What is it that attracts us to these trucks?

[Stewart G Griffin]

Stewart is probably referring to the original Lightnings of 93-95 with their...........

Yes, i was and the only reason i knew about these is because i beat one e.t.-wise in the 1/4 by a few molecules---i ran a 15.4.  But he still won the race because i "broke out."

i don't follow ford so i had no idea there was a second generation of lightining.

2) Even so, getting the truck into the 13 sec bracket is not too hard.
a) the fan-type superchargers would probably be easier/cheaper at this point as compared to a turbo system.

b) there are head options that are not too costly.  More on this later.

c) you may want to go the auxilary overdrive route and go with 4.56 or lower gears.  What trans are you running now?

[eventhorizon66]

Personally I would go with a crate 383 from a well known builder, like Smeding Performance, Awesome Engines or even the GM ZZ383.  That combined with the 700R4 and 3.73 you already have I'm sure will make you grin every time you push the pedal. You bought a crate 260 HP 350? I wouldn't doubt if that's the same or very similar to the stock 215 HP 350's that came in early 90's GM trucks. When they make crate motors, they have higher HP ratings and (I may be wrong, feel free to correct me) that I think is because they don't have to rate them with all the accessories on or they use a different rating system. I would have gone for the 290 HP crate motor at the very least but that's just me.

I just dropped around $2000 after everything was said and done to put new Dart heads and a Comp Cams cam in my truck and I'm a little bummed. But, I'm hoping for big improvements when I swap the 2.76 gear for a 3.42. The 1st gear on a TH350 is quite a bit taller than on a 700R4.

First, I didn't expect to meet my "Lightning" goal with my current engine.  It was a compromise so I could also address other aspects of my truck like brakes, suspension, and little extras rather than spend all my dough on an engine.  I based the hp rating not on GM's rating but on a Chevy High Performance dyno test where they got 265 with no accessories so 240 to 250 is more like it.  And I don't like the 290 crate engine at all.  It is just a goodwrench engine with a $350 camshaft, LOL (which is too big for the low compression).  I can get an appropriately sized cam and lifters at Summit for $90.  Also before I decided on the compromise, I considered a Smeding engine, called them up and wasn't too impressed with guy I talked too, so they're out.  I was actually considering this engine from MAS.  I'm glad I didn't because I could build that same engine myself for less and have the added benefit of the learning experience.

Also as far as your combo goes, its definitely your gearing that's got you bummed out.  What stall are you running?  That cam probably wants something in the 2200-2500 range.

[Captkaos]

Maybe TPI and a rear-mounted turbo.  Now, if only someone were doing something like this so I could have a good reference.

Can't help you with that.  Don't know anyone doing that...

Keep in mind, if you want to pump some power out of one, you need to build it accordingly.

[eventhorizon66]

Keep in mind, if you want to pump some power out of one, you need to build it accordingly.

Nah, I'll just force feed it until I burn a hole in a few pistons or twist a rod into a pretzel.  Then rebuild it.  I want to get my money's worth out of the stock rotating assembly after all.

[Captkaos]

That is what I am doing, but I don't plan to burn a hole through.  I also plan to not push more than 5lbs too.  Key word being "plan".

[choptop]

Keep in mind, if you want to pump some power out of one, you need to build it accordingly.

Nah, I'll just force feed it until I burn a hole in a few pistons or twist a rod into a pretzel.  Then rebuild it.  I want to get my money's worth out of the stock rotating assembly after all.

100 hp shot of nitrous should do it, 200 would be more fun.

[lowbucktruck]

Personally I would go with a crate 383 from a well known builder, like Smeding Performance, Awesome Engines or even the GM ZZ383.  That combined with the 700R4 and 3.73 you already have I'm sure will make you grin every time you push the pedal. You bought a crate 260 HP 350? I wouldn't doubt if that's the same or very similar to the stock 215 HP 350's that came in early 90's GM trucks. When they make crate motors, they have higher HP ratings and (I may be wrong, feel free to correct me) that I think is because they don't have to rate them with all the accessories on or they use a different rating system. I would have gone for the 290 HP crate motor at the very least but that's just me.

I just dropped around $2000 after everything was said and done to put new Dart heads and a Comp Cams cam in my truck and I'm a little bummed. But, I'm hoping for big improvements when I swap the 2.76 gear for a 3.42. The 1st gear on a TH350 is quite a bit taller than on a 700R4.

First, I didn't expect to meet my "Lightning" goal with my current engine.  It was a compromise so I could also address other aspects of my truck like brakes, suspension, and little extras rather than spend all my dough on an engine.  I based the hp rating not on GM's rating but on a Chevy High Performance dyno test where they got 265 with no accessories so 240 to 250 is more like it.  And I don't like the 290 crate engine at all.  It is just a goodwrench engine with a $350 camshaft, LOL (which is too big for the low compression).  I can get an appropriately sized cam and lifters at Summit for $90.  Also before I decided on the compromise, I considered a Smeding engine, called them up and wasn't too impressed with guy I talked too, so they're out.  I was actually considering this engine from MAS.  I'm glad I didn't because I could build that same engine myself for less and have the added benefit of the learning experience.

Also as far as your combo goes, its definitely your gearing that's got you bummed out.  What stall are you running?  That cam probably wants something in the 2200-2500 range.

Ya'll have me thinking twice about buying a crate engine for my project truck (72 C20), if the performance isn't quite up to par.  Maybe I should just take my original longblock 350 to the machine shop and have it redone. 

[Stewart G Griffin]

Lowbuck:
If you can wait, probably within 1 or 2 weeks,  i'm going to run the truck up against the clock in both 1/4 and 0-60 times.  i never really bought the truck for performance---only to go to home depot and to move stuff around.  However, after about 35mph the truck really starts to move.

i feel that the crate 260 is probably best suited for camaros, novas, chevettes etc.  But we'll see what it can do.

Please elaborate on your engine building plans/desires;  Would you rather buy a turn-key engine(with guarantee) or would you rather build your own?

[Captkaos]

If you are wanting just a replacement, the crate motors are fine.  If you want to buy a performance engine, you need to step up to something else.  You can get them to make good power by changing stuff as you go though.

Here is a 8 part series of the Crate 350 build from the stock 239 hp / 324 lb-ft. to a blown 471 hp / 452 lb-ft
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46320_gm_350_crate_engine_build/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46326_gm_350_crate_engine_build_ii/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46359_gm_350_crate_engine_build_iii/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46364_gm_350_crate_engine_build_iv/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46370_gm_350_crate_engine_build_v/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46438_gm_350_crate_engine_build_vi/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46461_gm_350_crate_engine_build_vii/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46467_gm_350_crate_engine_build_viii/index.html

[lowbucktruck]

Lowbuck:
If you can wait, probably within 1 or 2 weeks,  i'm going to run the truck up against the clock in both 1/4 and 0-60 times.  i never really bought the truck for performance---only to go to home depot and to move stuff around.  However, after about 35mph the truck really starts to move.

i feel that the crate 260 is probably best suited for camaros, novas, chevettes etc.  But we'll see what it can do.

Please elaborate on your engine building plans/desires;  Would you rather buy a turn-key engine(with guarantee) or would you rather build your own?

To be honest, my 73 C20 is a bit of a slowpoke under 35mph as well (bone-stock GM Goodwrench 350, Th350 trans, 4:10 gears in a 14-bolt corporate rear axle), but once I put my foot into it and the secondaries open up, she picks up speed fairly quick for a 3/4 ton truck.  Same purpose though, I have it for hauling cargo.

My project goal is to build up a "sleeper", stock-looking 1972 C20 Cheyenne camper special that will be a weekend cruiser, but pack a performance engine and be fairly quick; I want the truck to cruise decent at highway speeds when needed.  I bought the truck at a great deal, without an engine.  She originally was packing a 350 longblock.  Would prefer to have an engine built right by a pro, with a guarantee/warranty.  I can rebuild a motor to stock specs okay, but time is a factor and I don't have shop space at home.  My project truck is sitting at a shop now, waiting on a motor.  I have been talking to a local machine shop and got some quotes.  I had picked up a 350 longblock (original) out of a guy's parts truck (same vintage, 1972 C10) but it is worn out and needs a complete rebuild.

I am now considering going the 383 longblock route, backed with a 700R4 transmission.  I have to decide on a game plan soon.  Will have to consider my project truck's gearing as well (same 14-bolt corporate axles, not sure what gear ratio).

[lowbucktruck]

If you are wanting just a replacement, the crate motors are fine.  If you want to buy a performance engine, you need to step up to something else.  You can get them to make good power by changing stuff as you go though.

Here is a 8 part series of the Crate 350 build from the stock 239 hp / 324 lb-ft. to a blown 471 hp / 452 lb-ft
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46320_gm_350_crate_engine_build/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46326_gm_350_crate_engine_build_ii/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46359_gm_350_crate_engine_build_iii/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46364_gm_350_crate_engine_build_iv/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46370_gm_350_crate_engine_build_v/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46438_gm_350_crate_engine_build_vi/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46461_gm_350_crate_engine_build_vii/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46467_gm_350_crate_engine_build_viii/index.html

Thanks for that, this is a good article (I have read it before).  One of the reasons I still run a Goodwrench 350 motor in my beater '73 is that my dad loved those engines and considered them very good starting points for a build-up.  Dad built and ran a Goodwrench 350 in his 1975 Jimmy and that rig was fast on the take-off!  I believe it had 3:73 gears, but not certain.

"The Goodwrench 350 is unquestionably bread-and-butter basic. While all production small-blocks have employed a one-piece rear-main seal design since 1986, the Goodwrench 350 is assembled in Mexico and retains the classic two-piece pre-’86 design. This makes it an excellent choice for a basic hot rod motor for all pre-’86 cars since you don’t have to purchase a new flexplate or flywheel.

Starting with a four-bolt main cap block, the 350 employs a standard cast crank and cast-aluminum flat-top pistons with ductile-iron 5/64-inch rings. Chevy claims the compression is a wheezy 8.1:1, but after the test was over, we measured everything and came up with a slightly better 8.4:1. The good news with this low compression is that the Goodwrench engine should even run on 87-octane gas. The downside is that this low compression certainly sacrifices power."

[eventhorizon66]

I based my decision partially on these articles as well.  They are good motors if what you want is stock for now and to soup it up down the road.  But I think if you want a performance motor now, either build it yourself, find a reputable local builder, or start with a decent crate.  I'd probably be happier now with a GMPP 350HO crate.  Even if that turns out not to be enough power, you've still got the desirable vortec heads to work with.

[lowbucktruck]

I based my decision partially on these articles as well.  They are good motors if what you want is stock for now and to soup it up down the road.  But I think if you want a performance motor now, either build it yourself, find a reputable local builder, or start with a decent crate.  I'd probably be happier now with a GMPP 350HO crate.  Even if that turns out not to be enough power, you've still got the desirable vortec heads to work with.

I think you are missing the point... that the GM Goodwrench 350 can be a good crate motor to start with; swap out cam, install Vortec heads, and drive the heck out of it without killing your wallet.

[eventhorizon66]

I think you are missing the point... that the GM Goodwrench 350 can be a good crate motor to start with; swap out cam, install Vortec heads, and drive the heck out of it without killing your wallet.

No, I get it.  The point I was trying to make is if I were and in your shoes and looking for a mild performance motor without "shop space at home" preferring "an engine built by a pro with a guarantee/warranty" and where "time is a factor."  The 350HO is the clear winner over the Goodwrench.

[Stewart G Griffin]

Actually, this is a good post in that it brings to light the question, "which order should you modify the engine for more power."

i think most people can agree that headers and dual exhaust would be a good first step due to the added power and (usually)improved mpg and relatively low cost.

But what next?  For instance, i think these heads:
http://www.araoengineering.com/Chevy/chevysmb.htm

And this induction system:
http://www.inglese.com/Products/ChevySmallBlock.asp

would be the ultimate street engine for me.

But what about all the steps in between?

We can all probably agree that if the air is under pressure (turbo or supercharger) and the fuel is under pressure---whether thru mechanical or electronic fuel injection (electronic is probably better) that these would be the ultimate, end-of-the-line for the engine at least for the air and fuel systems.

However, what are the ultimate for all the other systems in the engine and what is the best order to modify them in?

My proposed list based on my knowledge of engines:
Let's assume we are starting with a stock engine such as the crate 260:
1) headers and dual exhaust
2) balancing and blueprinting (it's like a house, start with the foundation?)
3) The cam is a relatively cheap and easy modification to make more power, so we should do that next.  But while we're at it, we should go roller lifters.
4) Heads: depending on budget either re-work existing heads or upgrade.
5) Induction
6) ?