hurst shifter, saginaw 4speed shiftin problems, i need help please

[latimermichael88]

i have a 79 Chevy c10 with a 350, Saginaw 4 speed and a Hurst shifter. i recently bought the truck. I was told there was a problem with the transmission and/or shifter. i pulled the tranny out, pulled the side cover and everything is in good shape. i installed new bushings on all the shift rods put the tranny back  in and on the first drive i had some problems shifting in the gears. at a stop sign i attempted to shift into first but it wouldn't go. it was almost like it was stuck in 2 gears. after i was kinda rough with it it finally came out of gear. i drove it back to the house but was still having problems finding the correct gears. could somebody please point me in the right direction. 

[latimermichael88]

OK so i just crawled under and put a bolt in the shifter to hold the rods in the correct position. i had to adjust 3rd-4th gear rod about 8 turns to get it right. i had to adjust 1st-2nd gear rod 2 turns to get it right. now the problem im having is when i shift back to neutral from 4th sometimes it will try to stay in gear. Also it wont go into 1st from a stopped position i have to shift from 2nd to get it to go into 1st. what should i do now?

[dvdswan]

welcome from the PNW.  when you pulled the trans out did you look at the clutch, pressure plate, etc?

[latimermichael88]

no i only pulled the gearbox and tailshaft. i left the bellhousing bolted to the motor.

[Greybeard]

Welcome...

I don't know much about a Saginaw but if the synchros are worn it will display some of those problems assuming of course that the linkage is finally correct. Are you test shifting it with or without the engine running? I've come across a lot of trans that simply do not want to shift correctly with a dead engine yet work correctly when it's running. You said you had trouble when driving the first time, was the second also when you were moving? When you put the bushings in how did the tips of the shift forks look? Any wear here could cause short movement of the gears resulting in the feel of a locked in place gearset.

Best remedy? Buy a Muncie....LOL!

I looked this up just in case it might help>>>

[latimermichael88]

when i had the side cover off the shift forks looked good. although i probably should have measured them. the synchros looked worn but i thought they were probably still good. i was test shifting both ways. when it is not running it shifts a little smoother than when it is running. ill crawl under again and check my linkage again just to be sure. if i still cant get it figured out i guess ill pull the whole thing back out and start from the beginning.

[latimermichael88]

ok so heres where in at. i pulled the shifter, drilled and tapped the holes for the stop bolts theraded the bolts in, bolted the shifter back in hooked up the linkages correctly. got in the truck, ran it through the gears and it was smooth like butter. then i start the truck run it through the gears and i have the same problem as before cant get 1st without going to 2nd and so on.

[Captkaos]

Are you saying you have to put it in second before you put it in first?  Does it come out of first ok?

[latimermichael88]

yes i have to put it into 2nd before it will go into 1st. yes it comes out of first ok.

[Captkaos]

Does it go into reverse ok with the engine running?  If not have you adjusted the clutch any?  If it is trying to shift into 2 gears at once still that is a linkage issue, you need to shift it in gear while someone watches, a rod may need adjusting.
If these aren't the issue I would start suspecting the syncros...

[latimermichael88]

It goes into reverse great when the engine is running. 1st is the only gear it does not want to go into. I have not adjusted the clutch.

[zieg85]

If it goes into reverse fine with the engine running that rules out a weak pressure plate.  It is probably 1st gear syncro as you say if you go to second then first it works.

[Greybeard]

Since I'm not familiar with the Saginaw, what weight or type oil does it use? Might want to thicken it up some to help slow down the gears before trying to get it into first. If the synchros are worn out this is a cheap patch till you can get to rebuilding it. And while you have it out switch to a better transmission (muncie / 465 / ). Usually that helps a lot also.  . And while you do that, upgrade the plate and flywheel with some TLC and a good needle pilot bearing. If that is going bad you will have all kinds of hard to diagnose issues. Even stiff old grease in a still good pilot bushing will cause the transmission input shaft to spin too fast after clutching no matter how much clutch adjusting you do. Putting it in a different gear first helps slow that input shaft down enough to slide it into 1st. Just some things to think about, nothing concrete here. But since you had it out I assume you relubed or changed the pilot bushing and bearing retainer surface anyway so YMMV. 

Stupit question.... is the clutch fork installed correctly? and not bent.
 IIRC it's possible to install it behind the throwout bearing groove and still have it work (somewhat). But it makes it a bear to shift because the bearing is always slightly engaged. If it's bent it won't move far enough to disengage. If one of the retaining clips is broke it shouldn't work at all but it might. and if the pivot ball is loose or worn it can cause some issues also. But since the Saginaw weighs about ..what? twelve pounds?  it's not a big problem playing around with it. Hahahaha.       

If it was possible to it screw up, I probably screwed it up at least once in my life.  The school of hard knocks.