SOUTHPARK:

[campcrf]

sgt....
   Thanks for the info... after work i am going to do some reading on that...   very interesting.

[smitty77]

Go to amazon's website and type in "Farhenheit 451" as a title of a book (Ray Bradbury) and read the summary.  Type in "Animal Farm".  Type in Orwell's "1984", Huxley's "Brave New World",  as titles as well and read those summaries.  Look at the plots of these books and ask yourself one thing,  "Are we headed that way?"

Despite being required reading for 9th and 10th grade english, Farhenheit 451 and Brave New World were a couple of the best works I have ever read.  It sickens me how people will align themselves for/against a cause without knowing the true history behind it.  They automatically align the Rebel-south as pro-slavery when in fact much of the well-to-do north held slaves as well.  The issues went a whole lot deeper than slave ownership.

i really don't know much if anything about the confederate flag.  i just know that some people are deeply offended by it which is why i edited it out.

This is a dangerous practice that has led this country to where it is now.  Kids play soccer games without keeping score so that no one has to deal with the reality of defeat.  PE in schools has been reduced to near-nothing so that fat kids don't have to deal with reality.  Kids get in trouble in school, and instead of parents backing up the teachers and administrators and teach their kids a life-lesson, they instead call the local media and threaten to sue the school system even though what junior did was wrong.

People that have issues with the confederate flag need to open a history book and do some reading.  They need to learn about the past, and then let it go.  People like Jesse Jackson keep bringing up reparation, and "I want my 40 acres and a mule".  I'll tell you what - you get your 40 acres when I get mine!  I didn't put you in chains.  My ancestors came on the boat from Finland long after the civil war, and they didn't put your ancestors in chains.  The people that did died a long time ago.  LET IT GO!

The Dukes of Hazzard rode around in a car named the General Lee (with a confederate flag on the roof) not because they were out to round up people of color to toil long days on their farm, but because "they were fightin' the system like two modern-day Robin Hoods".  They and their friends were a small army up against criminals and corruption trying to do what is right.  Yeah it's only tv, but it was representative of the general attitude of the rural south before the political correctness squashed all of the life out of this society.   You couldn't make that show today - the car would have to be a non-gas-guzzling Honda Prius with NO symbols of political affiliation anywhere on the car.  Sick.....

[Lt.Del]

It sickens me how people will align themselves for/against a cause without knowing the true history behind it.They automatically align the Rebel-south as pro-slavery when in fact much of the well-to-do north held slaves as well. 

It's called adjusting the facts to benefit them.  Also, Power is a crazy phenomenon.  People do anything for power. If it advances your personal cause, nothing is out of bounds. 

the car would have to be a non-gas-guzzling Honda Prius with NO symbols of political affiliation anywhere on the car

Crazy Cooter will have to change his name for it will offend the crazies in the country.  He would also have to wear a cleaner outfit, because mechanics will be offended to how dirty he looks.

Boss Hogg will have to change his name for fear of offending pigs in this world.  He would have to lose weight also, and not eat those turkey legs on TV for fear of offending fat people.

Bo and Luke would have to let the police seem correct and win chases sometimes so people in my profession won't look like Deputy Fife.

Daisy Duke couldn't wear, well, Daisy Dukes because the male homos will object to it.

Uncle Jesse would have to drive a white Chevy for fear of offending some people on this forum 
 

car would have to be a non-gas-guzzling Honda Prius

and the police would have to be on Seg-ways so the Toyota Prius would still outrun the cops.

[velojym]

By the way, if anyone here still actually believes that that sack o' crap lincoln actually freed the slaves...

My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.

...this in a letter to the VERY socialist Horace Greeley, whom he seemed to like and respect (no big surprise to some of us...)
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=1057

He was a power-mad dictator who wasn't above imprisoning folks who merely disagreed with him, and some of the more well-known critics were exiled. All this to keep his power base intact, and the slaves were merely a tool. Before this terrible sacrifice of over 600,000 human beings (all for Lincoln's ego), the states each had joined the union with the clear understanding that it was a VOLUNTARY union.
Well, no longer... and the powers that be were more than willing to slaughter hundreds of thousands in order to reverse that understanding.

Of course, the people in the north could easily have stopped it, but they were directly benefiting from the relationship... so much as we do now, they allowed much evil to occur.

[Lt.Del]

ah yes, the infamous letter to Horace Greeley.  I have nothing against Lincoln.  He was trying to preserve the Union. Only after Antietam, which pushed the Confederates back from northern soil, did he announce his Emmancipation Proclamation.  In fact, by announcing that, the biggest riots ini US history took place in New York...the NY Draft riots...northerners didn't want to be forced to fight to free the slaves.

I don't blame Lincoln one bit for doing that.  He was right when he said, "A house divided against itself can not stand".   He was just doing what should've been done in our founding fathers' times---Answering the slavery issue once and for all. Henry Clay's  Missouri Compromise of 1850 didn't solve the problem.  The Dred Scott issue didn't solve the problem.  When John Brown conducted his Harper's Ferry Raid in 1859, it simply pushed the issue again to the fore front.  Something had to be be done.  None of this happened under Lincoln's watch. Yet, the time was right.  As a country, we had to bite the bullet and come what may.

Lincoln did not ask South Carolina to take control of Ft. Sumter and kick Col. Anderson and the federal troops out.  But, Lincoln had to react to that. I don't blame Lincoln.  It was inevitable. 


 

[velojym]

The E.P. was merely a slap in the face to the southern states, as it was carefully worded so that
any state "not in open revolt" need not fear losing their own slaves.

The rest we'll leave as a matter of opinion, I suppose, as I don't think sacrificing so many people in order
to make a transition from individual and states' rights to a strong central government was in the spirit of what most of the Founding Fathers wanted. Yeah, Hamilton and his cronies wanted what amounted to yet another monarchy, and did a lot of damage to the nation's founding documents, but what Lincoln did in the name of maintaining his empire was, in my OPINION, unconscionable.
Also, it was interesting that Lincoln would try to "fight slavery" with yet another form of slavery... conscription.

I'm pretty sure lots of bad stuff was done down south, as well. I wasn't alive then, so all I have to go on are history accounts, most of which are usually written by the victors.
I also have a healthy distrust of tyrants, regardless of how much they're worshiped. When the Constitution got in his way, he just set it aside and did what he liked anyway.

[choptop]

The whole slavery issue needs to remain in history, not the present. Why do we have to be continually reminded about it, and made to feel like we were at fault for it. Forget it?...no way, it is a mistake in history that needs to be remembered, so it isnt made again. My family didnt have slaves, why should I feel guilty about slavery. Neither I, nor my family had anything to do with it. In fact, my family originally came from Ireland, and from the family stories handed down, they were slaves. Treated like trash, beat, did whatever it took just to survive. SgtDel, you know more on history than anyone I have ever known, and it is trully awesome, so maybe you can help me with this. What I was told in stories handed down from my families history(O'dorries, later shortened to Dorries), is the first slaves "in a sense" were white Irish, and others that I cant remember. The africans were brought in later, because it was too easy for the white slaves to "disappear" among the population, and that the black African slaves were actually sold by their own black African people, not white people. Im not all knowing in history. I know my family went through alot just trying to survive, my aunts and uncles, and my mom, all grew up picking cotton for pennies a day. Should I feel oppressed and lash out over something my family went through? Where's my sympathy for the trauma my great, great, great grandpa went through when he brought the family over? (I dont know if there is enough greats in there, but it was a long time ago) I dont think I need any sympathy. I dont know what mental and physical anguish my family went through. I wasnt there, and no one ever walked around as if we were owed something because of how we were treated. I had 4 uncles, all veitnam vets, and both grandpas fought in WWII, and it took an act of congress to convince them to go to the VA for medical assistance. In their eyes, no one owed them anything for their sacrifice, so why do we owe apologies and sympathy to those who never actually experienced the hardships of slavery> Anyone here know someone who was a salve, and is still alive? I dont. Sorry guys, Im just tired of those who think they should be treated better than everyone else, when they werent ever treated badly in the first place. Last I heard, your families pain and suffering wasnt hereditary.

[velojym]

I agree. When folks start talking about 'reparations', I can only look at 'em funny.
After all, I've never owned a slave in my life. Quite the opposite... every Tax Day, I'm
reminded that I am, myself, a slave.

[Lt.Del]

good points.

but what Lincoln did in the name of maintaining his empire was, in my OPINION, unconscionable.

I know what you mean.  The suspension of Habeus Corpus was one of the defining actions of Lincoln's administration.  he could lock up anyone for no reason when war broke out.  He couldn't do that today...well, I shouldn't say that.  Who knows what tomorrow will hold.

 

SgtDel, you know more on history than anyone I have ever known, and it is trully awesome, so maybe you can help me with this. What I was told in stories handed down from my families history(O'dorries, later shortened to Dorries), is the first slaves "in a sense" were white Irish, and others that I cant remember. The africans were brought in later, because it was too easy for the white slaves to "disappear" among the population, and that the black African slaves were actually sold by their own black African people, not white people

I don't know when the first slaves were, but, they were around in the Roman Empire.  A conquered city/country's citizens became slaves of the Romans.  

Australia, England, etc...all had African slaves because they were easy to obtain.  Shipping merchants could make mints by arriving at the west coast of Africa and captured people would literally be waiting in line in exchange for money for their capturers--many Africans themselves.

It started in Virginia, and therefore on American soil, in  1619 in Jamestown, Va graduating from indentured servants, those who instead of paying money for their transport, signed the next seven years away of their lives in labor.  Insodoing, they learned a trade and were able to save money from their masters and when their time was up, they could buy their own piece of land.  On all branches of my ancestral lines, that is how my family started in this country...well, before it was a country...1750's and before.  I traced one of my ancestors to 1609 Jamestown who came accross with John Rolfe (who married Pocohontas and was first to grow tobacco, which became the new-gold for the company) and George Somers (who founded Bermuda for the English) on board the SeaVenture, which wrecked on Bermuda after a Tempest of a huricane which became the basis of Shakespeare's Tempest when news travelled back to England.

But this ancestor, John Proctor, paid his own way, and, brought others with him. Each person he brought with him, he received 50 acres from the King.   I have been to his former plantation, not far from present-day Philip Morris south of Richmond. There is still Proctor's Creek that flows into the James River near present-day I-95.  Their goal then was to do whatever to populate this colony for the Virginia Company of London. see http://www.delbridge.net/seaventure

I know my family went through alot just trying to survive, my aunts and uncles, and my mom, all grew up picking cotton for pennies a day.

My dad's brother and sisters and he did the same thing.  a nickel a bushel of cotton.  It would take all day to pick two bushels. He quit school to support his mother and his siblings, since he was the oldest boy. Joined the Marine Corp in the '50's.  'nam broke out.  He retired in late '60's from military and went to work for the Post Office, keeping his federal time going.  He did great.  Retired at 50 with 34 years in federal gov't. He worked for everything he got. He has two houses, with one being on the Chesapeake Bay. He had only a 10th grade education. Why can't others do that?


Now, why is this still an issue in this country where it is not in others?  I'm gonna throw out two names and see what ya think.  These people keep the issue going because it keeps their names in the headlines and it benefits their popularity and, therefore, pocket book.
Jesse Jackson
Al Sharpton
 
Look at one of my blogs at www.PonderedThoughts.com and click on my July 2009 entries.  Now you can add that Harvard Professor, Dr. Henry Louis Gates to the list.  Because he acted like a fool in his house, he got an invitation for a Beer Summit at the White House with the President.  Only in America.

 

[Lt.Del]

Smitty, your points are right on target too.

Quote from: Stewart G Griffin
i really don't know much if anything about the confederate flag.  i just know that some people are deeply offended by it which is why i edited it out.

This is a dangerous practice that has led this country to where it is now.  Kids play soccer games without keeping score so that no one has to deal with the reality of defeat.  PE in schools has been reduced to near-nothing so that fat kids don't have to deal with reality.  Kids get in trouble in school, and instead of parents backing up the teachers and administrators and teach their kids a life-lesson, they instead call the local media and threaten to sue the school system even though what junior did was wrong.

[Grover 1]

Sgt Del, I share your views completely.  They are, however not popular at the present time.  I belong to a group online from my old high school class, it's the class of 1967 by the way, yep I'm a geezer.  I am always writing letters to the boneheads that I graduated with telling them to beware of the federal government/PC crowd.  I think I'm the only one that feels that way.  The rest are welcoming Obama and all his federal programs and czars with open arms.  I just want the government to leave me alone.  I've done fine by myself for the last 50 years, at least my business has made a profit for the last 31 years.

Jackson and Sharpton need unrest, without it they're out of business.  A lot of folks get it, but too many don't.  Nobody questions anything they do.  Every program Jackson has been involved in has questionable financial goings on.  Someone should ask Sharpton to explain his involvement in the Towanda Brawley incident and the Jackson Heights riot.  I love my country, these poor kids that grew up in the 80's have no idea how great it used to be - I feel very sorry for them - although, you can't miss what you never had, [Perhaps they're the lucky ones.

[Captkaos]

Ok, we went from Southpark to Slavery?  how about letting this one rest, it has gotten WAY off subject.