HEI woes...

[jlane1820]

OK, this issue has probably been beaten to death, but I've had my fill with my ignition system. Every so often, my 82 C10 will not fire, and usually at a time when i really need it. My solution is to jump up under the hood and try the old hairspray under the distributor cap trick, which almost always results in an instant ignition once everything is back together. Easy solution, but it's becoming a real PITA having to do this every 2 weeks or so. So I am thinking of a way to improve my reliability in the ignition department. It's about the only area I haven't really upgraded...I have an Edelbrock top end set up with 1406 Performer carb, and the cam and intake to match, dual exhaust with headers, etc...nothing too aggressive, but my ignition is stock HEI. I've even played around with the timing, but no matter how advanced or retarded, it still happens (and I like to stay pretty advanced, 14°+). I've read a lot about CD ignitions from various mfg. but they all seem to point to more racing applications. I don't really race mine, it's a 305 with plenty of power for what I need it to do, and it's only my secondary vehicle. I'm just looking for something more reliable so the truck will fire when I need it. Would a CD ignition system with all the bells and whistles (dist, box, coil) be the ticket or overkill? Or is there a more reliable aftermarket HEI setup that would be more reliable, like the MSDs or Mallory with the hot modules? Any suggestions and experiences are greatly appreciated!

[Grim 82]

If the truck is still equipped with ESC (electronic spark control), that is probably your problem. I run an MSD Streetfire in my 82 K10 with a moroso recurve kit and it works great.

[jlane1820]

Isn't that that little can with the vacuum line going to it behind the dist? I have run it both with and without it connected to vacuum and either way it fires...sometimes. In other words, I've not seen any difference with or without it. Or does that refer to the module assembly inside the dist? I have recently, well 2 years ago replaced that and the coil with new parts but still stock, that never fixed it either.
I have seen the StreetFire MSDs which are nice, but with me being so bitter towards HEI right now, I wondered if an aftermarket HEI would still give me the same problems. But if you've had success, I won;t rule it out. Those are a lot cheaper and easier to install than a CD kit...

[Grim 82]

The can on the dist. is for your vacuum advance. The ESC is a computer box under the dash that recieves a signal from a knock sensor in the block and retards the timing when it detects pre-ignition. You can bypass the ESC but I found it easier to just replace the distributor with a non-ESC one, which is what the MSD is. HEI is a great setup, I would stick with it.

[Grim 82]

Here is how you can bypass it:
http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/escrepl.htm

They are notorious for working fine, then leaving you stranded, then working fine again for no apparent reason. This may not be the cause of your problem, but I would get rid of the ESC anyway.

[jlane1820]

Thanks for the info, Grim. The 'can' I mentioned isn't the vacuum advance on the dist, it's a little black can mounted to the firewall above the dist with a vacuum nipple on it. From the article you linked, it sounds like the vacuum switch that goes to the ESC. For a long time I ran no vacuum to it (and honestly didn't know I had ESC), but whether I did or didn't made no difference in how stubborn it was to start. Plus it seems to me the hairspray trick wouldn't cure an ESC issue would it? So I'm not entirely sure it's the ESC.

Either way, I hear so many rave about HEI that my gut tells me to stick with it. But I have had reliability issues with mine for the entire 11 years I've had the truck. I have changed so many things that it looks nothing like it did when I bought it, but one thing that has never changed is how hard it is to start. I know they are notorious for getting moisture under the cap, which is where the hairspray comes in handy and almost never fails when I spray it. Is this something everyone experiences and so often? I'm just so frustrated having to pop-n-spray that I would drop the HEI for a CD package in a second if I knew it would start more reliably, but if I can go with a better HEI and get the same reliability, I would. I just want a truck that fires when I need it to without going overboard with remedying it.

[VileZambonie]

What are you hairy spraying? If it's a hot soak crank no start the pick up coil is probably the culprit. Just get a whole new distributor sice they're so cheap now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-SBC-BBC-Chevy-Distributor-HEI-350-400-427-454-65K-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cf1858537QQitemZ330469573943QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[jlane1820]

Does hot soak crank imply the engine has been running and the heat has damaged the pick up coil? If so, mine only happens when it's cold and sitting for a day or 2. When I spray it, it almost always fires right up, then fires the rest of the day after. Maybe my pickup coil is just bad anyway, I won't rule that out, but why it fires after I spray the hairspray seems to tell me it's possibly built up moisture in the cap. An old mechanic friend of mine mentioned that happening, and taught me the trick and it has worked almost 100% of the time. You pull the cap and spray the inside of it then put it back on, the alcohol in the hairspray evaporates the moisture. But it sucks having to do that when you're expecting to use the truck.

On further reading of the article Grim linked, I'm not ruling out ESC either, since it says the connection to the pink wire from it can short out. If this is the case, then maybe the success of the hairspray is merely my imagination, and I am only 'unshorting' the ESC by pulling the wire when I pull the cap for an Aqua Net tune up. I plan on getting rid of it ASAP.

In either case, it sounds like ESC and my pick up coil could be bad, either one or both. Sounds like a new HEI dist could be the way to go. Now I appreciate the link VZ, and wow, that is cheap...almost too cheap to be true, and from experience, it usually is. I know a lot of you like the MSD stuff, which is more expensive, and Mallory makes some HEIs too. There's also ProForm, DUI, Accel and Pertronix HEIs. My money isn't burning a hole in my pocket, I would much rather use it for new seats and door panels than my ignition, but I would rather shell out the extra cash if it means a good, lasting and trouble free ignition. Any opinions on any of these HEIs or the one linked from ebay?

[Grim 82]

I think the one that Vile linked to is basically a stock replacement; non-HEI version. He wouldn't steer you wrong. The MSD Streetfire is basically a stock replacement as well from what I gather. It works great for me. Like I said I found it easier to replace the whole distributor so that you get all new components and simultaneously bypass the ESC.

[jlane1820]

I think the one that Vile linked to is basically a stock replacement; non-HEI version. He wouldn't steer you wrong. The MSD Streetfire is basically a stock replacement as well from what I gather. It works great for me. Like I said I found it easier to replace the whole distributor so that you get all new components and simultaneously bypass the ESC.

Oh I have a lot of confidence in Vile's suggestions. I figured he was showing me the cheapest route, which I appreciate too. But my built-up frustration over my ignition woes has given me a fix-it-at-any-cost mentality, which may be a pipe dream in itself. I guess I'm looking for a little better than stock, but not really an all-out racing set-up, if that's even possible. But I do greatly appreciate all of your suggestions and tips in helping me solve this!

[TexasRed]

Actually the one Vile showed you should be better than stock. It has a higher voltage coil, the module *may* be better, I'm not sure, but the higher voltage coil is prolly all you need for that 305.

[Irish_Alley]

what I'm thinking is you have a bad cap and the hair spay trick is working for you since it only happens after letting it sit for a couple days but like vile said and posted that one for around 40 a new cap and rotor would only be 25 bucks or so

[1980c10]

I used stock replacement HEI Accel dist from a local parts store in my 82 with a 305 and it worked great. btw It originially had a bad pick up coil.
By replacing you distributor you rule out a whole lot of stuff for not a whole lot of money.
When was the last time you tuned it up?

[Grim 82]

I think the one that Vile linked to is basically a stock replacement; non-HEI version.

What I meant to say was non-ESC version.

Like 1980c10 said, if you get a new distributor you won't have to try to track down a singular component that is failing. And, with something like the one Vile posted, an MSD, or an Accel, you will get a hotter coil as well. Then with new plugs and wires your ignition system will be in great shape.

[jlane1820]

I used stock replacement HEI Accel dist from a local parts store in my 82 with a 305 and it worked great. btw It originially had a bad pick up coil.
By replacing you distributor you rule out a whole lot of stuff for not a whole lot of money.
When was the last time you tuned it up?

Tuned it up last year with new plugs, wires, etc, but that certainly didn't address the stubborn starting issue. But, I bit the bullet and per Grim's success story, I picked an MSD StreetFire HEI yesterday to drop in along with the SF wires. Cost about $169 for all, so we'll see how it goes after I drop it in this weekend and will follow up. I also have a Summit advance spring kit I've never used, but thinking I could also drop in the lighter springs on the new dist. for some lower rpm advance...Good idea??

Also to Grim (or anyone who has dealt with an ESC): I popped out the glove box and could not locate an ESC module. Per the article, this should be the correct location for it, right? Is it possible my 305 never had it? Maybe it could have been removed? Like I said I have the little vacuum switch mounted on the firewall, which is actually a little more towards the passenger side above the dist. I am still confused as to whether this is the ESC vacuum switch or something else. The wiring that goes to it is definitely grouped in with the pink battery wire for the distributor (which enters/exits the firewall below this mystery vacuum switch), but I haven't looked for where they all connect, and the absence of an ESC module under the dash is really confusing things...any opinions?