel system to meet their needs.

Edit: Greybeard beat me to it. And with much more technical info. LOL

First off, this is a 73-87 Chevy truck forum. Your lawn mower, chainsaw and tractor do not apply to this conversation. People just need to stop bringing them up unless the are powering your 73-87 Chevy down the road. Also, I agree 100% that e5, e7, e10 and e15 are junk blends. They have no use whatsoever in any engine. Period.

With E85, according to the tuning software I run 15-30% more ethanol than gasoline. I also run about 3 times as much boost making considerably more power. I don't know why the mod that made this thread threw alcohol in the title, it has nothing to do with the conversation that was going on. This started from greybeard saying there were no good fuels at the pump. I disagreed because I have had several daily drivers and track toys making well over 1000hp. Try that on any other fuel that is available at the pump. Alcohol race fuel isn't available at the pump so isn't part of this discussion.

I never said that e85 runs perfect in everything with no mods. In fact I said that there are no production vehicles that are built to run it properly. This is a website about old trucks, many of which are weekend hot rods and toys. Being hot rods and toys, people tend to modify and improve them. If you want to make your hot rod fast do you want to build for 10.5-1 compression on 93 or 14-1 on e85? It's not for everyone, but it is for anyone that wants to make power on cheap fuel.

The original topic (or the off topic posts that started this post) was about pump gas. Greybeard claimed that there are no good pump fuels. I stated that E85 was a very good performance fuel and can support more hp than any other pump gas that has been available in this country.

[bd]

Well, it is very apparent there are opposing viewpoints that are not going to be settled in this thread.  LOL 

There is validity in everyone's perspective from the context of their specific application.  SomeTexan simply stated that E85 is a great high performance fuel for engines that are built to burn it.  He qualified that statement by adding that although some production street vehicles will run on E85, they will not run as well as they could if properly tuned.  He never advocated E85 as an excellent street fuel for all vehicles and applications, quite to the contrary.  So, one has to be sufficiently aware of his/her engine's build to make a purposeful choice between gasoline and E85.

But also recognize there is unanimous agreement in this thread that the alcohol-enriched fuels broadly available at fueling stations today offer little benefit with decreased fuel mileage and are somewhat destructive in the long term. 

For the record:  alcohol is any of a class of chemical compounds having the general formula ROH, where (R) represents an alkyl group and (OH) a hydroxyl group.  It is any of a large number of colorless, flammable organic compounds that contain the hydroxyl group.  Hence, methanol, ethanol, propanol, pentanol, etc, are all alcohols.  The contention on the use of "alcohol" in this thread is a contest between track jargon, wherein "alcohol" refers almost exclusively to methanol, and the broader definition used by chemists.

Time to move on.