Author Topic: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out  (Read 7586 times)

Offline bryanedp9

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6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« on: June 04, 2016, 10:59:30 AM »
So I've got a GMT400 clutch pedal, slave, maybe master cylinder (?) and NV4500. Not sure if it's the early years or later, though, but it's 4WD with TC still on it. I'll swap that for the 2WD stuff I need. I'm hoping I can get away with using the stock driveshaft, but what about..

TH400 crossmember: will it be reusable? It's a crew cab, if that matters.

Will the GMT pedal and clutch cylinders actually be usable or should I look for SM465/stock pedal stuff? Mix and match stock master with GMT400 slave?

Glow plug lighting and/or controls: Am I just looking for a harness and a certain dash light from the junkyard?

Seems like I can use the stock fuel pump and work out a return, along with a regulator and maybe some extra filters. Where should I put it though?

Is the diesel core support/rad different from the 454?

I know speedo and glow plug lights, but what other in-cab stuff will I need to worry about, given I'm ditching the TBI and all? I think I have electronic cruise control. Do I need to convert to vacuum cc? Any other accessories like that?

I know I'll have to deal with the 6.5 turbo routing and the evaporator box.

The two 6.5 blocks I have are from '99 and 2000, and look good under visual inspection. The pumps seem to be DB2-4911 (can't verify one's a 4911 just yet) and there's a lot of the old 6.5 harness chopped off. One has v-belt and the other has serpentine. I got an intercooler out of the deal as well. I'll figure out placement with that a bit later.

Regarding the 6.5 wiring and sensors etc, what should/could I keep? Obviously I'd like to rig up a boost gauge, but getting the other little things (oil pressure,water temp..) shouldn't be any harder, right? As mechanical as I can keep things would be nice, but it is a TBI truck so some things will just be easier to hybridize maybe?

I know I'll have to go to hydroboost. Don't mind that a bit.

Exhaust routing should suck a bit from what I've read.

I'd say that's enough questions for now, but I'm sure I'm forgetting some other queries I've had. Any help is appreciated. Here's what I'm working with:





And here's the parts. The TC is a driver side drop, which leads me to believe it's the newer style NV4500. Is that right or what's going on there?







Offline 1967KaiserM715

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2016, 07:35:21 PM »
External clutch slave puts nv4500 between 91?(first year) and 96 when it went to an internal clutch slave., also it never came in the square body trucks, so you need to keep your transfer( never mind, think you said it was 2wd)

No 6.5 came with v-belts, if you can see if it is a one piece or 2 piece rear main seal, that can confirm it may be a 6.2 that someone turboed, looking at the downpipe, it looks like someone had it in a square body at one point

You need to modify your AC to even think about keeping the turbo in its current location, there is no room for a downpipe with stock AC.

Most of the gauges will work, with just a little wiring to make sure the senders will have the right connections,

Th400 crossmember should be fine to use, however due to the pedal design difference I am almost 100% certain you need to find the pedal set from a square body truck, and same with the hydroboost, the mounting changed(this I know for a fact, I have a gmt400 hydroboost, and the mounting is definitely different.

I can get some more info tomorrow, but that little bit should get the ball rolling


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Offline bryanedp9

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2016, 09:16:11 PM »
Great info. Thanks. You're right on the v-belt thing. The different routing just kinda confused me, but each block is a 6.5 so it seems silly to revert one to v-belts. Plus the owner said it was a GMT Suburban he had it in, but he also thought one was a 6.2 so who knows.

Also, kind of a long shot but it may be cheaper to hack up a stock manifold or two to move the turbo out a bit more like the Banks manifold does.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 09:19:12 PM by bryanedp9 »

Offline Rattler12

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2016, 08:45:32 AM »
You sure that's a NV-4500 ?
83 C-10 shorty 454, 5spd, 3:73 posi

Offline 1967KaiserM715

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2016, 11:28:32 AM »
You sure that's a NV-4500 ?

looks it to me, removable bell housing, and with the beefy looking tail-housing/transfer case adapter it certainly isn't a sm465(the GMT400 trucks did use similiar top covers for both 4 and 5 speed trannys-to move the shifter back, unlike the 73-83(91) square body trucks

@bryanedp9, I would say find a 2wd tranny, and swap the 4wd one to someone who wants it, you will need to rebuild the whole transmission otherwise as the mainshaft needs to be replaced to convert to 2wd, I missed that info last night, and I was going to mention the crossover interference with the front driveshaft, but that is a moot point with a 2wd truck.

the blocks themselves are almost identical, take pics of the date codes, rear of the block right behind the heads(depending on years it could be drivers or passenger side) 6.2 blocks are pretty common, and for someone who isn't knowledgeable can easily be mis-identified, which sounds like the case here, and while the engines are nearly identical, a few small differences can make a build go south quick

you can use the gmt slave with a 85-87(91) master clutch cylinder, but you need to custom make the hydraulic lines

as for glow plugs and lighting, it depends on how stock you want to go, I spent a fair bit of time trying to find the right glow light for my truck, but I have no access to any junkyards with square bodies, the wiring is really simple should you just want a push(momentary) button and a light to let you know the glows are working when you hold the push button, if your looking for a more stock look, this site I believe has all the manuals and wiring diagrams needed to rewire to make it as stock as possible

I would run an extra filter along the frame somewhere, and still use the fuel filter that came with the engine(the one that bolts to the intake, looks like it is pushed off to the side on that engine pic you have posted) regulate fuel to 6-7psi, any more could overcome some of the internals and cause a runaway engine(I think 12 psi was discussed as an absolute max at some point)

frankly I was surprised re-reading, that your truck doesn't have hydro boost brakes already, normally 1 tons always came with them, and with big blocks too.
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Offline Rattler12

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2016, 12:49:27 PM »
The reason I say is I have one in my 83 and it looks nothing like that one.
83 C-10 shorty 454, 5spd, 3:73 posi

Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2016, 02:26:26 PM »
4500

3500

5600

sm465

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Offline bryanedp9

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2016, 06:04:36 AM »
Regarding the casting numbers, I can't say for the heads just yet, but the blocks seem to be 6.5 casting #'s with 1999 and 2000 dates. I thought it might be '89 and '90 at first but I don't believe these castings were available yet then.








Offline Rattler12

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2016, 08:08:11 AM »
4500

3500

5600

sm465



Did they make two different top/shift covers for the 4500? Mine is like your picture as opposed to the other setup
83 C-10 shorty 454, 5spd, 3:73 posi

Offline 1967KaiserM715

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 06:22:38 PM »
4500

3500

5600

sm465



Did they make two different top/shift covers for the 4500? Mine is like your picture as opposed to the other setup
Yes, for two different style shifter mounting, same with the sm465.


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Offline 1967KaiserM715

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2016, 06:35:40 PM »
And those. Are both definitely a 99 and '00 casting, so definitely 6.5, I would at least drop the oil pans, to check the bearing caps, these particular castings did have issues with #2 caps cracking, but are one of the better engine casting for builds(, the whole pros and cons of any engine)


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Offline bryanedp9

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2016, 06:41:35 AM »
Regarding the transmission, I was thinking to either swap whole or parts with someone, or rebuild it to 2wd myself. Never done such, but I have faith.

I'm gonna have to find an engine stand worthy of this weight and try to sort one of the 6.5's out. One was supposed to be running, so I'll start there, but I know I'll need at least some gaskets and seals. Gonna check the crank eventually and the balancers, but I'll have to get familiar with what I'm looking for.

Offline 1967KaiserM715

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2016, 08:06:47 AM »
Can't quite remember, but I think there was at least 1 special tool to rebuild the transmission, plus you need to get the tail housing and mainshaft. At least if you rebuild it you know the parts are good(more people convert the 2wd to 4wd then the other way round)

I would look fir the 1500lb engine stands, with the rear braces and at least 4 legs(points of contact, 6 wheeled ones are better) while the engine only weighs a little over 900 dry, most stands available today are a little flimsy and are also difficult to try and roll the engine over(for doing bottom end stuff, then rolling back over for top end stuff)

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Offline bryanedp9

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2016, 09:34:23 PM »
So I haven't read up on this much, but I have thought to get 4x4 parts and maybe swap in the future. In that case, would I be able to use my floor hump or no? Should I use a divorce mounted TC or try to accommodate the one that's on it? If I gotta hack the floor up it may be going too far, but there's lots of parts trucks around here.

Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: 6.5TD/NV4500 in R3500, 454/400 out
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2016, 10:01:14 PM »
being a 2wd more than likly you will need to chang the gloor pan or body lift. the GM 4500 will be 32 splines. you can adapt the np205 round patter to it easy depending on if its a long shaft you will need a spacer but the short shaft will bolt right up. same deal with the 208 except you dont have to deal with a spacer it will bolt right up. i wouldnt try and use the t case thats on it unless you want to run a dodge or ford front axle. nothing wrong with it but i have all gm parts not dodge or ford. i would look around your parts of town cause the dodge and ford front ends tend to be cheaper around here.
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