Firefighters let house burn, owner hadnt paid fees

[Laderhosen]

It should be a legally enforceable tax. It's completely ridiculous people should be allowed not to have fire cover.

Would they have put the house out if there were people trapped? Of course they would.

[Grim 82]

It should be a legally enforceable tax. It's completely ridiculous people should be allowed not to have fire cover.

Would they have put the house out if there were people trapped? Of course they would.

I have to completely disagree with you here. People need more common sense, not more taxes and laws.

That being said, nobody pays me $75 a year to help an old lady cross the street but you can bet that when I have the oppurtunity to help, I would. That's not welfare, irresponsibility, ignorance on her part, or the result of some socialist government program where old lady's think they need everything handed to them. That's called selfless service, helping others. It's a trait that most people have forgotten that represents the American spirit and helped build this country.

On the other hand, I am a huge supporter of natural selection and thinning the herd.

[Captkaos]

I am planning on building a house in the next few years, when I was picking my lots out, I was locking for terrain, ease of access, low traffic and close proximity to a fire hydrant.

Insurance in Alabama will jack your insurance up if you are X number of feet from a hydrant.  If you are far enough away and the FD doesn't have enough hose you are relying on what they can carry in the truck to put it out, or control it enough to get close enough to fill it back up.

Living in the situation and being involved with the VOLUNTEER fire department Toolmaster was with them for 15+ years), you would be surprised at the sheer number of people the received a bill and ignored it or refused to pay.  It isn't like they are supposed to remember, people receive a bill for it, which is why I say he didn't forget.  When I moved to my first house, I got sent a bill and didn't pay because it was suppose to be deducted from my loan via equity, they sent a reminder 30 days later.  Then they realized it was getting paid and sent another one stating that it was paid.

[Lt.Del]

well said Grim. I'll help out anyone and give them the shirt off my back in a heartbeat--nothing asked. But I can't stand to see someone purposefully 'getting over' on the system that others must pay for.  They think they are going to get the same services because of the 'bleeding hearts' of society. That simply has to end.  
We don't need more taxes and more laws. We are overburdened by laws---laws that are simply reactionary on the part of the elected because the media gets involved.  Darwin had something when he said, 'survival of the fittest'--if someone is such a knucklehead to put himself or his property in more danger and has no way to fix it after the effects, why do we need more laws to protect this one individual?  nonsense.   That will just hurt the populous where we as a society will never prosper--we'll go back to the dark ages.

[1980c10]

It's just not normal to not have fire protection taken out of taxes. same as the roads, schools and police protection etc.  what if you could opt out of paying any of these?  Requiring necesary services to be taxed is not excessive.

[zieg85]

It's just not normal to not have fire protection taken out of taxes. same as the roads, schools and police protection etc.  what if you could opt out of paying any of these?  Requiring necesary services to be taxed is not excessive.

X2, works pretty well in Indiana, I just never would have thought it would have been optional.  I even pay a ditch fee because it runs in front of my property to aid when flooding occurs.  No big deal.  My $.02

[Lt.Del]

normally fire protection does come from taxes, however, i think some are missing the point that this house was not in the jurisdiction of the city, where the FD belonged to.  Those outside the city must pay in for they are not taxed by the city.  That's my understanding anyway.  They live outside the city where the FD belongs.  There must be some type of an agreement therefore an add'l payment.

[1980c10]

Well then those outside the jurisdiction should be taxed by the county and the county can then pay the city. Problem solved. The idiot's house doesn't burn to the ground, a fire cheif doesn't get a beat down, no ones arrested and the fire dept gets their money, insurance rates dont go up and so on....the whole community benefits.

[Lt.Del]

let the idiot's house burn.  I am sure their process has worked just fine for decades until this guy comes around.  The books should not be rewritten just because of one idiot. Everyone should be forced to do something because of one idiot?  (shaking my head).  Too many laws, too many laws, too many laws.  This is a nanny state because of a few losers in society we all must pay. It reminds me of no child left behind.  One child who isn't forced to do their homework and it drags the entire class down because they can't fail the guy. The school must come down to his level. Why is Japan beating us in every frekkin comparison?

[TexasRed]

You can't just charge $1,000 for each house that burns....

I said $1,000, minimum. But I guess you took it to mean maximum as well.

[Lt.Del]

You can't just charge $1,000 for each house that burns....


I said $1,000, minimum. But I guess you took it to mean maximum as well.

read on, not just partial...

I said

You can't just charge $1,000 for each house that burns....that may only be a few thousand dollars a year for the expensive FD to operate---it would have to be way, way more than that. Even a $10k fee would not motivate people to pay $75 a year--it's a gambling society, they'll take the risk. What are the odds your house will be destroyed by fire this year?  Very slim.  

and I said...

The FD would have to charge the very few number of houses that burn each year at least $30k to recoup their several hundred thousand dollar budget for trucks, equipment, staff, training, etc.. But, they would never be able to collect the money.  So, they must ignore the fire for those who don't pay.  

The FD will never be able to collect the the appropriate fees so it is a mute point.  That plan will never work no matter the fee required 'as needed'.

[TexasRed]

I disagree that most people would just gamble. If the fee was high enough, they wouldn't. Look at AAA. Their yearly fee is almost a tow.

[Lt.Del]

Try collecting a high fee.  I say, no pay ahead of time, no water.  I have levied on property, held sheriff's levy sales (they get pennies on the dollar of value of things), served warrant in debts, served garnishments, and if the defendants move, it is nearly impossible to collect fees awarded by the courts without spending as much money to find them. My guess is they would have to move after their house burns. Try finding them to collect fees after the county condemns the house.  it never ends.

stepping down from this issue.  I'm tired. 20 years in county gov't, i know what the difficulties are and how the mayor's, therefore fire chief's, hands are tied.  no win situation if they worry about the one bad apple.  Trick is ignore the one bad apple and everyone lives happily ever after and the citizen learn from the one bad apple. No need to spoil the whole bushel.

Bowing out of this discussion, i'm just repeating myself.   

[velojym]

If the fee is high enough, it'd still bring the subscription from most folks. If your $120,000 house is burning, it'd be worth it to figure out how to pay $30,000 to get it put out quickly (no guarantees from the FD that it'll hold its value, and your dealings with the insurance company are still in limbo) as opposed to losing the entire investment. Most folks would be put off by this number enough to go ahead and pay the subscription fee.

As for the "Mandatory" crowd... it's NEVER right to require someone to pay a tax at gunpoint, which is EXACTLY what happens when it is mandatory.
Guy fails to pay... where does it go from there? County evicts the guy for nonpayment? Guy doesn't leave? County sends armed goons to force him out... why are they armed? Cuz he might not want to go, so the threat of death, however gently used, is there.

 So... nope. Private property is the responsibility of the owner, especially when the value/usefulness of that property is affected. If you mail something valuable and it doesn't arrive (pretty common with the USPS, in my experience so far) and you either didn't get insurance or not enough, you're S.O.L.
...and that's with an organization you are forced to subsidize whether you use it or not.

[TexasRed]

velojym, are you aware of austrian economics or anarcho-capitalism?