MY GM PREDICTIONS:

[smitty77]

Hey. I happen to like my 07 Buick Lucerne. (OK so it's an old people car- i'm an old people)

Not knocking your Lucerne, but it looks a heck of a lot like this Malibu:

Therefore i feel/surmise that the small cosmetic/front end/rear end differences are minimal in terms of cost.

This illustrates the big problem with GMs overall corporate structure and wasting money on supporting "competing" dealerships and the money wasted on re-tooling to produce essentially the same car 2-4 times over.  I don't care how little it costs for "the small cosmetic differences" - your company is failing so you make the cuts necessary to survive.  They saw the writing on the wall years ago when they finally axed Oldsmobile.  They should have done the same to Buick, Pontiac, and GMC at the same time, but they were too stupid to do so.

Ford woke up and stopped making Lincoln and Ford models compete - very few models have cousins across the table now.  Chrysler finally got the memo and did the same and axed the Plymouth badge as well as some of the competing Dodge/Chrysler models (remember the Dodge Neon and the Plymouth Breeze? how about the Caravan and the Voyager - same cars, different badge).

GM deserves the mess they're in.

[Stewart G Griffin]

So if having multiple twins was so bad, then why did GM do it for over 55 years?

[smitty77]

So if having multiple twins was so bad, then why did GM do it for over 55 years?

Because some loyal customers buy on brand loyalty alone, car after car, and GM relied on this to keep selling vehicles.  They nurtured this business model until it became essential to their survival.  I know lots of guys who would buy a GMC, but wouldn't touch the exact same Chevy truck because they thought they were "junk".  GM played each brand against each other for years.  But counting on brand loyalty will only get you so far.

Now look at the pickle they've put themselves in:  They've lost market share and need to get lean but they can't for fear of alienating "brand" customers when they need them the most.  There were lots of hard feeling after Olds was dropped, and I know it's the same "counter culture" of owners that has kept Saturn going.  I've owned 2 Saturns, I know first hand how fanatic some owners are.  I heard a lot of online chatter akin to "I'll never buy another GM if they axe Saturn."  I stopped buying them when GM officially took Saturn under it's corporate wing sometime in the early 2000s and when the re-design of the SL1/2 series was another corporate GM turd.  My faith in Saturn was gone at that point.  By the same token, GM can't drop GMC and push those customers over to Chevy trucks after all those years of "We are professional grade".  They'll feel scorned and go buy a Ford or Dodge instead.

And remember, 55 years ago much of GMs competition didn't even exist.  They've been losing market share every year for at least 30 years, and probably all 55.  The titanic had a hole and was sinking all along.  You can't sail along doing nothing and expect to be okay.  Something had to give....

[1HI4x4]

So if having multiple twins was so bad, then why did GM do it for over 55 years?

Because some loyal customers buy on brand loyalty alone, car after car, and GM relied on this to keep selling vehicles.  They nurtured this business model until it became essential to their survival.  I know lots of guys who would buy a GMC, but wouldn't touch the exact same Chevy truck because they thought they were "junk".  GM played each brand against each other for years.  But counting on brand loyalty will only get you so far.

Now look at the pickle they've put themselves in:  They've lost market share and need to get lean but they can't for fear of alienating "brand" customers when they need them the most.  There were lots of hard feeling after Olds was dropped, and I know it's the same "counter culture" of owners that has kept Saturn going.  I've owned 2 Saturns, I know first hand how fanatic some owners are.  I heard a lot of online chatter akin to "I'll never buy another GM if they axe Saturn."  I stopped buying them when GM officially took Saturn under it's corporate wing sometime in the early 2000s and when the re-design of the SL1/2 series was another corporate GM turd.  My faith in Saturn was gone at that point.  By the same token, GM can't drop GMC and push those customers over to Chevy trucks after all those years of "We are professional grade".  They'll feel scorned and go buy a Ford or Dodge instead.

And remember, 55 years ago much of GMs competition didn't even exist.  They've been losing market share every year for at least 30 years, and probably all 55.  The titanic had a hole and was sinking all along.  You can't sail along doing nothing and expect to be okay.  Something had to give....






well said........................

[DnStClr]

Toyota must be on their way out-
2010 Corolla looks a lot like the 2010 Camry.

[smitty77]

Heard Bob Lutz on CNBC radio yesterday.  The new GM is doomed with him at the helm.

And I'm not talking about the Volt, it seems like it might do well in the hybrid market.  But listen to his comments beyond the 3:00 mark in the video.  They're talking about vehicles from Big 3 being traded-in for import vehicles.  His short answer - "We're not seeing it.  Our sales have spiked dramatically."  Sure your sales are up, but the sales of other auto makers are up more.  YOU"RE STILL LOSING MARKET SHARE!!!!!!!!  According to Lutz, "we were pleasantly surprised with 20-point-something percent in July."  Are you kidding?  With 6 brands and a record-breaking stimulus for people to go out and buy cars (Chevy, GMC, Buick, Pontiac, Saturn, Cadillac), you're happy with only 20% of the market??  His comment of "I don't know where you're getting your data" was priceless.  Don't worry Bob, keep putting your head a little further up your own backside.  Great way to instill confidence in your investors and future customers.
Pompous $@*&#%^

Video is here:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1211947732&play=1


Don, as for the Corolla and Camry looking a lot alike, I think I read somewhere the Corolla is being phased out in 2-3 years.  The Camry of today seems much smaller than I remembered in the past, so I'm assuming they're looking at that model to be their new "small sedan".  With the Scion line, they don't really need another micro car like the Corolla.

[Stewart G Griffin]

1) Camry and accord are the new impala.  This ain't 69, it's 2009.

a)i think one of the main problems is that too many people think just because i car is asian, it can do no wrong.  If a car is american, it can do no right.   At one of my jobs, i work with alot of teenagers.   All they talk about is nissan, honda etc., because it's trendy.   We discussed pontiac, but they really have no true understanding of who/what pontiac is.

What's going to change things and perception is styling.  And not the lame styling welburn is ploping out.   i'm talking about really good styling.   This, and price cuts.

2) i agree gm is finished.  My prediction is eventually gm will only produce drivetrains and other companies will purchase them to put in their cars----much like dell puts intel processors in their computers;  i think cars are going to get like that-----assembled from pre-existing vendor parts.  Totally different brands are going to use the same body shell.   They allready look almost alike anyways----i think it's a trend.

3)

[1HI4x4]

I think the Volt is absolutely a JOKE. Tesla motors(very small car company) in California is building a car that can go 200+ miles on battery only, yet GM with billions of tax dollars can only get one to go 40 miles on battery only, I call BS on it. If you want to blow away the competitors then do it. build  a battery only car that can go 200+ miles on a charge, look like a normal car, and sell it for normal money. You won't be able to produce them fast enough. Granted they aren't for everyone, but how many of our wives, mothers, children and yes even us can get by on a 200 mile range between charges? But we won't get a battery only car until the last drop of oil is sucked out of this rock we live on, and I'll bet you the farm on that one.

[Stewart G Griffin]

The only real problem with electric/battery powered/hybrids etc. is range.  We are so used to going 300 miles before a fillup and the fillup only takes a few minutes.  How long does it take to recharge a battery to go 200miles?

One "solution" (do we even have a problem?) is diesel.

[dumbucket1]

How is diesel a solution? It comes from the same place gasoline does

[Stewart G Griffin]

i meant diesel powered.

a) we would consume less actual fuel;   diesel vs. gas

b) the diesel engine can run on other sources such as vegitable oil etc.


That's why i said "solution."    i don't think there's a problem and really for most people gas is actually the cheapest way as a diesel car is automatically going to cost 2-4K more than a gasser.

[1HI4x4]

The only real problem with electric/battery powered/hybrids etc. is range.  We are so used to going 300 miles before a fillup and the fillup only takes a few minutes.  How long does it take to recharge a battery to go 200miles?

One "solution" (do we even have a problem?) is diesel.

FYI, I sell electric lift trucks for a living. So I know a little about this technology, Enersys is testing Lithium-Ion batteries in the field right now that will give a 200+ mile range and can be recharged in about 45 minutes. So the technology is coming if it doesn't get bought up by the government and the oil companies like it did in the early 90's. Like I said above it's not for everyone......... but my wife drives 35 miles round trip to work everyday, so she could run all week without recharging the batteries. As I have said someones going to do it, I wish it would be one of the big 3, but I'm affraid they are so deep into the governments pockets that they will be told to back off of it. Battery only cars do create a big problem with a reduction in fuel taxes, so don't look for it to be widespread anytime soon. They will be able to produce a battery only car for less than $30K when they get the battery figured out. You could get that kind of range out of a lead/acid battery right now, but it would be a big boom when you crash. The lithium-ion stuff is much safer and will take a recharge much faster so that is the way to go.

If you don't believe me on the early 90's statement then do a google search on "what killed the electric car" and enjoy the reading.

[Stewart G Griffin]

i like electric technology and again, as you've pointed out, i think the only hangup is range and recharge time.  And, like your wife i could probably go all week before recharging.


2) Well at least GM IS NOT changing the logo.

3) Actually, i think we've gotten a little off topic here and we should get back to how to save pontiac.

[DnStClr]

At this point I don't think the Pontiac brand will be ressurrected, Stewart. The new GM doesn't include the car, period.  it doesn't include Saturn, nor Hummer, nor Saab, nor the high priced UAW workers. All new hourly employees make $14 per hour with reduced benefits. All retirees are taking huge cuts in their benefits as well. As a retiree this November I won't have dental, eyecare, dependent health care coverage, and the health care that is offered has been cut drastically while it costs retirees more to carry the coverage. there are other things we lost too. But the point being- you should all feel better about the UAW losing a LOT of ground this year. Now that the wage is $10 lower than our competitors we should see an enormous increase in the sales and profitability of GM as the economy starts to turn around. I'm sure glad we've gotten to this point where people can finally stop blaming those #*#! UAW workers for all the ills of GM. 
   

[Marc]

The only way to save pontiac would be for people to buy a lot of pontiacs...and why would they do that when they can buy a similar or identical Buick or Chevrolet?  GM has really neglected their small cars in the past which has hurt them today...Build a bad car (IE Cavalier or Alero/Malibu) and most likely they will buy something different in the future.  Build a good small car and they will stay with you and perhaps graduate to a bigger car.