Improper Starter Engagement

[LTZ C20]

Update: Got the 3rd starter, (I should start collecting extra starters and flexplates just in case haha), got it shimmed up passes the paper clip test. The engagement depth and gear to gear mesh is most excellent now. Sounds good, cranks good. I left the distributor and fuel pump unplugged for a few hours last night, every 15 min or so I would crank it for 3-5 seconds just to keep rechecking my work. Has been working good, every once in awhile today to I start it really quick. I wanna keep rechecking it so I know I won't have to do this again. Been working great so far, knock on wood.

THANK YOU all for all of your great help as usual. So far another problem solved with this site and it's members.

[bd]

Update: ...I should start collecting extra starters and flexplates just in case....

Hmmm.  You could found a GM starter museum and apply for nonprofit status....   

[LTZ C20]

Update: ...I should start collecting extra starters and flexplates just in case....

Hmmm.  You could found a GM starter museum and apply for nonprofit status....   

Haha, that would be an interesting endeavor. GM starter and alternator museum... that place would probably be pretty electrifying. (Pardon the pun lol)

[fitz]

  Like I always say, the third starters a charm.
  Glad to hear that the trucks running again.
  Did you ever make the starter bracket for it?
  I gotta admit, on SB Chevy's I always tossed the starter bracket in the trash. I don't know why (just lazy I guess).
  I've never run into a problem, but in your case, I think its worth buying or making a starter bracket.
  Maybe the Engineers at GM put a little more thought into it than I did as a 17 year old high school kid with a camaro.
  One more thing to consider is buying new GM starter bolts.  Like the starter bracket, I never thought twice about reusing starter bolts.  Now that I have a small fleet of 6.2 powered Chevy's, my thinking has changed.  Many  6.2 engine blocks have been damaged by not using the starter bracket (especialy when using the heavy direct drive starter).  The articles I've read online recommend replacing the 6.2 started bolts whenever they are removed.  I don't think they are torque to yield bolts, but I've heard horror stories of the bolts snapping off in the block when reused. Granted this is probably due to the started dealing with the high compression of the 6.2, but in your case, it may be cheap insurance.

[LTZ C20]

Yea 3rd starter and 2nd flexplate have been working like a charm so far. My truck never had a bracket when I got, my 97 doesn't have one, doesn't been it didn't disappear sometime before I got it and my 91 camaro never had one either. I have the gear reduction starter on the truck and now that I got it shimmed properly, I don't think I'll need the bracket. It's definitely alot quieter during starting now. I got new bolts when I bought gear reduc. starter #1. Starter, bolts and flexplate are all GM parts from work. I will most likely be getting a heat blanket or heat shroud sleeve tho soon.

[bd]

If you added shims asymmetrically under the starter flange so that the flange is angled with respect to the block, the starter isn't evenly supported across its flange.  This can allow subtle flexing and result in added stress on the bolts.  Fabricate a support bracket for the heavy end of the starter.  That is, unless you want your next lesson in humility.  Installing a simple support bracket, now, is easy and relatively painless!

[LTZ C20]

Ok, so this bracket should go where? The heavy end would be the end that doesn't have any bolts and where on the block should the bracket go?

[bd]

There should be two 1/4" bolt holes in the side of the block directly above the starter butt plate and just below the deck surface (used to anchor spark plug wire looms, the oil dipstick tube and starters in various years).  You should be able to fabricate a simple brace from ~3/4" angle iron with a mounting hole at each end.  The limb of the angle iron normal to the block will need to be notched, bent and welded to bring the bottom of the bracket into alignment with a butt plate bolt (or some similar configuration that works with your particular starter).  It doesn't need to be beefy - just stout enough to stabilize the free end of the starter's mass against vertical movement.  Keep it simple and allow for ample clearance with the battery cable.

[LTZ C20]

Ok BD, I got ya, pretty sure I know what ya mean now. Also, what starter heat shields do you guys recommend?

I've been looking online at DEI and Heat Shield Products on Summit Racing, but the product links are from their manufacturer's website. These are the few I have been looking at.

DEI:

http://www.designengineering.com/category/catalog/design-engineering-inc/component-specific-products/ultra-shield-ma-starter-shield

HSP:

Specifically the #501000 here.

http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/automotive/component-specific-heat-shields/hp-starter-shield

Not sure but probably the #501070 here.

http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/automotive/component-specific-heat-shields/lava-starter-shield

I think that overall I'm considering going with the HSP 501000. However the 501070 seams better than all 3 and the DEI piece is the most expensive.

Opinions?

[LTZ C20]

Haven't obtained a heat shield yet. My only bone of contention with those is that they might deflect the heat from the headers but they retain the heat inside the starter. So I had a thought. Instead of putting a shield on the starter, I'm considering wrapping that area of the header with header wrap. This should help retain the heat from the exhaust and keep it in the exhaust. In turn, allowing the starter to be open as normal with constant air flow to help keep it cooler. Plus, it's on the right side so it won't affect the reading of the O2 sensor, I only have 1 and it's on the left side.

To me, this sounds more logical, what do you guys think?

[bd]

Heat shields may not function quite in the way that you're thinking.  The metalized layer(s) reflect(s) intense, direct radiant heat emitted from the exhaust, up to ~2,000° F.  The fabric layers help to insulate from convective heat while increasing shield durability and stiffening the shield to help maintain its shape.  The conductive heat that passes from the engine block through the starter frame is insignificant.  The primary concern for the starter is the intense heat radiated by the exhaust or exhaust leaks in the vicinity of the starter. 

Think of a Nomex hand and arm glove.  It doesn't cause your arm to overheat by trapping body heat, it insulates your arm from severe outside heat to protect it from burning.  The starter blanket doesn't keep the starter cozy warm, it protects it from broiling. 

So the bottom line is: "...six of one, half dozen of the other...."  The main goal is to shield against intense exhaust heat.  How you accomplish that goal is moot.

---------------------

FYI - I use the DEI-010402.  It does its job very quietly and there are no moving parts.       But, I won't defend it as superior to anything else, just convenient.

[LTZ C20]

That's exactly what I was thinking. If I gave the impression I expect the starter to be cool enough to keep my beer cold then I apologize. I know it's going to get hot, I just don't want it to broil it like you said.

I have 2 inch DEI wrap around the exhaust pipes running the full length of section of pipe that is under the cab. Helps keep floorboard heat down and works great. Being as I've had great luck with that, I'm going to employ it on the header tonight. My local O'Reilly's has the DEI wrap in black in stock with the steel locking ties. Buying those 2 items is the same as 1 heat shield. "6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of the other". Plus I have to make that support bracket also tonight.

I'm going to check my rear brakes tonight, letting the exhaust cool then I'll wrap and fab up that stuff.

Thanks for yours guys help again. Especially BD, extreme fountain of knowledge that guy is.

[bd]

That's exactly what I was thinking.... I expect the starter to be cool enough to keep my beer cold....

Hey!   If you figure out how to do that, you'll have my undivided attention!!!   I'll even look into a patent for you us!      (Always read the fine print).

[LTZ C20]

That's exactly what I was thinking.... I expect the starter to be cool enough to keep my beer cold....

Hey!   If you figure out how to do that, you'll have my undivided attention!!!   I'll even look into a patent for you us!      (Always read the fine print).

Haha ok deal.

[enaberif]

That's exactly what I was thinking.... I expect the starter to be cool enough to keep my beer cold....

Hey!   If you figure out how to do that, you'll have my undivided attention!!!   I'll even look into a patent for you us!      (Always read the fine print).

I do have a TEC cooler at home that could easily be setup to run on something like a starter lol.