Is this starter normal of faulty?

[firefighter]

Anyone have an old Chevy starter laying around that you can take a look at something for me?
Looking at the pictures below, you can see what my issue is.
When I changed the flexplate in my truck and turned the motor over with a flexplate rotating tool, I noticed the flexplate was just lightly rubbing up against a loose ring at the nose end of the starter. I didn't think it would be an issue because as the little gear comes out to engage with the flexplate, I figured it would push the loose ring toward the end of the starter so it would always be away from the flexplate.
Well...... when I engaged my starter on Saturday to start my motor after many months, the starter engaged and started the motor, but as the starter disengages to wind down, it make a high pitched squeal of sorts. It makes the awful noise every time I start the motor so it does not appear to be going away.
The only thing I can see or think of is that this little loose ring is coming back and making contact with the flexplate.
I pulled out an old starter I had (shown in the first picture) and this loose ring seems to be contained way at the nose end of the starter gear shaft where as the loose ring on the starter in my truck now (shown in the second picture) seems to be able to slide away from the nose of the starter and go toward and actually touch the flexplate.

Anyone have a starter they could look at to see how far this little loose ring can move?

Pic of old starter where the loose ring is contained way at the nose end of the starter.


Pic of the starter installed in my truck now. The loose ring is actually touching the flexplate.

[thirsty]

I just looked at one for you. The one I had is about an eighth of an inch away from the nose.
That loose ring is a stopper for the starter gear to spin on I believe. It should not touch the flexplate. Sounds like you need to shim your starter down.

[firefighter]

Hey thirsty,
Thanks a bunch for the reply!!
How do you measure if your starter needs shimmed?
I take a 1/8" drill bit and add or subtract shims until the drill bit just fits between the shaft of the starter gear and the flexplate / flywheel. Is this how you do it?
I ask because I just double checked my starter to flexplate clearance last night and it's already a bit loose. I hate to shim it down any more.
Should this loose ring on the starter actually be able to move that far toward the flexplate? Hmmmm........

[bigchevyc30]

well if it needs shimmed you will hear the teeth of the flexplate hitting that ring and it will have a ting sound to it

[firefighter]

well if it needs shimmed you will hear the teeth of the flexplate hitting that ring and it will have a ting sound to it

See I think that's the squeal sound I hear when the starter disengages. I think this little ring has just gotten spun by the flexplate.
I can't believe this little ring should be able to come away from the nose of the starter that much. I've already got a .060 shim under the starter and this is the thickest shim I've ever used on a Chevy motor.
I just hate to shim it too much and break a tooth on the flexplate. It's enough of a pain to change a flexplate when it's just a bare chassis let alone doing it all from underneath now that the cab is on. Ha Ha !!!   

[thirsty]

If you have already got shims in it and are worried about shimming too much maybe that bushing is the cause of all the noise. I noticed that mine spins easily. Do you think that yours is worn and maybe just rubbing on the shaft in a bad way? If you lubed it and the noise went away that would tell you that the bushing is the problem. Also if that other starter that you had in the picture is any good I would throw that one on to see what it does. As far as shimming starters, over the years I have rarely ever had to shim one. I usually just try them first and shim them if necessary (I know kinda shade tree technique but they always usually just work).
If that is the same starter that you had before and you just changed the flexplate I would think that the flexplate is the real problem.
I am still not 100% sure about the function of that small bushing. Hopefully somebody here can fill us in on that. My dad was one of those guys that rebuilt starters instead of buying new, I wish that I would have learned that from him. I still got his small lathe for doing it and some parts left just never tried it. Now that I think of it I have never purchased a small block starter in my life.

Good luck with it and keep us posted to what you find, I'm curious to find out what the problem is.

[bd]

That little "ring" is a retainer that cages the snap-ring that, in turn, holds the drive on the armature and controls forward travel.  It shouldn't ride that far away from the starter nose.  You need to check:  1) the end-play on the armature (there shouldn't be any more than about 1/16", 2) the "ring" should spin easily, but not move forward or backward along the length of the shaft (the "ring" snaps tightly over a 1/8" thick "C-clip" to retain it around the shaft - make sure the C-clip is there!), 3) check the side-to-side play of the shaft in the nose bushing (should be negligible - can't feel any).  Take a look at these things and report back.   

[firefighter]

Thanks for all your thoughts guys.

I went to the local Car Quest and purchased a new (remanned) starter after work. The loose ring seemed to not come out from the nose so far. I was very optimistic........ that is, until I got the new starter in with no shims and saw the little ring was right up against the flexplate. What the heck ?
I checked the clearance between the armature shaft and the teeth of the flexplate and there is supposed to be a 1/8" gap there. It was tight so I knew I needed to shim it.
I put the same .060 shim in that I had in with the last starter and started it up.
It was better than last night but still had a little squeal as the starter disengaged. I added another .015 shim and it was better yet, but still just a hint of a squeal as the motor started.
I added yet another .015 shim and the squeal is gone. Yippee !!!! It now starts with no other noise.

The thing is, I definitely have more than an 1/8" gap like they want you to achieve, but I'm not super worried about that. I don't feel it's too excessive. I have a total of .090 worth of shims. That is very unusual in my book.

This all started after I changed to a new flexplate. This new plate must be just a bit bigger in diameter than the last one. I'm guessing it may wear down over the years as the starter gear engages with it.

All in all, I think this problem has been solved. I had nightmares about the problem being in the flexplate and that I would have to split the motor and tranny to change the flexplate again. I did not want to do that!!!!!
I will sleep better tonight.

Thanks again guys. I appreciate you helping me out in my times of need.

[beastie_3]

How far beyond the 1/8" is it? the problem you cold run into is less tooth contact on both the starter and flywheel, it can lead to broken teeth.

[firefighter]

How far beyond the 1/8" is it? the problem you cold run into is less tooth contact on both the starter and flywheel, it can lead to broken teeth.

I'll have to get a drill bit and see just how wide the gap is.
I understand exactly what you mean about the tooth contact.
The problem is, I cannot bring the starter any closer without the flexplate contacting this loose ring. If I begin having any problem at all, I'll switch over to an aftermarket starter that has no nose cone on it like these original types of starters.
All I know is that I DO NOT want to change this flexplate again. Ha Ha !!