73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Body, Glass & Paint => Topic started by: Skunksmash on August 04, 2011, 07:21:24 am
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Getting ready to finally install HID's, but I need a set of projector headlights so that I don't blind oncoming traffic. As was explained to me here. The ones in the link say they'll fit a 1987 R10 Suburban, but not a 1987 R10 Pickup. Is that right? Shouldn't they fit the truck if they'll fit a burb?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4X6-UNIVERSAL-DIAMOND-CUT-PROJECTOR-HEADLIGHT-CHROME-H4-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZModelQ3aR10Q20SuburbanQQhashZitem588ed75997QQitemZ380353599895QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
(sorry I accidentally clicked "Notify" thinking it was the word "modify")
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those or for the 4 headlight system. if you have 4 lights then your good but if you need a two headlight system they wont work
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Thank you for getting projectors and doing it correctly.
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I have "projectors" like that in my truck and that disk in the center helps none, and actually hinders performance a bit. Get the housings with the star shaped reflector in the center and I can gaurantee happiness in the light quality. And stay clear of the black housings. My headlights do not blind anybody, but still put out awesome quantaties of light. Its mostly about the aiming of the lights.
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I have "projectors" like that in my truck and that disk in the center helps none, and actually hinders performance a bit. Get the housings with the star shaped reflector in the center and I can gaurantee happiness in the light quality. And stay clear of the black housings. My headlights do not blind anybody, but still put out awesome quantaties of light. Its mostly about the aiming of the lights.
Just curious but how do you know you don't blind anybody? Have you ridden in a different vehicle while someone else was driving your truck towards you, at night? That is how I'm going to test my final setup.
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I started my truck and skateboarded around the corner and down the street towards my truck and crouched down a bit so I would be at a bit of a typical viewing angle and adjusted my lights down to make it tolerable when I installed them. Then one night I was in my brothers car and my dad was looking at my lights when we came down the street and they didnt blind me at all. They were no were the same as standard headlights head on, but more depth at a distance.
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Are those for the low beams in a four lamp system?
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Are those for the low beams in a four lamp system?
I don't think that they're low beams specifically. I think that if you buy them, you just buy four of the exact same one and just angle them properly for low beams and high beams. I don't think that you are supposed to get different ones for the lowbeams and highbeams. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong though. It may not matter either way you choose to do it. Truck might look kinda funny with different ones though.
I started my truck and skateboarded around the corner and down the street towards my truck and crouched down a bit so I would be at a bit of a typical viewing angle and adjusted my lights down to make it tolerable when I installed them. Then one night I was in my brothers car and my dad was looking at my lights when we came down the street and they didnt blind me at all. They were no were the same as standard headlights head on, but more depth at a distance.
Ok to be clear, you are talking about having a true HID setup using those headlights, correct? Do you happen to have a link to the ones you bought? And are you satisfied with the quality and durability of them?
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The housings are either or for low and high beam. The HID bulbs do not get any brighter for high or low beams, it goes off of the aiming of the lights. So, he could buy a pair of housings for just his low beams or just his high beams, it all depends on the aiming, unless you buy Hi/Low bulbs. I have a set of Hi/Low bulbs in my truck. They are called "Telescopic Bi-Xenon". The bulb is in a housing and the housing has a magnetic driver in the base of it about the diameter of a half dollar. When you click the high beams, it activates the driver and moves the bulb foreward which causes the reflection of light to angle UP more, giving it high beam output.
Skunksmash, I have real HID bulbs and ballasts in my truck. BUT I do NOT have true projector style housings. I have a reflector housing that has a cut off reflection pattern.
Here is the HID kit I bought, it was on sale for 40 dollars through a special the seller was holding when I bought them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Bi-Xenon-HID-SLIM-Kit-H4-H13-9007-9004-Hi-Lo-/140349031180?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ad74430c (http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Bi-Xenon-HID-SLIM-Kit-H4-H13-9007-9004-Hi-Lo-/140349031180?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ad74430c)
they work great, project great, very easy to wire the relay, and are peetty great quality. One bulb burnt out on me a bit, but I think it got wet. Its dim and blue in color now while my original ones were bright and purple in color.
And this is the housing I bought, not the same posting but, Diamon cut chrome clear reflector(not "projector" 6024 housings that accept a H4 bulb type.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/UNIVERSAL-7-ROUND-DIAMOND-CRYSTAL-HOUSING-HEADLIGHT-H4-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3f0c94d507QQitemZ270794020103QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/UNIVERSAL-7-ROUND-DIAMOND-CRYSTAL-HOUSING-HEADLIGHT-H4-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3f0c94d507QQitemZ270794020103QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
And they are wonderful. Great quality for the price, amazing light output, just awesome. I bought a set of black "projector" housings first and the didnt reflect for crap, and when I removed the "projector" disk it made the light output slightly better so I think ot hurts more than helps. Im going to use those lenses for a Retrofit with TRUE projector housing/lenses somewhere down the road.
And here is my topic on my headlight conversion. Between myself and my friend clint we have bought 4 hid kits through Xenonfactory seller on ebay and all of them have been great products and for low dollar. 38 dollars or something for a standard HID kit in any color you want and they shipped in less than a week every time.
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=19132.0 (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=19132.0)
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I have "projectors" like that in my truck and that disk in the center helps none, and actually hinders performance a bit. Get the housings with the star shaped reflector in the center and I can gaurantee happiness in the light quality. And stay clear of the black housings. My headlights do not blind anybody, but still put out awesome quantaties of light. Its mostly about the aiming of the lights.
Please stop calling them projectors. It is a reflector.
I started my truck and skateboarded around the corner and down the street towards my truck and crouched down a bit so I would be at a bit of a typical viewing angle and adjusted my lights down to make it tolerable when I installed them. Then one night I was in my brothers car and my dad was looking at my lights when we came down the street and they didnt blind me at all. They were no were the same as standard headlights head on, but more depth at a distance.
That isnt how you aim headlights.
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What are you supposed to do with the third wire on the headlights
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Beastie, that is why I put them in quotations. The listings on ebay list them as "projectors" and I know they are not. A projector headlight is a polyelipsoidal reflector with a image reversing front lense and a cut off pattern. How do you adjust them? When I had my normal.bb headlights I parked in fron of mg garage door and adjusted them so they pointed straight ahead and paralell to the ground. But, for courtesy reasons I aimed them down.more when I installed HIDS.
Irish, if you by a standard, single beam HID kit, the 3rd wire for the High Beams is not used. If you buy the Bi-Xenon kit, the 3rd wires is used to trigger the magnetic driver to move the bulb foreward to change the reflection up more.
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If you know they arent projectors, then dont call them that. If it were the case, then I have projectors too. Where did you get your projector information from?
Why did you aim your normal headlights the correct way, but use a skateboard to aim HIDs?
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I am getting my projector information from hours of research. I called them "projectors" because some member of the forum may not know the terminology. The person asking about them asked about where to get projectora and I stated they are not TRUE projector housings, but they have a cut off reflective pattern, similar to a true projector. The reason I am calling them "projectors" WITH quotations is because that is the way they are listed on ebay.
And the reason I used my skate board to adjust my HID lights was to ensure I did not blind oncoming traffic. I only adjusted them down about a degree or so. It was only for courtesy reasons, but it did not take away from the functionality of the lights one single bit.
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Been a while but thought the low had three male spades on it while the high had two.again been a while(7 years or so) so I could be wrong
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I was going off of the connectors on a single round. I dont know about the 4 square set up.
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Thought single round was one low one high and one ground
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Correct.
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Anybody got a link to that thread where the guy used the lenses out of an acura to make the home made projectors? Though I'm not sure if that would work with my headlight size. I have the 4 square setup.
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Also does anyone know what the actual bulb size is for the factory headlights on an 87, 4 headlight setup? It seems like everywhere just sells a whole new headlight with a bulb included.
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its a composite headlight no bulb to change
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Well, that other guy looked like he put some other kind of bulbs in there. To make the different colors. I know many are composite, I was just hoping there were some that are not.
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I have h4 conversion housing, I posted a link to ebay for them on a previous page of this topic. They accept H4 bulbs.
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I have h4 conversion housing, I posted a link to ebay for them on a previous page of this topic. They accept H4 bulbs.
Think these will fit my silverado? I have the four square headlight setup. This is the same company you recommended. Only thing that concerns me is their little vehicle look up thing says that they won't fit an 87 r10 silverado. And looking at the back, it looks like they might be missing some of the required mounting places.
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Find out what housing type you have. My housong are 6024's. Find your type, and then search ebay for "xxxx h4 conversion" and find the housing right for you.
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Where exactly did you go to find out that number? I have been looking at autozone and oreilly's and some other places for reference numbers but I can't find anywhere that talks about the number you are referring to. All of them seem to have individual part numbers supplied by the manufacturing company. Maybe I'll just call the dealership.
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Quick google search, your bulb type is 6054.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/7-x6-H6054-Sealed-Beam-Replacement-Headlight-Lamp-H4-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45fc4508f3QQitemZ300585126131QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/7-x6-H6054-Sealed-Beam-Replacement-Headlight-Lamp-H4-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45fc4508f3QQitemZ300585126131QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
But, im not entirely sure how square headlights mount. On round headlights, there is a metal ring that goes around the outside of the headlight and screws into the bucket. I can only assume square headlights are the same.
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Thanks. Mine are actually 4x6 not 7x6 but I see what you're saying.
EDIT: Called them up and they don't sell them for my year. Also I don't think a typical H4 style bulb will just plug right in to the factory harness. Oh well I'll find them somewhere else. I'll post up where I find 'em at so it'll be easier for anyone else who might look for them.
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As long as theyre the right measurements theyll fit. Mind werent vehicle specific either. Show me a picture of you harness for you bulbs. Did you want the housings on high or low beam?
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Why not start by adding relays on what you have? It will make your headlights brighter and if you're still not happy you'll be glad you have the relays when you do upgrade.
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Why not start by adding relays on what you have? It will make your headlights brighter and if you're still not happy you'll be glad you have the relays when you do upgrade.
I have to agree. The difference in light quality with and without relays is amazing. Even with HIDs, my kit cam with a relay and kits without relays will flicker quite a bit, and one bulb may be a slightly different hue than the other due to the differences in voltage. With the relay kit, ita not the case.
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(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq318/justinsn95/Harness3.jpg)
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq318/justinsn95/Harness2.jpg)
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq318/justinsn95/harness1.jpg)
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There are the pics of my connectors. I think I'm just going to go with the standard 2 highbeam, 2 low beam setup if I can.
As for the relays, I'm not exactly sure where you hook 'em up at. Perhaps one of you has a picture of your relay setup and what wires are going in and coming out of the relay. Oh yeah, one more thing. I'm not sure if this matters or not, but i think someone may have already done some kind of mod to my headlights. I think that from the factory, when you turn on the bright lights, the lowbeams go off. But mine stay on, so all four headlights are shining at once. I think I read somewhere on this site, that its some kind of mod that people do. Not sure if it matters or not.
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That's the standard connectors that gm used for sealed beams on these trucks and many other vehicles. I'm pretty sure that all of the quad headlight trucks had all four on for high beams, until the change to the new front end with the smaller side by side headlights (was it '91+?). I think those are the ones that people mod. to have all four on at the same time. As for the relay, your existing positive wires hi and low beam would be used to trigger the coil on two relays and you would supply a new positive source with a fuse to one contact and the other contact would go to the headlights. Here's a write-up: http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/exterior/headlight_relay.htm (http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/exterior/headlight_relay.htm) If you haven't messed with relays before this might all be a little confusing but its really simple. If you have one around that you could pull the lid off of you would see right away how they work. I'm looking around for parts to do a relay retrofit on mine soon so maybe I can snap some pics. Hopefully I can make it presentable enough to not be embarrased to share. Notice I haven't shared many pics of my welding!
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Is there any bulb size that will just plug right into that factory connector? I noticed that the H4 bulbs only have two prongs, so I don't think they'll work. Might have to retrofit some H4 connectors.
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I thought H4 bulbs were hi/low so they should have 3 prongs. 1 high, 1 low, 1 ground.
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That is the same plug pattern as h4s. Since you have 4 headlight system, you could buy a pair of housongs just for your low beams and only use the low beam wire and the ground wire from the harness and that will give you HID low beams and standard sealed beam high beams, and with the mod thats on it your HIDs and your high beams will be on at the same time when you switch to brights. Like I said before, if you get aingle beam HID kits, it will use only 2 wires from the 3 wire factory harness, the low and the ground. If you get bi xeneon hid kits, it will use all three. Since you have the 4 headlight set up, if you wanted HID high beam and low beam, you would need to buy 2 pairs of housing and 2 sets of aingle beam hid kits.
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if it was me and i was to have 4 style head lights and only upgrade two out of my four bulbs then i would op for high beams only so then you dont have to worry about blinding someone and with low beams if you have them on you dont have a problem seeing cause there other cars around or street lights but with high beams your all alone and need to see more than with the lows
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Hmm. Odd that the H4's will plug right in to my existing connectors. I never would have guessed. Now I just have to find some H4 Conversion "reflector" housings that actually fit the truck. After looking at many of the ones sold online, I'm pretty sure its that the metal mounting plate won't transfer over. That explains why the ones sold online will fit a mustang or a camaro or other cars, but not my truck.
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This is asking a bit, but can you post a picture of your current sealed beam bulb removed from the truck and its mounting ring?
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Hmm. Odd that the H4's will plug right in to my existing connectors. I never would have guessed. Now I just have to find some H4 Conversion "reflector" housings that actually fit the truck. After looking at many of the ones sold online, I'm pretty sure its that the metal mounting plate won't transfer over. That explains why the ones sold online will fit a mustang or a camaro or other cars, but not my truck.
I am just getting ready to do this exact mod to my Suburban. First, though the H4's use the same connector they are wired differently, so you would need to reroute the terminals in your existing sealed beam connectors if you want to reuse them. I think it is easier to just install a new headlight harness with relays and just use the existing connector to energize the relays from your old headlight/high beam switch. That way the entire old harness is unmolested and can easily be returned to sealed beams if desired. The Hela H4 units should fit in your truck fine. I needed the 6"x4" or 165mm ones. Some of the cheaper ones fit too, but I wanted to stay with higher quality reflectors from established mfg. I was going with the Hella units, but ended up finding a pair of Cibie e-code conversion units used on Ebay. Hope that wasn't pound foolish, they look nice but with some glass pitting, and by the time you can actually see degradation in the reflectors their light output is way off.
My plan is to do the relay harness to insure full power at the lights, and enable increased wattage. Go with H-4 conversions in the low beams. I was going to install 100/80w halogen bulbs, but got convinced Osram 70/65w would be a better choice. The ideal is H-1 conversions in the high beams, but I'm trying to keep it cheap so I think I will keep the existing sealed beam highs but run through relays to get full power. Then I have a set of Hella FF500 driving lights with 100 watt halogen bulbs that I will wire with my high beams and a separate dash mounted switch. My total project cost will be under $150. I will have brighter 65w low beams but with lots of control over light with the e-codes. For High Beams I will have 3 steps: The H-4 70 watt beam by itself, add in the 65 watt sealed beam high and finally add in the 100 watt driving lights. So 235 watts on each side, just under 500 watts in total high beam mode.
I found most of my information on relays at Daniel Stern Lighting. Here is a link to his very good relay explanation. (http://"http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html")
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Skunksmash, I looked at my buddies 4 headlight system tonight. The ones on ebay will almost certainly work.
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Skunksmash, just read your earlier posts. Do you have the integrated headlights with a separate halogen bulb in the back of the housing, or the 6x4 sealed beams held into buckets with a mounting ring on the front?
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This is asking a bit, but can you post a picture of your current sealed beam bulb removed from the truck and its mounting ring?
Sure no problem. I'm going to take them out anyway for replacement. The visibility is borderline dangerous so they have to go. The aluminum trim ring is the only thing that holds the light to the truck. And it just sort of slips over the light itself. The light itself has a little lip, that the aluminum trim ring sits on. You then just screw the screws though the little holes in the aluminum ring, and your light is fastened to the truck. Pretty simple. So really, the only thing is, the lip would have to exist on the new aftermarket reflector headlights, in the correct dimensions so that the trim ring could fit on. If the lip was too far out, or wasn't there at all, they're not going to fit. You can see the lip I am talking about in pic 2, where the ring is separate from the headlight.
As for the the back, yes, as you can see, the bulb is made into the headlight housing. I don't have a problem with moving the connector pins around though. If I wanted to convert to H-4's, I could simply pull the pins out of the little white connector itself, then stuff them back in, in a way that let them work properly with an H4 bulb. I think...
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq318/justinsn95/chevlight1.jpg)
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq318/justinsn95/chevlight2.jpg)
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq318/justinsn95/chevlight3.jpg)
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Ahh. Exactly as I thought, you see, my sealed beams had a lip as well, but my conversion housings fidnt. But they still work. The lip does not have to be there, the mounting ring only.has to fit around the lense.
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I still find it odd that the company that you recommended, doesn't show them to fit the trucks. When I called them up, the rep said that they might have been taken off the fitment list for R-10 Silverado, if a customer had called and complained that they didn't fit. I guess there is only one way to find out. Order them and hope for the best. Which is what I was trying to avoid lol
Also, I found this. But unfortunately it comes with the crappy, old style headlight lens instead of a clear lens. Wish I could just find the little connector conversion, sold by itself.
http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/auto/parts/87/chevrolet/r10_suburban/driving_lights/headlamp_conversion_lamp_165mm_h4_55_60w_.html?3593=125277
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Hey check these out. These are Pilot, a trusted name brand headlight. They use H4 bulbs too. Only thing is, they don't have that little reflective "star" int the middle like you recommended.
http://topgearstreet.com/4x6-Halo-Headlights.html
EDIT: Found a kit I would buy in a heartbeat: Depo brand. Another good trusted brand of headlight. Only thing is, if I bought this, I'd be paying for a lot of pieces that I don't need seeing as how its for a camaro.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1985-1992-CHEVY-CAMARO-8PCS-CLEAR-HEADLIGHTS-COMBO-NEW-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZMakeQ3aChevroletQ7cYearQ3a1985QQhashZitem3369a60d45QQitemZ220815822149QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
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From my research I would rank Cibie, Hella, Bosch, Phillips as OEM/high quality. The Depos, Pilots are a step or two below those. Generic ebay kits at the bottom.
My first instinct was a Depo or Pilot kit. I almost pulled the trigger on some from DDM
http://www.ddmtuning.com/Products/4656-Halogen-Lamp (http://www.ddmtuning.com/Products/4656-Halogen-Lamp) those had a plug and play connector for $60 without bulbs. They have HID kits to add in.
But with a bit more research I decided the OEM level quality for $50 more was worth it and was going to get e-code Hellas from
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=64 (http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=64) for $112 which included bulbs. Upgraded higher wattage bulbs available for an upcharge. Actually I would have gotten the free form version for $128 ... the free form is the most recent version that has a clear lens and relies on a computer formed reflector to direct the light output. They also sell an H1 version for the high beams that I was going to drop 100w bulbs in.
If you just want a conversion pigtail they have that at rallylights too:
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=120 (http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=120) $12.95, though like you said you can easily just move the terminals around. That link also shows the pin outs at each end if thats what you decide.
Regarding HID. That was what I started out looking for. But the more I read I discovered there is no consensus that conversions in this format were able to safely distribute that kind of output without lowering the beams to an extent that your distance vision is impacted. In fact the consensus seems to be that HID conversion in a halogen sealed beam housing is dangerous to other traffic. Very interesting discussion of the HID issues at:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/disadvantages/disadvantages.html (http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/disadvantages/disadvantages.html) Email Daniel Stern and discuss with him. I exchanged several emails with him ... took a little follow up to get him to respond. I've seen some recommendations in lighting forums it is better to call him. He is very knowledgeable and freely gives advice. After discussing with him and others at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?87-Automotive
(http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?87-Automotive) I decided to not do HID and go upgraded e-code with higher wattage. In fact I got convinced to not go with 100/80w bulbs but 80/70w to reduce low beam glare to other users and go 100w in the high beam only housings.
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Thanks for the helpful reply. I'll probly end up going with the Depo's, or your DDM recommendation. I'm just not real impressed with all the Cibie/Hella lights. They look so old and ugly, even if they are perfectly constructed out of great materials. The lens pattern that they use has been abandoned by the automakers for good reason. So I'm looking for something that incorporates the modern technology of a clear headlight lens.
As for the HID, I can totally see what you mean by that. Its doubtful that these old trucks, among many other vehicles, could ever really do HID perfectly. But I'm sure that there are a lot of vehicles that it would work well with. Perhaps HID would be fine for these trucks, in the bright lights. Something you're not using when there are other vehicles on the road. Then just get some good dims that are non-HID. When it comes to the light pattern... eh... I don't think I'm that much of a perfectionist. I don't want to hurt anyone's eyes, I find that to be very annoying. But beyond that, as long as its plenty bright and throws out far enough, I'm not concerned with having this perfect light arc that you could take to some kind of light show and win trophies. Those guys over at the candlepower forums seem too overly concerned with that kind of thing. I just want it to be better than it was when the truck was new.
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I hear you on the way the traditional Cibie/Hellas look. They rely on those ridges to aim the light. The clear lens ones are relying on angles in the reflector to aim the light. What Hella calls the free form (FF) light with a computer calculating how to angle the sections of the reflector. I figured the latest research would be in the free form reflectors ... also they look cooler! :D Thats where I was going with the Hella FF version:
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=1787 (http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=1787) a little more at $128 but worth it to me. Are you going to go with a relay harness, or just plug the conversion pigtails into the oem harness? Either way it will be a big improvement over the stocks ... which is what I wanted too. But when I drive my Suburban it is usually a trip that ends up on dark two lane roads late at night, so getting a lot more wattage out on the high beams was a prime consideration for me.
Edit: as an aside an older Camero was following me last night with an HID kit in these same housings. It was really blinding even in my rear view. I was tempted to say something to him at a light but just slowed down so he would get in front of me.
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Thats why I stress so much about aiming. Even aiming the headlights down a degree or two will keep from blinding people and you wont sacrifice.light quality at all with HIDs because the depth of the light reaches a half mile infront of my truck because I can see the purple hint on road signs that far away.
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Man those hella's are expensive. Out of my range, I'm afraid. After considering price, I think I'm just going to get some of those depo ones for now and go with a conversion harness. I'm not going to mess with the whole relay thing until I get into HID's for the brights. So basically I'm looking for cheap, and easy lol 8)
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I can understand that ... I can be the king of cheap at times! Like going with the ebay Cibies I picked up. Just hope it doesn't bite me in the rear like it does some times!
Good luck.
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Does anyone know which pins in the headlight connector, need to be rearranged? And where they need to be arranged to, for it to work with H4 bulbs? Should be pretty simple to figure out I guess. Then again I don't know which ones are power on the bulb itself.
Anyway, I found this kit on amazon for converting to H4 bulbs:
http://www.amazon.com/Headlight-Adaptor-Converter-Harness-Pigtails/dp/B00408UDU0/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1313348490&sr=1-1
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Those rally lights links I posted earlier have the pin outs for both connectors.
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=120 (http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=120) click the other images for the pin out info.
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Found out some new info on all this. Well new to me, at least. I think for the high beams, its better to have H1 bulbs. And for the low, H4. I emailed a custom headlight making company and the guy said
"2 would be H1 bulb (high beam only)
2 would be H4 bulb (high and low beam)"
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Yep, you only need the single filament H-1 for the high beams. I think the base on the H-1 is a different size than the H-4. I know the Hella site I linked above has specific H-1 conversion housings a bit cheaper than the H-4 ones. Still around $45 apiece though. To get cheaper housings it would not be a big deal to get four of the H-4 ones. H-4 bulbs in say 100/55 are only about $4/5 more than than a 100w H1. Your existing sealed high beam 2 terminal connector should hook right up to the ground/hi beam terminals on the H-4 bulb. So all you would use is the hi-beam 100w filament.
So you would spend $10 more in bulbs but pay $45 less in housings.
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Dang. I did not notice that the connectors for the bottom set of headlights only has two pins. Not three. So they won't fit an H4 bulb. Maybe I'll just cram 'em on there and see what happens lol
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Been a while but thought the low had three male spades on it while the high had two.again been a while(7 years or so) so I could be wrong
tried to tell ya
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I think the two connector stock high beam will fit on the two connector side of the H-4 bulb. You can double check the pin outs in the above links, but pretty sure those two connectors on the H-4 bulb are the high filament and the ground. So it will probably work ... just have to buy the slightly more expensive H-4 bulbs and not use the low filament. The low beam terminal shouldn't have any current to it either, so no danger with leaving it exposed. But check it with a meter to be sure.
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Cool thanks. I was thinking there was likely an easy fix due to there only being 3 prongs. What do you mean when you say to buy the more expensive bulbs? I had these picked out cause they cast a white light:
http://www.luminicsusa.com/detail.asp?p_Number=LKW-H04SF
Already got some in my stang and they are pretty cool. The light is white and very bright. I don't have the "Krypton" version of the bulbs though, so I was thinking about getting them for the 87 chevy cause it seems to be at a disadvantage already. When it comes to having a good lighting pattern and correct amount of light output.
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The H-4 bulbs are dual filament and cost more than single filament bulbs for a dedicated high beam housing, like the H-1's. You have to pay about $5 per bulb more ... or $10 total. But since that is still cheaper than the H-1 high beam housings from say Hela you still come out ahead.
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Would an H1 bulb fit the 2-prong connectors? Might be a better idea for the bright lights since H1's have two filaments, 1 for bright and 1 for dims. Although I don't know if H1 will fit in a H4 socket inside the headlight housing itself.
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I think the H-1's will fit the stock high beam 2 connector. I don't think an H-1 will fit in a headlight housing designed for the H-4.
Before I bought anything on those assumptions I would call a headlight retailer and ask them. I would call the rallylights.com people at the above links and ask them those two questions.
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Yeah you're right. You just bend the third prong on the H4 bulb up, and it fits just fine in the two prong connector. I tried it and they work fine. So all I gotta do is just get two pair of H4 conversion headlights, and bend (or cut off) one prong on each side of the bright lights. And just leave them the way they are on the dims. Then just make sure I angle the brights well so that I get the good "bright lights" effect when I turn on the brights.
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I was pretty sure that would work for you.
If you are planning on spending $35 or so on exotic gas bulbs I would look seriously at the Osram Hyper 70/65W H-4 bulb at about $18/bulb. The higher wattage will give you more lumens than any gas will. Since you are still using your stock harness that would be the most I would want to put through it. Here is a link http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=1404 (http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=1404)
I would also do a quick check on your voltage drop when you are doing these. If you have a digital VOM just turn on your headlights with all the bulbs installed in the circuit.
Connect the positive (red) test lead of a voltmeter to the car battery positive (+) terminal, and the negative (black) test lead to the + terminal of whichever headlamp filament (beam) you're testing -- use the bulb farthest away from the battery. Your voltmeter will give a direct reading of the voltage drop. Write it down.
Then, connect the positive (red) voltmeter lead to the ground terminal of the headlamp bulb, and the negative voltmeter lead to the negative (-) terminal of the battery. Your voltmeter will again give a direct reading of the voltage drop. Write it down. Add the two voltage drop figures obtained, and this is the total circuit voltage drop.
It's not uncommon to have over a 1v drop ... which results in about a 30% drop in lumen (light) output! I did mine and the various terminals ranged between a 1.64 and a 2.66! drop. That's an approximate drop in light output (lumens) of between 40-55%. :eek Even with new housings/bulbs I would only be getting about half the potential light output. That's why I'm putting in a lighting relay harness at the same time.
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Yeah I'll eventually do the relays. I'm just not into spending all the cash right now for everything. I just got four of those ebay Depo brand clear lens 4x6's for $50 shipped. They came with the H4 bulbs and the conversions on the back. That is about all I want to spend on this right now. And I'd say its at least a 100% improvement over the previous junkers. You don't have to spend a whole lot of money to get good lighting, and depo is a fairly reputable brand. Even though they're chinese lol. But they are the OEM supplier of a lot of automakers so that says something about them too. Not the best, but far from the worst.
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Ok and now a problem. Finally got to revisit this project, after having to put a portion of it on hold for awhile.
So yeah. Something's wrong. When you turn on the brights, all 4 don't light up like they used to. Now only the bottom lights light up for when you hit the brights, instead of all 4.
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Do you still have the relay wired in to power the low beams when the high beams turn on?
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Well I assume so. I didn't change a thing from stock really. And they all used to light up on bright, so I figure if it was there, it must still be. Must have something to do with bending one of the prongs on the lower H4 bulbs to get them to fit lol. I guess I knew there would be some difficulties. You can't fit the H4's into the two prong connectors, but they will still work if you bend up the top prong. Might just need some new bulbs that fit or something.
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Just to make sure my truck is correct and no one in the past has messed it up already... how is it supposed to be?
When you have the dims on, the bottom two light up, right? And then when you turn on the brights, the top two light up?
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No, unless the wirong is backwards, the bottom 2 should be the broghts and the top 2 ahould be the lows.
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Ok I had it backwards. Its the way you describe. So its gotta be the difference in the bulbs. Looks like my options for replacement bulbs are H7, H1, and H3. All those seem to be similar enough to the H4 but with 2 prongs instead of 3. Its gotta be one of those that I need for the lows.
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H1's and H3's are too small. Ive never seen an H7.
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All right screw it I guess I have to stop being lazy and do some wiring. Dang it. :D I'll just wire it up to use all 4 H4 bulbs that came in the new headlights.
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Take some pictures of your wiring so we can help some.
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Aww who am I kiddin I don't know where to start! I would just use trial and error but I'm afraid I'll just burn out and waste my H4 bulbs and have to buy more.
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Like I said, take some pictures of the wiring and we can help out. I dont think youll burn out the bulbs, if anything they justwont turn on.
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No, unless the wirong is backwards, the bottom 2 should be the broghts and the top 2 ahould be the lows.
Gotta revive this old thread.
Do yall think it would be bad if I got the brights and dims reversed? Looks like my brights are now going to be the top two lights, and the dims are going to be the bottom two lights. Well, the bottom two lights will come on, anyway. The top two will never go off. Pretty much the exact opposite of the way you describe.
For some reason that just seems to be what the new H4 bulbs want to do.
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The top two will never go off. Pretty much the exact opposite of the way you describe.
For some reason that just seems to be what the new H4 bulbs want to do.
this is how my 86 was setup the top two where low and stayed on all the time while the bottom two where the highs
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Yeah but now my top two are going to be the brights/highs. Is that a bad thing? Won't I be blinding people?
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Legally, the upper lamps need to be the low beams (in a vertically stacked setup). However, I would argue that the lower of the two being the low beams would be better for oncoming traffic. For example, in ECE regulations there is a height restriction on low beams (1,200 mm), but not on high beams. This is because you are not using the high beams in the presence of on-coming traffic. Who cares where your high beams are at that point!
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edit: just re-read what you did, and it should work without relays, although you will need them to keep from burning up your headlight switch or worse (catch your truck on fire). Did you swap the wires on your headlight connectors?
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I'm still working on getting it all going. I have not hooked anything up permanently yet. Just did some testing to see how the H4 bulbs would work with the stock stuff.
But uh.. so you're saying that if I just wire up the H4's and make 'em work, then it may ruin my switch? Where exactly do you install the new relays to prevent this?
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It will draw more current than your system was designed for. You may blow your fusible link going down the road and suddenly have no lights, or burn up the switch, or catch the truck on fire. You could buy a relay kit, or buy two relays and some wire and a fuse holder and wire it yourself. Search the internet a little. 78 Chevyrado added relays to his truck using relays with integral fuseholders--pretty slick.
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So it looks like I need... 4 of these things. One per headlight. Dang. Any way I could just use 2? Wait no I guess that wouldn't work cause all 4 headlights come on when you turn on the brights...
http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-003530041-SPST-Relay-Bracket/dp/B005OV274W
Also gotta figure out what the current draw is on the H4's so I can get the correct relays and fuses. Saw this in the archives on another forum.
"A stock sealed beam headlight only draws 12 to 15 amps. The stock headlight switch is rated up to 15 amps. A halogen headlight draws 15 to 18 amps, which is right on the edge.
Headlights don't draw anywhere near that much current. The typical halogen H4 headlights are 55/65 watts, which is only about 5 amps per bulb. I think stock bulbs are even lower.
http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/HighPerformance/Silverstar/ProductLine/
I have seen some specialty bulbs up around 100 watts, though.
Still, I would recommend a relay setup for any upgraded or even stock headlights."
"Chevynut...Your right on the amout of current draw...The other source I quoted was incorrect.....Thanks for pointing that out....However, the Shop Manual states that the thermal ckt breaker in the H/L switch is rated at 13 amps and the original sealed beams draw 50W at high beam for a total of 8.3 amps....Therefore, as you stated, 2 halogens at 60W will draw 10 amps, putting you toward the upper limit...See links:
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1955/55csm1204.html
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1955/55csm1218.html
So, I would recommend a relay setup for any upgraded or even stock headlights as well."
Ok do yall think the Hella 25 amp relays can be used for my H4 conversion? They come with a 25 amp fuse in them. If each H4 headlight is only going to draw 18 amps max, and I get 4 relays, then I should be fine right? Or is 25 amp too high? Do you need to be closer to your actual current draw? Maybe I should get 20 amp relays and a 20 amp fuse for each light?
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You only need one relay for high beams and one for low beams. Power their coils with the existing headlight low and high beam wires. Use those relays with built in fuses or just use an inline fuse ahead of regular SPST or SPDT relays. Power to the contact on the relay that will power your headlights should come through a substantial wire (10 ga. or so) hooked directly to the battery positive or use a ring terminal at the positive battery connection on the starter. The fuse, whether in the relay or inline should be close to the source you get B+ from so you don't have much unfused wire to pose a hazard.
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Ok sounds good. I'll report back later.
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if anyone is looking to buy hella replacement headlights fro the chevy quad light system, then check out this link.
http://www.ronthebusnut.com/collections/conversion-supplies/products/hella-165mm-headlamp
they have both low and high beam hella headlights for around $15.00 each.
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Yeah I considered those. They're probably great pieces, but they don't look very cool. They look old. That's why I bought the more modern looking Depo brand ones for the H4 conversion. People would look at those and just think they were stock.
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Couple more pics. Ended up having to use a hole saw on the factory headlight buckets to get the new headlights to fit in there. No big deal there. Just used some ebay H4 connectors for the lower 2 lights. The stock upper two lights already fit H4 bulbs so no need to buy anything there.
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u483/waycooltvrepairman/light3.jpg)
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u483/waycooltvrepairman/light2.jpg)
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u483/waycooltvrepairman/light1.jpg)
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Only thing is, the bottom two lights still just barely glow when you click over to the dims. Which is the top two lights. I got it wired up correctly so that when you turn on the dims, the correct filament in the H4 bulbs light up. Then when you turn on the brights, the correct filament in all 4 headlights light up. But for some reason, the bottom two are still getting power and just barely glow orange.
But this is nothing new. The factory headlight setup did the same thing.
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Here's a few before and after pics. Look pretty good imo and are a LOT brighter than those dangerous old style ones I was running. Even so, I'll still probly do the projector/HID project eventually. But not for a few years.
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u483/waycooltvrepairman/truckpicstokeep021.jpg)
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u483/waycooltvrepairman/SAM_0438.jpg)
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u483/waycooltvrepairman/SAM_0439.jpg)
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u483/waycooltvrepairman/truckpicstokeep020.jpg)
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Next stop.. new grill and lower spoiler. Look how tore up it is.
Already got the new headlight bezels though. If you look at the passenger side in the first pic, you can see the old ones were broke. Ordered some off ebay and sanded 'em and rattle canned 'em.
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skunk as paranoid as you are im surprised you left your tag on the truck while taking those pics ;)
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Whoops let that one slip :D Fixed!
I blame it on being tired when I was uploading those. Auto theft runs rampant here in the DFW area. And while I live just a little south of there, best not to take any chances.
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Hmm. Got some kind of problem here. Looks like I might have to wire up all the dims to be on at the same time, just like the brights. When I switch to dim, its really dim lol. Too dim to be usable. This is probly cause the old bulbs were brighter than H4's are on dim.
But the brights are like daylight lol.
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I would get rid of those fake projectors because they look really bad. magazines sell the real conversion. They are the good quality sealed beams almost feel like glass and only run at 40 a piece. They offer the conversion socket for the 9007 bulb for cheap which is what you need to add HID's. The socket is all you need and does not require any cutting. HID's come with ballast for the right power and I would get the hi/low ones for the top only because when you switch to high beams they all come on but in white color just like factory. I've had them for 3 years now with no problem yet.