73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Brakes, Frame, Steering & Suspension => Topic started by: Motorhead337 on September 23, 2015, 11:14:50 am
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I recently put a rough country lift (6 inches) on my 1991 v1500. The instructions said to position the wedge on the bottom of the leaf spring narrow end towards the center of the vehicle as well as the 2inch block. So that it would raise the pinion up. Now the pinion center line is actually well above the transfer case . the angle from the top of the driveshaft to the top of the pinion is greater than 180° The people at rough country are idiots I even sent them pics.
Any ideas?
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150922_101837_zpsbzayfbyf.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150922_101837_zpsbzayfbyf.jpg.html)(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/1280driveshaft_angles_zpsnfwzgbbp.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1280driveshaft_angles_zpsnfwzgbbp.jpg.html)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150922_101828_zpspdculzqu.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150922_101828_zpspdculzqu.jpg.html)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150922_101828_zpspdculzqu.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150922_101828_zpspdculzqu.jpg.html)
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post a picture of the wedge. i know i had to take a grinder to my wedge cause it wasnt flush on either side. both sides were convex
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Something is definitely either not installed right or you have the wrong wedge.
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The first driveline drawing is absolutely wrong!!! U-Joints need a little angle on them or they will fail. With 0° working angle the needle bearings in the cups will not rotate and will quickly fail. the second driveline drawing is what you want.
The pinion angle should match the angle of your transmission tailshaft. You can sometimes angle it down a couple of degrees so that when the leaf-springs wrap-up the angle is essentially perfect. The trouble comes when the angle between the yoke and driveshaft approaches 15°. 15° is the working angle limit of a typical U-Joint.
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Rough country insist that dropping the t case will "correct" the pinion angle. But if I drop the t case its going to make it even more like the fourth scenario in that picture.
Here's the best I can do.(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150923_142004_zpso4g4kohv.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150923_142004_zpso4g4kohv.jpg.html)
As you can see both the block and wedge have taper and both are placed with narrow end towards center of vehicle(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150923_142015_zpsklfkx9y6.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150923_142015_zpsklfkx9y6.jpg.html)
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take the wedge out
are the blocks tapered also?
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Yes both are tapered.
Idk how to remove the wedge. Its attached to the leaf pack with the bolt/centering pin? Either way if I could pull the wedge and leave the pin , the pin would need ground down otherwise it will not fully seat into the block.
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the pin should be a bolt that has a round head, the round head should be able to fit inside of the block for alignment purposes. you need to put a c clamp on the spring pack (not on the springs and wedge) and get it tight then remove the bolt the drop the wedge and reapply the bolt.
but before that i would spin the block around and see what that looks like so the taper is going the other way. maybe even tap on the wedge with a hammer and spin that around
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I'd like to retract my statement about that pin not Being able to seat fully
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I don't want to unhook everything again lol. I'm going to drop the t case and see if that helps. If not then I guess I'll have to drop the axle again
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I don't want to unhook everything again lol. I'm going to drop the t case and see if that helps. If not then I guess I'll have to drop the axle again
Transfer case has no relevance to the angle of the rear axle.
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Are the Springs marked clearly as to front side (fwd)?
You may not need the shims.
Your going to take it back apart. Doubt you'll get enough by dropping t-case down.
You would need a double cardigan joint at the t-case for that straight angle to work.
Single joint at each end requires max of 3 degrees difference of joint angle to work.
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wedge is upside down and should be below the block.
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Exactly! I told the guy if anything its going to make it worse.
But he appetently never took a geometry class.
Anyhow I dropped the tcase because it'll need it anyways and the vibration is a little better now I need to fix pinion angle.
Here's what it looks like after the tcase (http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150923_170703_zpsllakb1oq.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150923_170703_zpsllakb1oq.jpg.html)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150923_170638_zpslfv3cpbu.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150923_170638_zpslfv3cpbu.jpg.html)
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I'm going to try first spinning the blocks around, then spinning the wedge around, and worse case scenario take it all back apart and remove the wedge.
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Wait a second.... you said this is a 6" lift? Which lift kit? Because we need to know if it gave you 4" or 6" springs.
From your pics it looks like a 2" block then the shim.
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Okay blocks must be barely tapered. Spun the blocks around and its a little bit better. I'm going to spin the wedge around and but the blocks back how they were and see how that sits.
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Remove the shim and measure your pinion angle.
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Put the block so that the fat part was on the back and put the wedge fat side forward. I think the angle is to much and the driveshaft looks like its trying to fall out. Idk what to do :'(
Maybe just remove the wedge? That's not easy because I have to unbolt the shocks and brake hose to get the rear end low enough. Why isn't rough country helping??
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150923_175728_zpsi3pjcjyj.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150923_175728_zpsi3pjcjyj.jpg.html)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150923_175738_zpsxamb5n73.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150923_175738_zpsxamb5n73.jpg.html)
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Why don't you measure the pinion angle and take the guess work out of it?
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It is the 6" lift but they give you I think the 4inch springs and the 2inch block makes 6. Also I'm a newbie at lifting trucks and have no idea how to get an accurate measurement. I would suspect the wedge needs removed because it is used when you are doing the 4" lift and the block is all the angle you need with the 6". The block is a lot less tapered then the wedge. Sorry for being an idiot here...
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It is the 6" lift but they give you I think the 4inch springs and the 2inch block makes 6. Also I'm a newbie at lifting trucks and have no idea how to get an accurate measurement. I would suspect the wedge needs removed because it is used when you are doing the 4" lift and the block is all the angle you need with the 6". The block is a lot less tapered then the wedge. Sorry for being an idiot here...
Its perfectly fine but you need to take a step back and breathe for a moment. Start with the simple things.
Remove the shims and ONLY use the blocks nothing else and make sure the angle on the blocks points towards the FRONT of the truck.
Do you have a part number for this kit?
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Here's the kit
http://www.roughcountry.com/gm-suspension-lift-kit-214-88-92-20.html
And here's a break down of the parts
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2015-09-23-18-29-22_zpsusmzwpia.png) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2015-09-23-18-29-22_zpsusmzwpia.png.html)
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Well everything should work. I say pull the shims and just use the blocks.
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Doing that now I'm praying it will work y'all :(
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Doing that now I'm praying it will work y'all :(
What is the pinion angle with just the 4" springs?
Can you take a picture of everything far away so we can see the springs and axle together.
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i know i had to rotate my springs to make the drive shaft fit in my 79 with a 6" rough county lift
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i know i had to rotate my springs to make the drive shaft fit in my 79 with a 6" rough county lift
I know on the front direction matters as its a different sized bolt that is used. I'm not sure if the same applies in the rear. But I would think perhaps if the springs WERE put on backwards the locating pic could be in the wrong location.
Looking at this picture thought (http://www.4wheelbuy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/chevy_155h-leafs-37.jpg) it would appear the same rule applies so they could only go on one way.
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Shorter side fwd from my experience. Also with a 6 inch lift driveshaft length could be an issue.
My k 5 has 4inch tuff country springs and a 1 inch zero rate block no taper with no shims required for equal angles.
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Shorter side fwd from my experience. Also with a 6 inch lift driveshaft length could be an issue.
My k 5 has 4inch tuff country springs and a 1 inch zero rate block no taper with no shims required for equal angles.
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Yeah but right now driveshaft isn't the factor. It is the springs and axle being goofy.
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He needs to know these things tho.
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Alright everyone, after much hard work I removed the wedge and have just the block installed. I had to make new centering pins out of grade 8 3/8 bolts. Now the pinion is sitting the right way to the driveshaft but just barely. Its almost straight on. I feel like I need blocks with no taper at all. And yes the short side of the springs went forward. I don't feel any vibration till about 60 but my tires are bald and one is missing a chunk (I know I know). Using the tremec angle finder app on unlevel driveway it says the difference between the two ujoints is 1.6°. Soo I will post pics tomorrow my back is hurting like heck and its late. Any more questions or concerns? Thanks everyone. I know I'm difficult and its because I moved away from my dads shop and have very limited tools in an uneven driveway.
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Also (I will take pic with tape measure) how much "stick out" on the yoke should there be?
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Look at the old marks on the yoke and see how much was sticking out before.
You should be able to see the old wear marks and see how much in and out travel you had before, measure how much spline engagement you have left now in the slip yoke and see if you have enough travel on the splines using your original movement.
From what I learned about 2 inches minimum spline engagement.
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yeah i dont know why but with the short side forward the shaft was too long. not the same thing in your case, but i had to rotate mine to get the shaft the right length. i replaced a lift that was in mine with another lift. ideally if you lift the frame up and left the suspension hang if the shaft doesnt fall out you can see how much is still left in the tail housing. also most shocks will bottom out before the springs
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The shocks do bottom out wayyy before the springs and even with the shocks off and the rear end sitting about 4 inches below the uncompressed spring the driveshaft didn't fall out. I'd say its out about an inch or so more than were it was. I'll get some pics.
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Okay neither the tcase or pinion have much of an operating angle however I would say they are equal and opposite. Here's some pics what do you think about my yoke? Should I get the driveshaft lengthend ?
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150924_145023_zpsd3exyqra.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150924_145023_zpsd3exyqra.jpg.html)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150924_145036_zpslnrydxdn.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150924_145036_zpslnrydxdn.jpg.html)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150924_145013_zpszxzegzer.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150924_145013_zpszxzegzer.jpg.html)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/Jordan_Hebrock/Mobile%20Uploads/20150924_145002_zpslgcxqlel.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Jordan_Hebrock/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150924_145002_zpslgcxqlel.jpg.html)
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Unless you plan on hard wheeling or heavy towing it doesn't vibrate should be fine being a long wheel base. But of course longer would be better.
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How much of that yoke is left going into the trans? It is hard to tell from the pictures but the trans yoke and the axle yoke should be close to the same angle (within about 2-3 degrees) if that is the case you should be ok.
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They are within 3°
Idk how much is left in the trans but I will see soon when I replace the ujoints and output seal.
I called rough country and told them they either need to include removing the wedge in their instructions or sell the kit with 0 tapered blocks. He said he'd pass it along.. Psh.
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Just to add to this discussion...
I noticed there was talk of a transfer-case drop. I am not sure if you did that or not, but that is a fix that I don't like to do. All it does is angle the engine, transmission and transfer-case more to help decrease the working angle on the rear U-Joints. The problem is that it increases the working angle on the front driveshaft for a 4wd vehicle. On a long-wheelbase truck you shouldn't need to worry about this transfer-case drop at all! I have an 8" lift in my '91 with no transfer-case drop! The only thing that you have to do in my case is grind-down the limit stops on the front CV-Joint to allow it to spin freely.
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I did do the tcase drop but I'm thinking it would be better to remove it and get a slightly longer driveshaft.I dont even have the front shaft in because of the factory y-pipe is in the way.
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I want my 4wd. Is there a dual exhaust kit I could buy with minimal cutting? How much should I grind off this shaft?
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http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-shaft/index2.html
found this while going through my book marks
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Wow! That is informative. Any direction to look for dual exhaust system and 4.11 or 4.56 gears?
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dual exhaust i would op for true duals then a "h" pipe after the transmission. im not sure but i think 4.11 or 4.56 would be a hard to find gear set for a ½ ton in stock form. yeah you can buy some but be prepared to spend some money
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On my '91 I have true duals with Tri-Y headers. The exhaust is 3" from the collector to the muffler and 2.5" from the muffler back. There is not a kit for this; not that I have found. It has to be custom, but custom doesn't have to be expensive either!
On the crew cab with the TBI it is tight on the RH side for the exhaust, between the transfer-case and the frame rail! It is made even tighter because the factory fuel filter resides in the same area, but it can be done! For me, I am going to redo my exhaust and I am probably going to step back down to 2.5" exhaust for the full length: dual 2.5" exhaust is good for about 400 HP and the smaller diameter pipe will quiet down the exhaust noise a little.
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I might just run some pipes out the side of the rear tires for now. I want to go down to the yard and pull a 5.3/4l60e to swap in. I don't want to spend a lot on this old smoking 350. Thanks for the help!