pulling to the right....toe out how much?

[ehjorten]

Factory calls for 0 but I like a slight, about 1/8" in. toe-in.  Checking this is really easy at home!  Take something like an extendable rod of some sort (I have an 8' aluminum grade-rod that I use), or even a tape measure will work if you are methodical in how you use the tape.  Check the width between the tires at the front (highest up that you can go considering the frame and body work) and measure to a repeatable spot on the tire (take a molded-in feature on the largest part of the buldge).  Now move to the back side of the tire and measure to the same features.  You should be the same front to back or just slightly wider at the back of the tires.

Since we have a live axle there is no worry about caster or camber (it's built into the axle) and toe is completely divorced from the steering arm.  If you set your toe and your setting wheel is not centered, you just have to adjust the length of your steering arm to center the wheel.  *Be aware that there is a center point in your steering box and when your steering wheel is centered it is important that the box is also centered.

[travh123]

incorrect toe wont cause a pull... the steering wheel will be off to one side or the other while driving straight but no pull. if your brakes check out(not sticking), my guess would be like what bd said and your thrust angle is out. sometimes if the leafs fail to hold the axle in place, like if the locator pins brake, your axle will slide forward on one side and causes your truck to dog track.

just my 2 pennies

[VileZambonie]

No offense guys but I'm reading a lot of bad info here...

Measuring off of the tire is not a good way to get an alignment and I'm not quite sure why you would want an 1/8" of toe in? Your method is fine to drive down to the alignment shop after doing repairs but surely not good enough to constitute an alignment.

I'm not sure what having a live axle has to do with caster/camber. Live axle simply means it transmits powerflow. Dead axle means no powerflow. It has nothing to do with caster/camber. Caster/Camber is adjustable with eccentric balljoints. What do you mean by toe is completely divorced from the steering arm? Your toe out on turns comes directly from the steering arm geometry. The steering arm is not adjustable on these trucks. You will have an adjustable drag link for centering the steering wheel which will not effect total toe.

Incorrect toe is the fastest way to ruin your tires. Incorrect toe will absolutely cause a pull.  I'm not sure where you are getting your info on this...

The thrust angle is not adjustable on these trucks so if it is incorrect it will cause dog tracking which really has no adverse effects aside from aesthetics. The vehicle will appear to roll crooked. Incorrect Thrust angle typically means frame or suspension/axle damage.

[travh123]

just relaying what i was taught in first year curriculum, they could have taught me wrong i guess...

[VileZambonie]

Very basic generic stuff right here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoYnVcH43C0

Are you in school for Automotive?

[HAULIN IT]

Thanks Vile...You saved me allot of typing! The look on my face as I was reading through the posts had to be priceless.
To add, what ej was trying to say when he used the word "live", I think he was meaning "solid"...as in not independent, not adjustable.
To say "there is no worry" about caster & camber" I believe is a mistake. The truck still needs to have the proper (within reason) specs to have the vehicle drive properly & not wear tires. Just because it was built correctly in '70 something doesn't mean it's still in that spot today. The fastest ways to screw up the caster is to start changing springs, adding blocks & things that don't belong as an engineered kit. One thing that is bad when lifting a truck very much is the need to rotate the pinion angle to keep the front U-joint alive, thus "giving away" some of the positive caster that you need to keep the vehicle going straight...just what you need, a jolting & darting 4000lb. clunk on balloon tires!
 I've been involved on the "consulting" side of Two trucks on fixing this with good results & is really what should be done.
  The same goes with camber, a bad day of wheelin' or the fact that these parts of trucks often get swapped from one to another for "better ratio or stronger" components, the likelyhood of having one bent from a wreck is there if if your truck hasn't been wrecked...allot can happen in 30-40 years to a truck. If only they could talk! Good Luck, Lorne     

[travh123]

yes i am

[VileZambonie]

Where are you going?

[travh123]

viu on vancouver island, they have a really good program

[pholliday1]

Amen to bent swapped in axles ,just realized my Dana 60 is bent ,passenger side wheel base is 1 1/4 more narrower than driver side so that kinda stuff does happen.

[ehjorten]

Sorry Vile...a "Live Axle" is synonymous with solid axle.  It isn't just about powerflow.  A live axle is a driven solid axle.  And yes...I meant drag-link not steering arm.  I guess I was assuming that we weren't talking about axle swaps and the like.  I have adjusted my toe on my vehicles by measuring between the tires all my life and my dad and my uncle all their lives.  Never had a problem!  You do have to be methodical and choose your measuring points carefully.  How does a shop do it?...oh...on the older systems they didn't use hub mounted alignment...they used pads under the tire.

I'm not sure what having a live axle has to do with caster/camber. Live axle simply means it transmits powerflow. Dead axle means no powerflow.

[frotosride]

I'm about to buy a 4' lift.. springs all the way around (never liked blocks), extended brake lines, t-case drop, front sway bar drop and disconnect and I'm not sure what all else came with it but I want to get this fixed before I make the problem worse with a lift. I haven't gotten time to take it t a good alignment shop yet thanks to the amazing hours given to me the the USN...24/7.... but at least I loke what I do. I'm planning on a rough country lift all brand new. Plus the swatbar disconnect/ drop from ORD.

[VileZambonie]

Sorry Vile...a "Live Axle" is synonymous with solid axle.  It isn't just about powerflow.  A live axle is a driven solid axle.  And yes...I meant drag-link not steering arm.  I guess I was assuming that we weren't talking about axle swaps and the like.  I have adjusted my toe on my vehicles by measuring between the tires all my life and my dad and my uncle all their lives.  Never had a problem!  You do have to be methodical and choose your measuring points carefully.  How does a shop do it?...oh...on the older systems they didn't use hub mounted alignment...they used pads under the tire.

I'm not sure what having a live axle has to do with caster/camber. Live axle simply means it transmits powerflow. Dead axle means no powerflow.

Well you certainly are entitled to your own beliefs...

Old alignment measurements were take with a camber caster spirit gauge, turn plates, a tire scriber ,a toe gauge & alignment gauge.

[VileZambonie]

viu on vancouver island, they have a really good program

That's great! Good for you

[Jason S]

quote author=frotosride link=topic=25415.msg212789#msg212789 date=1360617358]
I'm about to buy a 4' lift..

  4-feet is an amazing amount of lift, I hope you mean 4-inch... 

springs all the way around (never liked blocks), extended brake lines, t-case drop, front sway bar drop and disconnect and I'm not sure what all else came with it but I want to get this fixed before I make the problem worse with a lift.

  Springs are the way to go.  If you are going 4-inches, then extended brake lines would help (especially with axle drop), the sway bar drop should not be necessary and the t-case drop can be helpful but also shouldn't be necessary. However, you may want to get the drop pitman arm  and raised steering arm, as long as it is a 4-inch lift (or even 6-inch).   

I haven't gotten time to take it t a good alignment shop yet thanks to the amazing hours given to me the the USN...24/7.... but at least I loke what I do.

  Thank you for your service to our country.  I really do mean that.

I'm planning on a rough country lift all brand new. Plus the swatbar disconnect/ drop from ORD.

  It is my belief that most all of the aftermarket lift kits anymore are pretty well engineered. The companies have had 40 years to work on them...  As for the disconnect, if you do have a 4-inch lift, then that may not be necessary unless you are doing some pretty serious off-roading.