Author Topic: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.  (Read 35914 times)

Offline Spool

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2018, 03:14:59 PM »
That Acronym list is excellent. Thank you.

Last night, I removed the distributor cap, put a touch of dielectric compound on the tip of the rotor and tower terminals.
I noticed that the inside of the tower terminals already had a mark on them from the rotor. I was surprised as I only had the engine running for maybe a total of 5 minutes thus far.

I removed all the spark plugs, gapped them to .45, coated the threads with 10/40 and torqued them all to 22.5

All the spark plug cables look great. As you said, there was a difference to the ends.
I didn't notice anything material wise, but DIST was printed on one end only. I connected all these ends to the Distributor cap.

She started up just fine. Very rewarding work.

Only thing now, is some of the spark plug cables are too close to my headers.
Others are resting on the valve covers and they will need to be protected.

The previous owner kinda did a poor job, in which he just wrapped portions of the spark plug cables with heat wrap/tape.

Would you be able to recommend a cleaner look in protecting the spark plug cables? Maybe sleeves would look better?

Offline bd

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2018, 05:29:06 PM »
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline Spool

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2018, 11:08:33 PM »
Maybe something like this?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-6326k

Any con's you foresee?
Do you think that material frays when cut?

Perhaps, I could cut each piece to length and harness with a metal zip-tie?

Offline bd

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2018, 09:11:11 AM »
Either cut it using a hot knife or singe the ends after cutting to control fraying.
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline Spool

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2018, 06:42:16 PM »
Alright... Back where I started somehow.

After the following:
-New spark plugs gapped at .45
-New spark plug cables, sparingly coated with dielectric compound
-New Rotor and Cap, also sparingly coated with dielectric compound
-New 12gauge power feed wire coming from ckt 3 on the bulkhead to the Tach Terminal on the Distributor cap.

She died on me today running some errands.
I was able to get the truck running after each step listed above, but haven't taken her out until today.

While backing out of a parking spot, she died.
Towed it home and took a reading on the power feed to the distributor which read 12.27volts.

Any idea what to check next?
The truck sounds exactly as it did when it first died on the 19th; it cranks but won't start.

Offline bd

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2018, 06:52:08 PM »
Padawan, why did you connect the I+ lead to the tach terminal?  Move I+ to the BAT terminal of the HEI distributor cap and retry.  If it doesn't start, recheck for spark.
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline Spool

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2018, 07:56:10 PM »
Padawan,
Haha, I needed that laugh right now.

I confused myself, it's been connected to Batt all along.

Currently, there's no help available to crank the engine and check for spark. Hopefully tomorrow.

However, in the interim, I just took the dust cap and cap off to inspect it and the connection is strong and nothing is burnt.
Inspected all of my spark plug cables which are all healthy and also not burnt.
Disconnected the bulkhead to ensure ckt 3 was clean, which it is.
(The wiring on the passenger side needs work, but I'm saving that project for now considering I'm getting 12v at the distributor cap)

Why do you think I would be receiving no spark with all new gear?
I check to see if it runs after each step I take when replacing everything from the spark plugs to power feed.
Today, I drove within 2 miles which included me turning the engine on 4 times and off 3.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 03:12:00 PM by bd »

Offline bd

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2018, 03:17:28 PM »
Generally, checking for spark is the first step in diagnosing a no-start condition, then fuel, then compression and engine condition.
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline Spool

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2018, 07:44:58 PM »
So, there is a spark. It's not bright blue, but orange, and it seemed to be a bit chaotic as to where it was grounding.
Perhaps the gap is too big? The old ones I pulled were .30 and I gapped the new ones at .45

I tried to capture it on video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufgR4iEQiSc&feature=youtu.be

Now here's the kicker...
I figure I'd try again after reinstalling the spark plug and to my surprise, she starts.
It was a little rough so I kept my foot lightly on the gas before she died again about 45 seconds later.

I was starting to think it might be the ignition coil until I saw the spark, now I'm thinking it's fuel again.

My original thought was that I had destroyed my fuel pump by running out of gas on the 16th.
(I broke down on the 19th because of the poor connection of my I+ feed to my Distributor)
The fuel gauge has been broken since I bought the truck in Dec of 14'. Excuses aside; I'm certainly guilty of having had run out of fuel 4 or 5 times since then.

However, I can see fuel when I prime the carb.
You can also smell fuel under the hood and the carb is wet after priming.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 07:46:59 PM by Spool »

Offline bd

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #54 on: February 05, 2018, 09:01:21 PM »
That was a great video of the hose and frame....   :P

Healthy HEI has no struggle arcing a 0.045" gap (a few HEI equipped engines use spark plug gaps of 0.080"). 

No need to remove a spark plug from the engine to check for spark.  Reiterating from earlier in the thread, remove a wire from a spark plug and slip the boot up the wire until the terminal is exposed then hold the terminal about 3/4" away from the frame or exhaust manifold, etc.  If you would rather use a tool to make testing easier (and less shocking ;D), pick up an HEI spark tester like the one in the image.  Don't substitute.  The pictured tool has the correct gap to test HEI and most other electronic ignition systems.  The spark plug wire connects to the tool without having to move the boot, then the tool clips to a bare metal ground.  HEI should have no trouble jumping the prescribed test gap.



Crank the engine and post another (better) video.  If the engine starts and runs, run it until it quits then pull a plug wire off and recheck for spark.  You need to verify a strong and consistent spark before moving on to a/g else.  Don't get ahead of yourself.  Work methodically and patiently.

As long as there is sufficient fuel in the vehicle and the fuel isn't contaminated with water or other liquids, don't be concerned with fuel at the moment.
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline Spool

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2018, 10:07:08 PM »
...I know... I was terrified. My neighbor checked the spark last time, and I didn't see how he did it as I was inside turning the key.
I tend to exercise extreme caution when dealing with new things I don't yet fully understand; including electricity.
(You should have seen me when I was learning how to ride 8 years ago, I would hug that clutch...)

One worry I had was not knowing what to expect from the arc and not wanting it to arc to my phone.
I was also weary of cranking the engine for too long as it sounds terrible.
Is it okay to try to crank for 20 seconds when checking for spark?

I'll tape my phone with some gaffers cloth tape to a nearby hose for a better image.
I've attached an image with the boot off; do you think this would be an appropriate approach for testing for spark? (Again, learning curve with dumb questions. Your patience is more than appreciated)

I could try again tonight, but there is some condensation out there.
Would it be best to wait till midday tomorrow when it's dry?

There's now about 11 gallons in the tank.
It did however cross my mind that the fuel could have been compromised as I live in East Hollywood with a growing reputation of nonsense amongst vagrants and/or gangs.
My property is not gated, but I do have the luxury of a driveway where the truck can not be seen from the street.
I'd like to put that theory to bed as I believe someone would just steal the truck opposed to sabotage it. So I'd like to believe there is nothing but 87 octane in my tank.
The downfalls of living in an overpopulated city for work... I've been rethinking this for sometime now as well.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 10:09:50 PM by Spool »

Offline bd

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2018, 09:38:36 AM »
Don't be concerned about condensate.  Holding the wire as imaged is perfect.  Create a 5/8" - 3/4" gap between the wire and ground.  The maximum limit of the arc should be about 1" or so.  Keep in mind that testing for spark, while the no-start symptom is active, is important. 

Twenty seconds of cranking is a long time.  You should be able to verify a consistent spark in one-third of that time.  If you must crank the engine for 20-30 seconds, let it rest for at least a minute before cranking again to allow the starter to cool.
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2018, 11:17:37 AM »
and you mention the sound of the engine. what does it sound like? it shouldnt sound terrible
If you can’t tell yourself the truth, who can you tell it to?~Irish_Alley

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth ~Sherlock Holmes

Offline Henry

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2018, 02:11:42 PM »
Hi Spool:
You know, if you have replaced your coil, cap, rotor, spark plugs, plug wires at this point in time, the only electrical things to test before your go to fuel checks would be the module in the distributor base and the pick up coil in the distributor base below the module. The module is easy to remove and I believe it can be tested by car parts stores like Autozone. The pick-up coils can be tested in the truck with an ohm meter but their failure mode can be intermittent where they are tough to gauge whether they are bad or not...I will defer to BD to advise how you can test the pick-up coil. I have a oem HEI in my 76 and went through similar failure modes as you have only to finally come down to the pick-up coil replacement after replacing all the other electrical items and solving the intermittent stalling problem.
Regards,
Henry

Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: Fuel Pump? Truck died... Can't diagnose.
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2018, 02:35:39 PM »
If you can’t tell yourself the truth, who can you tell it to?~Irish_Alley

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth ~Sherlock Holmes