357 (350 - .40 Over) Build Questions Etc

[Mike81K10]

I am building a new engine. I disassembled my engine and took my Block, Rods, and pistons into a shop to be cleaned and inspected. Afterwards, I will get my new cast steel crank, rods, and pistons balanced at another shop.

Should I buy new heads or keep my OEM?
My heads are OEM (882), low miles on a rebuild 194 intake. I am thinking about buying a new set of cast steel heads with an intake valve of 2.020; exhaust valve 1.600. If I do go with the new heads, would it make much of a difference in HP and Torque.  Summit Racing™ Cast Iron Cylinder Heads for Small Chevy; Cylinder Head, Cast Iron, Assembled, 72cc Chamber, 165cc Intake Runner, Chevy, 302, 327, 350, 400.

The cam I plan to use is: COMP Cams Xtreme Energy 4x4 Cam and Lifter Kits CL12-235-2; Cam and Lifters, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 254/262, Lift .447/.462. Details of cam below.
Basic Operating RPM Range:
1,000-5,200
Camshaft Use:
Street/Strip
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:
210
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:
218
Duration at 050 inch Lift:
210 int./218 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration:
254
Advertised Exhaust Duration:
262
Advertised Duration:
254 int./262 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.447 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.462 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.447 int./0.462 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees):
111

[VileZambonie]

Drop those 882 heads in the ocean. All of your power is lost in those boat anchors. Spend the money and be happy. Also that cam is not a big power maker either, you may want to consider something with a little more bite.

[Captkaos]

882 heads are 76cc Chamber, 151cc intake vs the Summit 72cc Chamber, 165cc Intake Runner.  with the SAME pistons, compression will go up slightly and intake volume will increase, different pistons, different story.
With a cam targeting 5200rpm, IMO it would be a waste of money, not because they are bad or the cam is bad but because it appears that you are targeting low end power.

With that said what is your intended purpose of the build?  How are you expecting it to run/sound?  What is the trucks intended purpose?
what kind of pistons are you getting?  What is your target compression ratio?  what intake?  What trans? what gearing?  This needs to put together as a complete package IMO.

[Mike81K10]

I have .40 over flat top TRW 10-1 compression pistons. I was planning to continue using my Qjet Rochester Carb that is new. I have not bought the heads yet, would a set of aluminum heads be better? I have OEM rods that I planned to get balanced with my new crank if they check out good.

I want a dependable driver with better HP and Torque with a better response. Would like to be able to carry loads and tow/pull when needed.

I once build a 350 for a MonteCarlo (car was stolen and never found) I owned and is had a little thump to it. A racing engine shop in Florida did all my machine work and helped me with it. Cannot recall the cam I used but the car was very fast and had awesome response and I had a 750 Double pumper on it. They machine shop also did custom head work, port, polish, bored the heads to 2.020 intake, worked the valve seats, 3 angle valve work, heavy springs, and etc. Pic of my 77 Monte Carlo is attached and my formerly owned 76 Bronco (I wish I had kept).

For my truck, it does not have to be as radical at my MonteCarlo was.

I plan to buy a set of:
1) Hedman 304 Stainless Steel Headers 62093 - Headers, Long Tube, 304 Stainless Steel, Black Ceramic Coated, Chevy, GMC, Pair
2) COMP Cams Magnum Roller Tip Rocker Arms 1412-16 - Rocker Arms, Stud Mount, Roller Tip, Chromoly Steel, 1.52 Ratio, Fits 3/8 in. Stud, Chevy, Small Block, Set of 16 (for the Cast 2.020 Heads I planned to buy, unless I go with something else, like aluminum heads.
3) Also need to purchase new push rods

[Mike81K10]

My block and rods should be done by Wednesday of next week and then I need to get the rotating assembly balanced.

[Captkaos]

TRW 10-1 compression pistons what chamber size/volume is this compression number based on, deck height, gasket etc.
Were the .040" pistons chosen for bore cleanup?  Forged, cast, hypereutectic?
What Intake are you using?  It should be in the idle-5500 range.

I am trying to stay general here....
Aluminum heads are said to gain you detonation tolerance on higher compression but with a cap of 5200 RPM you wont ever see it. 
You also wont see massive hosrepower numbers as torque and horsepower numbers cross at 5250rpm and your cam range ends at 50rpm below that.
On heads, the bigger the intake volume the bigger the gain at high RPM, you wont see this with the cam you have and IMO 2.02 is overkill.

[Mike81K10]

The engine I am rebuilding was built in about 1989 for my K10 and pulled out of my truck with very low miles and replaced with a crate motor due to crankshaft bearing noise. The machine shop in CO did not do well on the crank. All I can remember is the pistons are TRW brand, .40 over, and flat top with four valve reliefs. It has been too long ago to remember much else about them. The machine shop had to bore my engine .40 because .30 would not get rid of a nick in one of the cylinder walls. There is about 1/8" gap at the top of the cylinder where the piston stops. Would imagine the pistons are cast, not forged, when I get them back from the shop that is cleaning and inspecting them with my rods and block I can get more info from them.

Do you have a cam recommendation for me to look at that might provide better performance than what I was thinking about. Might go with a different cam. I have yet to buy the cam and heads. I was not planning to get overboard with the cost because I would have bought a 383 stroker blueprint motor from summit if the cost got that high. I simply have the engine already and want it to have around 370 to 425 HP and good torque. I did buy a set of new head bolts, just did not feel like cleaning up the old ones.

My engine will go into my 81 K10, My Transmission CH465 (4 Speed – 117 mm) 1F  5    465452, Transfer case NP205, posi-traction rear end and I forgot my gear ratio, I believe it is 4.10 though - would be what my truck came with. Some time ago the rear end had to be completely rebuilt with new axles and some gears and I had the local chevy dealership do the work and make it posi-traction. Never had a problem with the rear end since.

I currently have an aluminum intake OEM on the engine sitting in my truck and have thought about finding a new one. So currently the intake is undecided as of yet and may buy a new one. I was thinking about the Edelbrock Performer EPS Intake Manifolds 2701 or some other one (undecided yet).

[JohnnyPopper]

This subject is way above my pay grade...

Having thought about the comments and desires; is a 383 with Vortec heads a viable combo?

Of course, valve diameter, cam lift, rollers, pistons, C/R, intake manifold can all be massaged to create the desired result, BUT..

Is the combo cited above a good starting point?

Asking for a friend...

[VileZambonie]

You really should measure the deck height and add in the compressed head gasket thickness to select the appropriate sized combustion chamber but it sounds like 64CC heads will be fine based on what you've stated. Are you running a roller cam retrofit?

[Captkaos]

OK, I was confused for a minute...  So you have a previous motor that had issues and you are using parts from it.  Reusing the pistons and block, buying new crank and rods.

Which Crate motor do you have?  What is its power level? Is it under powered?  I ask because that 4 speed is setup for HD work not speed..  Even if you had 500hp, it realistically only has 3 "good" gears, so it won't be winning any drag races.  Dont get me wrong, I LOVE those transmissions.  I am just trying to determine actual use.  370-425hp isn't going to happen with that cam, but it will probably give you good low end torque.

This for example is GM's 357/407 350 motor specs for comparison
Part Number: 19367080
Engine Type: Chevy Small-Block V-8
Displacement (cu. in.): 350
Bore x Stroke (in.): 4.000 x 3.480
Block (P/N 10105123): Cast iron with 4-bolt main caps
Crankshaft (P/N 10243070): Nodular Iron
Connecting Rods (P/N 10108688): Powdered metal
Pistons (P/N 88894280): Cast aluminum
Camshaft Type (P/N 12677151): Hydraulic roller
Camshaft Lift (in.): 0.473” intake / 0.473” exhaust
Camshaft Duration (@.050 in.): 215° intake / 223° exhaust
Cylinder Heads: Cast iron; as cast with 64-cc chambers
Valve Size (in): 1.940 intake / 1.500 exhaust
Compression Ratio: 9.0:1 nominal
Required Fuel: Premium pump
Maximum Recommended rpm: 5600

[Mike81K10]

The engine I am rebuilding is one I rebuilt some time ago and was pulled for crankshaft noise with probably less than 1,000 miles on it after it was rebuilt. Was told the crankshaft was OK by the Machine shop and they clean, machined the block .40 over and rebuilt the heads (1.94 - 882 heads). I pulled the engine and replaced it with a crate engine that now has some, what sounds like valve problems. I could repair it - but think I want to rebuild the engine I had pulled and has been in storage since about 1989 (the one I have been talking about). Pics has the serial and ID of the engine. The block is very clean and the cylinders still has the faint (light) cross hatch marks from when it was previously machined. I have it in a shop getting it cleaned because it set for so many years and I am replacing the cam bearings, although I never had a cam problem and the bearings will be damaged from cleaning it.

My crate engine (from Mexico) sitting in my truck is also a 350 4 bolt main (have not thought about rebuilding) with a 2 piece rear seal. Stock everything. Will use my new carburetor (Rochester QJet 4 Barrel). I actually have 2 like new carburetors. The intake on the crate motor came off my OEM engine that came with my truck. I am the second owner and bout the K10 when it was 4 or 5 years old from a dealership, where the original owner traded it for a new truck. It was a special ordered truck used with a slide in camper by the original owner in Colorado (where I bought it). The original engine was a 305 and I wanted a 350. I bought the 350 4 bolt main I am now working on again from a salvage yard. After the machine shop worked on the engine, I put it together and drove out of state in 2 days do to a move to Texas, had I more time I would have been more careful and caught the problem with the crank. The main bearings started making noise after about 500 to 600 miles. I pulled it at my destination and put in the crate engine because I got the completely new (not rebuilt) engine for $1,200. It does not have a lot of power (being stock) but was good. I did not have problems with it until recently after my rebuild, probably because it sat for years without being ran.

In the past I have used my truck for hauling a boat, hauling stuff in the bed, I sometimes use a bed cap as can be seen on my build page, and hunting. I may not do much hunting with it in the future (use something else) and I sold my boat.

I have enjoyed the 4x4 and in Colorado where I bought it I used it on some very tough trails, hauled firewood logs from the mountains, and took it on snow ski trips (some heavy snow roads and trails), but in Alabama now.

I have not thought about but will also check out running a roller cam retrofit as mentioned by VZ.

I am thinking about sending my new stock crankshaft I bought from summit back and buying a complete balanced rotating assembly so I wound have to worry about balancing what I have and perhaps aftermarket rods will be better. After all when buying everything seaport and paying for balancing it will not be much different on the cost. The rotating assembly I am thinking about is:

Eagle Street and Strip Rotating Assemblies B13005E040
(Of course I would not need the Automatic Flex plate and balancer - would have to talk with Summit about it)
I also have to find out if there in an internally balanced kit, This states it is externally balanced. This is just a start and if I find a better kit, will go with it. Then I need to purchase the cam, heads, and intake.

Brand: Eagle Specialty Products
Manufacturer's Part Number: B13005E040
Part Type: Engine Rotating Kits
Product Line: Eagle Street and Strip Rotating Assemblies
Summit Racing Part Number: ESP-B13005E040
UPC: 793348624211
Actual Engine Displacement: 6.3L/385
Rear Main Seal Style: 2-piece
Bore (in.): 4.040 in.
Bore (mm): 102.616mm
Engine Stroke (in.): 3.750 in.
Balanced: Yes
Piston Material: Hypereutectic aluminum
Piston Style: Flat top, with two valve reliefs
Harmonic Balancer Included: Yes
Flexplate Included: Yes
Flywheel Included: No
Pistons Included: Yes
Piston Head Volume (cc): +7.00cc
Wrist Pin Style: Floating
Piston Rings Included: Yes
Piston Ring Facing Material: Plasmamoly
Piston and Ring Oversize (in.): 0.040 in.
Crankshaft Included: Yes
Crankshaft Material: Cast steel
Engine Balance: External
Connecting Rods Included: Yes
Connecting Rod Length Center to Center (in.): 5.700 in.
Connecting Rod Material: Forged 5140 steel
Connecting Rod Beam Style: I-beam
Rod Bearings Included: Yes
Rod Bearing Undersize (in.): Stock
Rod Bearing Undersize (mm): Stock
Main Bearings Included: Yes
Main Bearing Undersize (in.): Stock
Main Bearing Undersize (mm): Stock
Cam Bearings Included: No
Gaskets Included: No
Oil Pump Included: No
Camshaft Included: No
Lifters Included: No
Timing Chain and Gears Included:No
Plastigage Included: No
Assembly Lubricant Included: No
Quantity: Sold as a kit.
Notes: Kit includes a 168-tooth flexplate for an automatic transmissions and new balancer.

[Mike81K10]

My truck use to be blue (OEM Color), so I painted the engine blue. Now my truck is red and the engine will be red and black.

[Mike81K10]

I just pulled the trigger and asked for a return label for my crankshaft, Rod bearings, and Main bearings. I bought an internally balanced kit instead. Now I will not have to worry about getting it balanced. Now will have to worry about the cam, heads, and intake.

The rotating assembly I ordered is:
Eagle Street and Strip Rotating Assemblies B15402E040
Brand:
Eagle Specialty Products
Manufacturer's Part Number:
B15402E040
Part Type:
Engine Rotating Kits
Product Line:
Eagle Street and Strip Rotating Assemblies
Summit Racing Part Number:
ESP-B15402E040
UPC:
793348805450
Actual Engine Displacement:
5.8L/357
Rear Main Seal Style:
2-piece
Bore (in.):
4.040 in.
Bore (mm):
102.616mm
Engine Stroke (in.):
3.480 in.
Balanced:
Yes
Piston Material:
Cast aluminum
Piston Style:
Flat top, with four valve reliefs
Harmonic Balancer Included:
No
Flexplate Included:
No
Flywheel Included:
No
Pistons Included:
Yes
Piston Head Volume (cc):
+7.00cc
Wrist Pin Style:
Press-fit
Piston Rings Included:
Yes
Piston Ring Facing Material:
Plasmamoly
Piston and Ring Oversize (in.):
0.040 in.
Crankshaft Included:
Yes
Crankshaft Material:
Cast steel
Engine Balance:
Internal
Connecting Rods Included:
Yes
Connecting Rod Length Center to Center (in.):
5.700 in.
Connecting Rod Material:
Forged 5140 steel
Connecting Rod Beam Style:
I-beam
Rod Bearings Included:
Yes
Rod Bearing Undersize (in.):
Stock
Rod Bearing Undersize (mm):
Stock
Main Bearings Included:
Yes
Main Bearing Undersize (in.):
Stock
Main Bearing Undersize (mm):
Stock
Cam Bearings Included:
No
Gaskets Included:
No
Oil Pump Included:
No
Camshaft Included:
No
Lifters Included:
No
Timing Chain and Gears Included:
No
Plastigage Included:
No
Assembly Lubricant Included:
No
Quantity:
Sold as a kit.
Notes:
Internally balanced requires neutral flexplate and balancer purchased separately. Suitable for use up to 500 horsepower.

[Mike81K10]

I am looking at my choices and one choice in addition the Cast Iron Summit heads are a set of Dart SHP Special High Performance Cylinder Heads 126121. They have a choice between:

Concerning heads, which is best (flat Tappet cam setup). A choice between 64cc or 72cc combustion chambers—and 180cc or 200cc intake runner ports.

PS: Also saw: Brodix Cylinder Heads IK 180 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Chevy 1021004
Combustion Chamber Volume (cc): 64; Intake Runner Volume (cc): 180cc

I know a bit about but am not very in depth knowledgable about heads.

I just received my rotating assembly, that was fast, only took one day. I will take measurements and inspect everything, if not satisfied I will return it for something else. Have not look it over yet.

[VileZambonie]

How about some aluminum heads instead?