73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Projects Posts (NOT VEHICLES) => Topic started by: HAULIN IT on May 17, 2009, 01:48:46 am
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Here's my latest project...Some of the Water pump won't apply to most of you, but I thought I would share my fan findings. It may not be the absolute best fan set-up, but it's a really good fit (with some home-made bracket/shroud) for our trucks. I found this by pretty much an accident (no pun intended). It is from a '99 Seville. I brought it home, having a couple broken spokes of the shroud from a wreck & found as I was figuring...just how well it fits & is sized well. I did remove some irregular "growths" from the shroud, like a indent (in the wrong place) for the upper rad hose & a molded in triangle hose holder & some other unneeded molded in tabs/holders.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/FANWATERPUMP026.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/FANWATERPUMP024.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/FANWATERPUMP025.jpg)
Here are a couple in the fitting stages
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/FANWATERPUMP016.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/FANWATERPUMP013.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/FANWATERPUMP014.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/FANWATERPUMP015.jpg)
A trip to the salvage yard netted the plugs & wiring all the way to the firewall, another Buick or Olds donated a relay/fusible link set-up that I ran from the distribution block above the master cylinder. I have a variable speed controller to install after the initial testing. The Caddy had Two 30 amp fuses on the fans, so it appears they have some draw, I will test & report on said amount.
Here is a couple shots of the home-made alternator bracket & modified power steering bracket
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/FANWATERPUMP023.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/FANWATERPUMP009.jpg)
Installed for test-fit & belt lengths... That is a small block Chevy water pump adapted to the Olds engine
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/FANWATERPUMP001.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/FANWATERPUMP002.jpg)
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Did you use the radiator and upper support form the caddy too? Looks like it fit nice. What kind of control are you going to use?
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Vile, It's the same radiator that I put in when the truck was built...a Aluminum/plastic tall replacement for our trucks. The top support is Chevy truck also, originally I bought the radiator, top plate & shroud for a big block truck.
What I did was start with a 2'x3' sheet of 16ga metal & cut out the center hole, folded lips on it, ect. The top area is a piece of light angle iron cut to match the Chevy top plate. The sides have a piece of 1/2" square tubing for support & to close off the shroud...basically I laid the original shroud down on the metal & marked the mounting holes & tank width, then laid the Caddy fan assy. on & figured what was needed to mount it where it fit & went from there. I thought I had a picture or Two of the metal part separate, but I didn't find them. The Black area in the photo is metal, the Gray is the Caddy shroud. I painted the other side of the Caddy shroud so it all looked the same.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/FANWATERPUMP025.jpg)
The controller I got is a Flex a lite pt# 31163, It has some nice features...comes on "soft start" & ramps up, then stays on after the Ign. is shut off until the sensor reads the temp. is back down. I'm going to use it to trigger a relay to allow the water pump to run also until the temp. is down, then shut off.
I'll post the findings of the "amp test" & final assembly soon. Lorne
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Very cool, Lorne! In the recent issue of Hot Rod where they fix up a 73 2wd stepside, they found a dual-fan Flex-a-lite setup I believe that apparently fit the stock rad pretty much perfectly. Aftermarket dual-fan setups are a heck of a lot more expensive than a junkyard OEM find though.
Something weird I experienced: when reading your text on your last post, the blades on the two fans start to spin very slowly when looking at them with your peripheral vision as I read the text left to right. Trippy! :o
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Sux, I did see that article. Those are 12" fans & way the shroud is (very flat) & installed, it leaves allot of surface area not having air pulled across it. Also I personally am not a fan of their attaching method (those plastic ties through the core) with the weight & vibration of the fans, could lead to a need for radiator repairs. A bracket/mounting plate of some sort would be better, it leaves the radiator to "float" on the rubber cushions & the fan weight/vibration is left to the rad. support. It may not cause a problem this week or next...maybe never, but still not the way to go.
On a side note, I saw in one of the pictures that they have the rear shocks mounted upside down. Who knows maybe they know something Rancho, Calvert & the rest of us don't ;) It's a shame to see things like that fan install, the shocks (maybe) & autobody repairs (since I do that), because when you read something that you don't know much about, you have to be leary that there are flaws in that article/advice also. We, as readers have to keep in mind at all times that those magazines/TV shows are "paid advertisements" for whoever is paying to advertise with them...Sometimes it's the "right" answer & sometimes it's just the one you are sopposed to hear for someone else's benefit. My Two Cents, Lorne
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I hear you about being leery of the validity and accuracy of magazine articles. Usually a person just takes them at their word and that they are experienced and know what they are doing. Rarely do they publish mistakes they made, things they broke, or problems that surface months down the road from improper installation. Sometimes on things I know a little bit about (like car audio as an example), I'll see errors printed and just shake my head at the misinformation someone else is reading. I dig your fan install and if I happen upon a late model Caddy at the boneyard, I'll for sure have a look at their fan setup.
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I found the pic's of the fan bracket in bare metal (they were on another disc for some reason). This should make it a little clearer as to what was done. Lorne
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/ElecFanSetupBefore2.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/ElecFansFrame.jpg)
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1) Could we get a break-down of all the parts nessesary, specifically part #'s?
2) i think the main thing is an exact, step-by-step instructional on how to install electric fans the right(safe) way. Specifically, the whole fuse/relay issue, so as to prevent a fire.
3) Why again, did you have to fabricate an alternator mount?
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3) Why again, did you have to fabricate an alternator mount?
Electric water pumps don't have provisions for the alternator bracket like the stock pumps do.
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2) i think the main thing is an exact, step-by-step instructional on how to install electric fans the right(safe) way. Specifically, the whole fuse/relay issue, so as to prevent a fire.
Look at the schematic in my electric fan install
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you can buy a alternator bracket that bolts on using the water pump bolts, I beleive moroso makes it..but it's not cheap though
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Nice work Lorne. I like what you did with the waterpump.
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Is this truck daily driven? I have wanted to do an electric water pump for my truck, which will be set up to be a daily driver.
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Skunk, Absolutely! I took the family out to supper last night in it, we drive it virtually every day when the weather is nice. NEVER overheats, goes down the road around 160*. We just came back from a week long trip where we trailered it to Muncie In. then drove it over 1100 miles in a circle, racing it every day...ending up back in Muncie on Friday. This was mostly regular back roads through towns, Amish buggies, old guys in rocking chairs at the gas station, ect. & some (a few hours) freeway driving @ over 70mph. You can check out my other post & then go to the 1320video link...also the January issue of Hot Rod is to have the coverage in it.
However, I wouldn't bother doing for a regular, daily driven (not raced vehicle) I just don't see the need, nothing really wrong with the stock set-up. The main reason I went with the electric was to be able to circulate the coolant between runs at the track. My Two cents, Lorne
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=13608.0
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Well, I saw some TV show (I think it was "Horsepower") where they used an electric water pump on a daily driven camaro to raise the fuel mileage. They did a few other things too, but that was part of their plan. And it worked out by giving the car 2.2 MPG after all the little things they did. So I think it might be worth it, say when the mechanical water pump I have now finally dies.
But have you had to put a bigger alternator on, now that you have a lot more electrical stuff running on your truck?
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I don't see how an electric water pump can increase fuel economy (unless you use solar panels on the roof to run the pump :P). Any load removed by eliminating the mechanical pump will be transferred to increased load at the alternator. So all you've done is decrease reliabilty. Does anyone (other than Horsepower TV as they are NOT a trustworthy sorce of info) have any evidence to the contrary? The only reasons I can see one might want an electric water pump is to keep cool between runs (as Lorne said) and to keep cool at sustained idling/low rpm (cruising at car shows).
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If the electric motor is more efficient than the mechanical belt driven pump, then there is some energy to be saved there. However small it may be. All they did to the camaro on the show was the water pump, a fuel pressure regulator, a TBI spacer, flow through mufflers, and a better air filter intake setup. I think it was one of those K&N ones you can buy. So even if it only helps 1.003%, what's the harm in buying an electric as a replacement after the mechanical finally dies? At least then it would be more justifiable. And all those little percentages finally stack up to be a worthwhile percentage.
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Without knowing any more than that, I'm sure all the mpg gains on that Camaro came from the exhaust and the intake (those things increase efficiency by reducing pumping losses). Did they also perform a tune-up that some how wasn't credited for any additional mpg? It is not just a matter of the electric motor being more efficient than the mechanical water pump. Consider the whole system. A mechanical pump is as simple as the pump, two pulleys, and a belt. The electric pump includes an electric motor, a pump, wiring, and an alternator (which includes at least two pulleys and a belt). My bet is the electric system will consume more power to pump the same gpm of coolant. On this note, I'd say it is possible to increase efficiency by reducing the amount of coolant gpm to the absolute minimum required by the engine, but this practice would be risky for obvious reasons.
The "harm" in an electric pump is increased cost, reduced reliability, and increased complexity. IMO, the gain is nothing for a daily driven street car.