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General Site Info => General Discussion => Topic started by: project85 on March 24, 2011, 04:13:58 pm
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Is there anyone on here from NH that works in NH? Are you in a union, fire, police, teacher, state worker? The senate made a bill that I believe the house amended that will do away with collective bargaining all together in NH. This is what happened in wisconsin and other out west states. I'm a firefighter, and after 5years of duty the house/senate is dramaticaLly changing my retirement and now will basically desolve my union contract with my town. This is a really big deal for everyone in the state. This was done in a NON-PUBLIC SESSION. I am hoping there is some political types on here from NH that will read this and understand the severity of what is going on, and call your senator or house rep and tell them how you feel.
Sorry for the soap box. Thank you for your time
Bill
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No comment on that.
I will tell you that I am not a fan of the union that I was in. I believe they are out for themselves financially, politically motivated, and did not do right by the people that they were supposed to be standing behind. I know that there must be good unions and your point was about pensions and benefits.
Ok maybe one comment but I would rather leave my political views off this forum. I think that any existing contracts should be honored and then new employees should have a contract that spells out the new pension and benefit policies.
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Their are excellant arguents for both sides of this argument.
Ultimately it should come down weather the workers have the right to unionize or not (based on the constitution)and not so much the consequences of that decision.
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It has been my feeling that people need to spend as much time sacrificing in their lives to better themselves to the point where they are non reliant on unions, the government, or any other power to control their income and their futures. In fact I know I work much harder and longer hours than any union worker I know, yet I have no pension, paid sick days, maximum benefits, etc etc. The more I want the harder I have to work. I think that's how it should be for everyone. I've been working full time since I was 16, put myself through school and have been paying my own way ever since. I was raised by my mother who came here from Italy not knowing a word of English, worked her tail off and still does to this day. I think unions are unfair and promote greed. Sorry - not a union fan.
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I am sorry this affects you in a negative way but I am with vile on this.
Unions did allot of good when they were first established, they helped keep the little man from being abused, and exploited by the wealthy business owners etc. Now they are the ones that are abusing the power they have, and exploiting for their own financial gain.
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I believe in what Vile and Thirsty say. I hate unions--if one wants better pay, get a better education or get skilled in a lucrative occupation. However, once someone has spent 20 years in a profession, as I have as a deputy sheriff, and have worked in the same place because of the pension benefit--which is the only reason i am there and have been there for two decades, it is unfair to wipe that all away. This pension is state law and was the agreement when I began working there. Hence, I will have wasted 20 years of my life with a simple law change if they choose. I am educated and could have been making more money elsewhere in the private sector and contributed heavily in a 401k, but, because of the lower salary today, I cannot contribute as much as I'd like and raise a family. So, I count on my pension. I am in it for the money I will receive after retirement. To keep good workers on board, the benefits need to be there. Take those benefits away and your quality of workers go down the tubes.
We have no union. As an appointed deputy by a constitutional officer, sheriff, I am not employed, but, appointed. We have no right in Va for unionizing in my line of work. Let me keep what I have been promised for 20 yrs and I'm fine and won't care one bit. That is why I am doing what I am doing.
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right now our biggest problem is they want to
1. change the retirement system, so change the promise they made to us the day we took our jobs (firefighter and police)
2. by taking the right to have a collective bargain unit in NH. unitil is a has a CBA, that would mean they could like our town, fire a person and hire someone for half price. we would have no more rights then a 16 y/o pumping gas. which is crazy to me. there would be no more unions period in NH. if the patriots were in NH the players would have to decertify like they did, but the state wouldn't alow it. this is gonna mess up our school systems. teachers will be in the same position we are being put in. all of this has been done in a non-public session by newly seated politicians that have been in office for 3 months. it took them 6 minutes to take collective bargaining away from 60,000 workers.
i understand the not being big on unions. i wasn't until i became a firefighter. but union workers are middle class people. something like this is an attack on working middle class people. i'm bias because i could possibly lose my job in the next few months to someone willing to work for half price. which is a big problem in this country aka all these companies moving to mexico.
also we tried to change the retirement rules for only new hires coming through the door and increase our current employee contribution from 9.3% to 11.8% and the senate/house still wanted these changes.
as far as sacrificing to better themselves that is exactly what i am getting at. i personally, went to school for 1 year off and on to get my firefighting stuff done, then went to school for 18months to become a paramedic. i've worked my job full time for 5 years, now when the state allows the union busting, the town manager/selectman in our town can hire someone with less qualifications to do the work for half price, or i must take a huge pay cut to keep a job i love, and the people who will suffer the most will be the unknowing public that is getting screwed. plus we have guys with 20 years of service who must now retire early and are being forced out due to how bad the system is gonna be changed.
again sorry for the rant.
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unions were important at one point in history. However, since congress stepped in and passed such things as the 40 hour work week and OSHA and FLSA (Federal Labor Standards ACts) ect...the only thing unions do is push jobs overseas. If your employer is unsafe or abusing power and neglecting FLSA, well, in every city there are attorneys that specialize in punitive rewards against employers. Unions have no purpose.
If you are a public servant, your jurisdiction will not pay people minimum wage, becasue they dont want to spend $40,000 training you for you to leave tomorrow to work at McDonalds. Jurisdictions know that they must pay accordingly so as not to have such a high turnover rate more money goes to training fire, police, etc or have poor workers where lawsuits of millions are constantly paid out. That's why we have had enticing pensions...to keep people there more than 5 years. The longer one works there, the more of a pension they have---they dont have to be trained again and again like new employees would.
It's called free market.
However, as I posted earlier, you cannot renig on what has been in writing a benefit to a 20 year veteran of the force. We are not there for our day to day salary. We are there because of tomorrow's check after retirement.
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I believe in what Vile and Thirsty say. I hate unions--if one wants better pay, get a better education or get skilled in a lucrative occupation. However, once someone has spent 20 years in a profession, as I have as a deputy sheriff, and have worked in the same place because of the pension benefit--which is the only reason i am there and have been there for two decades, it is unfair to wipe that all away. This pension is state law and was the agreement when I began working there. Hence, I will have wasted 20 years of my life with a simple law change if they choose. I am educated and could have been making more money elsewhere in the private sector and contributed heavily in a 401k, but, because of the lower salary today, I cannot contribute as much as I'd like and raise a family. So, I count on my pension. I am in it for the money I will receive after retirement. To keep good workers on board, the benefits need to be there. Take those benefits away and your quality of workers go down the tubes.
We have no union. As an appointed deputy by a constitutional officer, sheriff, I am not employed, but, appointed. We have no right in Va for unionizing in my line of work. Let me keep what I have been promised for 20 yrs and I'm fine and won't care one bit. That is why I am doing what I am doing.
i left a good land surveying gig to become a firefighter, to help people and because it had a great retirement. now 5 years later they want to completly change what i was told my first day on the job. losing the collective bargaining agreement isn't the same as just having a union. if the state takes the CBA away, it will be just like you said you will get a lower quality of person doing the work for less money, we in NH are concerned with public saftey, aka fire, police, highway/state workers, plus the teachers teaching our kids. it is just most CBA are with unions. if they remove our collective bargaining rights i will still be in my local union and our international union, it won't mean much.
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I am sorry this affects you in a negative way but I am with vile on this.
Unions did allot of good when they were first established, they helped keep the little man from being abused, and exploited by the wealthy business owners etc. Now they are the ones that are abusing the power they have, and exploiting for their own financial gain.
i can kinda agree but, i don't think our fire unions abuse any power. we definetly look out for ourselves and try to better our proffession. but when i was land surveying the state land surveying board were doing things to keep the exclusiveness of becoming a licensed land surveyor. they worked to better there own profession and to increase the wages of land surveyors. there is still no land surveying union but they do do some of the same types of things.
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Growing up in a union household, CWA local whichever in norcross ga, I can say from that that they took my dads dues and never not once paid him when they were supposed to. he picketed one time for 3 months straight and we never got a dime they were supposed to pay us, but you MUST picket, which means a part time job at best and God forbid you try to cross the picket line to feed your starving family because they will bash your car to pieces, snatch you out of it and beat you with chains. I saw that when I was four. My dad talked me into joining when I was like 16 and I didn't see one benefit the whole time, except one time the paychecks were 7 hours late, and the instant they were late, we stopped work and got paid DOUBLE-Time until they arrived. I liked the money there, but something just seemed wrong about that. I quit the job because I hated the Jerks I had to work with, it's like because your a journeyman your better than me. well, they ain't and I aint getting treated like that for those meager benefits. So yesa, I can say I hate CWA and I've earned that right. I just hope the firefighters unions don't work just like CWA does.... God help you if they do man.
Also about 5 years ago they took my dads retirement, (he'd been there 35 years) and told him they were cutting it down to 1/4 what they said or he could take $40k and retire early.
As far as I can tell, if you want a retirement, you need to do it on your own with stocks or etc. because ANY entity out there can offer you a retirement and change their minds later whenever it suits them.
Right now in one of the GA state workers unions, they changed it to where when the retiree dies, instead of his widow getting the rest of his earned entitled to retirement, they take it and put it back in the state coffers.
Unions have outlived their usefulness and I'll tell you why, its because now we're in the age of entitlement, (I'm NOT saying this is you) and those people have wrung the system dry.
The idea of unions is GREAT, the implementation has much to be desired though. It's run by men, so it's only a matter of time anyway.
I wish you Good Luck with it!
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I think if you had a contract stating you should get ABC XYZ then they should honor that. If they're not it's time to file a class action lawsuit. I think most of us here on this site represent middle class working people otherwise this would be a Lamborghini website. Maybe now is a good time to reconsider serving as a fireman, there are many other jobs/careers that will help people and maybe even on a much higher level for you but to be honest you shouldn't choose your profession based on a promise of a retirement pension.
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quite a heated topic :o
As far as I can tell, if you want a retirement, you need to do it on your own with stocks or etc. because ANY entity out there can offer you a retirement and change their minds later whenever it suits them
The VRS, Va. Retirement System, does just that. All public employees who subscribe to the VRS, as part of our benefit, gets a percentage of our salary taken out and put into stocks, bonds, etc...The VRS has done so well over the years and is the only thing that hasn't been destroyed by policitians, that, now, it is being destroyed by politicians...by them dipping their hands in this fund to fund other projects within the state. Our governor just took $500 million from our (teachers, police, fire, DOT, etcl) retirements to spend on luring businesses here to benefit the private sector. That is our retirement he just dipped his hands into. Why are teachers, police and fire paying more than their share to finance a gamble to lure other employers here? The governor does not have to pay back our retirement fund. That is simply not right.
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quite a heated topic :o
Did I miss something? As long as everyone is respectful to each other when voicing their thoughts this thread isn't a problem.
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the state just took 89million out of our retiree insurance fund to help some other fund. and in the NHRS our money is put into money markets and such. the states is messing with our retirement not our unions. our unions are fighting for the workers about to lose what they were promised.
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heated was a wrong word....i should've said, such a passionate topic. Sorry. It is quite opinionated, which is good to see all these sides and the points made.
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I think if you had a contract stating you should get ABC XYZ then they should honor that. If they're not it's time to file a class action lawsuit. I think most of us here on this site represent middle class working people otherwise this would be a Lamborghini website. Maybe now is a good time to reconsider serving as a fireman, there are many other jobs/careers that will help people and maybe even on a much higher level for you but to be honest you shouldn't choose your profession based on a promise of a retirement pension.
we are told when we start what all the rules are to retire. now the state wants to change the rules midstream. honestly i think that when you take a job the retirement is a huge thing to consider. to not factor it in to your assessment is a dis-service to yourself. and i honestly could not think of a better and more fufilling job then as a firefighter/emt. everyday you have an oppurtunity to help someone or to possibly save a life. i love it and would not leave even if they removed the retirment all-together, just no one wants to lose a right, whether its a retirement or a CBA right.
this is a thread to a wisconsin paper. http://www.guilfordian.com/world-nation/protesters-fight-anti-union-law-in-wisconsin-1.2123272 the section that says "In 30 minutes, 18 state senators undid 50 years of civil rights in Wisconsin," said Mark Miller, the leader of the Senate Democrats, to The New York Times. "Their disrespect for the people of Wisconsin and their rights is an outrage that will never be forgotten."
this is what is happening to us in NH and i personally do not think john q public knows what the elected officials are doing.
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I have always believed in free market. That is what made this country great.
That said, I feel local governments will be making things worse in the long run.
I will not recommend anyone enter public servitude in the future. If gov'ts continue to reduce benefits and pay, the public at large will see the effects quickly. You think the wait in line now is long to get vehicle registrations and such, or getting a business license or building permit, or paying local taxes.
With these cuts, there will be no reason for workers to remain working in the same area for long periods of time. More money will be needed to train employees, because of the turnover rates. Litigation lawsuits will increase dramatically because there will always be a high number of "rookies" on fire and police departments, and the lack of seasoned veterans to guide them will not be there. These are areas that cannot afford less experience (ems, fire, police) where life decisions are made instantly everyday.
I am afraid the politicians will only look at current, tangible expenditures...staff salaries and pension payouts and not see other factors mentioned above. In the long run everyone suffers. Salaries will then start to increase because of this and this cycle will start all over again. All this can be prevented by understanding that lower salaries and much reduced benefits are not the answer when it comes to saving money. Free market will work again, and benefits to entice people to stay longer will be enacted, just like they were decades ago, which is why we have benefits.
Political memories are short.
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I have always believed in free market. That is what made this country great.
That said, I feel local governments will be making things worse in the long run.
I will not recommend anyone enter public servitude in the future. If gov'ts continue to reduce benefits and pay, the public at large will see the effects quickly. There will be no reason to remain working in the same area for long periods of time. More money will be needed to train employees, because of the turnover rates. Litigation lawsuits will increase dramatically because there will always be a high number of "rookies" on fire and police departments, and the lack of seasoned veterans to guide them will not be there. These are areas that cannot afford less experience (ems, fire, police) where life decisions are made instantly everyday.
I am afraid the politicians will only look at current, tangible expenditures...staff salaries and pension payouts and not see other factors mentioned above. In the long run everyone suffers. Salaries will then start to increase because of this and this cycle will start all over again. All this can be prevented by understanding that lower salaries and much reduced benefits are not the answer.
everyone knows you get what you pay for. if you buy oem parts you pay alittle more but they fit better, you by cheap stuff your stuck doing fab work.
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We're going though it right now in Ohio. My family has several educators in it and I drive a school bus. So, I have a vested interest. I've worked in both union and non union shops. It's not so much about the union, but doing what's right on both sides. They didn't even give anyone a chance to talk about concessions, just ramrodded this through the system. Will likely end up on the ballot here this fall. Our Governor is now privatizing the prison system. Do you think you will be able to say with certainty that a minimum wage firefighter, law enforcement officer, or prison guard will be as willing to step into harm's way? I don't want to bet my family's safety on it!
The governor's in those states are finding a way to legally steal what has been earned and negotiated as fair and equitable for many years. In our case, an entire retirement plan might get flushed down the toilet. Most folks do not take into account that those employees have a set apart system that does not include social security. What they retire, the government retirement is all they will get. We have went in just a few short years from requiring our educators (at their own expense largely) to be "highly qualified" to being stripped of fair compensation. That translates into six years of mandatory education beyond high school. Going back to a 20,000 paycheck and no benefits for an investment like that, let alone the responsibility teacher, firefighters, and policemen have? Talking to my daughter, on the other side of her career, I hear and understand what she has to say when she says there would be no reason to stay in this state should this pass. In fact, I think there will be a giant sucking sound like a vacuum when many of our younger, gifted educators, firefighters, police, etc leave either the state or their profession. It saddens me to think of the potential we would drive out of our educational system. Who will shape our leaders then? Minimum wage educators? Why would someone even consider 6 years of college for that kind of return? Businessmen know that nothing in this world is free and you get what you pay for. Ask any professional or business person if they are willing to consistently give away their services. We all know the answer to this one. Even as a bus driver, I would not be willing to give up wages and benefits for the responsibility that I am asked to assume. Flipping burgers will pay the same. Someone else can be responsible to handle the issues, training, and seeing to it that hundreds of someone else's kids are delivered safely each day. As it stands, if you're in any of these fields for the money, you're in the wrong profession. Stripping away what we have now will only make the decision easy. This infuriates me to think that our government would simply try to pass along the burden of what they have created onto the backs of people who have sacrificed their lives to make a difference in this world. In no other professions (except perhaps ministry) will you find folks who work harder and have more important responsibilities than these. Today, I'm not so proud to call myself a Republican. Maybe a good job will open up in one of our new casinos.
Scott
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I read some interesting stats the other day. The article said there were currently 5 states that have said collective bargaining for educators is illegal. Those five states have the some of the lowest SAT scores in the country. The highest ranking among them was 39th. How do we compete in a global marketplace with scores like these?
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promiskeeper that was well said. and in NH we are forced to pay into the NHRS. we will not get social security unless we have a side job for 10 quarters. now they are changing something they force us to be apart of. the ramrodding is exactly whats happening here. all these really bad things for us have been amendments to bills that no one really hears. it has been done over 4 weeks. they even put removing the CBA stuff in afinancial bill so that the govener's veto power is removed. dirty trick. they even started off trying to reduce our retired guys pensions 20%. a guy on a fixed income that has already put his 20-30 years in, and they wanted him to take a 20% pay cut. and it is a republican majority in the house ans senate right now. they will not pass gambling in our state. they would rather ruin it this way.
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I read some interesting stats the other day. The article said there were currently 5 states that have said collective bargaining for educators is illegal. Those five states have the some of the lowest SAT scores in the country. The highest ranking among them was 39th. How do we compete in a global marketplace with scores like these?
you get what you pay for. Are our children, who will make up our future, worth the risk?
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One thing missing from this....
There are MANY states that have NO CBA for their public employees.
In those states, the employees do BETTER than in Unionized states.
As for your pension, coupla things-1) it was a p0nzi scheme based on taxes paid in by the tax payer- It never existed. 2) now the public sector is getting what the private sector got and has had for 20 years. 3.) NOTHING is guaranteed, so whoever "guaranteed" anything to you lied, and you believed the lie.
Yes, it sucks.
Life is tough, get a helmet.
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they even put removing the CBA stuff in afinancial bill so that the govener's veto power is removed. dirty trick.
Ah, but think of it this way. The governor probably likes that it was done this way, making it appear he had no choice. Political Games.
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it was a p0nzi scheme based on taxes paid in by the tax payer- It never existed.
not quite right. Depends on the state I assume, but, state and local workers pay their percentage of their salary into the respective retirement system. It was set up this way so our weekly paychecks wouldn't be as much, but, our future was taken care of. This is real money. What I pay into it benefits those who have already retired. There will be more state, county workers in the future. What they pay into it will pay my way when I'm retired. That is, until these politicians saw how lucrative it is and they dip their hands in it and it disappears on other projects that benefit everyone else. This system was the healthiest of all state funds and the politicians salivated over it.
now the public sector is getting what the private sector got and has had for 20 years
The private sector salaries, as a whole, are usually higher. The enticement of gov't jobs is the benefits, not the salary. And, suppose a private sector worker paid 8% of their salary into a 401k and then the CEO of their company all of the sudden says, "No, I think I am going to take those investments away--all of it--even though it isn't mine to take" What would yo then say?
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they even put removing the CBA stuff in afinancial bill so that the govener's veto power is removed. dirty trick.
Ah, but think of it this way. The governor probably likes that it was done this way, making it appear he had no choice. Political Games.
yes and no he is in his last term so he has nothing really to lose but he will save face if the blood in't on his hands.
we pay 9.3% of our salary into our retirement (firefighter & police) the state pays 35% (they have for 37 years, there choice way back when, we used to have a municipal retirment system) the employer pays 14% now (they paid 4% in the good economic times, we tried to make the state make the towns pay the same as us but they never did, part of the reason it is surposedly going broke)
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not quite right. Depends on the state I assume, but, state and local workers pay their percentage of their salary into the respective retirement system. It was set up this way so our weekly paychecks wouldn't be as much, but, our future was taken care of.
You paid a small percentage, with the rest coming from tax revenue. As long as the tax base is there, you are fine....If not, no money goes in. This is the same issue with Social security. For each person receiving, there needs to be 10 contributing.... Classic Ponzi schemes...
The private sector salaries, as a whole, are usually higher. The enticement of gov't jobs is the benefits, not the salary. And, suppose a private sector worker paid 8% of their salary into a 401k and then the CEO of their company all of the sudden says, "No, I think I am going to take those investments away--all of it--even though it isn't mine to take" What would yo then say?
1- Not true at all. I have a friend in WI who is in the same boat. She is in the teachers union. she is a janitor (maintenance engineer) After 12 years, she gets 40 PAID days off a year. Her pension (after 20) is 1.2 million dollars. She makes almost 75K a year. Any other janitor in the private sector is lucky to make 35K a year. Another friend works in a VA hospital in DE. She makes almost twice the money that she would make in a "private" hospital.....
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She is in the teachers union.
I said i hate unions. This is atypical where a janitor has 1.2 million for retirement. Not my case. What i stated is my case.
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If people get together and vote to form a union, I believe that is their constitutional right. I don't have to agree with it.
I don't agree with flag burning either. However, I would proudly stand in the way of any govt official trying to stop the protestor from doing so.
Because these are govt workers it creates a gray area. These are special essential functions to a society. (what do you do when a police dept goes on strike and so on.) I don't know what the right answer is and that is why we elect lawmakers to figure this stuff out.
I believe in due process and would prefer they try that method instead of cramming it through or attaching it to a state budget. Perhaps they could use the constitution as a guide instead of looking for a loophole.
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not quite right. Depends on the state I assume, but, state and local workers pay their percentage of their salary into the respective retirement system. It was set up this way so our weekly paychecks wouldn't be as much, but, our future was taken care of. This is real money. What I pay into it benefits those who have already retired. There will be more state, county workers in the future. What they pay into it will pay my way when I'm retired. That is, until these politicians saw how lucrative it is and they dip their hands in it and it disappears on other projects that benefit everyone else. This system was the healthiest of all state funds and the politicians salivated over it.
The money you pay in, does not, and never has gone to a "big bank account". You pay out now (along with the taxpayer), for those ALREADY retired....
And when you retire, those working (and the taxpayer) pays your retirement.
That is a Ponzi scheme (those that put in now are paying for those "out" now, and unless new payers are found those out later get nothing.)
From 1983 until recently, Public Unions in VA were not required to pay into their pensions at all. It was the Taxpayer only that paid into it FOR the union workers. And here is a kicker- you have to pay into it (proposed) but get a pay raise to offset the payment... http://www.pionline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=CO&Date=20110314&Category=SLIDESHOW2&ArtNo=310009999&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3
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That's all well and nice, but, the governor was looking for money. He found it in the VRS fund---not a bank account, but, the best investment portfolios in Virginia which is why they became so attractive to public spenders. he dipped his hands in it and took $500 million out of it. I am furious at that. Call it ponzi, call it whatever, it is making the most money of any fund Va has.
From 1983 until recently, Public Unions in VA were not required to pay into their pensions at all. It was the Taxpayer only that paid into it FOR the union workers. And here is a kicker- you have to pay into it (proposed) but get a pay raise to offset the payment
I know of no 'union' worker in Va who is a public servant....Virginia is a 'right to work' state. see Va Code
Va. Code Ann. §§ 40.1-58 through 40.1-69
http://www.nrtw.org/c/vartwlaw.htm
very interesting......from this site ( http://www.nrtw.org/en/blog/right-work-news-case-national-right-work-act-3142011 )
The logic of state Right-to-Work laws is ironclad: Not only is safeguarding worker freedom the right thing to do,it also yields tremendous economic benefits. Recent studies from the Cato Institute and the National Institute for Labor Relations Research suggest that Right-to-Work states enjoy higher job growth and more cost-of-living-adjusted disposable income for workers than their forced-unionism counterparts.
They also seem to be weathering the recession better than old Midwestern industrial bastions like Michigan, Illinois and Indiana, states that lack protections for individual workers' rights.
Perhaps the most compelling evidence in favor of state Right-to-Work laws was reported in a Wall Street Journal editorial last year. Citizens are voting with their feet, leaving forced-unionism states in droves for job opportunities with their Right-to-Work neighbors.
The NRTWA’s economic rationale is compelling:
● Among America’s 22 right-to-work states (including Florida, Georgia, and Texas), non-farm private-sector employment grew 3.7 percent from 1999 to 2009, while it shrank 2.8 percent among America’s 28 forced-unionism states (e.g. California, Illinois, and New York).
● During those ten years, real personal income rose 28.3 percent in right-to-work states and sank 14.7 percent in forced-unionism states.
● In 2009, cost-of-living-adjusted, per-capita, disposable personal income was $35,543 in right-to-work states versus $33,389 in forced-unionism states. Americans in right-to-work states enjoyed more freedom — and a $2,154 premium.
Notwithstanding that right-to-work states are comparatively prosperous engines of job growth, the case for right-to-work laws is not merely economic, but moral.
“Government has granted union officials the unprecedented power to force individual employees to pay up or be fired and to coerce workers into subsidizing union speech,” says the National Right to Work Committee’s Patrick Semmens. “This fundamental violation of individual liberty — an infringement on freedom of speech and freedom of association — finally would end with passage of the NRTWA.”
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in NH they just with in a month ago voted out right to work. these new 3 month on the job republicans are really messing up NH.
also like a few people said fire, police, teachers, our unions are public unions. not like waste management or something.
and like i heard also about paying quality people. one of the guys pushing this on us the hardest is a retired union airline pilot. imagine them losing there CBA rights and some dufid ends up flying the planes for half price. SICKNING
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Union till I die....enough said!
If you like to be under paid and have no say in your place of work or what your employer can make you do work non union. For those of us who think or trade is worth a fair dollar work union. Its all about training, you must be trained and be well educated about your field if you want to paid a fair dollar. In order for a union and its members to be useful you must have good leadership. It all about give and take.
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I wonder what would happen if this ended up at a Federal level and they started taking away our veteran's pensions? Public employees at a different level. Could it happen? Would the reaction be different and why? I'm sure that would take the emotions to a whole new level. In the end is it really any different? Maybe we could privatize our military and save a bundle....hire China?
Now before you fire the first volley across my bow.... know this.... I'm a staunch supporter of our past and present soldiers. I fly the flag proudly. It gives me a knot in my stomach to think any of the things we as a nation are doing to public SERVANTS is right. If anyone should be paid a premium, it is to those who serve, protect, and train our future leaders.
I heard it said recently that the standards at which we teach will be the standards of the next generation of government. What message are we sending? I have personally sat my young adult children down and apologized for what our generation is doing to them.
This is akin to one of the Big 3 automakers eliminating the research and development departments to save a few dollars. Short term gain....long term loss when the future of the company (or country) is in danger.
Bottom line: Where will we be in 5 or 10 years? Better off or wondering where all that money went?
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That is a Ponzi scheme (those that put in now are paying for those "out" now, and unless new payers are found those out later get nothing.)
Agreed, all of those great benefits sound too good to be true, and lo and behold...
As far as republican or democrat or whatever, keep in mind that they are both on the same team, and that team is NOT middle class America. At the end of the day these d-bags think that they have the authority to do whatever they want, including stealing the money that was intended to be paid out to those of you who have a stake in this. Realize that their needs will always come before yours, and will always come at taxpayer expense.
As far as unions and government, nobody cares about my well-being as much as me, so I'll take my chances taking care of myself, thanks. I do hope those of you involved directly find the justice that you seek. The bottom line is that a deal is a deal, and individuals that held up their end of the deal are going to get screwed.
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I wonder what would happen if this ended up at a Federal level and they started taking away our veteran's pensions? Public employees at a different level. Could it happen? Would the reaction be different and why? I'm sure that would take the emotions to a whole new level. In the end is it really any different?
Funny you say this, we talked abouth this same thing yesterday. Veterans a re kinda in the same boat, would the public wanna take 20% of there retirement away, and treat them like this?
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I'm pretty sure there would be some voting from the rooftops.
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now the word is the senators will not pass the house's bill if it contains the removal of collective bargaining. ya, i hope