'87 4x4 & Good Story

[Blake_H]

A little background.  I sold my '01 F-350 crew cab a couple of years ago to get rid of the payment and use some of the money for the purchase of a house.  Right after we sold it, I bought an '86 Chevy crew cab. It ran great and the reasoning I gave my wife was that it was no payment, and if it broke I could fix it.  That was something I couldn't do with the Ford.  But while we were picking up our new race car trailer, I began to regret getting rid of the diesel.  My brother picked up the trailer with his F-350 and met us in Kansas City.  He got on the freeway on ramp and was doing 80 mph dragging that 44 ft. monster in no time, and the '86 was huffing and puffing trying to keep up with him.

On the way home we had nothing but problems, and a 2 day trip took 5.  During that frustrating drive home I almost stopped in Denver and traded it in on a diesel.  If a dealer could have gotten us a gooseneck hitch, it would been a done deal.  Anyway, when I got home the crew cab would run fine without the trailer, so I drove it.  That's how I found this board, looking to see if anyone had swapped an 8.1l into a square body.  So now we had a house that desperately needed to be remodeled.  12 cats kept inside for 7 years will do that for you.  Yes, we knew it going in, but it was a really good deal, and it came with acre and half of land.  But then one Saturday afternoon, the driver's side head gasket let loose completely and the '86 was dead.  But my boss allowed me to use the company truck for the next 9 months while we worked on the house.

My wife kept bugging me to buy a newer truck that wouldn't have to worry about to get around in and pick up materials with.  I again said I didn't want to deal with payments and higher maintenance costs.  So, I found this '87 in Idaho, where I grew up, and we took some time off and went and got it.  It was a good deal and drove great coming home.  That was last August.  We found out that it had to have smog equipment to be registered.  My wife and I went to the local pick your own yard and found all the parts.  2 cases of heat  stroke later we had it all.  We passed smog and registered it.  Good times.

But they didn't last long.  It started running rough.  After some work and input from this board  I got most the problems solved.  But it was still running funny.  It seemed like it was misfiring in one of the cylinders every so often.  But, hey it was running and we were getting our house finished, so I figured I would swap in a 5.3l after we moved in and got settled and got the crew cab finished.  Then on the way to the orange home improvement store, we stopped at my parents to help my dad, and white smoke started pouring out from underneath the truck.  We thought the truck was on fire it was so bad.

I started to check spark plugs after cooled off, and the first one I took out, number 2, had coolant pouring out of it.  This was in early November.  So, I started to look at my options, and smooth over things with my wife, who was worried that we now had 2 trucks that were dead and no time or money to fix them. 

It looked like the best option was to find a used tbi engine and swap it in.  I cruised CL and local papers and found a Suburban that needed work.  I had seen guys on this board with complete donor vehicles, and thought hey, this is the way to go.  I went and looked at it, in the dark, and the owner said he put all new stuff in it, but didn't have time to finish it.  After negotiating hard, I picked it up for $400.00.  I was stoked.  I got it towed to my parents house, in the dark, and then started pulling the motor.

When I got the motor out and on the engine stand, my dad was looking at and asked why the manifold didn't seem to line up with the heads.  When I looked at it closer, I realized that the reason I got such a good deal on it was the PO had put pre-87 heads on it and couldn't get the tbi manifold to mate up.  So he gave up and I got it.

Due to time constraints, and financial constraints, I decided to pick up a '94 tbi motor from a client on trade and put that in.  I could keep the suburban for the cherry front clip and running gear, so all was well.

[Blake_H]

So, I got the '94 motor installed and hooked up.  I was rather proud of myself for getting it done.  I installed the motor by myself, which I had never done before.  I did the requisite changes, oil pump, new distributor and Edelbrock manifold.  I even rebuilt the throttle body on my own, which after trying to rebuild a carb in high school, was an achievement.

To say the least, I was stoked.  It was a relief.  Not to mention, I had to do all this freezing cold weather on the driveway of there house, in the snow and rain.  But, while it ran better, and seemed better, it still seemed to be off.  Not quite right.  This past week, my dad did me a huge favor and took it to a mechanic.  Turns out my new to me motor, has a bad valve guide, and something is holding the number 1 intake valve open.  I have 130 compression on 7 cylinders, but 80 on number 1.

So, now I'm back to swapping a head.  My dad thought he was being funny and said he thought I could have had a 5.3l swapped in, in the same amount of time and money.  He might be right.  But now, one of the three motors I have is going to be donating a head. 

Sorry for this being long on words, and short on photos.  I got sick on Thursday, and have been sitting around bored, and decided to share the story.  I will take more pictures while I do the head swap next week.

[Grover 1]

You're right, great story!  Also, great looking 'burb.  Good luck with it.

[jaredts]

You've had a string of bad luck, but just keep pluggin' away at it.  You'll reap the rewards soon.

[choptop]

Great story. Is your crewcab a small block or a big block? If it is a bigblock, you can rebuild it and get more hp/torque for the money than what it would cost to swap in the 8.1. Ive got an 8.1 in my 01 crewcab, and even though its a beast, my 86 with the stock 454 runs every bit as well. In fact, the 454 will spin the tires, the 8.1 wont (I think its due to the Allison torque limit stuff) Ive pulled many trailers with the 454 in stock form, and think that you may have had issues with yours in the beginning. Id pull it and rebuild it for a bit more horsepower, and especially torque. I think youd be suprised what you can accomplish with it. Going from a deisel to a gas is definately a noticable change.I believe the stock 454 was 245-265 hp anyway, and mid 300's on the torque, but am not sure. The 8.1 is only rated to 340 hp, and 455 ft/lb torque, and its very easy to get 400 hp out of a 454.

[Blake_H]

Well, after 2 snow storms and enough rain to think I was living in Seattle, I finally got the head swapped and everything reassembled Sunday night.  I fired it up, and I learned that I don't know squat about adjusting valves. Last night I learned that the GM manual, and the Chilton's manual is more of a 'loose' guideline, rather than a spot on do it exactly like it says.  Fired it up and it was running good, seemed to idle high, but I was happy.  It definitely sounded better than it has in a while.

But......

The truck started to warm up, and then got warm, and then kept getting warm.  Finally when it hit 210, I shut it off.  We didn't know if I had somehow gotten the wrong water pump (didn't) or if the t-stat wasn't opening or did I put enough fluid in it (did).  Tonight, I swapped the t-stat, and started it up.  It idled high again, warmed up and temp stablized, so, cautiously optimistic, I put it in gear and held it with the brake.  Temp shot up and I shut it off.  Tomorrow nights project is to remove the t-stat entirely, and see what happens.

I am really perplexed. 2 square bodies, 2 overheating monsters that are wearing my patience. 

The nuts & bolts.
New cylinder head, drivers side.
Checked timing, spot on.
Checked plug wires.  All are correctly placed, no burns or shorts.
Made sure all passages were clear on gasket placement for manifold & head before installation.
Good oil pressure.
Valves adjusted correctly, now.
High idle.

Anyone have any thoughts?  I have a severe case of frustration, and am at a loss.

[Prong]

Did you run it with the Rad cap off to burp the cooling system? That may be the cause of the overheating.

[the dan]

ive gone threw 3 thermostats in a day. if the waterpump is good and for your year, then i bet the thermostat is the issue. i picked up a 160 at pep boys, depending how cold it is out there put a piece of cardboard half way across the rad if its under 32 degrees. the 160 will work properly, and the cardboard will help keep you warm

[Blake_H]

Did you run it with the Rad cap off to burp the cooling system? That may be the cause of the overheating.

Yes, twice.  But it doesn't take long for it to heat up and start to over flow, so I put the cap on.  It was low on fluid after cooling overnight, so we filled it up and it overheated again. This time it started to blow past the cap on the radiator after it got up to 200.  I have been using a mechanical gauge to monitor temp, as I don't trust my factory gauge.

 I have what might seem like a ridiculous question.  Which way does the fluid flow? I always assumed that the water pump pulled the fluid from the driver's side of the radiator into the intake manifold, across the t-stat and into the block and back into the radiator through the bottom, passenger side.  Do I have it wrong?

Thanks for the help.

[Blake_H]

ive gone threw 3 thermostats in a day. if the waterpump is good and for your year, then i bet the thermostat is the issue. i picked up a 160 at pep boys, depending how cold it is out there put a piece of cardboard half way across the rad if its under 32 degrees. the 160 will work properly, and the cardboard will help keep you warm

I started with a 160 t-stat, and changed it out to a 180 last night.  It isn't warm out here yet, but decent.  I wanted to do the 160 due to chip I have waiting to go in.  But, I'm not doing anything else, until I can this thing running right.  It does take this truck a while to warm up no matter what t-stat is in it.  I have to let it run for about 10 minutes and then put in gear and hold it with the brakes, and then it really takes off.

[the dan]

Goes out of the top of the motor and into the waterpump from the bottom of the rad. I was thinking about maybe u have an lt1 reverse flow waterpump, also post 87 I belive had a reverse waterpump because the serpantine belt turned thenpump the opposite direction. So what belt are you running and for what year Is your waterpump. Is your waterpump turning the same direction of your engine?

[Blake_H]

Goes out of the top of the motor and into the waterpump from the bottom of the rad. I was thinking about maybe u have an lt1 reverse flow waterpump, also post 87 I belive had a reverse waterpump because the serpantine belt turned thenpump the opposite direction. So what belt are you running and for what year Is your waterpump. Is your waterpump turning the same direction of your engine?

Thanks for the help, guys, I really appreciate it.

I have the multi belt set up, not the serpentine.  I will check to see if the water pump is spinning the same direction as the motor.  I haven't been able to mess with it to much the last couple of days, as we are trying to finish up a project by tomorrow evening for work.  Will look at it on Saturday.  I will grab another gasket and a different brand t-stat to have on the side, but I was thinking about pulling the water pump and getting a new one.  The pump is the only thing I can think of, I was wondering if I had the wrong water pump, but the part matches the number on the box, and according to the parts store, it's the correct pump. It's an '87 350 in an '87 truck, with an alleged '87 water pump.

But, I don't know, and thanks to the weather and work, I've had a chance to relax and go over it, so I'm hoping with a renewed enthusiasm, we can get it fixed this weekend.

Thanks, again for the help.  I'll post up what I find.

[the dan]

well your pictures are slightly confusing, you pulled the first pictures engine out, and pu tthe second engine picture in, and swapped the belt drive, not the water pump? the rusty pump is a reverse rotation for a serpentine

[Blake_H]

well your pictures are slightly confusing, you pulled the first pictures engine out, and pu tthe second engine picture in, and swapped the belt drive, not the water pump? the rusty pump is a reverse rotation for a serpentine

Sorry, the pictures are confusing.  I put a brand new water pump on the engine that is in the truck now, when I swapped it in.  My problem now appears to be a 'item' stuck in the intake valve runner of the number 8 hole, and is hanging the valve open, and causing the back fire.  If I disconnect the number 8 plug wire, the truck cools off pretty quick, and no back fire, no matter what I do.  So, now I am in the process of pulling it all apart and exploring what is stuck or hanging around in there.