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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Projects Posts (NOT VEHICLES) => Topic started by: 123 pugsy on December 06, 2007, 05:41:28 am

Title: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 06, 2007, 05:41:28 am
Well after the disappointing DYNO results ,I decided to build some stainless steel headers. I got some flanges waterjet cut out of 3/8 s/s plate and some 1-1/2" s/s elbows.

Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 06, 2007, 05:43:53 am
I put some black tape around the bolts to keep them centered to bolt up to the mock up engine.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 06, 2007, 05:46:03 am
I then bolted them up and welded bars across the top and bottom of the flanges. These are only temporary.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: JJSZABO on December 06, 2007, 10:01:34 am
Man - great work - MORE pics please.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 06, 2007, 07:12:35 pm
Thanks.

I installed an old exhaust manifold to mock up the frame rail location. I then bolted some bars in the approximate location of the frame. I then tacked three of the elbows in place.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: jonkmbll89 on December 06, 2007, 07:59:51 pm
Now that is what you call doing it yourself. Looks great so far. Are you making shorty or long tube headers? :D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 06, 2007, 08:04:23 pm
I'd like to try to get all the tubes between 28-32" each. The guys at the Dyno shop told me this is the optimal length. I doubt I'll be able to get them all the same but its worth a shot.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 07, 2007, 06:07:17 pm
I added a few more pieces and mocked up the dipstick tube. I stopped there as I was having a brain frat and didn't want to screw anything up. I will do more this weekend.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: jonkmbll89 on December 07, 2007, 09:45:19 pm
They're going to be one of a kind. I was just trying to visualize how you would run the spark plug wires. One of my buddies had his headers built for his 67 Nova with a Sb 400. The headers were wicked looking. They cost  him $600. :o
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: okuma on December 08, 2007, 06:16:54 pm
nice pugsy. ;)
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: SatisTraction on December 10, 2007, 05:03:05 pm
looks like it will be nice. I went the easy route and bought the stainless ones off ebay for $185. they actually look great but only fit OK.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 10, 2007, 08:12:05 pm
Well I ripped them apart twice. >:( Its not easy to get them all the same length. :o
This is where I'm at now. The bright side is I have until spring to finish.  ;)
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: SatisTraction on December 11, 2007, 05:58:34 am
i read up on your dyno and i do not see how this will help your air fuel ratio. A/F is controlled by several items and the tune. a custom tune would be the biggest help. The headers will be nice but dont be suprised when you have the same problems.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: JJSZABO on December 11, 2007, 07:09:39 am
Keep it going Pugsy.  We have faith in you.... ;D

Keep the pictures comming.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 11, 2007, 11:49:53 am
i read up on your dyno and i do not see how this will help your air fuel ratio. A/F is controlled by several items and the tune. a custom tune would be the biggest help. The headers will be nice but dont be suprised when you have the same problems.

The guy told me that the engine is being choked off. I pulled off the intake box to test his theory and bang. The air/fuel came up along with torque and HP. The air/fuel was actually lower than the 10:1 it shows as the machine flatlines there.
The guy seemed to know what he was talking about. I will also be adding 2-1/2" true dual exhaust ( with cats of course).

I'll get a DYNO when I'm done and check it out.I'm sure the worst thing is that I end up with more power and a better looking engine compartment. ;D
When (if) this doesn't help the situation, I will get the necessary scan tool and check that out.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Captkaos on December 12, 2007, 11:18:48 am
If the one on there is choking it, are you going to make a less restrictive Air intake?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 12, 2007, 01:40:50 pm
I've already got a nice big K&N air filter that fits the 4" tube I have set up. Pretty much plug and play, just needs a bracket to hold up the end of it. It comes with a 1/4-20 thread stud.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Captkaos on December 12, 2007, 02:56:59 pm
That would do it!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 15, 2007, 05:10:50 pm
OK, now is about the 5th go at it but I think I've got one side about done with every primary within 1" of each other.  :) They will be 32"  with ???" long collectors. Gotta research optimal collector length for this low HP, higher torque engine.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: jonkmbll89 on December 15, 2007, 08:29:25 pm
They will be one of a kind.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 87GMC2WD on December 16, 2007, 09:01:48 am
that looks awesome. lots of props to you
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: the dan on December 17, 2007, 02:14:18 pm
awsome job
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: zieg85 on December 17, 2007, 02:28:08 pm
Well after the disappointing DYNO results ,I decided to build some stainless steel headers. I got some flanges waterjet cut out of 3/8 s/s plate and some 1-1/2" s/s elbows.



123... You wouldn't have any extra flanges for sale??  I need a set to space my exhaust manifold out about 3/8" out on the drivers side so I can retain the original exhaust manifolds for use on an older block with the dipstick tube on the drivers side.  PM me, I don't want to hijack the thread.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: team39763 on December 17, 2007, 02:54:10 pm
Nice work 123Pugsy. Those are looking good.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 17, 2007, 04:37:28 pm

123... You wouldn't have any extra flanges for sale??  I need a set to space my exhaust manifold out about 3/8" out on the drivers side so I can retain the original exhaust manifolds for use on an older block with the dipstick tube on the drivers side.  PM me, I don't want to hijack the thread.
[/quote]

Hijack away. We're here to shoot the breeze.
 What I have is an Autocad drawing that any waterjet shop could use to cut them.

If your manifold just has that cast iron between the flanges that's interfering,that could  just be cut off.



Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 17, 2007, 04:42:57 pm
They will be one of a kind.

Nice work 123Pugsy. Those are looking good.

awsome job

that looks awesome. lots of props to you

Thanks guys.


Its not like I'm gonna have rip roarin power or anything , but I've installed headers before and not notice a difference. I hope these "feel" like they give me a bit.


The Dyno will tell.....




Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: zieg85 on December 17, 2007, 05:48:27 pm

123... You wouldn't have any extra flanges for sale??  I need a set to space my exhaust manifold out about 3/8" out on the drivers side so I can retain the original exhaust manifolds for use on an older block with the dipstick tube on the drivers side.  PM me, I don't want to hijack the thread.

Hijack away. We're here to shoot the breeze.
 What I have is an Autocad drawing that any waterjet shop could use to cut them.

If your manifold just has that cast iron between the flanges that's interfering,that could  just be cut off.

That is not the problem, The manifold off a 86 is the problem. The dipstick tube was straightened out to go behind the manifold but is smashed now because the clearance is about 1/2 the thickness of the dipstick tube...




[/quote]
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 17, 2007, 06:40:46 pm


You got a pic of the problem? There must be an easy fix for your problem.


Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: zieg85 on December 17, 2007, 07:13:34 pm


You got a pic of the problem? There must be an easy fix for your problem.



As you can see if I had some spacers I could use this exhaust manifold.  No other way around it that I can see shy of going with the older style exhaust manifolds which would require a new y pipe.  I have to retain the exhaust for emission tests.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 17, 2007, 07:57:03 pm
Looks like you should just use the older style. It looks like it dumps in the same spot.


Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: zieg85 on December 17, 2007, 08:07:15 pm
Looks like you should just use the older style. It looks like it dumps in the same spot.




I know but there is a matter of a whole new exhaust y pipe needed.  It dumps in the same spot but much higher with the newer style manifolds.  That is why if I just could space it out a hair.  I also have the emission tube that I have to put back in for the 86 and hook up the air pump.  I just prefer the total stock factory way.  I just don't have the coin to go with emission headers, new cats and a whole new system.  Just trying to get by the least expensive and easiest route so I can check my oil.  Thanks for your replies.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: bowtieguy on December 17, 2007, 09:06:50 pm
Those headers are going to looks great! Can't wait to see them finished!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 20, 2007, 07:41:11 pm
Looks like you should just use the older style. It looks like it dumps in the same spot.




I know but there is a matter of a whole new exhaust y pipe needed.  It dumps in the same spot but much higher with the newer style manifolds.  That is why if I just could space it out a hair.  I also have the emission tube that I have to put back in for the 86 and hook up the air pump.  I just prefer the total stock factory way.  I just don't have the coin to go with emission headers, new cats and a whole new system.  Just trying to get by the least expensive and easiest route so I can check my oil.  Thanks for your replies.

To get flanges cut at a waterjet shop would cost anywhere between 75-150 bucks.
Like I said , I have a drawing I could email the shop so they could cut them. The wife drew it ,so its not the best but my guy managed to use it OK. 


Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 20, 2007, 07:45:11 pm
I had to make another adjustment. :-\ I had to put in a dog leg so I could get the spark plug wrench onto #6 plug.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 20, 2007, 07:55:03 pm
I got the tubes approx within 1" of each other. You can see the dimensions written on 3 of the tubes.

I welded 2 up and give them a quick polish. They don't need too much polishing as I think I will get them ceramic coated.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: bowtieguy on December 20, 2007, 10:06:42 pm
Wanna come over and do my exhaust pipes?  You are doing a fantastic job!  Looks great!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 21, 2007, 05:14:49 am
Thanks.

Its going so slowwwwwwww. :P

The last set I did was quicker as all I was concerned about was clearing the frame and not the tube lenghts.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: JJSZABO on December 21, 2007, 07:32:05 am
Wow - that is really nice.  Great job pugsy!!  That is talent!  ;D

Could you post more pictures of your engine stand?  I didn't know you have a setup for running the engine out of the truck.  I would like to make a similiar stand.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 85MudMonster on December 21, 2007, 08:54:15 am
so, when can I buy a set?  ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 21, 2007, 04:52:12 pm
Wow - that is really nice.  Great job pugsy!!  That is talent!  ;D

Could you post more pictures of your engine stand?  I didn't know you have a setup for running the engine out of the truck.  I would like to make a similar stand.

Thanks.

The stand is overkill. It can be made with much lighter tubing.I just happened to have this 1-1/2x3" in stock. I still need to add a cover for the fan and a "dashboard" for the controls.
A tip: If you make a stand, make sure its high enough for the engine hoist to fit under it. Mine's too low and I will be raising it next time I use it.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 21, 2007, 04:54:21 pm
so, when can I buy a set?  ;D

I don't know anyone with enough coin to make me go through this again! :D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on December 21, 2007, 04:57:43 pm
Good job Pugsy! What made you want to make the headers anyway?

I have one of these and it would be really easy to make if you didn't wanna spend the $300 bucks to buy one

(http://image.bargainoutfitters.com/dimage/99944_ts.jpg?cell=320,320&cvt=jpeg)
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 21, 2007, 05:05:39 pm
Nice stand. A couple of mods to mine and it'll be good to go.

As for the headers,the guys who did the dyno believe my engine is not breathing well. First pull was below 10:1 air/fuel. Second pull with the air breather off netted about 12:1. They believe the exhaust is restricting it. I figured if I neede headers,I may as well make them as I have no other projects on the go. ;)  I'll also be adding 2-1/2" true dual exhaust. One side is already good.
I'll do a dyno when I'm done and see if these guys know what they're talking about,but it definitely makes sense.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 85MudMonster on December 21, 2007, 07:28:20 pm
what's on the other end of this motor, as in, what is it breathing in through?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 22, 2007, 06:40:22 am
what's on the other end of this motor, as in, what is it breathing in through?



I picked up a new K&N filter. Its huge. ;D


Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: jonkmbll89 on December 22, 2007, 06:41:38 pm
Thanks.

Its going so slowwwwwwww. :P

The last set I did was quicker as all I was concerned about was clearing the frame and not the tube lenghts.

Pugsy, you do good work. :o
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 22, 2007, 08:36:07 pm
Thanks. I should have pics tommorow of 1 side pretty much done. I don't know how its going in though, may have to lift the motor.... :P
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 23, 2007, 05:45:38 pm
Got the collector cut and welded to the header.
I just got to check the fit now and then finish welding the tubes to the flanges.


Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 23, 2007, 05:46:58 pm
A couple more pics.


Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: JJSZABO on December 23, 2007, 06:53:38 pm
WOW - I can't say enough - WOW.  Great work. 

Thanks for the pictures pugsy and vile.  I am thinking of making an engine stand, when I am done with this truck.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: jonkmbll89 on December 23, 2007, 06:57:17 pm
I don't care what anybody says, that is fine work. ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on December 24, 2007, 08:34:27 am
Pugsy, are you going to run your wires forward and then along the valve cover? Looks great! Very unique!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 87GMC2WD on December 24, 2007, 08:41:17 am
amazing, ive fabricated snowblower holders and all sorts of trailers and home-made pullers, but i dont think i could ever do this. Dont know if id have the pateince.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 24, 2007, 09:24:53 am
WOW - I can't say enough - WOW.  Great work. 

Thanks for the pictures pugsy and vile.  I am thinking of making an engine stand, when I am done with this truck.

I don't care what anybody says, that is dam fine work. ;D

amazing, ive fabricated snowblower holders and all sorts of trailers and home-made pullers, but i dont think i could ever do this. Dont know if id have the pateince.


Thanks guys. I still have to find the patience to finish the other side along with 1 more exhaust pipe as well. :o
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 24, 2007, 09:29:44 am
Pugsy, are you going to run your wires forward and then along the valve cover? Looks great! Very unique!

Thanks for the reminder. I've got to figure out the wires before ceramic coating. I may weld tabs to screw wire holders to if needed to keep them away.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 28, 2007, 09:42:42 am
I ground down an 18mm s/s nut with a zipcut disc to use as an o2 sensor bung.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 28, 2007, 09:48:27 am
Round peg in a square hole. I had to stretch the corners out with a hammer and punch.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on December 28, 2007, 11:11:05 am
Very cool Pugsy!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: ccz145a on December 28, 2007, 11:31:52 am
Nice work!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: jonkmbll89 on December 28, 2007, 06:15:52 pm
Nice job.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 28, 2007, 07:32:09 pm
Very cool Pugsy!
Nice work!
Nice job.

Thanks guys.

I've got the driver's side about 1/2 finished . Hopefully I'll be done soon and out for ceramic coating. I'm curious about the kind of dyno results I'll get with this upgrade.

Most importantly to see if my air/fuel ratio gets better. If not, more trouble shooting to do....... :P


Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 79SHORTWIDE on December 30, 2007, 09:34:30 am
WOW! I thought I had a decent amount of patience...........looks like you got me whooped. Awesome looking work !
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 30, 2007, 10:13:16 am
Thanks.

Driver side pics:
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 30, 2007, 10:15:13 am
A few more:
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 30, 2007, 10:19:12 am
Test Fit:

I had to jack the engine up,remove the motor mount and bracket,remove the clamshell and then slip the header in. Then I had to loosely bolt everything back in place,drop the engine and bolt up the header. Luckily there is clearance everywhere. Just have to grind a small relief in the rocker cover.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: jonkmbll89 on December 30, 2007, 10:35:42 am
Nice fit. Looks like there was no room for error. ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 31, 2007, 08:26:52 am
Thanks.

It is a tight fit. I have to make a small relief on the frame on the passenger side. It clears by about 1/8" , but I don't think that's enough as the engine does have a bit of movement.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 31, 2007, 06:55:39 pm
Done!  ;D  Just need ceramic coat. ;)
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Redneckchevy on December 31, 2007, 07:17:08 pm
Wow pugsy...for somthing that wild ...id give the shirt off my back...Great job man
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on December 31, 2007, 07:18:48 pm
Pugsy's brain headers
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: werewolfx13 on December 31, 2007, 09:20:07 pm
....wow...just looking at those made me lose all my patience for anything tedious for next year  :o

Looks good though ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 01, 2008, 08:28:06 am
Thanks guys.

They do look a little like raw brain , don't they?   ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: JJSZABO on January 01, 2008, 12:37:02 pm
WOW!!!  WOW!!!  WOW!!! :o :o :o

When can I order my set?

Pugsy - great job!!!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 85MudMonster on January 01, 2008, 02:45:29 pm
They look very sweet!! Great Job!

But when are we gonna get to see how they do on the dyno?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 01, 2008, 05:20:55 pm
Thanks guys.

After I finish the dual exhaust. I can send them out for ceramic after I get the exhaust finished. Don't know how long that will take.

On to the "H" Pipe:
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 01, 2008, 05:23:56 pm
More "H" Pipe:
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 1976Scottsdale on January 01, 2008, 05:26:22 pm
Very very nice.  talk about when chrome is not enough. 8)
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 85MudMonster on January 04, 2008, 10:13:40 pm
Awesome! ;D This project of yours has me itching to do some work of my own to my truck, but I've gots no monies!! :'(
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 05, 2008, 07:47:48 am
Thanks Guys.

Interesting thing.......I believe the single cat I had on there was up to 5 liters. This was OK when I had the 283 in there, but then I dropped the 350 in and it caused some choking issues. I'm installing the duallies now with two  2-1/2" cats ( good to 5 liters each) and thrush turbo mufflers. It should breathe alot better.

I'm thinking I should get better dyno results than I was expecting.

Comments?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 05, 2008, 07:53:51 am
Do you even need Cats? Here it's 25 years old and you're exempt.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 05, 2008, 08:01:36 am
Do you even need Cats? Here it's 25 years old and you're exempt.

I was nailed on my 79 for no cats. We're exempt from emissions testing after 20 years but its illegal to remove any factory installed pollution devices.

I've got the "H" pipe already done up. I'll be posting pics of the complete system later.

Thanks,
Pugsy
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 05, 2008, 08:04:11 am
So get a reproduction sticker for your model year that says NON-Catalyst. Classicparts has them I believe. If the truck is already reg'd I wouldn't put the cats on it.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 05, 2008, 08:13:29 am
These are not cops we're dealing with up here, but environmental officers. They radio into their office and someone tells them what this truck is supposed to have on it.

Maybe I should just punch out the guts as they are only looking to see if they are installed.I don't know if they will check the exhaust after they see the cats or not. ???
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 05, 2008, 08:18:19 am
So if your underhood VECI label says the truck was not factory equipped with a Catalyst there's nothing they can do, if it ever even got that far.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 05, 2008, 11:19:10 am
Apparently these guys have ways of knowing....I'm sure they won't give a toot about any label.

I'm thinking about gutting them. Any problems with this idea?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 05, 2008, 02:18:32 pm
The only way you would know is by the VECI label.

You could gut the cats but I'd rather spend $3 bucks on a label then $200 on cats just to smash their guts out
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: werewolfx13 on January 05, 2008, 06:22:42 pm
Pick up a set of used cats from a junkyard..they can't SELL them to you, but they'll almost always let you take them from vehicles they're about to crush, especially if you buy somthing else while you're there. Hollow those out and you won't feel like you're blowing money away.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: zieg85 on January 05, 2008, 06:56:47 pm
Pick up a set of used cats from a junkyard..they can't SELL them to you, but they'll almost always let you take them from vehicles they're about to crush, especially if you buy somthing else while you're there. Hollow those out and you won't feel like you're blowing money away.

Good luck with that, Cats are a gold mine.  There was a guy on the news today arrested with a sawzall in hand laying under someones car trying to steel it. 
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 05, 2008, 07:37:04 pm
Universal cats up here are from 60 -90  dollars. The 180 dollars to gut and have their presence under the truck when the sniffer cops take a look is cheaper than the 380 dollar ticket. After the first ticket, they keep their eye out for you. I got pulled over by them 6 months after I got my last ticket.

I will probably leave them in tact and see how the next dyno run goes with them on. If I am not happy with it, I will gut them.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: werewolfx13 on January 05, 2008, 07:42:35 pm
...Yeah..I used a cordless sawzall to hack the ones off the cars as they were being loaded on the crusher when I got the victim cats for my '84. Cut 6 of em off, used 2 matching ones for my truck, gave the other 4 and my old one that was on the truck to the friend that was doing my exhaust for me. 99.9% of the time, any late 70s into the 80s cars sitting in a junk yard still has its cat(s). Emissions tested areas may not have as many available I guess, but I guarantee if I went to either junk yard thats fairly close to me on monday, within 3 hours I could have the bed of my truck half full of old converters...Course, I'd be cold, wet, muddy, and very miserable, thanks to the marvels of melting snow.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: werewolfx13 on January 05, 2008, 07:47:30 pm
If they actually test for emissions, by all means leave them in tact..or if you live NEAR a city that tests, or think you might move to one that tests..I figure it'll be atleast 20 years before my area sees emissions testing, and my '84 probably wont leave this area unless its been crushed and is on its way to be recycled. I gave it to my dad when I bought my '83, and its never been the same since.  :'(
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Captkaos on January 05, 2008, 10:22:22 pm
If they are good cats, they won't have much bearing on your dyno numbers.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 05, 2008, 10:26:20 pm
Cars always used to come in with the heat shields falling off around the cat so I had a stock pile of them laying around. If I had a vehic that needed cats I'd weld the shield around the pipe and they always fell for it! lol ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: werewolfx13 on January 06, 2008, 01:08:11 am
I hadn't thought of passing the heat shields off as cats..thats a good idea  :D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 06, 2008, 04:56:52 pm
Duallies finished. Just got to get the ceramic coat and put everything back together.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 06, 2008, 08:51:22 pm
Do your mufflers clear your driveshaft?

I am having a hard time getting my headers re-coated since every place that used to do it is out of business around here  :'(
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 07, 2008, 05:37:07 am
Do your mufflers clear your driveshaft?

I am having a hard time getting my headers re-coated since every place that used to do it is out of business around here  :'(

I have about 3/4" clearance from the driveshaft.

How much were they charging to headers when they were in business? Its $325.00 here for SBC headers.

I was thinking its way too much ,but if they charge too little they will go under. I wonder if it really cost them so much to do this or are they gouging like most of the other companies with anything to do with automotive restorations.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 07, 2008, 12:44:40 pm
A set of headers was like $160-$200
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 07, 2008, 01:05:07 pm
A set of headers was like $160-$200

That's cheap. Could be why they closed up?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 07, 2008, 03:37:34 pm
For around $300 bucks you can buy brand new headers already coated... I'd rather do that then have mine redone for that price. There's another company I'm gonna call today if I can find their #. I'll let ya know what they say.

*edit
Their website shows $250 for V8 manifold http://www.northeastcoatings.net/?hightemp
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 86 chevy silverado on January 07, 2008, 04:38:18 pm


I am having a hard time getting my headers re-coated since every place that used to do it is out of business around here  :'(
[/quote]
 Airborne coatings in East Hartford, and there is a place off rte 5 in so windsor, hook a left @ McDonalds if your going towards Enfield its an industrial area near Cusson auto. (I cant remember the name of the place, I think there still there). My buddy works @ Airborne- did all my powdercoating. Do a great job but can be pricy.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 07, 2008, 04:41:41 pm
I used to use Airborne and they're gone out of business from what I've been told by them. Are you sure that your buddy still works there? Two of my friends used to work there too. Doug and Mike. Not sure where the place in E.Windsor is.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 86 chevy silverado on January 07, 2008, 04:54:36 pm
Yes it is still open. He has been working there forever, he's one of my Chevelle buddys.
I just tried to get him on the horn but he is MIA, I left a message to call me. His brother works at Cusson, I'll try to get the name of the other place.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 07, 2008, 04:59:07 pm
Is it Plas tec coatings? When you get ahold of your buddy at airborn ask him how much to recoat my BBC full length headers. Sorry for the thread hijack Pugsy
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 86 chevy silverado on January 07, 2008, 05:18:10 pm
I'm also sorry!
I just talked to my buddy. This is what he told me; It is still technically Airborne Coatings still but is called Central CT. Coatings. There was a 3 way ownership that disolved and had to change the name. He told me approx. $235 for the pair of headers inside and out.
The other place in So Windsor is called Plas tec like you said, My buddy told me people were having problems with their (Plas tec) header coatings but was clear that it was 'hear say' and was not bashing.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 07, 2008, 05:41:52 pm


Sorry for the thread hijack Pugsy

No problem. We're on topic.


He told me approx. $235 for the pair of headers inside and out.



Like I said about gouging earlier.... Up here in Canada its absolutely LUDICROUS what is going on!




Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: the dan on January 08, 2008, 12:10:37 am
Do your mufflers clear your driveshaft?

I am having a hard time getting my headers re-coated since every place that used to do it is out of business around here  :'(

o man! i didnt know you were in CT, i can second that, the guy my brother sent his to went out of business, he had a 3 year warentee on them as well and the gy just didnt show back up to the shop, called the cops to get his headers back, im pretty sure this guy was in rockyhill
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 08, 2008, 06:40:26 am
Where are you the dan?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 85MudMonster on January 09, 2008, 12:08:58 pm
I don't really like much about where I'm stationed at other than their complete lack of respect for the environment. The only ordinances they have down here are noise ordinances, which means you have to have mufflers at least, but no cats. However the federal law is that any vehicle made with a cat has to have one, and if you go to another state, they probably require them. I know that Cali checks as you cross the boarder into the state.

Looks good though pugsy, can't wait for the dyno results!!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 09, 2008, 07:33:47 pm
Thanks. I should be getting everything together this weekend for a test drive.

I found a pinch in my return line.Its 1/2" long and squished completely. I guess this could cause it to run rich?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 09, 2008, 07:46:58 pm
It sure can. How'd that happen?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 09, 2008, 08:09:35 pm

It was a line that I had on there before that I was using for the vent. I guess I never noticed the kink in it when I first built my truck.I hooked it up for the return line as it was 5/16" and I ran a new 1/4" line for the vent. I noticed it when I was crawling around under there doing up the duallies.

So I guess this could account for some poor milage, eh?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 09, 2008, 08:22:35 pm
Absolutely!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 09, 2008, 08:35:29 pm
Beautiful. Things should be looking real good soon! :o ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 85MudMonster on January 09, 2008, 09:04:41 pm
I'm so eager!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: the dan on January 09, 2008, 10:31:23 pm
Where are you the dan?

Middletown

btw pugs. those headers are awsome, i wish i was good at fab work like that
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 12, 2008, 06:39:34 pm
Thanks Dan.

Got her goin and she's burnin the tires pretty good.  ;D Actually burning 1 tire. Looks like I need posi now. ;)

Got to cruise around today as there's no salt on the roads. It rained all week here and washed it away. Hopefully it stays good for a couple more days so I can get the dyno done.

It really feels like an improvement. I can burn the tire going from a straight start now. It would only burn it on a turning start before.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 12, 2008, 07:09:35 pm
Pugsy what trans and rearend do you have?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 13, 2008, 07:06:36 am
I got a TH350 and 3.40:1 gears. It smokes the 31's with no problem now.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 13, 2008, 05:01:50 pm
Went for a 61 mile cruise city/hwy combination. About 20 MPG.

HOLY  #@##$&%!!!!!!

WAHOOOOOOO!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: werewolfx13 on January 13, 2008, 06:04:04 pm
Nice, good to see all that patience has paid off. Do you mark the increased economy more to the headers or to fixing that fuel line?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 13, 2008, 06:13:46 pm
I'd say more to the headers and the dual cats/exhaust. I discovered that I had one 5 liter cat on the single exhaust. I believe that was causing the most choking in the exhaust system.

When I cut off the piece of  pinched return line , I discovered that it wasn't closed all the way as it appeared. I could easily blow thru it.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: JJSZABO on January 13, 2008, 07:00:42 pm
Congratulations pugsy

20MPG  Not toooo shabby :)
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 85MudMonster on January 15, 2008, 09:27:08 am
20 MPG!!!  :o :o

Oh, man! I wish I could get that....I'm jealous now....
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 15, 2008, 10:08:14 am
Great! Did you get your headers coated?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 15, 2008, 04:45:22 pm
Great! Did you get your headers coated?

Yessir.

Dyno tommorow. ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Captkaos on January 15, 2008, 05:34:39 pm
Those looks great.  Definitely post you dyno numbers!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: JJSZABO on January 15, 2008, 06:32:07 pm
WOW - purdy!! :D

Can't wait for the dyno numbers.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 16, 2008, 02:34:21 pm
Thanks guys.

Good thing I originally thought to go to the dyno. I went there originally with167.73 max HP.
Today with new air breather and headers I have 212.99 rear wheel HP.
Net improvement:45.26 HP

Original run for torque:245.72 ft/lbs torque.
Today with breather and headers : 292.52 ft/lbs torque.
Net improvement: 46.8 ft/lbs torque.

Headers only improvement: 23.09 HP
                                       26.65 ft/lbs torque

Also improved is the air/fuel ratio. You can see it running nicely beside the dashed line at the bottom.
HP and torque are not huge but it smokes the tires , takes off great and is getting good milage.
PERFECT! ;)



Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Captkaos on January 16, 2008, 02:56:30 pm
MUCH better!!!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on January 16, 2008, 05:23:14 pm
Nice! So what did they charge you to dyno it?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: jonkmbll89 on January 16, 2008, 07:41:13 pm
Your headers look good under the hood.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 16, 2008, 08:05:38 pm
Nice! So what did they charge you to dyno it?

$100. First time was $140. I think I made a good investment with this. They pegged the problems right on the head. I'll save that in fuel in not much time at all.


Your headers look good under the hood.


Thanks. The fella at the dyno said equal lengths weren't too important but I think its best to do things properly. She runs real good so I think every little bit helps.

I do have a little bit of a rough idle still and in drive at a stop. Dyno dude said probably because of the cam??? Don't know if I'll bite on this one.
Any comments on this one guys?

Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 85MudMonster on January 16, 2008, 10:26:56 pm
WOW!!! Some nice gains. good work. ;)
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Redneckchevy on January 16, 2008, 10:31:09 pm
Sweet job! im impressed with the horse power gain !
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Captkaos on January 17, 2008, 09:59:18 am
What is the cam specs?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on January 17, 2008, 05:22:10 pm

Comp Cams: 12-206-2
                  CS 260H-10

Operating Range: 1200-5200 RPM
Duration Advertised: 260° Intake / 260° Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 212° Intake / 212° Exhaust
Valve Lift w/1.5 Rockers: .440'' Intake / .440'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 110
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Captkaos on January 17, 2008, 06:06:08 pm
The tight lobe seperation is probably doing it, usually want something a little wider on a ECM controlled car, Like above 112, but it should "hurt" it..
For comparison, this is the specs for a stock LT1..   202@ .450/ 207 @ .450 (1.5RR) 117 LSA
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: fer79 on November 06, 2008, 11:25:14 am
very nice, great job, congrats...
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: HAULIN IT on November 08, 2008, 07:38:05 am
Pugsy, That is a REALLY impressive exhaust system you've made there! I love to see craftsmen at work. Good Job!  Lorne
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 08, 2008, 03:50:43 pm
Thanks guys. ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: CruzinHigh on November 09, 2008, 10:12:44 am
Yea, this is a fantastic job.   Those headers are amazing Pugsy!

Great net gain too.  Sure does make it worth all the hard work when a project comes out like this one huh?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on November 09, 2008, 10:30:16 am
Pugsy where have you been?
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 09, 2008, 11:46:10 am
Hey Vile.

I've been busy on 41 the New Yorker. I've been recording my build in my Hotrodders project journal.

I've also been hanging around the Metalmeet site learning about beating on steel to make panels for the front end chopping of the car. One of the local guys invited a bunch of us down to his place and I learned how to beat a panel and use the wheel. Of course I then had to make one for myself.

Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: VileZambonie on November 09, 2008, 12:55:31 pm
Sweet!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 09, 2008, 01:30:13 pm
Thanks.

The stock look is not so great, so I'm using 37 Ford teardrop headlights and gonna try to mimic the look of a Willys front end.
Its gonna be a ton of fitting compound curved panels. :o
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Captkaos on November 10, 2008, 04:02:43 pm
SWEET!  How about a link to it..
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 10, 2008, 07:24:49 pm

Thanks Chris.

Not much to see but I will be adding thru the whole build.

I'm thinking of getting a wrecked charger or 300C with a 6.1 HEMI as a donor car and use as many parts as possible.

Of course an LS7 has popped into mind , but I'm sure that will be out of the price range.

I got a few years to think about it as that's probably how long it will take to perfect the sheet metal work. I'd like this to be show car quality, maybe hit a few shows before I start destroying it by driving on the street.

Here's the link:

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/journal.php?s=ce877b8fb307e423d1a0ab79bc6f72b9&journalid=39830&action=view (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/journal.php?s=ce877b8fb307e423d1a0ab79bc6f72b9&journalid=39830&action=view)

Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: bigblue09 on December 09, 2008, 10:28:20 pm
great job on the headers!! i really wish i had the money to get headers and true duals. i still have about 4 more years of emissions :-\ so i have to have cats. im only 17 so i cant build my exhaust and i have no where to do it.  :-[ so looks like im screwed till i get a better job or till i dont need cats.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Ghazi67 on February 17, 2009, 01:57:19 pm
Pugsy,

cool headers U got there . . I wish I had your skill & patience

Thanks for sharing it
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on February 17, 2009, 03:09:05 pm
Pugsy,

cool headers U got there . . I wish I had your skill & patience

Thanks for sharing it


Thanks Ghazi, but my wife tells me I have no patience. ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: rockable on February 17, 2009, 08:41:16 pm
i just discovered this thread tonight, pugsy.  I am really impressed with the job you did on the headers. 

I have another project that I will soon get on that will require panel beating and english wheel work.  I'm planning to learn the old fashioned way, trial and error.  I've watched Ron Covell's DVDs and he makes it look a lot easier than it will actually be.  Looks like you've got the hang of it pretty good with that Chizler.
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on February 18, 2009, 04:22:14 am
Thanks.
Its a lot of fun making panels.
It is quite simple when you follow the flexible pattern. ;D
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 406 Q-ship on February 20, 2009, 02:22:24 am
Pugsy.......dang dude, I build have built headers for a living and I can say you went about tube routing in a unique way.  How are they for spark plug clearance and getting the plug socket on them?  The collectors you built are goregous, and it another pieces I have done myself (merge style) and you went about it in a unique way there too.  Building your own headers has a real good sense of accomplishment when you see them on a car.

Here is some of my handy work.

(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv2/Q-ship/portfolio/DSC_0001.jpg)
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on February 20, 2009, 04:50:49 am
Hice header Q.

I built them to have equal lengths and be able to use a socket on every spark plug.

No messing around when it comes time to pull a plug. ;)
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Captkaos on February 20, 2009, 11:14:50 am
Nice work Q!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Bitzer! on February 22, 2009, 04:58:04 pm

You guys are the dogd rear swingers- ...... pure class workmanship. If I had 1% of yr ability
I'd be happy! I was gonna post some pics of my truck but feel its not worthy!
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 327power on November 07, 2009, 11:13:18 am
Why run cats??...What year is your truck? I have an 81' C10 that is going to have true duals with just mufflers.
I wouldn't be caught dead with cats on one of my classic trucks! Just my opinion. Great job on the headers though!
Very inspiring! 8)
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 09, 2009, 07:06:46 pm
Why run cats??...What year is your truck? I have an 81' C10 that is going to have true duals with just mufflers.
I wouldn't be caught dead with cats on one of my classic trucks! Just my opinion. Great job on the headers though!
Very inspiring! 8)

Thanks.

Gotta keep all factory emissions equipment that came with the vehicle or a nice $380.00 fine up here in Ontario, Canada.
I got nailed on my 79 already so I got them on this truck as well.
I'm not sure how much performance they are robbing me of, but I do know that the truck goes pretty good.

I may put cats on my 41 Chrysler. By the time I got it finished, I'm sure the tree huggers will have forced a law stating all cars must pass emissions requirements. I'm sure its not far away..........


Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 327power on November 10, 2009, 08:22:30 am
I'd just pay the fine...or better yet, just run a straight pipe through the cat so its basically just a decoy. I don't like cats not just because they limit performance, but they also have a muffling affect that makes the exhaust note softer when used with mufflers.
You really did an outstanding job on those headers, man! You got me thinking about fabbin' up a rightious set of fenderwell headers for my 81'! Too cool. 8)
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: Layne on November 10, 2009, 06:33:13 pm
Could you tell the enviro police that you have the f44 option??? My 77 has it, and the guy at the shop said he wouldn't touch it with no cats, until I taught him about the heavy half. hahaha
Title: Re: Homemade Headers
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 10, 2009, 07:20:56 pm
Nah...the cats don't bother me in the least.