I failed emissions and told I have an ILLEGAL engine

[Stewart G Griffin]

Where, and/or how does GM, Arizona, of the Federal gov't define what is a "heavy duty" engine and a "light duty" engine?

i still feel 2 bolt main vs. 4 bolt main has nothing to do with heavy duty or light duty even though yes 4 bolts is more 'heavy duty" than a 2 bolt.  But in this case it was GM that "thought" 4 bolt mains is more heavy duty than 2 bolts.  What if the 4 bolt main 350 never existed?

the LT9 (4 bolt main) 350 was available in 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton for 86.

[ehjorten]

Do you have one of those unfortunate SBC casting numbers that is only a 2 bolt main block?  Most 350 casting numbers of that era could have been either 2 or 4 bolt, so how does the emissions guy even know?  Secondly...how does he know what compression ratio you are running?

[Engineer]

Your government functionary is an idiot.

My 1994 K2500 C6P (8600# GVWR) has an O2 sensor. My 2002 K2500HD 8.1L has O2 sensors. My wife's 2001 K2500HD 6.0L has O2 sensors. My stuff all fits in the heavy duty category. Just sayin'.

[plik]

Your government functionary is an idiot.

My 1994 K2500 C6P (8600# GVWR) has an O2 sensor. My 2002 K2500HD 8.1L has O2 sensors. My wife's 2001 K2500HD 6.0L has O2 sensors. My stuff all fits in the heavy duty category. Just sayin'.

Does your engine have an air pump?

[hatzie]

I'd still like to know what your DLFs source of information is.
Can you get a copy of paperwork that tells EXACTLY, according to them, what is expected to be present on your machine or is your DLF pulling it out of the air.

[plik]

I'd still like to know what your DLFs source of information is.
Can you get a copy of paperwork that tells EXACTLY, according to them, what is expected to be present on your machine or is your DLF pulling it out of the air.

It was purely out of the air. He simply looked at my engine and said, "That looks like a light-duty engine." I asked him what about it makes it light duty. He tried to tell me that heavy-duty engines don't use 02 sensors (not true, as it turns out). He said heavy duty trucks didn't use air pumps ... which is odd because my missing air pump is what made me fail the test at the first testing center (according to their book which listed my heavy-duty suburban as requiring an air pump). I asked him what the difference was between heavy duty and light duty engines. He said, "That's how their certified." And I tried to ask for specifics -- measurable specifics, but he didn't know.

It was frustrating. My young son was with me, or else I would have really yelled at him. And he was so condescending about it all. It really took a lot of inner strength not to yell at him.

So, ya, the small, petty man simply pulled that little diagnosis right out of the air.

Sadly, he was the last stop of a short line of appeal options. So, I can't go over him in any way -- he is the top guy. The king of a very small kingdom.

And the paperwork now says just what he typed, "Visual inspection failed. EPA does not allow light-duty engines in heavy-duty vehicles."

I'll post links to each to show you the comparison between light duty and heavy duty: 

http://paceperformance.com/i-6485019-12568758-5-7l-350cid-lo5-k-1987-1995-chevy-gmc-full-size-trucks-g-van-up-to-7200-gvw.html
http://paceperformance.com/i-6484911-12520270-5-7l-350cid-lo5-k-1987-1995-chevy-gmc-full-size-trucks-g-van-1996-2002-p-van-over-8600-gvw.html

See how their identical in every visual way.

[Irish_Alley]

i wouldnt go in there and say "youre wrong about it needing a O2 sensor, but youre right because its only a 2 bolt main." they have to prove to you as to why its a light duty, by a visual test not taking the oil pan off. like i said before my 91 v3500 9600 gvwr tbi 350 had an O2 and no air pump. i have to double check but im almost sure my engine only had an O2 sensor (and a cat) with cali emissions

[Irish_Alley]

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/engswitch_0.pdf
EPA received many questions regarding the application of this law to a situation where one engine is
removed from a vehicle and another engine is installed in its place. EPA's policy regarding "engine
switching" is covered under the provisions of Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum No. lA
(Attachment 1). This policy states that EPA will not consider any modification to a "certified
configuration" to be a violation of federal law if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions
are not adversely affected. In many cases, proper emission testing according to the Federal Test
Procedure would be necessary to make this determination.

A "certified configuration" is an engine or engine chassis design which has been "certified" (approved)
by EPA prior to the production of vehicles with that design. Generally, the manufacturer submits an
application for certification of the designs of each engine or vehicle it proposes to manufacture prior to
production. The applicaion includest design requirements for all emission related parts, engine
calibrations, and other design parameters for each different type of engine (in heavy-duty vehicles), or
engine chassis combination (in light-duty vehicles). EPA then "certifies" each acceptable design for use,
in vehicles of the upcoming model year.

For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty eng~ne into a different light-duty vehicle by any
person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all
emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of
the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that
emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical
information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle
manufacturer.

For heavy-duty vehicles, the resulting vehicle must contain a heavy-duty engine which is identical to a
certified configura- tion of a heavy-duty engine of the same model year or newer as the year of the
installed engine. Under no circumstances, however, may a heavy-duty engine ever be installed in a
light-duty vehicle.

(The is important, your emissions can match the same year or NEWER) my understanding is if you have a "heavy duty" ecm from a tbi heavy duty motor then you should be ok. I would contact your state's Attorney General's office to see what they say. if they really want to argue that your ecm isnt for a heavy duty engine go get one from a junk yard from a 87  with GVWR of 8501+.

The most common engine replacement involves replacing a gasoline engine in a light-duty vehicle with
another gasoline engine. Another type of engine switching which commonly occurs, however, involves
diesel powered vehicles where the diesel engine is removed and replaced with a gasoline engine.
Applying the above policy, such a replacement is legal only if the resulting engine-chassis configuration
is equivalent to a certified configuration of the same model year or newer as the chassis. If the vehicle
chassis in question has been certified with gasoline, as well as diesel engines(as is common), such a
conversion could be done legally.



B. State Laws
Many states also have statutes or regulations prohibiting tampering in general. Most of these laws
specifically prohibit tampering by individuals. A few specifically prohibit engine switching, using
provisions similar to those stated in EPA's policy. To determine the state law in any given state, the
state's Attorney General's office should be contacted. In addition, many states have state or local
antitampering inspection programs which require a periodic inspection of vehicles in that area, to
determine the integrity of emission control systems. Many programs have established policies for
vehicles which have been engine switched. While EPA does not require these programs to fail engine
switched vehicles which are not in compliance with federal policy, the Agency does strongly
recommend that these programs set their requirements so as to be consistent with the federal law. State
or local programs which pass illegally engine switched vehicles may mislead federally regulated parties
into believing that engine switching is allowed by federal law.

[philo_beddoe]

No state should have emissions on a vehicle that old. Here in MA, 15 years or older-no emissions.

[Engineer]

Your government functionary is an idiot.

My 1994 K2500 C6P (8600# GVWR) has an O2 sensor. My 2002 K2500HD 8.1L has O2 sensors. My wife's 2001 K2500HD 6.0L has O2 sensors. My stuff all fits in the heavy duty category. Just sayin'.

Does your engine have an air pump?

Nope.

[Irish_Alley]

my 94 c1500 tbi 4.3 doesnt have an air pump

[plik]

Thank you so much, everyone. Your help has been tremendous.

Honestly, I was terribly depressed about this at first (thinking I needed to replace the engine), but everyone's help has given me hope and reassurance. :-)

[Stewart G Griffin]

i just talked to my friend in AZ and another thing you could do is register it in another county........say Coconino----no emissions inspections.