73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Members Rides => Topic started by: winky on January 30, 2012, 11:47:47 am
Title: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on January 30, 2012, 11:47:47 am
ok well i guess i can go ahead and start a build thread since im starting on my blue truck.. haven't done very much body work.. fixed dents and shaved antenna holes on cars that's about it.. any information or suggestions you would like to make please do. i love to learn and if someone is willing to offer advice im always willing to listen. Plans so far... fix the body rust, add another fuel tank, build new engine (in progress), swap in a granny low (in progress), custom dash gauges, front and rear end swap, and who knows what else.. the build is going to be slow because im constantly using my truck for stuff (my truck is one of the bigger ones around so i tend to get called to help stuck people), sooo i have to do little bits at a time so it not down too long. starting on the rocker panels and cab corners tonight.. ill post pics as often as i can. thanks for looking.
truck cleaned up getting ready to start working on it (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/396251_2776913254346_1003530220_32265306_1209514796_n.jpg)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: beastie_3 on January 30, 2012, 05:52:04 pm
First thing that came to mind was getting both thanks working properly as well as ensuring the gauge reads correctly before you put the bed on. MUCH easier!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Engineer on January 30, 2012, 06:27:46 pm
Looks like you have a good starting point. :)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bake74 on January 31, 2012, 07:00:11 am
i love to learn and if someone is willing to offer advice im always willing to listen.
That statement right there ( if honestly true on your part ) will be the biggest asset you will have in your life and will make you successful at whatever you put your mind to. In my experience, a person who is honestly willing to take advice and opinions wherever they may come from and then decide if they are worth anything are the ones who always get the job done and come out on top. It never hurts to get advice, you just don't always have to act on it. I am with beastie, fix the tanks, sending units and make sure they work before installing bed again.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on January 31, 2012, 08:18:41 am
well one of my friends came over last night and three hours later this is whats left
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_0263.jpg) (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_0264.jpg) only engine left in, thats coming out tonight hopefully and the frame is going to get cleaned up friday (hopefully)
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_0262.jpg) one last little bit of play time in the truck before we tear it down :)
yeah bake im that way. there's always someone that's going to know a little bit more than you do no matter what it is. i tend to ask a lot of questions and most the time i already have an idea on how i want to do something. but there's always a catch some where or a trick that someone knows that can make the task shorter and possibly easier
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: firefighter on January 31, 2012, 08:43:00 am
Ummmm.... in your first post you said "the build is going to be slow because im constantly using my truck for stuff, sooo i have to do little bits at a time so it not down too long"
If having it down to the frame is "doing little bits at a time", I'd hate to see one of your big projects. Ha Ha !! ;D
I'll tell ya one thing, you're jumping in with both feet and at a full run. I'm looking forward to following your rebuild. I love the tearing apart process. It all happens so fast and you feel like you're getting so much done. Then.... comes..... the ..... putting..... back...... together..........
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: thirsty on January 31, 2012, 09:09:40 am
I'll tell ya one thing, you're jumping in with both feet and at a full run. I'm looking forward to following your rebuild.
^What he said! ^
I agree with what Bale74 said also. There isn't a part on these trucks that one of the forum members hasn't touched before. We've got you covered if you need anything. Looks like you got a lot to work with there already!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on January 31, 2012, 02:18:21 pm
lol, thanks everyone. the frame has very little surface rust (someone before me painted it and looks like they did a decent job) so hopefully i can get by with washing it real good the sanding a few spots and re painting. tonight it looks like im gonna be working on the cab. got a few rust spots to fix and then im gonna start prepping it for paint.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: jaredts on January 31, 2012, 05:25:14 pm
Did you already work on the rockers and cab corners? I doesn't look like it in the pics. I'd be concerned about doing rockers with the cab off, although I'm sure it can be done.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bake74 on January 31, 2012, 07:38:46 pm
(someone before me painted it and looks like they did a decent job) so hopefully i can get by with washing it real good the sanding a few spots and re painting.
My suggestion is to use either chassis saver or por-15 on the frame, it will last you a lot longer than paint will.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on January 31, 2012, 09:52:11 pm
Thanks everyone for the suggestions, and I have a new cab I just got
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 01, 2012, 09:05:57 am
blaaaahhhhh..... ran into problems... the new cab i have someone started to cut the cab corners off so i figured i could just spot weld them back.. WRONG.. it was going fine at first then i ground it all down and half the welds weren't actually welded... so finally got the welder adjusted and went to start back and now its just blowing holes threw it all and made a huugggeeee mess.. it only blows holes threw were Ive already welded and ground so i guess the metal was just too thin?? basically need a new driver-side cab corner now.. another problem was the gap between the two. i couldn't but them together cause it was still attached to the cab.. guess should have cut some out and came in with a piece to make it flush.. any input on my problems would be great. guess ill be ordering a new cab corner today. on top of everything apparently my auto shade welding helmet wasn't working right cause i have welders burn... only have one eye lol so it really sucks...
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: thirsty on February 01, 2012, 01:14:18 pm
i ground it all down and half the welds weren't actually welded... so finally got the welder adjusted and went to start back and now its just blowing holes threw it all and made a huugggeeee mess.. it only blows holes threw were Ive already welded and ground so i guess the metal was just too thin??
I would be willing to bet that the metal is too thin where you ground it. Try and use an abrasive disc instead of a grinder. When you get your new cab corners try and only use what you need to not the whole thing unless it is unavoidable. Be patient...and remember that it is only metal and people weld it everyday. You will get it.
Do something about that welding helmet first though...You can't read the forum unless you can see!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 01, 2012, 01:17:37 pm
thanks for the advice and yeah i have a few more helmets hiding somewhere just gotta go find them. when i get home (if it isnt raining) i plan on stripping everything off the fire wall and seeing how much rust is there, ill upload pics when i can.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: jaredts on February 01, 2012, 02:18:43 pm
What size weld wire are you using? .03" and .035" are a little tricky to use as they are a little big for the job, and have caused me similar trouble before. I've found the main thing is to make sure the two pieces are clamped very tightly together before you start to plug weld so the two both absorb the heat. Screw it together and hammer the outer piece to meet the inner if you have to. I was surprised when I first started all this welding body panels how a small gap between panels can make you blow through easily. When it comes to butt welding, it takes a very careful touch not to blow through. With a plug weld you should be able to lay into it until its full as opposed to short bursts.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 01, 2012, 03:07:42 pm
im butt welding the panels and not sure on wire size lol, ill check after work, thankyou
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bake74 on February 02, 2012, 06:37:03 am
Metal can be a funny thing sometimes, but good for us you can practically buy all the metal for these trucks in pieces. ;D What's money compared to something you love. ::)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 02, 2012, 08:34:04 am
haha, that's very true! it was raining pretty hard yesterday so i didn't get out and do anything with the truck last night, but im suppose to go get my block and pretty vortecs cams etc tomorrow from the machine shop :)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 06, 2012, 11:51:56 am
update! lol. engine and trans has been removed. just a frame and axels now. ready to be coated (haven't decided what yet) plus i got my welder working how i wanted it too and got most of the floor fixed. ill be posting pics as soon as i can. does anyone have any suggestions on how to go about fixing rust holes in the fire wall? will regular sheet metal work? thanks in advanced. hoping to get the cab on this week and the new transmission and t case and axels put back in :)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bake74 on February 07, 2012, 06:42:27 am
You are moving fast, pics would be great. Firewall question, how much rust ? Are we talking small spots that can be spot repaired or are we talking sections that need replaced ?
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 07, 2012, 08:22:28 am
umm half dollar holes. not sure exactly how bad yet. me and a friends are gonna finish sanding the firewall tonight and MAYBE put the cab on the frame.. not exactly sure yet. got a new steering box off my parts truck (mine leaked pretty bad) but someone stole the hoses off of it and mine wont fit... should i just go to the parts store and try to get some?
last week the engine trans and all wiring and other random stuff came off the frame. notice my fancy tow hook? haha
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 07, 2012, 01:50:39 pm
frame is done! my buddy went by my house when he got out of class and sprayed it with some undercoating material. its like tar when you spray it but when it drys it feels like really tough rubber
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bake74 on February 07, 2012, 07:17:35 pm
Half dollar size rust holes are too big to try to fill in. (will end up warping everything unless you are patient and careful, doing little by little). If it was me I would get same size material and cut out rust completely and weld in new material. It would be great to get a old no good cab and use that in a perfect world.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 07, 2012, 10:07:12 pm
That was my plan sorry should have worded it differently. Stripped cab down tonight and under the cowl it was rusted threw that seam all the way across... Behind the ac boxes was all rusted threw.. So back to the old cab. Also ended up gettin a nice peice of metal stuck in my hand.. Not the palm side either so it kinda hurt lol. Tomorrow after I get back from the dr gonna start on the floor boards
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 08, 2012, 08:32:54 am
fixed some rust spots on frame (surface rust) coated them with the rust preventive spray stuff and finished the frame.. not a great pic sorry (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_0279.jpg)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 10, 2012, 09:03:30 am
pistons crank and block came back from machine shop yesterday :) ill post more pics tonight. also i have a chance to get an 82 cab (gutted) but has no rust at all in it for $400 with the title, think i should go for it??
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bake74 on February 10, 2012, 08:00:14 pm
The 82 cab will not be the same as your 77, you would have to change front clips or redo how the hood attaches.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 01, 2012, 10:58:54 am
updating.. havent been on here in a little while between working and helping a friend finish a mud truck for the races on the 18th i havent had much spare time. depending on weather tonight the trans t case and drive shafts may get put back in. block needs rear main seal put in and oil pan put on for the bottom end to be finished. still waiting on the heads to come in, if any one near west alabama has a decent cab they would like to sell please let me know. both of mine are pretty much gone
crank and pistons in (.30 over) (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_0299.jpg)
Christmas in February :) (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_0300.jpg)
cam and timing chain installed (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_0302.jpg)
making stuff look kinda nice. (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_0307.jpg) (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_0305.jpg) (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_0308.jpg)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on July 30, 2012, 10:04:44 pm
Update!! New cab new front cap and some more work. Been really busy, transferred jobs will have a baby boy in sept :) and recently moved. So I've had a full Plate. But any ways painted the truck cab Sunday putting the glass in tomorrow and maybe the engine too any ways here's sOme pics of my $30 paint job.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on October 06, 2012, 09:51:57 pm
Update! Been gone for a while :/ my little boy is here now :) pretty amazing feeling to be a dad and the 77 is about 80% done. Just can't seem to get the right windshield seal for it.. Any ways changed the 4" susp lift to a 6" super lift kit ($320 for the entire thing shocks, springs, drag link, all that good stuff :)) got bench seat in stealing colum etc drive it a block or two last week. Front clip is on but needs to be painted. Need to put the ac/heat vents in and finish running all the wiring and shell about be done
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/B6D6F19E-2772-412F-A0FC-3C1AF2E4632B-2287-000003FD0E897543.jpg) Lights installed (gift from the wife)
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/F7EDF697-5D39-4804-8800-BBD527190873-2287-000003FDBA223EE0.jpg) First day she drove on her on :)
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/7B2B7CA4-C644-430E-BC67-1D36CF29EDB4-2287-000003FDCF0057B6.jpg) Hole for t case shifter (2wd cab) always measure more than twice before you cut lol
Any ways if you have any input or criticism let me know! Always out to learn better ways to do things. Thanks for looking! Will be updating more often now
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bake74 on October 07, 2012, 09:58:32 am
Nice progress so far.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on October 07, 2012, 11:36:26 am
Thank you, and sorry everyone for the bad grammar. Typed it all on my phone last night and didn't relize I had messed up so many words.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: slammed79 on October 08, 2012, 12:00:22 am
Lookin good man.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on April 10, 2013, 09:53:13 pm
OK been a WHILE had a little boy, changed jobs, got married. Now back to the truck lol everything has been put back together besides the engine I built its still sitting in the shop were I work (need heads) anyways been driving it with just rear driveshaft and no bed or grill in it. Put a bed on it tonight, put power doors on a few weeks ago hopefully getting the grill in next week. Here's an updated pic
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 02, 2014, 09:34:49 pm
UPDATE: finally got settled enough to start back tinkering on my truck its been a long time, between work and watching my little boy i havent had much time. built the truck realized the frame was bent and had been patched a few times.... so out with it and in with another one. New setup (go big or go home :)) Dana 60 14 bolt ff sm465 205 t case (twin sticked) 39.5 tsl's 15" bead locks Kevlar stainless steel braided brake lines 91 blazer front end power doors warn 12000lb winch custom front bumper step side bed floor boards sprayed with bed liner
PLANNED UPDATES: custom diy4x dash disk brakes on the rear window tint :) build a back bumper transplant steel bed floor into step side bed. relays for headlights and door glass ( already done this to a few trucks anyone want a write up?) LED lights everywhere! haha
im sure im forgetting something. me and the family are about to watch a movie, when i come back ill add pics and fill in all the empty spots on the build
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 02, 2014, 09:49:22 pm
my little boy helping me on a different truck (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/34995_10200116233800950_1378159761_n-1.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/34995_10200116233800950_1378159761_n-1.jpg.html)
Got some parts! dana 60 and a 14 bolt ff 4;56 gears and a Detroit locker in the rear (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/65593_4827224070835_1992388688_n.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/65593_4827224070835_1992388688_n.jpg.html)
moving the donor frame to the new work location (who needs tow dollys?) (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/902945_10200173170784339_759062615_o.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/902945_10200173170784339_759062615_o.jpg.html)
The tear down has begun! (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/966311_10200449090282154_136944400_o.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/966311_10200449090282154_136944400_o.jpg.html)
needed help moving cab so started on the drive train. picked up an sm465 and np205 from a guy that turned out to be a very big help in my 4x4 adventures lol. old 700r and 208 (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20130609_135603_004.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20130609_135603_004.jpg.html)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 02, 2014, 10:02:27 pm
205 shift rails ground for twin sticks (i actually did it right the first time) (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20130821_210954_920.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20130821_210954_920.jpg.html)
dana 60 under the front and the sm465 and engine in. (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/892551_10200878725582768_1774223374_o.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/892551_10200878725582768_1774223374_o.jpg.html)
cab and front clip on new frame (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/1077188_10200762965768845_1985350935_o-1.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/1077188_10200762965768845_1985350935_o-1.jpg.html)
sold the 37" boggers and got some 39.5 swammpers on bead lock rims from the 4x4 guy i mentioned earlier. also got the 14 bolt under the truck (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/1150464_10200878721942677_1797574837_o.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/1150464_10200878721942677_1797574837_o.jpg.html)
front clip wired up. also added a custom bumper and warn 12000lb winch (thanks to the 4x4 guy aka Mr Belcher again) (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/1074134_10200726383374308_665600403_o.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/1074134_10200726383374308_665600403_o.jpg.html) night (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/892627_10201004240040551_1525646118_o.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/892627_10201004240040551_1525646118_o.jpg.html)
got some wiring fixed in engine bay. used a junction block off a 90 model chevy i had out back (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/703612_10200726386454385_1890311304_o.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/703612_10200726386454385_1890311304_o.jpg.html)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 02, 2014, 10:24:50 pm
test fit the bed and play time with my son lol (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/705136_10200879155873525_1082572257_o.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/705136_10200879155873525_1082572257_o.jpg.html) (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/1149337_10200879150913401_61207984_o.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/1149337_10200879150913401_61207984_o.jpg.html)
this is where we are now (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/1465148_10201461228184969_447062577_n.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/1465148_10201461228184969_447062577_n.jpg.html)
had to grind the calipers to make the 15" rims fit.
bed side painted (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20131101_115230_427.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20131101_115230_427.jpg.html)
hood based in (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20131226_162504_278.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20131226_162504_278.jpg.html)
next to my 90 model (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20140118_121922_828.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20140118_121922_828.jpg.html)
my little boy "driving" he even makes the engine noises lol (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20140202_100301_204.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20140202_100301_204.jpg.html)
i still have to finish the bed move the rear spring pads have a front drive shaft made finish some wiring get my new dash
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bake74 on February 03, 2014, 07:54:27 am
Looking good so far, so where is the ladder to get into that thing. 8)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on February 03, 2014, 12:21:51 pm
I only have one question and one comment....
WHEN DO YOU SLEEP??!!!
And
Awesome work!! That is my kind of project, and stamina I wish I still had!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 03, 2014, 06:59:34 pm
Awesome work!! That is my kind of project, and stamina I wish I still had!
i sleep when my little boy does haha. this project has actually been in progress for a long time. due to moving, having a kid, work, work on the side, and watching my little boy (he cant work with me in the cold weather). every now and then ill get a good week where i get determined to do something to the truck then usually the next 4-6 weeks after that im doing everything else in life. hopefully now that im half way settled in i can be more consistent. finally had a few good weeks at work so i ordered tint, twin sticks for my t case, all new lug nuts (only had eight that i robbed off my dually), and some grade 8 bolts for the cross member and bed. going to sneak the rest of my bed into work sometime this week or next and put a steel floor in it and get it painted and ready to go on.
thanks for every ones replies! im the only one around here that does this kind of stuff so its hard to stay focused and not get burned out when theres no one around to help you. wrenching in the dirt and mud aint too great by yourself haha :)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on February 04, 2014, 11:10:36 am
Quote
thanks for every ones replies! im the only one around here that does this kind of stuff so its hard to stay focused and not get burned out when theres no one around to help you. wrenching in the dirt and mud aint too great by yourself haha :)
OH MAN!!! DO I HEAR THAT!!!!! Since I got laid off my job of 23 years where I had a nice big construction shop to do all my work in I am now forced to work in the same conditions, I have a farm but no decent place to pull in out of the weather. everything has dirt floors, no doors and no electricity. :'( And I have to do it all alone myself. I don't have any neighbors either within a mile. This is a great place to live, not a great place to find help when I need it. So I too, do everything work related around here by myself from making six acres of hay to tree, rock and stump removal. Puttin up and takin down fence; it all has to be done. But at my age, I'm slowing down a lot. There is nothing inviting looking at 60. Creativity and taking serious risks are a way of life now.
Good luck !
BTW- when I had my wimpy 6" lift and 39" Mickey's I had to yell at folks all the time to not hold onto the door when climbing in. Do you have the same problem or is it not an issue with you? It was a serious annoyance to me. I hated adjusting the passenger door every two months. >:(
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 04, 2014, 06:22:35 pm
i haven't had that problem yet :) im planning on putting rock guards on or step rails to help people get into the truck
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Tonka on February 06, 2014, 05:18:20 am
OK been a WHILE had a little boy, changed jobs, got married. Now back to the truck lol everything has been put back together besides the engine I built its still sitting in the shop were I work (need heads) anyways been driving it with just rear driveshaft and no bed or grill in it. Put a bed on it tonight, put power doors on a few weeks ago hopefully getting the grill in next week. Here's an updated pic
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 07, 2014, 06:54:05 pm
^^ lol. I have some updates to post later on tonight when I get time
spent a week and a half hammering this fender out... removed about 4 lbs of bondo and and 6lbs of paint off it. the truck i got this bed off of had 8 coats of paint...top coat was flaking off then the the third coat was also flaking in spots... between the two they used some type of industrial paint at some time... 36 grit wasn't touching it.. anyways 4 cans of air craft stripper and a ton of sanding pads and a little bit of body filler and it looks pretty decent. (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20131101_115230_427.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20131101_115230_427.jpg.html)
started stripping the bed and other fender yesterday while at work... bodo galore and just way too much paint.... everything really needs to be sand blasted and fixed but i don't have a sand blaster that can do it time efficiently. not only that but everything is so rough it would take a TON of work to fix it right sooooo.... i pulled out the angle grinder on the bed its going to get bed lined and the fender, i just fixed the major stuff i could with 80 grit on a da and left the rest. its a mud truck its going to see some more damage. also the paint im using is rustoleum hammerd grey :D it costs around $50 to paint the entire truck so when i go out and mess it all up ill just repaint it one weekend :) staying budget friendly on the cosmetic part of this truck
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Tonka on February 08, 2014, 05:49:14 am
Looking real good! What color is it going to be? Love that stamped Chevrolet tail gate!!How much of the original bed were you able to reuse?
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 08, 2014, 10:09:06 am
its going to be hammered grey. define original bed haha. the bed that was on the truck when i bought it is sitting out back. its a fleet side in mint condition. i bought a parts truck about a year ago and stole the step side bed off it to use. as far as that bed goes im using all of its original parts. fixed rusted out side steps and cut all the rotted/rusted floor out of it going to reinforce the bed and put a steel floor in it. i have a scrap bed that i had planed on cutting the floor out of to use in this bed but we will just have to see. i think for now im just going to lay a plate in there to get me by.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: 87V20Kansan on February 08, 2014, 08:16:54 pm
Cool old truck Winky. The picture of the kid swinging from the door jamb is just classic.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 08, 2014, 08:20:45 pm
thankyou he is a mechanic in the training :) follows me everywhere even spreads my sockets all over the grass for me when im under a truck working on it lol
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 12, 2014, 09:13:36 pm
Got a little bit more done this week. the bed is pretty much done as far as metal work. and i also got my twin sticks in monday :D still have to modify the floor some floor those. (2wd cab)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on February 13, 2014, 01:58:53 am
Cool! Looks heavy now LOL.
Just curious, is that your personal shop or where you work? That is about what I used have at my job, and I could keep my stuff inside there while I was working on it. My truck sat inside waiting three months to get it's engine back in. 8)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 13, 2014, 06:39:17 am
its where i work. i wish it was my shop. i work at a collision repair shop and im on straight commission so when we are slow or have nothing to do i always try to keep something there to work on
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 13, 2014, 06:16:05 pm
got a little bit more done today, sprayed bed liner on the bed sides and the tail gate
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bd on February 13, 2014, 06:23:24 pm
Coming along very nicely.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 13, 2014, 06:46:32 pm
thankyou. i need to put some kind of design on the hood in black to help it go with the bed. i dont want racing stripes though lol
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bake74 on February 13, 2014, 11:14:52 pm
That sprayed on bed liner does not look all that bad, the pictures are a little bit grainy to see a clear picture, but I think it is going to look good.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on February 14, 2014, 11:16:42 am
Lookin Good!
Is that the hot Rhino lining stuff or the cold Line-X type stuff? I guess it's all pretty much the same anymore.
We had our 98 Rangers bed Rhino lined when we bought it new. I really liked the hot version, solid, thick, strong and resilient. Didn't let anything slide around because it felt like hard rubber with texture.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: 75_chevy on February 14, 2014, 06:27:33 pm
sick truck nice work!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 15, 2014, 08:40:20 am
thanks everyone i have pretty much finished the bed now. the bed liner i was using is a mix of dupli color and finish masters bed liner i ran out of the finish masters bed liner (its a hot bed liner and it is pretty tuff) the other is a cold bed liner never used it before... guess we will see how well it hold up. ill try to get some better pics if i can find my camera. hopefully loading my truck up in a few hours if i can find a trailer big enough and caring it to the shop
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on February 15, 2014, 10:35:21 am
The Rhino dealer that was close by was actually a company that built ambulances and the lining was just a regretful sideline for them so they ultimately shut out the public and now only shoot the undersides and interiors of the storage bays with it. It could have been a nice way for the company to diversify but they chose not to. Now the nearest bedliner places only serve up Line-X cold. It was an OK liner but not nearly as nice as the Rhino (at least back in the 90's). I have no recent knowledge of the changes or improvements it may undergone in mean time however.
There are so many different coatings available these days. I'll still use my old favorite- Rubberized undercoat from Napa in a rattle can. Cheap, easy, when it wears off just power wash and spray some more on. That's only on the outer-body rocker panels however. In the bed IDK?
Waiting patiently for more updates and good pictures of the truck in progress... ;) :)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 15, 2014, 10:58:12 am
ive learned from my use that in the bed you need a really tough liner. the finish master that we use is hard as a rock (the inside of my truck is sprayed with it for easy cleaning) but with that being said it does not grip anything like a rubberized liner they make bed liner with Kevlar and all that good stuff in it now days so you can get the best of both words.
photo bucket isnt wanting to work right now. here is pretty much the bed finished.. it might be too much black we will have to see once its on the truck
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on February 28, 2014, 09:17:51 pm
HERE WE GO! lol I was pretty excited today. I got a decent bit done this week especially with how busy we were at work. the paint isnt the best... but hey its a mud truck (paint cost: $30 + bedliner) the top half of the truck turned out great and then something happened... not sure what but i couldn't get the same pattern after that. im going to investigate and figure out why and ill probably re paint it once i scratch it up pretty good :)
Sanded ready for paint. we did a QUICK 5 minute tape up on her with whatever was laying in the floor (keep from wasting shop materials)
bed on. (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140228_171252_288.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140228_171252_288.jpg.html)
I still have a lot of work to do (always room for improvement) Hopefully next week i can weld on the new spring perches to correct pinion angle and bring my springs out where they should be (1 ton 14 bolt spring pads are 3/4" closer than the 1/2 ton) i Need to cut the floor up and weld some of it up to finish my twin stick install get my dash in and make sure everything functions Then wiring! :D going to start on the dual battery's and installing some of the LED light bars Last but not Least build a back bumper to match the front
Spring perch kit (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140228_171601_400.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140228_171601_400.jpg.html)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on March 01, 2014, 12:22:32 am
Lookin good! It's amazing how your tires morph back and forth. LOL.
How do you expect to set the pinion angle? Are you going to leave it a little low to compensate for spring wrap (and keep angles equal), keep it straight at street ride height or maybe a different thought?
Way back on my other truck used a Trail Master kit to control spring wrap, I see thee something similar sold these days and it looks much better than the early one I had (mine was way to weak for big tires) but when it wasn't broken it worked great. I was wondering if you were thinking of doing something to control spring wrap?
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 01, 2014, 02:50:43 am
I'm still deciding. What would you do? And I thought about latter bars
- I'm Mobile!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bake74 on March 01, 2014, 12:19:06 pm
Truck is looking good, and it being as high as it is and used for mudding a set of ladder bars would not be a bad idea to keep the axle wrap down.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: 87V20Kansan on March 01, 2014, 02:43:19 pm
Looking good! Ladder bars for sure.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 01, 2014, 10:15:07 pm
ok, i have been reading for the last few hours... Ive seen that most people only use one ladder bar. they normally place that bar on the passenger side to help with counter steering? Ive also learned that i need to have a shackle and a point where it can rotate to prevent binding. While reading i learned one of the most common problems with the 14 bolt (i sure most other axles as well) is that when adding a ladder bar the stress placed on that side of the axle tends to crack/break the plug welds on the axle tubes. So plan on adding an axle truss.
The questions i have so far... ~How long does my ladder bar need to be? i kept reading and most people said make it as long as possible. ~Can i put ladder bars on both sides of the axles ? ~The ladder bars are suppose to be parallel to the frame? i have 6" of spring lift how would i accomplish this? build a drop cross-member for the bars to mount too? ~does the shackle need to be straight up and down when i install them? i would really love to have a concrete floor... its hard dragging a welder threw dirt and gravel
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on March 02, 2014, 01:54:12 am
All good questions. None of which I have personal knowledge of the answers. Like you, I have read about a few different configurations. I had the Trailmaster type years ago and the new ones are built much better but are similar. They are something a good welder can do at home. The way the ones I had were designed was there was a plate attached over the top spring plate and over the u-bolt nuts . The top was extended up so it was level with the top of the front spring shackle. There was a 'L' bracket at the front with the vertical face pointing to the rear. Then there was a bushed adjustable length bar between them. The problem with this design, although it worked great and didn't limit travel was that there was no flex other than the bushings. This caused the threaded end at the front to break from bending to much. I believe this could be eliminated by using a shackle system in the front. However, the ladder bar systems sold as one piece units do the same and with less fuss. The bar is sold as a single (probably due to manufacturing economics) but I see no reason why two could not be made to fit a center diff setup like the 14 bolt. I really don't see anything less than 800 hp breaking the welds on a 14 bolt though. Maybe I'm wrong. Dunno.
I think one company at least tried putting two double acting shocks horizontally at one point, I don't think they panned out with any real control though.
I saw on TV a few weeks ago on Mav TV an install of a nice ladder bar. It looked just like this one by ORD. http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/traction%20bar%20installed1.jpg (http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/traction%20bar%20installed1.jpg) It requires the extra cross member. But the transfer case cross member would work too. I feel a heim joint at the front would work better for a lifted truck that actually uses the flex in the suspension. Using shackles always seems to be the key at the front.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 02, 2014, 08:31:58 am
My concern with breaking the welds isn't my horsepower. Its my torque. I can see my self dumping the clutch in low gear while trying to pull something heavy. 39.5 tires don't help lol that ladder bar would hold one axle tube still and let the pumpkin take all the stress. I may just be over thinking things. I just like to over build rather than to under build
- I'm Mobile!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: 87V20Kansan on March 02, 2014, 11:53:40 am
The "parallel with the frame" is key in the longitudinal dimension. Meaning that it should run straight with the frame from the front to the back. That way as the axle is put through suspension cycles it doesn't bind. Parallel to the frame from the horizontal , or side view is not really as important in this instance as you are not drag racing. If you were then there is a lot more geometry you would need to pay attention to. (Instant center, Anti-squat %, etc..) All you are trying to accomplish is defend against axle wrap under high load. Adding that bar will control the tendency of the axle wanting to rotate and bend the springs into an "S" shape as the ring tries to climb the pinion gear. I would do a pair myself, but I like symmetry! One well built bar will do the job. Also I would weld the axle tubes to the diff housing. Spend the money on good Heim joints for the front attachment point, specifically high flex "Johnny joints" so the bars can rotate with the housing during articulation.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 02, 2014, 02:44:41 pm
I was looking at the cent bar on a 3 point hitch as a heim joint
- I'm Mobile!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 02, 2014, 08:13:55 pm
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/471072-double-hh-category-0-top-link.html?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&gclid=CJSS0vuk9bwCFVRo7AodrU4AVw#.UxPk7oWwUvo those are what i was going to use for the heim joints. i did a ROUGH sketch of the cross member and ladder bars i would appreciate any input :)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bake74 on March 03, 2014, 07:06:14 am
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/471072-double-hh-category-0-top-link.html?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&gclid=CJSS0vuk9bwCFVRo7AodrU4AVw#.UxPk7oWwUvo those are what i was going to use for the heim joints. i did a ROUGH sketch of the cross member and ladder bars i would appreciate any input :)
This would work under slow speed acceleration. If I remember right you are using this as a mud truck, which means high speed and quick acceleration. I would be worried with how much the shackle in the front would take all the abuse. Not that with the correct type of heim joints it would take all kinds of abuse. I have to agree with 87V20Kansan, defiantly weld to the axle tube. I am just used to making a single mounting point in the front with a good heim joint instead of a shackle type, keeps movement to a minimal.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Engineer on March 03, 2014, 10:18:12 am
Moar pics!
:)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Tonka on March 03, 2014, 01:35:28 pm
Beast!! This thing just keeps getting better. I did a twin stick in my 77 step side also!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 03, 2014, 07:15:14 pm
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/471072-double-hh-category-0-top-link.html?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&gclid=CJSS0vuk9bwCFVRo7AodrU4AVw#.UxPk7oWwUvo those are what i was going to use for the heim joints. i did a ROUGH sketch of the cross member and ladder bars i would appreciate any input :)
This would work under slow speed acceleration. If I remember right you are using this as a mud truck, which means high speed and quick acceleration. I would be worried with how much the shackle in the front would take all the abuse. Not that with the correct type of heim joints it would take all kinds of abuse. I have to agree with 87V20Kansan, defiantly weld to the axle tube. I am just used to making a single mounting point in the front with a good heim joint instead of a shackle type, keeps movement to a minimal.
The main reason for the shackle style is for flex. it will mostly be in the mud but i would like to climb if i feel like it. the research i did i decided the shackle style would allow the most flex. First time ive ever even thought about anti wrap bars so im still soaking it all in. Thanks for the replies ill try to add more pics. anything specific engineer?
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 03, 2014, 07:39:23 pm
The "parallel with the frame" is key in the longitudinal dimension. Meaning that it should run straight with the frame from the front to the back. That way as the axle is put through suspension cycles it doesn't bind. Parallel to the frame from the horizontal , or side view is not really as important in this instance as you are not drag racing. If you were then there is a lot more geometry you would need to pay attention to. (Instant center, Anti-squat %, etc..) All you are trying to accomplish is defend against axle wrap under high load. Adding that bar will control the tendency of the axle wanting to rotate and bend the springs into an "S" shape as the ring tries to climb the pinion gear. I would do a pair myself, but I like symmetry! One well built bar will do the job. Also I would weld the axle tubes to the diff housing. Spend the money on good Heim joints for the front attachment point, specifically high flex "Johnny joints" so the bars can rotate with the housing during articulation.
from what i have read the housing is cast? which would require nickle plate something lol i get the different welding types mixed up. i just call them stick, wire, or the complicated one :) i was looking at an axle truss system that would weld to the tubes and bolt to the cover and pinion area
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: 87V20Kansan on March 04, 2014, 11:14:32 am
Correct. The housing is cast. But it can be done. You just have to preheat the area to be welded and then let it cool slowly. Truss that thing up. I only suggested welding as another option if you wanted to keep the budget low and not pay for the truss.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 04, 2014, 12:09:19 pm
I thought this kinda fit my truck ;)
- I'm Mobile!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bd on March 04, 2014, 12:26:46 pm
Cool!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 04, 2014, 12:49:09 pm
Thanks the emblem has been laying in my box for 2 years. It was that or the new "Silverado" emblem but I didn't like how they looked on my truck so I put the old ones on
- I'm Mobile!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: 87V20Kansan on March 04, 2014, 05:14:11 pm
Nice!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on March 05, 2014, 02:21:27 am
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/471072-double-hh-category-0-top-link.html?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&gclid=CJSS0vuk9bwCFVRo7AodrU4AVw#.UxPk7oWwUvo those are what i was going to use for the heim joints. i did a ROUGH sketch of the cross member and ladder bars i would appreciate any input :)
I'd say that you could try those ends but be forewarned that they are not designed for much horsepower. Even tractor horsepower. And if you look at the condition they run in you will find they are always under compression when being used and tension only when under transport conditions (no load other than static weight) meaning, when they are being used the load is straight into the rod end and not the cup. Something to think about. If they were useful in this situation everyone would be using them in other words.
As for using just a heim connection at the front as 87V20Kansan says I have to politely disagree at least to a degree. It probably works just fine for a straight mud truck even so it's not ideal. If you drive your truck to the playground then the ride will suffer too. If it's a trailer queen then it's the easiest route to take. The reason I say this because the rear axle not only moves up and down and slightly side to side during normal driving and especially during articulation but the entire axle moves in a rearward arc during it's cycle from full bump to full droop. Unless you move your shackles to the front then the arc will be forward. Take for example a CJ or Scout front end, the common backyard fix was the do a shackle reversal on them to make the suspension work with a bump and not against as in the factory configuration. So by fixing a solid rod between the axle and the frame, even if the rod is at a neutral center point in the travel it will pull serious hard on the axle design at as soon as it moves from that point. This is where the shackle comes in, not just the side to side arc during droop on one side and bump on the other. The more arch in a spring the more extreme this front to rear arc becomes because the rear of the spring, as we all know, has to move half the distance horizontally relative of the vertical distance the spring compresses with the length of the rear shackle the deciding factor in how far that actually is (putting a 4" rear shackle on a 12" lift is a recipe for a really harsh ride). I'm sure there is a nice mathematical formula for all of this but I don't know what it is. I'm beyond terrible with math.
Anyway, if I have any of this wrong it's because it's been a while. I make no claims of ultimate accuracy. But when it comes to rear leaf-spring suspensions there is a lot of home brewed myth and urban fantasy about what actually works. Just because Joe did it and was successful does not mean that Ferds truck will react the same way. The chances are good but not perfect. My six inch lift worked fine with stock shackles, however, it would have worked a lot better with 1" longer shackles. I have in the past seen those 12" lifts using the stock shackles. Those fellas had no teeth left. :o ;D
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 05, 2014, 06:50:31 am
Thank you. I love post like this
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Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Captkaos on March 05, 2014, 01:40:31 pm
Pics of your bumper request....
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 05, 2014, 11:48:59 pm
Detailed pics of bumper?
- I'm Mobile!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 06, 2014, 07:36:08 am
Phitobucket is action up
- I'm Mobile!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Captkaos on March 06, 2014, 06:49:55 pm
yeah like a few close ups. I like that design. Looks like treadplate.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Tonka on March 06, 2014, 07:33:39 pm
This truck is just too good. Man I want pics of everything including that bumper!! And how about a walk around video with the engine running??
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 06, 2014, 08:50:30 pm
be for warned the truck is still kinda rough lol. no exhaust and about a million lose ends to tie up. I'm trying to upload pics to photo bucket right now. one of the tires kept going flat so today i decided to fix it. 2 hours later and the bead lock ring was off :/ had to cut 15 of the bolts because they had rounded off. so i guess one of the skinnies is going back on it until i can order bolts.i finished up the shifters today and fixed the huge hole i cut in the floor board 2 years ago. its a 2 wheel drive cab so the shifters look funky but it ll be ok haha. once the tire is fixed i am going to weld the new spring perches on and then she is off to the muffler shop down the road to get the exhaust done (205 t case is in the way of the passenger straight pipe.)
to do:
finish bolting bed down. Spring perches Front drive shaft Exhaust custom gauges ;) Attach driver bed step bolt tool boxes down side markers tail light LEDs ladder bars dual batteries few other things I'm not thinking of - I'm Mobile!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 06, 2014, 09:46:55 pm
bumper pics suck, i took them after shutting down the shop.ill have more pics tomorrow
never mind on bumper pics they arent worth looking at. il upload some tomorrow. I did a little welding today for the shop manager not to bad for a half blind kid ;) wish ihad my welding gloves today.. my mechanics gloves kept tryingto melt on me so i had to stop several times.
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20140306_132532_700.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20140306_132532_700.jpg.html) i was also reading threw my thread today and i remember when i was trying to fix my old cab and kept burning threw. It turns out practice does make perfect (or at least better) im very comfortable welding on sheet metal i was doing it almost every week there for a while at work.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on March 07, 2014, 02:43:00 am
I think you got yourself a winner Winky! Sweat the details now, they are soooo easy to ignore. Once a truck gets roadworthy ....well, you know where it goes from there.
The first picture is a great reason why what you were talking about in the traction aid thread is why you need as much flexibility as possible. On a half ton truck the frame ALWAYS twists easier than a lift spring. Can't say how the newer easy ride springs work but in order to hold the truck up that high the spring naturally has to have a stiffer rate than stock does. Especially if the same load capacity is kept. That's the old version anyway. The new version of lift springs may have broken the laws of physics IDK. The way I see it is a spring rated at 700lbs will hold up 700lbs no matter the lift height just as long as each is measured under a standard load of 700lbs. From that point the amount of lift is measured.
Anyway...that's some great work!
I have a two wheel drive cab on my truck too. When I got the truck it had a three inch body lift on it to make it work. I cut that lift down to just around an inch so the t-case clears the floor pan. I used a JCB fork to lift each tire on the corner to be certain that would be enough to clear at all frame twisting angles. It wasn't but I doubt I'll ever get the truck to twist into those contortions in real life so I settled on the one inch. I really hate body lifts anyway. The body was never meant to be a stressed member of the vehicle. Just my belief...no proof. And to be honest I could probably get rid of those 1" pucks if I bought new body mount rubber. Next idea is an air hammer to the tunnel. :o Or I have a ten pound sledge hammer.....I just need someone that knows how to operate it. LOL!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 07, 2014, 07:29:50 pm
thankya! yeah the frame definitely flexed more than the springs. after i have played in it a while if i feel like i will be doing a decent amount of flexing i plan on boxing the frame and adding more cross-members (that cant twist due to rivets) the details are killing me but im kind OCD about it. got the winch cable back on today and started working on the dash pad ;) i have something different planned for it but i guess we will just have to wait and see. i made a walk around video with it running today but for some reason i guess it didn't save... here are some pictures though. mounted one of the LED lights on the back and finally cleaned out my truck. Now my truck doesn't look like a parts store over flow container :D I hope we have a little bit more work next week but if not the truck will get a pretty decent amount done on it.
sigh.. when photo bucket decides to load i will add pics. i have pics of the bumper as well KaptCaos
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 08, 2014, 07:51:51 am
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Captkaos on March 08, 2014, 01:44:02 pm
That is pretty nice.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 08, 2014, 02:29:31 pm
yeah, i love it. i believe i paid $1200 for the bumper and it came with the Warn 12000lb winch :)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Captkaos on March 08, 2014, 06:35:26 pm
That is even better.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 15, 2014, 12:18:25 am
gauges came in. i turned 14 labor hours this week at work :/ needles to say i had plenty of time to do whatever. so here is what got accomplished.
took an angle grinder and 5 mins later the small gauges were in. the big ones were too small for the hole so i had to heat the plastic on the bezel and bend it in. (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140314_165505_352.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140314_165505_352.jpg.html)
when the gauges are in the correct spot they are all angled slightly up. from reading several threads about installing gauges the biggest problem seem to be that people were having problems reading gauges due to them being flat and not actual pointing towards the drivers sight. (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140314_165511_566.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140314_165511_566.jpg.html)
also painted an s 10. The owner of the chevy dealership also owns a ford dealership down the road that use to have a paint shop (6 or 7 years ago) so the guy with the s10 saved some paint from being disposed of. mixed 4 different base coats together (all different brands lol..) lord only knows how many different primers they mixed together luckily the activator they found worked in it (or at least it seems) used some nice DuPont clear (not a big fan of) any ways the truck was rusted and had been covered up with rattle can primer... the cab got painted as is via owner request and the bed i just had to sand down and feather out most of the paint flakes etc.. it got sealed and then based and cleared. it actually turned out decent for what it was before paint was sprayed.
Then i fixed my busted up dash and added an ugly extension on to it for my i cab winch and light controls and cut out an aluminum switch plate. i also did a few other things as well but ill post them later on when i finish them. pics are below. photo bucket was acting up again..
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on March 15, 2014, 01:32:19 am
Looking Good Winky!
I've been busy with my last week at college, got my final project turned in and it looks like smooth sailing from here till the 18th which is the official last day of my college career.
I remember seeing folks with bumpers like yours and the guard part folds down into steps so the bumper could be reached and worked worked off of easier. After looking at yours for a few minutes I see an easy way to do it to yours too. In case you might be interested, the way I see it is to use the frame extensions near the lower front and drill a hole large enough to put a small piece of pipe (1/2"ID) put a fork on a bent U- shaped tube of your choice (diameter wise) so the horizontal bend is the same height as the top of the existing guard tube, weld a stop so it will be at a comfortable angle when it's swung down and a way to fasten it when up; my rough choice would be a simple pin through the tube with a hairpin clip or something on the outside. What would be cool would be the ability to mount two small lights that point forward and then under the truck when it's down for working under there at night on the trail. ???? Just thinkin out loud...
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 15, 2014, 09:14:23 am
That sir is pretty snazy. I'm live I'm gonna add it to the list of things I'm going to do when it is fully running. Thankyou
- I'm Mobile!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 15, 2014, 09:57:23 am
here are the dash pics.. its ROUGH lol. i could have made it look better but i just needed something that functions until i get my custom dash. (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20140310_171800_788.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20140310_171800_788.jpg.html)
top left is an amber light to let me know when my winch is armed, the blue switches are for lights, and the bottom two are for winch armed and then in/ out. winch controls are ran off acc on power to prevent people from messing with it when the key is not on. (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20140314_170018_139.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20140314_170018_139.jpg.html)
crappy pics sorry everyone... here is a few of the s10 :P (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20140313_103340_146.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20140313_103340_146.jpg.html) (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20140313_113233_581.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20140313_113233_581.jpg.html) (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20140313_123644_635.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20140313_123644_635.jpg.html)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 17, 2014, 12:18:32 pm
Gauges
- I'm Mobile!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bd on March 17, 2014, 02:55:21 pm
I've always been partial to the "blue" look. ;)
It's comin' along nicely.... 8)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: bake74 on March 17, 2014, 07:12:21 pm
Those are the ones I have been thinking about getting for my truck, I am not a fan of the digital Dakota's.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 17, 2014, 09:29:16 pm
Blue is my favorite color. And I'm not either bake I really like these gauges I think there gonna look nice in my truck :)
- I'm Mobile!
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on March 18, 2014, 02:57:34 am
I like em too, are they dimmable?
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 19, 2014, 06:24:06 pm
they are suppose to be dim-able we will find out for sure next week. i have a few questions about pinion angle :/ i know it has been covered a million times Ive even read a lot of forum posts on it.... I know how everyone here is eager to help people out :D got my angle finder in last week. t case is 0* drive shaft is about 15* and the pinion is 10* if im correct you are suppose to subtract the pinion and drive shaft angle to get true pinion angle?? what would be a "good" pinion angle? i have a 1410 joint at the diff. and a 1410/1310 joint at the t case. im planning on cutting the old spring perches off tomorrow and welding the new ones on and i want to set my pinion angle while im in there. If we are slow Friday i will probably have all the sensors for the gauges wired up and working.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: thirsty on March 19, 2014, 06:44:13 pm
Good question Winky. Unfortunately I don't have an answer for the correct angle. I do have experience with it though and went through it when I used to run lifted CJ5's. Too little angle and it is hard on u-joints and pinion bearing. Too much angle and you could starve the pinion bearing.
I bet Bake74 has some experience with this. I haven't done pinion angles in 25 years but I bet he has. The one thing that I do remember is try to find a happy medium between the two stock angles but that is not always possible depending on wheel base and amount of lift.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on March 19, 2014, 07:15:26 pm
I'm not going to answer that for a few reason's, I will say it all depends.
The biggest reason is I've never had to set pinion angle because my lift never went over six inches and with that I used blocks engineered for the task. I say it all depends also because IIRC if you use a traction device that totally prohibits the pinion from climbing the ring gear the angles can held closer to a neutral (equal at both ends) position. If no traction aid, and the pinion is free to climb, that needs to be taken into account so it's not set too high.
I personally see setting pinion angle as complicated. On the other hand it's easy. If you have a rock-crawler with 14" of wheel travel at each side (about 7" in the middle at independent flex) the question becomes how much will it squat under acceleration (both springs compressed equally)? On the other hand a mud truck will seldom use even a fraction of available flex so it would not need the same degree of precision...or would it?
I've always been told that the optimum angle is when both ends of the drive shaft (or both U-joints) angles remain equal or as close to it as possible during any phase of movement. Phase of movement is the operative term here. The u-joints HAVE to be in phase with each other at all times or a severe vibration, or binding, will result. You can experience this result on your own if you want to take a chance. Just pull the drive shaft slip-joint apart and put it together a spline or two off from where it was and drive it. Something bad will definitely happen. Keeping a drive shaft in phase is pretty common knowledge. But that also extends to the angles each end runs at. But as I said ...it depends.
I saw a lot of different fixes over the years, I don't know which ones worked or not. I saw some guys point the pinion straight at or a little lower than the drive shaft, some equaled both angles (front and rear the same, doesn't work at all after a certain amount of lift). However, never put the pinion above the line of the drive shaft...that is begging for bad things to happen. The pinion will always rise under load, how much to compensate for that is.....??? per individual truck and lift and usage, and horsepower and, and, and.....
Maybe someone else that works on rear-ends a lot will come in with the answer, I'd be happy to find out if there is a good rule of thumb or if I am over-thinking it. I just know that driving down the highway at 70 the drive shaft is spinning as fast as the engine so balance, phase, joint angles, etc. all need to be taken into account. The bigger the diameter of the drive shaft the more that comes into play...I had a 5 or 6" (IIRC) drive shaft built for my truck and it had to be balanced extremely good to run smooth. It was built by a friend at a semi-truck drive-line shop.
I would say your best bet is call ORD or Sadler ( http://www.sadlerpowertrain.com/index.html (http://www.sadlerpowertrain.com/index.html) ) power train and talk to a professional about it. Sadler is located here in Iowa but they talk to foreigners too LOL.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 19, 2014, 07:34:35 pm
i didnt even think about the drive shaft being in phase....i bought it in parts.... drive shaft was in one.. pile slip yoke was in another.... lol i guess it might help someone with the right answers to know im running a swb truck with a sm465 and np205. also has 6" of lift "rear has 4" shackles witch point the pinion up some.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on March 19, 2014, 08:30:06 pm
Quote
a swb truck with a sm465 and np205
THE ONLY WAY TO ROLL! Hahahaha!!
Six inch lift on it's own? I probably wouldn't worry about it, with new longer shackles IDK. If it has all spring and shackle I have no clue. Blocks are carved to compensate for the stock springs, start changing those and ?????. A 10-1/2" 14 bolt has an oil pump of sorts to get oil to the pinion bearings I believe since it has two bearings in front and one in the rear. So oiling does not tip the scales like other two bearing housings do. But there can probably still be too much tilt just the same. Six or eight inches of lift shouldn't require that much change, a degree or two at most for which I would be comfortable using wedges myself. YMMV.
A story, just a little unrelated.... I ruined one 14 bolt once not by oil starvation but by tightening the wheel bearings too much. It started raining one day when I was doing the brakes in my driveway in Dellwood Mo. I quick covered the brakes with plastic bags and didn't get back around to working on it for a week. I had put the hubs on and tightened them, that much I remembered doing I guess, but instead of double checking I went ahead and buttoned everything up. The wheels spun and seemed free enough and they weren't loose when yanked on.
About driving about 75 miles to south St. Louis , coming back there was a lot of squealing (and head scratching) The noise became awful for the last 30 miles or so running down the interstate and we were still confounded as to what it was going so we were just trying to get to my buddy's house who is in the truck with me. The funny part is I got and out and checked both rear brakes and the hubs during all this noise and the hubs never got hot.
When I rounded a right hand turn near my buddy's house and I accelerated it didn't really accelerate right. I did speed up but about half of what it should have done at the foot feed setting on the peddle. Hmmm? Looking in my mirrors I noticed my right tire and wheel where about a foot outside the wheel well. That's not right.... It ate the end of the spindle right off the tube and everything slid out during the turn. The axle itself held the truck in the air. Stopping was also fun since the brakes on that side now had nothing around them to contain the hydraulic pressure. Front brakes still worked though. I was about three hundred yards from my buddies house so we just drove it very carefully on up to his place and he took me to a junkyard, I got another one with a gov-lock and the right gears for about $150 and we swapped it out that day and I drove it home with only one rear shock. Gov-locks are great! But in this case so are full floating rear ends. I learned a lesson...or two or three. No harm no foul but it could have been really bad had it happened at any other time. Young an..well you know the rest...
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 19, 2014, 09:50:17 pm
i have luck about like that. i rebuilt the rear end in my 90 model chevy when i was 17 (first time i ever rebuilt a rearend) i ended up tearing it back down to double check everything haha! all was good on that day but i have had a LOT of stuff happen so now sometimes if i don't double check my self im slightly paranoid i guess you could say. I honestly dont think my pinion angle is too bad off? i haven't got around to checking it with the rear wheels drooped though. the one ton axle spring perches are 3/4" close together than the half ton so my springs are doing this \ / so thats the main reason for the spring perches. traction bars will be added soon as well. they are next on the list after making sure everything is functional and 100% drivable.
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 20, 2014, 01:02:02 am
im tore between welding this joker up tomorrow or waiting and ordering a cv joint to put onto my drive shaft. so confusing when there are 1,000 articles on something and half of them contradict the other half :/
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on March 20, 2014, 10:43:41 pm
got the lights on the bumper mounted today.. thats about all though. we got slammed at work :)
lol... my friend didnt believe that you could drive on these lights.... soooo... i showed him :D got a little heavy on the gas when pulling up on the light and shot it across the parking lot haha... just some slight concrete rash the second time around i pulled up on it no problems at all took it into the shop hooked it up and bam! good as new.
they are suppose to be dim-able we will find out for sure next week. i have a few questions about pinion angle :/ i know it has been covered a million times Ive even read a lot of forum posts on it.... I know how everyone here is eager to help people out :D got my angle finder in last week. t case is 0* drive shaft is about 15* and the pinion is 10* if im correct you are suppose to subtract the pinion and drive shaft angle to get true pinion angle?? what would be a "good" pinion angle? i have a 1410 joint at the diff. and a 1410/1310 $#*() joint at the t case. im planning on cutting the old spring perches off tomorrow and welding the new ones on and i want to set my pinion angle while im in there. If we are slow Friday i will probably have all the sensors for the gauges wired up and working.
Winky, I will try to answer this as simple as I can and still give you the info you need. I have done many jeeps with short drive lines over the years and as many longer caged crawlers. So in very short wheel base vehicles you have to worry about "drive line vibration" which transmits the vibration through the whole vehicle and is very annoying to say the least. The best and simplest way of me saying this is to eliminate drive line vibration is to have the tnsfr angle the same as the rear diff angle, by having them the exactly the same ( as long as the drive shaft and your wheels are balanced) you will have no vibration issues. (Disclaimer) if you are running soft springs or a vehicle that has axle wrap, the angle of the rear should be 1 - 2 degrees in the negative, this is so that when your are under power the angle will increase a few degrees because of the soft springs and or axle wrap and you will be even in the angles. A short article on this is by FourWheeler Magazine (http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/129-1207-drivelines-and-geometry-understanding-pinion-and-driveshaft-angle/) if you want to read it. Now remember that drive line vibration does not always show up in longer wheel base vehicles because you are not trying to transfer all the power through a 2-2.5 ft drive line. With that being said, since you are already using universal u-joints and not anything fancy like CV or Cardans style yolks, the response you will hear and read a lot is, as long as the yolks can turn around with out hitting (you have to flex your vehicle to test this, not just have it on level pavement) you are fine. And that answer is correct for the yolks themselves, but there is more to it than just the yolks. The most IMPORTANT thing I can say is this. When you are setting up your axles, keep in mind the pinion bearing, it has to stay lubricated, so if you clock your axles too high you will have to overfill you diff to keep the pinion bearing lubricated.
Here's a pic of what a universal set should look like, now granted this is 2wd so 4wd could be higher angles instead of level. I got it from Tom's Woods custom driveline (http://www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.asp) page. It also is a good read. (http://www.4xshaft.com/images/2joint_angle.gif)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on July 05, 2014, 11:03:07 pm
thankyou for the info bake sorry about the late thanks lol...
thought i might update this some. been busy with work and my new to me 03 2500 hd Z71 :D brought the truck home friday and since then i pulled all of the wiring and cleaned it up quite a bit.. everything i did not plan on using was removed from the harness. since all my gauges are electric i have a LOT more wiring then the old truck (vss, oil psi, lighting, shift lights etc..) on top of that i have switches for all my lights and in cab controls for my winch so i had no choice but to get half way neat with the wiring. The battery i bought a while back wont hold a charge... i guess i let it sit too long without being used haha trickle charger has got it up to 4v so its hard to test what im wiring , that being said im at a stand still until monday when i can grab anther battery from the shop took a pic with might 2 work lights and 1 light bar on. no head lights or anything just the LEDs at 4 volts (keep that in mind when looking at brightness)
i also managed to do this friday :S (http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/josh_brooks2/IMG_20140703_152846_375.jpg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/josh_brooks2/media/IMG_20140703_152846_375.jpg.html)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on July 06, 2014, 10:27:08 pm
I had a rag joint on my present truck come apart seconds after I got of the highway and into my employers parking area. I never even knew it was loose. The only other time I've seen one break was when a tire was lodged in between a rock and a hard place and the driver just twisted steering wheel harder. ;) 8)
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: winky on July 06, 2014, 10:53:51 pm
luckily i was just loading my truck when it happen to me :S kinda worries me now. 40" tires aren't forgiving i guess
Title: Re: my 77 4x4 rebuild
Post by: Greybeard on July 10, 2014, 11:43:01 pm
That could be part of it. I had 39's on my '78 with just the normal frame breakage, never had a rag-joint problem. That frame broke when I was driving it in the city and the steering got bad really quick but it was still steerable. I was able to limp home and get it fixed later. I know that dumping the rag joint is probably a good idea when tires get bigger. But the replacements used to be spendy. I believe it was Flaming River that sold replacement joints to eliminate the rag joint. They used to be in the couple hundred dollar range which is why I never did it. I made the poor mans rag joint for my present truck until I was able to buy a real one. Highly inadvisable I might add.