trans. swap in 86 k10

[benoit454]

I was wondering what transmission will go in place of the 700r4 in my 86 short bed k10? I know a standard shift would go in there, but what has to be changed?

Would I need another driveshaft? Transfer case I know needs to be changed also right? Besides the pedals and linkage/bellhousing and such what needs to be changed? Crossmember? Move it forward or back or has to be changed?


What about a non lock up 350? Would it work with the 700r4 transfer case? If so do I need a short or long tail? Or would a th400 work in place with the case?

Do I need another transfer case that's transmission specific, example: th350 tranny and th350 t case?

Will the crossmember work? Does it need moved back or forward? Will the driveshafts work.

It's gonna be 1900 bucks to rebuild the 700r4 and I don't like it. I'd rather have a non lock up 350 or 400 maybe or standard shift. I just wonder what other parts I need or need to modify to work?

[roundedline]

Find another shop to rebuild the 700R4, it shouldn't cost more than $700 to rebuild one completely local to you.  

www.bowtieoverdrives.com/...p?ITEMID=7 has one for $895 for comparison.

www.bowtietrans.com/levelonetrans.html  has one for $799.

What has to be changed to go to a manual, you won't be able to use your t-case, you would need a new pedal assembly and all related hardware, a flywheel, clutch assembly, z-bar assembly, a hole in the floorboard.  It won't be a simple task.

Chris Lucas
www.73-87chevytrucks.com
www.captkaoscustoms.com
Project Su
Jimmy 2WD Project

[benoit454]

Sounds like a rebuilt unit from autozone or advanced would be cheaper, but my dads hates thoose kind and won't use them. He had bad luck with them in the past.

That price was from a friend of ours and the ONLY trans. shop anywheres close to us. Only thing reasonable was that he was going to put everything new in, servos, torque convertor, kickdown cable, all that.


I have some misc. pieces for a stick shift and the rest are in an old truck I can get parts from probably if it's still there. I have stuff like a big flywheel and bellhousing, and like some linage pieces and the pedals and z bar are still in the parts truck.

[roundedline]

He had back luck with 700R4's in the past or the companies listed?

Anything before 1988 in 700R4's (1982-1987) were problematic, the 1988-1993 had all of the updates in them.  Any that would be rebuilt would have all the updates in them (or should).  All the local places here charge around $600 for a 700R4.

It is a MAJOR undertaking to switch to a manual from automatic.

Chris Lucas
www.73-87chevytrucks.com
www.captkaoscustoms.com
Project Su
Jimmy 2WD Project

[benoit454]

He had problems dealing with jasper rebuilt transmissions he bought one for a trans am and was junk. We've also had plenty of friends and family who have purchased rebuilt engines and transmissions from the chain stores that offer them and had no luck with them.

[roundedline]

Ok, maybe I misread you post.  I would avoid AutoZone anything...  Jasper typically has a good product, but the ones I listed aren't chains.  

You should be able to find someone that can rebuild it for around $700 locally..

Chris Lucas
www.73-87chevytrucks.com
www.captkaoscustoms.com
Project Su
Jimmy 2WD Project

[benoit454]

Well from other reading it seems a th350 has the same output and is like 3/4 shorter/longer then the 700 so it should go in place. I just wonder if I need a long tail or short tail to bolt up to the tranfer case, or if my factory transfer case would bolt to the 350.

From what I've seen the long tail is the one that bolts pretty much right in place. I just don't know a 4x4 nobody has any info on it.

Also that price was one my dad came up with, he hasn't even checked with his friend yet on a rebuild price. I figure it to be about 700 also.

The rebuild kits are 110-200 depending on where they come from.

[79ChevyK20Guy]

You could rebuild the trans yourself for around 100 bucks but yes a TH-350 or a 4L60E/4L80E is a direct replacement for a 700R4

[Blazin]

The 700R4 tranfer case and one for a TH 350 are the same except the input shaft diam. and spline count. In other words you will need a T case from a TH 350 or swap the input shaft for a TH350 into your T case.
The 4L60E, 4L80E do bolt in but the 4L60E, 4L80E are computer controled.
Why don't you look around for a used tranmision or truck with a good trans in it?
If you dont want to move your crossmember there is an adapter availible to go between the trans and T case for 700R4 to TH350 swap it comes with a splined sleeve. it been a while since I have heard of anyone getting one so I am not sure if they are still availible. as far as factory ones there are two that I know of. They started useing 208s with TH 350s & TH400s for about a year and a half before the 700R4s. That is one adapter,
( A short shaft two wheel drive TH350 with about an inch cut off the output shaft will mount up to a 208 made to mate a TH350 )
Then they went to the 700R4s those adapters are diferent length.
I have swaped 2 autos over to standards, The first one I peice mealed from several trucks and a parts pile. The second one I swaped everything from one donor truck to the auto truck. It was a pain but not half as bad as the first. I would most likely not do it agian either way.

[benoit454]

Hey i forgot about this post. From what i read the output shafts on the 700r4 and the 350 are same spline count. I done numerous searches online for specs and found out dimensions and specs, same splines, but th350 case from bell to tail is about 2 inches shorter. So I need a spacer to keep the driveshafts, and crossmember the same. I traded a th400 I got that had a cracked bellhousing and a full time POS np203 transfer case to a guy who is building me a th350 to bolt up to my 700r4. he bought a kit that included dust cover, output shaft, and spacer, and misc. to convert from 700 to 350. kit cost about 150 bucks and I found the same kit online. I can find the links and post if someone is interested.

[79ChevyK20Guy]

Hey, I have an output shaft a cross member and an np208 transfer case that were all used with a th-350 if you are interested

Edited by: 79ChevyK20Guy at: 11/7/06 3:56 pm

[alansres]

Don't do it!!  The 700R4 is what makes the new trucks so good.  With a 3.00 first gear to get it moving, to the .66 overdrive to allow a low rear axle ratio and to get gas mileage in a 4 x 4.   The later transmissions 93 up are called 4L60-E and are electronic models that can be controlled only by a computer.  (4=4 speed, L=longitudinal, 60=6000 lbs gross, E=electronic)  

When the 700 4Rs came out they were terrible and weak, but GM kept improving them until today they can handle 600HP if built right.  There are many articles about how to build them.  There are several parts that have to be upgraded.  They do hold up extremely well and if you want firm shifts that is easily possible.  If you cannot build it yourself, there are many good builders out there and I can't see a good build and parts going over 700 dollars.   You can't touch a manual setup for that and you would not have overdrive with a manual.  It is not all that hard to switch to a manual, you just need the pedal and shaft inside, the outside linkage and bellcrank, the housing, flywheel, clutch, release bearing, and the tranny. The transfer case(a NV341 that you have now) bolts to the tranny. Fairly easy overall.  The tranny (a four speed) will get 4-500 in a wrecking yard and the pedal and parts about $100.  The yard might do the parts for the core 700R4.  But by the time you put the cost of a new clutch disk, release bearing, tranny you will be in about $600 and the 700R4 wouln't cost any more to beef and build.  I can give you the name a a good builder in Carson City, Nevada, and you would love a 700R4 that he built.

Look what you have:  a 4 x 4 that can get gasmileage, an automatic that has a lockup torque converter and overdrive, and a low first gear.  And whats nice is that even if you are determined to put in a manual, you can get a minimum of $100 for a truck 700R4 which has the strong case.

If I were you I would rethink the situation.  

Alansres

[VileZambonie]

You do realize this post is 2 months old right?

Quote:I can't see a good build and parts going over 700 dollars

You're looking at book time for overhaul at about 12 hours. I charge $90/hr 90x12 = $1080 Labor + parts.

Quote:.66 overdrive

That is the problem with this trans is the overdrive ratio. Unless you gear it lower (numerically higher) you are actually opening the throttle more just push it along especially with oversize tires and then the annoying constant 3-4/4-3 shifts.

Quote:You can't touch a manual setup for that and you would not have overdrive with a manual.

Why not?

[alansres]

1. I did not notice that it was 2 months old at first.

2. I know a good builder in Carson City Nevada who will do a performance rebuild (not r & r) for $6-700 on a 700 4R that came out of a truck and is at least an 87.

3. Because there is no manual with OD that fits a transfer case, in this case the NV341.

As far as the advantages:  You may not know that the way to get gas mileage with a gas engine is to keep the throttle open to reduce pumping losses.  This, with a carburetor is tricky as the throttle must be open enough to reduce vacuum without opening the power valve.  The .66 OD ratio is ideal to use with a one step lower gear ratio as you can load the engine and still keep the rpm down.  To avoid the annoying shift down, to third, the throttle cable needs careful adjustment.  You can load the engine to 1800 rpm prior to shiftdown to third.  With the 3.00 1st gear and one step lower axle ratio (in most trucks from 3.73 to 4.10) you will have great acceleration to OD and a ratio that will allow you to pull OD at a fairly low engine RPM.  My 03 Silverado Extended Cab gets 19.5MPG at 70 at an rpm of 2100.  It is a 4 x 4 with 3.73s with 255/75 16s.  My '56 Ford F250 4 x 4 with 350 SBC  FI tuned port with 700 R4 and NV 341 Transfer case with 4.10s and 255/75-16s gets 18 at 70.  It is a flatbed and less slick than the Silverado, and has a bigger engine.  

[VileZambonie]

Quote:You may not know that the way to get gas mileage with a gas engine is to keep the throttle open to reduce pumping losses. This, with a carburetor is tricky as the throttle must be open enough to reduce vacuum without opening the power valve.

You may not know this but the speed of a gas engine is controlled by the opening of the throttle plate (unlike a diesel) therefore the more air the engine takes in the more the fuel must be metered in. Whatever fuel metering device you have be it carburetor or EFI it's job is to acheive the proper a/f mixture for driving conditions. An efi system can better acheive stoichiometry than a carbureted system obviously but a carbureted system does not acheive better fuel economy by opening the throttle more. Maintaining the correct air fuel ratio and not holding the throttle wide open constantly will acheive the best MPG results. I think you are trying to hit on volumetric efficieny which is nowhere near the same topic as fuel efficiency.