More stuff for the ADD, pt.1

[Stewart G Griffin]

quote, "stew do you have an engine to frame ground etc....."
i don't think i have an eng-to-frame ground, but i will check.  Where would this be on a 83 stocker?   i know i have the cyl head to firewall small braided wire, but this doesn't count?

The other thing i noticed, and if anyone can provide a picture of a completely stock setup this would be greatly appreciated, is that looking at a picture of a presumably stock setup, there is a star washer underneath where the big main batt cable bolts to the alternator bracket.   i don't have a star washer on mine and it wouldn't suprise me if something this simple could be the culprit, but we'll see.


2) will check all connections using the multimeter;  i kind of figured to use the 20 DCV when testing the battery from watching some online videos, but why the 2000/funny, i'm assuming, ohm symbol when checking resistance, grounds etc.?

[78 Chevyrado]

quote, "stew do you have an engine to frame ground etc....."
i don't think i have an eng-to-frame ground, but i will check.  Where would this be on a 83 stocker?   i know i have the cyl head to firewall small braided wire, but this doesn't count?

The other thing i noticed, and if anyone can provide a picture of a completely stock setup this would be greatly appreciated, is that looking at a picture of a presumably stock setup, there is a star washer underneath where the big main batt cable bolts to the alternator bracket.   i don't have a star washer on mine and it wouldn't suprise me if something this simple could be the culprit, but we'll see.


2) will check all connections using the multimeter;  i kind of figured to use the 20 DCV when testing the battery from watching some online videos, but why the 2000/funny, i'm assuming, ohm symbol when checking resistance, grounds etc.?

I'm not sure if they came with that star washer, but I think so.  If I had one that it was missing on, I always added one.

2 - Actually you can use any of the selections for OHMs.  I use around 2000 I think because it seems to be a good sensitivity to me.  If you choose 200 it will still work, just won't be as sensitive.  If you use 2000k  it will be way sensitive and you'll have a hard time telling whats bad and whats not.  try all the different settings and see what you think.  it's all preference.

It's kind of like the DCV settings.  if you set it to 200V it will show whole numbers (like showing 12V instead of 12.4V)  so to get the x.xx numbers you have to set it to 20V.

[Stewart G Griffin]

(NOTE: i've been "reassigned" to 3rd shift so hopefully the pattern will work like this---work and report on the truck from noon to about 4,5,6ish.  Hopefully, this can be consistent)

1) So what happened as far as the main negative cable is concerned is i took it off the truck, put the dial on the multimeter to 2000ohm and put the leads at the opposite ends of the cables and basically got a 0 reading even when moving the cable around.  i also experimented with different dial ohm settings and pretty much 0 except for the 2000K setting but that's probably too high?

i also did this with the smaller branched out cable and also got 0 reading.

i'm not sure what this means.

Also note that i used the very tips of the leads when touching the cables because i think this gives a more consistent reading?  i noticed that if you use the side of the leads and if you move them around the reading changes.  So, by using the tips only when moving the cables around this would help determine if in fact the cable is bad or is it because the surface area of contact by the lead is changing?

2) As far as alternator bracket grounding,  i put a lead on the bracket and then tried putting a lead on the block but the meter read 1 and stayed that way even on different dial settings.   Then bracket and exhaust manifold and still reads 1--no change on the meter.

[Layne]

A reading of zero or close to it is good. OL- out of limits means its broke somewhere

[SUX2BU99]

Put it on the 200 setting when checking resistance in wires. The resistance should be a fraction of an ohm (meaning very little resistance to pass current, which is what a properly functioning cable should do). You should get a reading of something less than 0.10 ohms, but certainly less than 1.0 ohms.

[VileZambonie]

Ohming out a battery cable is a waste of time. The only "good" way to find resistance in a battery cable is by voltage drop testing. I can elbarote in

great detail

on how to do this if you wish later but as far as your no crank condition...

1)Make sure the truck is in park....try to start... Then try Neutral

2)Take your test light to ground and touch the S terminal. Have an assistant crank the engine. See if it lights up.

[Stewart G Griffin]

1) will try neutral start, but just out of a hunch i don't think the Neutral safety switch is the problem.....  Actually, this is not good diagnostic strategy.  Shame on me.  Never go on hunches,  never ASSume anything.

2) i don't want to involve anyone else so, i do have a remote starter thing;  Is there a way to use/wire this w/out starting the engine/damaging anything?  In other words, ability to crank but not start the engine?

Actually, this is stupid too;  we need to know if power is coming from this wire;  Using a remote starter would not tell us this.  So, i need to involve another person.  (?)

[Stewart G Griffin]

OK, i tried #1 that you presrcibed and the truck actually started up and ran for a few secs and i didn't even have to pump it in this cold weather(because i just wanted to see if it would crank not run so i didn't pump it) and i'll discuss all this more in sec.

i unhooked the small branch ground wire that goes to the radiator support to see if i could isolatethe problem to the large main wire.  When i did this, no lights, no cranking, no dash lights nothing.

i also noticed simultaneously that the bolt on top on the alternator bracket the bolts down this large main negative from battery wire is basically stripped (sounds like a familiar theme?) and basically you can't get it real tight---it will just screw in to barely snug and then pop out.
So, i fiddled around with it to try to get it tight enough to ground and yes, it can if you get it just right, but then after the vibration of the engine starting and then stopping it lost ground, so i think i may have isolated the problem.  (the smaller wire was still unconnected).

i will probably continue more on the problem tommorrow as i have to go to work.   And working 3rd shift is better than working no shift.

[VileZambonie]

Put the long alternator bolt through the eyelet on the negative cable and bolt it there.

[smitty77]

i unhooked the small branch ground wire that goes to the radiator support to see if i could isolatethe problem to the large main wire.  When i did this, no lights, no cranking, no dash lights nothing.

i also noticed simultaneously that the bolt on top on the alternator bracket the bolts down this large main negative from battery wire is basically stripped (sounds like a familiar theme?) and basically you can't get it real tight...

Then I would say you've isolated your problem.  As we suspected, that little wire was serving as the entire path to ground when things got shaking enough to pop loose that large cable to the alt bracket.  While you're replacing that bolt on the alt-bracket, scrape the paint off the bracket where the wire mates to it and clean it up good before your re-attach everything.

Nice work Stewart!

[Marc]

Ground to the engine, not the frame - as your biggest draw is the starter motor.  Run a heavy wire - 4 or 8 ga. to the the cab and rad support and frame.  If it is not starting  verify that the purple wire is on S and not I.  That would cause it not to start.

[Stewart G Griffin]

Yes, i got the wiring right--the starter will turn over provided i can get good ground.

Anyways, the next step is to rebuild or get a new cable.  As you can see from the above pictures #2 and 3, that smaller branch wire's outer jacket is toasted and i feel it would be unnessesarily risky to re-use this cable.

i'm not opposed to building my own replacement, but i figured it would be easier to try to get a stock replacement.

a) This cable is apparently discontined by GM as i found out at the dealer.   (more "old GM,  new GM" horse manure)

b) Prestolite, which i think is top quality, has a pre-made application available, but who carries prestolite?

c) Year one has new GM cables in stock for $23.

d) Other suggestions as far as custom/do it yourself ideas?

[4x4orbust]

i had bought a new ground cable at advanced, and it had that core support ground cable built in.   i did have to extend it 6" to reach the core support, but it is working just fine.

[Stewart G Griffin]

i will try advance soon.  i do have some aftermarket autoparts store type cables which i used for the test stand.

What i'm mainly concerned about as far as building my own is where/how the small branch connection is connected to the main terminal:



---the auxillary ground wires on the aftermarket are smaller than on the stock setup.   i feel this is not a good thing,  so this is why i'm asking how this connection is made so i can make a new one with a larger gage wire.

--- Could i just make an auxillary ground wire with and "O" terminal and just sandwich it between the main cable end and the battery terminal?

[VileZambonie]

The wire on the cable is fine.